So, 2 or 4 doors, but would probably prefer 4. Something compact so it's easier to handle for a young driver. Automatic definitely. Budget of around $16k or so.
I've seen the outgoing Mazda3 model, 5 door hatch, Touring, 6 speed auto (beats a CVT) for only a tad more than that, brand new, full warranty.
The C30 treated me very well - extremely reliable, very comfortable, and safe. It isn't a bad car for a young driver because it is a Volvo and is very safe, but they just aren't a good value used.
Up here in Seattle, the CC is a terrible value used it seems. As you know, I got a very cheap lease and the sale price amounted to ~$23,9 on an MSRP of $33k. It is a bit mature for a young driver, but it is built like a tank and has enough power to be fun.
I think a big car is a good idea for a young driver, so I think a Jetta Sportwagen even would be a great idea. It isn't attractive to a teen, but it'll be safe.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
Thanks for all the suggestions - I drove the Veloster all around last night, running kids around to sports and such, and thought it was not bad at all. So I'm not as hot on everything as yesterday, but the seed has certainly been planted.
It's sort of a game really - IF (a big if) I could get good value out of the Hyundai, what could I get for the same, or even cheaper? The third driver in the family just provides another avenue for turning cars. : )
The Elantra is indeed a good idea - figure a Hyundai dealer would step up on the trade, and the Elantra doesn't have the "sports" suspension and has a traditional automatic (the Veloster has a horrible DCT). Not sure if we'd do another Hyundai right now.
Outgoing Mazda3 is a great suggestion - I was looking at listings for used ones, but with discounts, a new one could probably be a better deal.
Still intrigued with a Civic, but some of that is nostalgic, since that was essentially my first car ('90 Si with 108 hp!). "They don't make 'em like they used to!" : )
Wife and I both really like VW products - so all the models are pretty much fair game.
We may go out looking a bit tomorrow - just to get a feel for what's out there. That is, if we can brave our first snow of the year here in Denver (it's all melted already).
We may go out looking a bit tomorrow - just to get a feel for what's out there. That is, if we can brave our first snow of the year here in Denver (it's all melted already).
When did a little snow or cold weather stop you? Didn't you buy both your BMW's earlier this year in the exact same type of weather?
Snowing pretty good down here in Douglas County at the moment ... but not sticking to either roads or grass.
I am gonna ask this here because I have lurked here for a long time but never posted. Currently I drive an 07 Honda Civic Hybrid and the car is boring me to tears. I have over 100K miles on it and am looking to move on. I am searching for used luxury sedans less than $10K, so I know I will be looking at mostly higher mileage vehicles. I am open to anything from Infiniti to Volvo. I need a useable back seat, something that is semi reliable as this will be my daily commute vehicle, automatic, and something more entertaining than my hybrid. I am considering BMW 3/5/7, Benz C/E, VW Passat 6 cyl, Audi A4...not CVT, Infiniti G35/G37, Acura TL, possibly TSX..or open to suggestions. What would you all recommend and what would you absolutely stay away from/ Since it's mostly higher mileage I am thinking to stay away from Turbo's, but I could be convinced otherwise. Thanks...
$10k is gonna be a bit tough to get into a luxury nameplate that will be suitable for a daily driver.
Maybe an older Lexus ES? Acura TL? TSX came out in '04 so maybe one with high miles.
I'd consider something like an older Mazda6. Good car but they do tend to depreciate a lot. V6, leather.... Maybe an accord or maxima? All good cars that are available with the luxury trappings.
Acura or Infiniti the rest will most likely eat you alive in maintenance and repairs at higher miles.
I agree, strongly. Not trying to put you down here, not at all. But if you can't afford to pay more than 10k for your daily driver, you absolutely cannot afford to maintain an older, high mileage Mercedes or BMW.
Thanks for the info....you aren't putting me down. I actually can afford a new luxury car and could afford the maintenance on a high mileage one, but I am cheap and prefer not to have a new car payment or put my mechanics kids through college. i see lots of the german cars on craigslist under $10k, but i agree they are mostly money pits. i did some looking and i found a lot of g37's with about 100k miles or less in the $10k range. yes maybe a maxima, v6 mazda 6, acura tl, tsx, those are possible as well.
My choice would be an Infiniti. I actually made that choice once before already, although I was at a $20k pricepoint. I chose the Inifiniti specifically for the reliability aspect. It never let me down in that regard, but the horrible gas mileage did bug me. Mine was a G35x. so the AWD didn't help.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Where you at? I'm in northern Okla with wife's car of 2005 Deville with 66,000 miles. Base Deville but with most options (no sunroof), everything works, and is in very good shape. It's less than $10k.
My old boss has a first generation G approaching 200k. I can't believe how it's held up. He said the passenger window and gas gauge are dead but otherwise all systems go.
