Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Sandman6472

Remorse, nope, none as of yet but to be honest, I do wish they had turned down my offer or I had offered about $600 less in my final offer. I really should've test driven the Rav4 and Mazda5 and then gone home and thought some more. Hindsight is always 100% but if the wife had o k'd the drop top, I would've gone that route and kept the Civic and have used the Beemer on those nice days just made to drop the top. In my guy that's what I wanted to do and should have even though it would've meant jockeying around vehicles and always keeping one outside and though I could've done this, things just didn't work out. But that was the original plan and price wise, the extra $600/year was a price I was ready to pay along with the purchase price of the drop top. But that's not the route I took.
But, I am done testing and looking util the wife is ready to buy. And I will love driving the Tuscon until I decide to get into something else. Time will tell and I will make sure I have the funds put away for if and when I decide to get something new.

The Sandman

breld

@sandman_6472 said:
Sorry Breld, I just do not like waste or throwing away $ one bit, just makes no sense to me. Why have more than y'all need when so many others have so much less? I know, crazy talk for a guy who loves cars but in your case, things are just a bit out of whack here! Not judging, just don't understand the logic!

The Sandman

Well, I don't want to get too defensive here, 'cause I truly respect yours and everyone else's opinions here on this awesome forum, but I do feel compelled to respond just a little.

To one extent or another, we're all "throwing" away money a bit when it comes to cars, as a depreciating asset. I try to mitigate that by buying used most of the time. Buying used, and buying smart does help tremendously in indulging in this habit.

We are indeed fortunate, in that both my wife and I are able to work. We put a great deal into retirement, shortened our mortgage to 15 years, save for kids' college, tithe generously to our church, save for family vacations, etc....then we