A $10k 3 Series might not be a bad choice, but it would be contingent on finding the right car with a decent service history. You also need to have access to a good dealer or indie shop that won't try to screw you every time you come in the door. Fortunately I know an excellent dealer AND a great indie shop, and as a result I can keep my BMWs running for a relatively low cost
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
As a Civic owner, I am very underwhelmed with the '12 and '13 Civics, actually think the Elantra is more bang for the buck and definitely more fun to throw around on the twisties. Was just at the bank and saw a new '14 Kia Forte and it's a nice looking vehicle, just as nice as the Elantra and I think it will sell well. Stopped by Acura yesterday morning and fell in love with the new ILX actually, beautiful interior layout and outside has no resemblance to the Civic. Took a few pics of my '06 right behind it and they do look different. Will have to take a test drive soon and bet I could get a cpo unit once I am ready to purchase in a few years as a new one will be a bit pricey for me. I think it has gone right to the top of my short list right now and since I could use regular in it, it is a real possibility for my next ride! I would extremely happy to own one of them as it's the perfect size for me and my side of the garage. If I played my cards right, maybe I could swing a new base model with the auto tranny at that time but a cpo unit might work also.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Yeah, I know someone who has a long commute and a ~2003 or 2004 G35. I asked him how he liked it, and he said it will outrun any car he's owned and the only problem he can remember having is that he had to replace the CD player. 200,000+ miles on it. One of those may be a good bet if it's been well taken care of and hasn't been beat all to heck.
Well guys (& gal), it has been a great run for me as an official Chronic Car Buyer from 2007 through 2013. I'm going to officially ask the board to put my membership on hold. My wife and I have been doing some very serious financial soul searching lately & like so many people are looking for ways to cut back. We are both employed very securely, are healthy, and our 3 amazing children are happy and healthy. We've got a roof over our heads & there's always plenty of food on the table. So nothing major happened, we are just looking for ways to save more & spend less. While looking over our expenses, it hit me. When the lease is up on my BMW next September, why don't I replace it with something cheap that I LOVE and drives great? Something like... My Prelude.
Turning in my BMW takes $572 per month "off the books." Once that happens, I will only have about 18 months left to pay off her Pilot. So if I can go 18 months to 2 years more driving my Prelude, it would help, a lot. Now I'll probably have to dump some money into my Prelude to elevate it from 1x per week car to daily driver status.
I'd have to buy a set of winter tires & wheels (under $1000 from tire rack). In about 10,000 miles, I'm going to have to have the timing belt replaced again (timing belt, tensioner, water pump, balance shaft seals), plus full synthetic oil changes every 3K - 4K miles.
Now I'm going to have someone "who knows" tell me "the 411" on the Prelude's suspension & brakes. The shocks are still original @ 150K miles.
The only "X factor" is my clutch which I replaced @ 52K miles. I replaced it with an aftermarket clutch that still feels strong and doesn't slip one bit with almost 100K on it. If the clutch needs to be replaced, it is a $2,000 job (The ATTS unit has to be removed & re-installed in order for the clutch to be replaced).
- OR -
Do I just lease something super cheap until the Pilot is Paid off?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Totally agree or...buy a used econobox like my '06 Civic which has been an amazingly good vehicle. Sure a few things have gone wrong and I've had a few TSB's done but overall, it always starts and has never stranded me. Get an slushbox so the wife can drive it and y'all are good to go. Spend a good $10k and get something like I have and don't look back. Forget the lease until the Pilot is paid off and save, save, save. Soon y'all will have college to think about and bar and bat mitzvah's, things like that which require $. You've done the cool car thing already but now it might be time to put that on the back burner until the kids are gone and then revisit this area. I know it's not what most in here want to hear but sometimes being logical and more financially responsive can pay off big returns later on in life when you will have more time to enjoy your passion of a nice European vehicle!
Just some food for thought. As a side note, stopped by the Acura dealer on the way to work yesterday and fell in love with the ILX. It is now on the top of my short list and come 2016 or 2017, plan to look at either a new base model or possibly a cpo unit as I'd get the lux I want in my next vehicle and the same size I have now with my Civic...a win/win for me actually. And I'll bet with my trade and about $20k, I could find a nice recent ILX unit. This is a very workable plan I am thinking.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I understand this is an automotive forum, so you're asking in the right place... then again, maybe not... this being CCBA & all.
However.
Let me suggest you ignore the car thing for now. It's not that big a deal, and you plan to ride out the lease on the BMW anyway, as I think you should.
Going from the leased $$$$ car to a 20-year-old jalopy strikes me as too extreme, and will probably lead to a change of plans shortly thereafter. For one thing, the Foreplay will have issues. Great car, I know, but stuff happens at that age. A grownup with a real job should not rely on it as a daily driver, at least not without backup.
The BMW, even at $500/mo + insurance + incidentals is not going to make a big difference to a middle-class couple in CT with two solid jobs and incomes. What you need is a solid financial plan. Which you're not going to get here.
The car stuff is an incidental; not unimportant, but no solution to anything. Of course, you understand it well, and it's fun, so that's where you're doing a thorough analysis... like the drunk looking for his keys under the street lamp.
Given the sums at stake here -- we all need ~ ten annual salaries saved to retire, give or take a factor of two -- when you start talking about how long a clutch lasts, you're not looking at the big picture.
I agree. By the time you're ready, there will be a slew of fun-to-drive cheap leases around for you to pick from. It may not be a BMW, but it'll be something you can enjoy and probably half the price or less of what you pay for your 3er right now and it'll come with some level of predictability in terms of maintenance and behavior.
The Prelude is a great car, but between it being rear wheel drive and only 2 doors plus all the maintenance it COULD need, seems like a recipe for you becoming unhappy with it. For a car that you love so much it would be unfortunate to change your view of it because it cannot handle daily driver duty to the extent you need it.
My wife and I are in a similar position sans the children aspect. We are both employed in stable jobs with room for growth, but we are also wanting to save for a house and all of the things in the future that others our age tend to forget. Perhaps our reasoning for that thinking is that I already have gone through unemployment once (albeit short) since we've been together. We base our monthly expenses on roughly half what we bring in each month with the rest going to savings. As steine says below, the cars are a very very very small part of our monthly expenses - for us what is more important is predictability as far as the car goes (e.g. avoiding surprise repair bills) and reigning in the spending everywhere else. What we do isn't necessarily feasible for most, but it works for us right now and is helping us build our nest egg.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
If the Prelude has esc,abs and a full set of air bags (front side rear), than that car makes sense. Your family responsibilities demand that you surround yourself with the most current and complete safety equipment on the market. Go as cheap as you want but don't ignore protecting you and your family out there in Dangerland.
Sandy, I agree about the ILX> it has a lot to offer in a nice package. As long as you are not obsessed with HP (the people that worry a 335 BMW is just too slow, maybe you need a 550?) at a reasonable price for what you get. From everything you have said about your car fantasies, it sounds like a perfect compromise.
Bradd, I am with the others that the Prelude is not a smart idea for only car duty. real good chance that giving it that heavy use will lead to issues. Plus, I thought you want to keep it forever, and using it for DD commuting like that is not going to help the cause.
But I understand your thoughts about conserving. Heck, I am the guy that sold my car and did not buy a replacement! Of course, I commute across the hall. Yet, I digress...
I would say you should (of course!) keep the BMW until the end, and enjoy the heck out of it. Then either get a cheap lease on a basic car (a VW? many options) for the "grind" duty, or find a used alternative and just keep it for as long as possible to run into the ground. Either way, keep the Prelude in nice day use.
I agree with Mathias about the car lease being a minor part of your economic situation. I just refinanced my mortage to a 10-year term, and when all variables are taken into account, it is going to save me a whopping $90-$100 per month over the next 10 years (it's a relatively small mortgage). Now, $10K is nothing to sneeze at, and doing it was sort of free... but, we put $3500-$4000 per month on our credit card each month.. It gets paid off monthly, but it isn't hard to see where the opportunity to cut our spending lies..
But, just evaluating any monthly expense, and deciding how important it is to you is a great exercise in financial discipline, and if you can extrapolate that to the rest of your budget, you can make real inroads into a more financially secure life.
And.. for Mathias: 10 times your salary for retirement? I'd suggest more like 20 X.. You must have a government pension! ;-)
>> And.. for Mathias: 10 times your salary for retirement? I'd suggest more like 20 X.. You must have a government pension!
(i) note the "give or take a factor of 2" i put in there... it really depends on your lifestyle more than what you make.
(ii) in order to save the 10x, at least if you start your career kinda late, as I did, you need to put such a large chunk away every year that the effective salary you live on is a heck of a lot smaller than what the tax statements say.
Once you save half your paycheck, it starts converging No, I haven't managed THAT.
Just wait ten, fifteen years, and see how many people quit working and find they can't afford their houses anymore. I don't think there will be a true housing recovery because of this dynamic. Call me Mr. Sunshine. And off-topic. Buy hey, it's CCBA, right?
When will Subaru offer zero percent financing on the '14 Outback? I wants to buy one, but they seem to be stuck on 0.9... the '13s were 0 percent for some months... This may push my next punch into 2014.
I feel like you have my kitchen bugged and listened into the conversations my wife and I were having the past few months.....I just bought my 335 lease out (get to that in a minute).
We budget very well (At least we think we do), and sometimes you just look at your expenses and say, "do I really want to spend my money on that[fill in the blank]?". And its good to challenge the way you think. Comparing it to our property investments we look at cash flow vs. appreciation (or a combo of the two) to evaluate what we're going to do. Unfortunately with autos, appreciation just isn't in the cards....
So I was debating returning, selling, trading in my lightly driven, fully loaded, 335 for something a bit less. Fr the same reasons, just got tired of paying that $6XX each month for 3 years. Someone mentioned the Acura ILX, and that was one of my choices, but I know I'll miss my 335(that I'll now tune to 400hp!). My wife then says to me, "If you let your car go, where could you find a car similar to the one you have now for $30k?" (Roughly my lease buy out). I replied....no where. So I negotiated my buy out and purchased my vehicle with all the CPO stuff at 1.9%, roughly $3-4k under my vehicle searches within a 200 mile radius of my zip for similar (not even identical) cars. I know from past posts your not in the same situation as me mileage wise, but the thinking (my wife's) helped through the process of looking at all the options.
My advise for what it's worth is to "buy" a vehicle or lease and "buy" the vehicle out, but something that you'd be willing to drive for say 8-10 years. Since your high mileage will always put you in a situation where leasing doesn't make sense, to have equity, or be even on a lease turn in. Why do I say this? From experience. I went the whole old car I really loved route....and that lasted a few weeks until my teeth were rattling while I was driving, or until you realize the new tech and safety features in older cars just isn't there, or your AC isn't that cold on a 100 degree day, or you pull up to the gas station and the car you used to own is on the opposite pump....and you start sobbing like a baby because you're miscible driving your favorite 'bucket'.....(do you get my point?).
You're on CCBA for a reason, just because you give your lease up, doesn't mean your not going to troll the board.....you work hard, buy the things you like in life, it's too short.
And if you want some more sensible advice...look elsewhere in your budget to get that cash flow back, ask yourself what payment would you be happy making to drive what you actually like, you may be surprised that its a hundred or a few hundred $$$ to get there, and honestly that's not difficult to trim from a budget. Look at things....like food! I'm serious about that! Id rather eat less than drive a crap car! I didn't realize how much junk we were eating until we looked into that and reduced the frequency we eat out and in general the processed food....wife went out and bought a NutraBullet for $80 and we're juicing our breakfast and feeling great, while we're saving money!
I agree with your predictions, but I don't think we will have to wait that long. When all those baby boomers put their houses on the market because they can no longer afford them, it will really hurt the market.
This is the key folks, the best thing to do when purchasing a vehicle, keep it till the wheels fall off. From my experience, it's been the most economical way to own a nice vehicle. And in this time frame, vehicles are already towards the end of their 2nd life cycle as some companies now go six years instead of the old five years to bring out a completely new model. With just over 45.5k on my present vehicle, my plan is to purchase either in 2016 or 2017 either a new or cpo'd used vehicle and concentrating on the 180" lux criteria, something like a Acura ILX which fits perfectly. All I need to decide if I really want a vehicle that someone else has broken in and will the savings make this a worthwhile venture as some vehicles do not pay to buy used...not sure if this is one of them. A Verano would also fit the bill here but being a GM product, the cpo'd unit might just make sense since domestics don't seem to hold their value as much as the foreign makes do. And if going the used route, that 8 to 10 time frame would have to be tweaked depending on mileage and condition...I've been the only owner of my '06 Civic so I know it has been well taken care of and has had the proper maintenance but others may not be so good with this stuff.
Luckily I do not have to think about this for awhile as the vehicles I want will probably be on their next generational cycle by then. One thing, if I do go the cpo route, I will not purchase a vehicle with more than 10k/year on it and the interior will need to be in somewhat great condition for me to even consider it. Obviously the creme de la creme vehicles will be pricier but I am willing to pay a bit more for what I want, the lower miled up/nicer interior vehicles, if in fact I do not purchase a new one. Have bought a few used in the past and of the 3, 1 was meh while the others were above average but there were still a few issues...I enjoyed the new vehicles more but there is nothing like new, that new smell and the mileage in the teens, those things that make one super happy. But one could get a more lux and better equipped vehicle going the cpo route and this is where the hard choices, at least in my case, will have to be made. Time will tell!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
When all those baby boomers put their houses on the market because they can no longer afford them, it will really hurt the market.
I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not at all certain your predictions will come true. I am of an age (62) where many of my friends and former coworkers have retired. Some of them stayed put in houses that were paid for. Some sold their houses here and moved back to where they were born and raised, to be around family (mostly elderly parents). But the largest block have sold out here and moved to be closer to their kids / grandkids.
My personal observations are undoubtedly influenced by the fact that I am in Houston, and in the oil business. Houston has (for most of my working life) seen a steady influx of people from other parts of this country, and the world, attracted here by jobs in the oil industry. Many of those people (the majority in my experience) do not wish to remain here after they’re no longer working. But the steady influx of new workers keeps the housing market fairly stable.
I do believe, overall, that we as a society (America) have over-emphasized home ownership. And some of the blame for that can be attributed to a misguided tax policy. But that veers too close to politics
There are quite a few people here in the forums who are up in my age bracket. Let me ask you this: How many of your friends have you lost to “retire and move closer to the grandkids” ?
We have lost a few as I am also in this situation. 58 and retired though I did go back to work as an independent contractor this year. We made sure to pay our house off while I was still working and getting a good paycheck and it's now ours and we are staying until my one kid finishes her education. We'll go where she goes and either sell or rent this house out depending on the circumstances. The housing market is coming back here in South Florida so it may behoove us to keep it and rent it out when the time comes and just rent in our new location. I'd personally love to leave the house to our 3 children to do with what they may but that might not be possible as they may prefer the cash more.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I understand that everyone has their own unique circumstances, but I am talking about the overall national trending. With the average savings being so low, (couple of thousand bucks) I just don't see how a lot of these folks are going to be very comfortable in their retirement.
Home "ownership" is overrated anyway. I'd rather have a nice car, a little money in the bank, and enjoy life while I am still able. But maybe that's me speaking as a single person, in a market where few singles can afford detached houses without luck or help from mommy and daddy (I mean, bootstrapping, yeah, that's it). I know families with kids where the parents are my age - they seem to be owned by their house, and if a job loss or catastrophe hits , heaven help them.
My lease is up in 14 months, but that could end 4 months or so sooner if they do a pull forward. Still don't know what I want to do, cash flow will determine my next move. I'll either lease again or buy an older car.
Sandy - what you say makes sense (& cents), but there is NO WAY I would find a car like yours, in impeccable shape, with 45K miles for $10K. I don't have that liquid anyway, so whatever I decide is going to be financed. I try not to think too hard about bar & bat mitzvahs, college, etc... It is quite scary. Thanks as always for your opinion.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I've got issues with a few things you've said: first off, my Prelude is a 2001 that I bought new as a leftover in April of 2002. So technically it is only 11 years old & it's far from a jalopy;). Who are you calling a grown up? (Just Kidding). You are right that it is a "kid's car." I bought it when I was 26.
I hear what you are saying. It's actually not the $572 per month plus insurance & property taxes that make the big difference. It is our rather large mortgage payment and the fact that a lesser car payment would give us some temporary breathing room. Anyway I slice it, we'll push through & make it!
Thank-you for taking the time to respond. You've been around here a long time & I respect your what you have to say.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
A vote for a cheap lease from my friend 28firefighter who is closer to me in age (I'm 37). I applaud your savings efforts & I'm quite sure you'll retire LONG before me;)
Yes the Prelude is only 2 doors, but it is FWD, not rear wheel drive. Point taken about the maintenance/repairs that it could need. Even if I do what I think is necessary preventative-wise, something big could arise on a car with over 150,000 miles. Honda or not.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The Prelude has dual air bags & abs. No skid control, no side air bags... Safety is a concern, but it is just me in the car 95% of the time. My boys are old enough to sit in "high back booster" seats that just use the regular seat belt. Whenever we go somewhere just the 3 of us (or me with 1 of them), they beg me to take the Prelude.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Thanks stickguy! Your vote counts;). I'm most definitely going to keep the BMW until the lease is up & enjoy the daylights out of it. The other day driving home I was driving with an M3 & A5. Keeping up for sure, but once the traffic let up they would have been long gone.
I do want to keep it & eventually tech my sons & daughter how to drive stick on it! It is a great car & I do LOVE it!
My problem with used is that good, even decent used cars are expensive these days.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I hear what you are saying about buying & keeping for 10 years. Our Pilot is on the 5/10 plan. Finance for 5 years, drive it for 10. The only thing I don't like about leasing, then buying out at the end if the lease is that now instead of 5 years, I'm going to theoretically be financing the car for a longer term which I don't want to do.
I hear you about the "old car thing." My Prelude still drives great for an 11 year old car w/ 150K miles, but for commuting can't touch my 328xi. The BMW has an automatic, heated seats, heated steering wheel, leather, & rides a whole helluva lot better.
Thanks for your $.02. I appreciate it.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I am seeing better every day now though reading has not come back 100% yet. Just wear my sunglasses and I am out the door now and seeing it all. I will probably have to go get my license corrected after the doctor makes sure I can read the eye chart correctly at the DMV. Am truly thrilled that I did do the surgery even though I made the decision very quickly, something I never do but to sit and argue every position back and forth would've driven me crazy. I am not an impulsive person at all but in this case I was ans within a matter of a week, I decided on surgery and then moved it up a week and am so glad I did. I truly thank G-d up above for the gift of renewed sight after being almost blind in one eye for most of my life!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
My dad likes to say the most common lie is "I thought" -- and sure enough, "I thought" that the Prelude died out in the 90s.
That does make a difference, though I doubt you're ready to wear it out in the daily commute. And I hear you about the "rather large mortgage payment" -- a friend of mine just took 18 months or so to sell his place near Stamford on a few acres of land... houses in MI are peanuts by comparison.
It's OK Mathias. If its not a car that you are "in to,". You wouldn't know when Honda killed it off. It was my daily driver for its 1st 9 years, but I am not sure I'm not ready to wear it out.
I live in a very modest, 1432 square foot ranch, so I'm not living in some gigantic house completely outside my means.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Hardly on the retirement front. The Mrs. will make sure the vast majority of that ends up a downpayment on a house (or more specifically, away from the car fund).
My bad on the Prelude. I was 99% sure it was RWD. Even still, unless you're looking for a reason to finish off the Prelude, I'd find something else to mile up.
Just my naive 26 year old $.02.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
Ah 26, remember it well as I had just started my career as a city letter carrier and was preparing to get married. I was so naive about life and what I wanted out of it and there I was driving a '76 Isuzu Opel, a blue 2 door vehicle from hell! It was the 1st year that it wasn't a German vehicle and I remember the a/c blowing up every few months...what an awful vehicle! It left me stranded a few times when I first started my new career and within a month of starting work, I dumped it for something more reliable. Man, life has sure gone quick these past 30 something years with mostly ups than downs! A few regrets maybe but not many and maybe a vehicle...or two that I should not or should have bought. But I did hit a domestic and the 3 big foreign brands so I feel like I've spread my automotive budget fairly...next might, or might not be the Koreans but time will tell. That Acura is looking better and better!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
If the answer is yes, then having 1 older vehicle is a risky proposition. Case in point: my wife walks out of the house yesterday to head to her hockey game up north. She come scurrying back in the house about 3 mins later, tells me something is wrong with the volvo, grabs her van keys, and bolts back out.
Now, mind you, this is a car with a mere 55k miles, but it is over 15 years old, so things WILL go wrong. Granted, if she missed a hockey game, its not the end of the world, but if that happens during the week, it is far better for us that we have other vehicles to serve as backup.
My vote would be something like a $169 lease special.
BTW, for those curious, the e-brake pads on one side of the volvo broke and jammed up the wheel. Took me all of about 20 minutes to get her operational again.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
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I've seen the outgoing Mazda3 model, 5 door hatch, Touring, 6 speed auto (beats a CVT) for only a tad more than that, brand new, full warranty.
Get one now while they're on clearance sale.
Up here in Seattle, the CC is a terrible value used it seems. As you know, I got a very cheap lease and the sale price amounted to ~$23,9 on an MSRP of $33k. It is a bit mature for a young driver, but it is built like a tank and has enough power to be fun.
I think a big car is a good idea for a young driver, so I think a Jetta Sportwagen even would be a great idea. It isn't attractive to a teen, but it'll be safe.
It's sort of a game really - IF (a big if) I could get good value out of the Hyundai, what could I get for the same, or even cheaper? The third driver in the family just provides another avenue for turning cars. : )
The Elantra is indeed a good idea - figure a Hyundai dealer would step up on the trade, and the Elantra doesn't have the "sports" suspension and has a traditional automatic (the Veloster has a horrible DCT). Not sure if we'd do another Hyundai right now.
Outgoing Mazda3 is a great suggestion - I was looking at listings for used ones, but with discounts, a new one could probably be a better deal.
Still intrigued with a Civic, but some of that is nostalgic, since that was essentially my first car ('90 Si with 108 hp!). "They don't make 'em like they used to!" : )
Wife and I both really like VW products - so all the models are pretty much fair game.
We may go out looking a bit tomorrow - just to get a feel for what's out there. That is, if we can brave our first snow of the year here in Denver (it's all melted already).
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
When did a little snow or cold weather stop you? Didn't you buy both your BMW's earlier this year in the exact same type of weather?
Snowing pretty good down here in Douglas County at the moment ... but not sticking to either roads or grass.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Maybe an older Lexus ES? Acura TL? TSX came out in '04 so maybe one with high miles.
I'd consider something like an older Mazda6. Good car but they do tend to depreciate a lot. V6, leather.... Maybe an accord or maxima? All good cars that are available with the luxury trappings.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I agree, strongly. Not trying to put you down here, not at all. But if you can't afford to pay more than 10k for your daily driver, you absolutely cannot afford to maintain an older, high mileage Mercedes or BMW.
Maximas are nice. So are Avalons.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Turning in my BMW takes $572 per month "off the books." Once that happens, I will only have about 18 months left to pay off her Pilot. So if I can go 18 months to 2 years more driving my Prelude, it would help, a lot. Now I'll probably have to dump some money into my Prelude to elevate it from 1x per week car to daily driver status.
I'd have to buy a set of winter tires & wheels (under $1000 from tire rack). In about 10,000 miles, I'm going to have to have the timing belt replaced again (timing belt, tensioner, water pump, balance shaft seals), plus full synthetic oil changes every 3K - 4K miles.
Now I'm going to have someone "who knows" tell me "the 411" on the Prelude's suspension & brakes. The shocks are still original @ 150K miles.
The only "X factor" is my clutch which I replaced @ 52K miles. I replaced it with an aftermarket clutch that still feels strong and doesn't slip one bit with almost 100K on it. If the clutch needs to be replaced, it is a $2,000 job (The ATTS unit has to be removed & re-installed in order for the clutch to be replaced).
- OR -
Do I just lease something super cheap until the Pilot is Paid off?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
This.... it will be cheaper than getting your Prelude ready for daily driver duty, then maintaining at that level...
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Just some food for thought. As a side note, stopped by the Acura dealer on the way to work yesterday and fell in love with the ILX. It is now on the top of my short list and come 2016 or 2017, plan to look at either a new base model or possibly a cpo unit as I'd get the lux I want in my next vehicle and the same size I have now with my Civic...a win/win for me actually. And I'll bet with my trade and about $20k, I could find a nice recent ILX unit. This is a very workable plan I am thinking.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
However.
Let me suggest you ignore the car thing for now. It's not that big a deal, and you plan to ride out the lease on the BMW anyway, as I think you should.
Going from the leased $$$$ car to a 20-year-old jalopy strikes me as too extreme, and will probably lead to a change of plans shortly thereafter. For one thing, the Foreplay will have issues. Great car, I know, but stuff happens at that age. A grownup with a real job should not rely on it as a daily driver, at least not without backup.
The BMW, even at $500/mo + insurance + incidentals is not going to make a big difference to a middle-class couple in CT with two solid jobs and incomes. What you need is a solid financial plan. Which you're not going to get here.
The car stuff is an incidental; not unimportant, but no solution to anything. Of course, you understand it well, and it's fun, so that's where you're doing a thorough analysis... like the drunk looking for his keys under the street lamp.
Given the sums at stake here -- we all need ~ ten annual salaries saved to retire, give or take a factor of two -- when you start talking about how long a clutch lasts, you're not looking at the big picture.
I'm off my soapbox now.
Cheers -Mathias
The Prelude is a great car, but between it being rear wheel drive and only 2 doors plus all the maintenance it COULD need, seems like a recipe for you becoming unhappy with it. For a car that you love so much it would be unfortunate to change your view of it because it cannot handle daily driver duty to the extent you need it.
My wife and I are in a similar position sans the children aspect. We are both employed in stable jobs with room for growth, but we are also wanting to save for a house and all of the things in the future that others our age tend to forget. Perhaps our reasoning for that thinking is that I already have gone through unemployment once (albeit short) since we've been together. We base our monthly expenses on roughly half what we bring in each month with the rest going to savings. As steine says below, the cars are a very very very small part of our monthly expenses - for us what is more important is predictability as far as the car goes (e.g. avoiding surprise repair bills) and reigning in the spending everywhere else. What we do isn't necessarily feasible for most, but it works for us right now and is helping us build our nest egg.
Sandy, I agree about the ILX> it has a lot to offer in a nice package. As long as you are not obsessed with HP (the people that worry a 335 BMW is just too slow, maybe you need a 550?) at a reasonable price for what you get. From everything you have said about your car fantasies, it sounds like a perfect compromise.
Bradd, I am with the others that the Prelude is not a smart idea for only car duty. real good chance that giving it that heavy use will lead to issues. Plus, I thought you want to keep it forever, and using it for DD commuting like that is not going to help the cause.
But I understand your thoughts about conserving. Heck, I am the guy that sold my car and did not buy a replacement! Of course, I commute across the hall. Yet, I digress...
I would say you should (of course!) keep the BMW until the end, and enjoy the heck out of it. Then either get a cheap lease on a basic car (a VW? many options) for the "grind" duty, or find a used alternative and just keep it for as long as possible to run into the ground. Either way, keep the Prelude in nice day use.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I just refinanced my mortage to a 10-year term, and when all variables are taken into account, it is going to save me a whopping $90-$100 per month over the next 10 years (it's a relatively small mortgage). Now, $10K is nothing to sneeze at, and doing it was sort of free... but, we put $3500-$4000 per month on our credit card each month.. It gets paid off monthly, but it isn't hard to see where the opportunity to cut our spending lies..
But, just evaluating any monthly expense, and deciding how important it is to you is a great exercise in financial discipline, and if you can extrapolate that to the rest of your budget, you can make real inroads into a more financially secure life.
And.. for Mathias: 10 times your salary for retirement? I'd suggest more like 20 X.. You must have a government pension! ;-)
regards,
kyfdx
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(i) note the "give or take a factor of 2" i put in there... it really depends on your lifestyle more than what you make.
(ii) in order to save the 10x, at least if you start your career kinda late, as I did, you need to put such a large chunk away every year that the effective salary you live on is a heck of a lot smaller than what the tax statements say.
Once you save half your paycheck, it starts converging
No, I haven't managed THAT.
Just wait ten, fifteen years, and see how many people quit working and find they can't afford their houses anymore. I don't think there will be a true housing recovery because of this dynamic.
Call me Mr. Sunshine.
And off-topic. Buy hey, it's CCBA, right?
When will Subaru offer zero percent financing on the '14 Outback? I wants to buy one, but they seem to be stuck on 0.9... the '13s were 0 percent for some months... This may push my next punch into 2014.
Cheers -Mathias
If craft beer prices went down, we could save a bunch!! ;-)
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We budget very well (At least we think we do), and sometimes you just look at your expenses and say, "do I really want to spend my money on that[fill in the blank]?". And its good to challenge the way you think. Comparing it to our property investments we look at cash flow vs. appreciation (or a combo of the two) to evaluate what we're going to do. Unfortunately with autos, appreciation just isn't in the cards....
So I was debating returning, selling, trading in my lightly driven, fully loaded, 335 for something a bit less. Fr the same reasons, just got tired of paying that $6XX each month for 3 years. Someone mentioned the Acura ILX, and that was one of my choices, but I know I'll miss my 335(that I'll now tune to 400hp!). My wife then says to me, "If you let your car go, where could you find a car similar to the one you have now for $30k?" (Roughly my lease buy out). I replied....no where. So I negotiated my buy out and purchased my vehicle with all the CPO stuff at 1.9%, roughly $3-4k under my vehicle searches within a 200 mile radius of my zip for similar (not even identical) cars. I know from past posts your not in the same situation as me mileage wise, but the thinking (my wife's) helped through the process of looking at all the options.
My advise for what it's worth is to "buy" a vehicle or lease and "buy" the vehicle out, but something that you'd be willing to drive for say 8-10 years. Since your high mileage will always put you in a situation where leasing doesn't make sense, to have equity, or be even on a lease turn in. Why do I say this? From experience. I went the whole old car I really loved route....and that lasted a few weeks until my teeth were rattling while I was driving, or until you realize the new tech and safety features in older cars just isn't there, or your AC isn't that cold on a 100 degree day, or you pull up to the gas station and the car you used to own is on the opposite pump....and you start sobbing like a baby because you're miscible driving your favorite 'bucket'.....(do you get my point?).
You're on CCBA for a reason, just because you give your lease up, doesn't mean your not going to troll the board.....you work hard, buy the things you like in life, it's too short.
And if you want some more sensible advice...look elsewhere in your budget to get that cash flow back, ask yourself what payment would you be happy making to drive what you actually like, you may be surprised that its a hundred or a few hundred $$$ to get there, and honestly that's not difficult to trim from a budget. Look at things....like food! I'm serious about that! Id rather eat less than drive a crap car! I didn't realize how much junk we were eating until we looked into that and reduced the frequency we eat out and in general the processed food....wife went out and bought a NutraBullet for $80 and we're juicing our breakfast and feeling great, while we're saving money!
I agree with your predictions, but I don't think we will have to wait that long. When all those baby boomers put their houses on the market because they can no longer afford them, it will really hurt the market.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Luckily I do not have to think about this for awhile as the vehicles I want will probably be on their next generational cycle by then. One thing, if I do go the cpo route, I will not purchase a vehicle with more than 10k/year on it and the interior will need to be in somewhat great condition for me to even consider it. Obviously the creme de la creme vehicles will be pricier but I am willing to pay a bit more for what I want, the lower miled up/nicer interior vehicles, if in fact I do not purchase a new one. Have bought a few used in the past and of the 3, 1 was meh while the others were above average but there were still a few issues...I enjoyed the new vehicles more but there is nothing like new, that new smell and the mileage in the teens, those things that make one super happy. But one could get a more lux and better equipped vehicle going the cpo route and this is where the hard choices, at least in my case, will have to be made. Time will tell!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not at all certain your predictions will come true. I am of an age (62) where many of my friends and former coworkers have retired. Some of them stayed put in houses that were paid for. Some sold their houses here and moved back to where they were born and raised, to be around family (mostly elderly parents). But the largest block have sold out here and moved to be closer to their kids / grandkids.
My personal observations are undoubtedly influenced by the fact that I am in Houston, and in the oil business. Houston has (for most of my working life) seen a steady influx of people from other parts of this country, and the world, attracted here by jobs in the oil industry. Many of those people (the majority in my experience) do not wish to remain here after they’re no longer working. But the steady influx of new workers keeps the housing market fairly stable.
I do believe, overall, that we as a society (America) have over-emphasized home ownership. And some of the blame for that can be attributed to a misguided tax policy. But that veers too close to politics
There are quite a few people here in the forums who are up in my age bracket. Let me ask you this: How many of your friends have you lost to “retire and move closer to the grandkids” ?
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
My lease is up in 14 months, but that could end 4 months or so sooner if they do a pull forward. Still don't know what I want to do, cash flow will determine my next move. I'll either lease again or buy an older car.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I hear what you are saying. It's actually not the $572 per month plus insurance & property taxes that make the big difference. It is our rather large mortgage payment and the fact that a lesser car payment would give us some temporary breathing room. Anyway I slice it, we'll push through & make it!
Thank-you for taking the time to respond. You've been around here a long time & I respect your what you have to say.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Yes the Prelude is only 2 doors, but it is FWD, not rear wheel drive. Point taken about the maintenance/repairs that it could need. Even if I do what I think is necessary preventative-wise, something big could arise on a car with over 150,000 miles. Honda or not.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I do want to keep it & eventually tech my sons & daughter how to drive stick on it! It is a great car & I do LOVE it!
My problem with used is that good, even decent used cars are expensive these days.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I hear what you are saying about buying & keeping for 10 years. Our Pilot is on the 5/10 plan. Finance for 5 years, drive it for 10. The only thing I don't like about leasing, then buying out at the end if the lease is that now instead of 5 years, I'm going to theoretically be financing the car for a longer term which I don't want to do.
I hear you about the "old car thing." My Prelude still drives great for an 11 year old car w/ 150K miles, but for commuting can't touch my 328xi. The BMW has an automatic, heated seats, heated steering wheel, leather, & rides a whole helluva lot better.
Thanks for your $.02. I appreciate it.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
My dad likes to say the most common lie is "I thought" -- and sure enough, "I thought" that the Prelude died out in the 90s.
That does make a difference, though I doubt you're ready to wear it out in the daily commute. And I hear you about the "rather large mortgage payment" -- a friend of mine just took 18 months or so to sell his place near Stamford on a few acres of land... houses in MI are peanuts by comparison.
Cheers -Mathias
I live in a very modest, 1432 square foot ranch, so I'm not living in some gigantic house completely outside my means.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
My bad on the Prelude. I was 99% sure it was RWD. Even still, unless you're looking for a reason to finish off the Prelude, I'd find something else to mile up.
Just my naive 26 year old $.02.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
If the answer is yes, then having 1 older vehicle is a risky proposition. Case in point: my wife walks out of the house yesterday to head to her hockey game up north. She come scurrying back in the house about 3 mins later, tells me something is wrong with the volvo, grabs her van keys, and bolts back out.
Now, mind you, this is a car with a mere 55k miles, but it is over 15 years old, so things WILL go wrong. Granted, if she missed a hockey game, its not the end of the world, but if that happens during the week, it is far better for us that we have other vehicles to serve as backup.
My vote would be something like a $169 lease special.
BTW, for those curious, the e-brake pads on one side of the volvo broke and jammed up the wheel. Took me all of about 20 minutes to get her operational again.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S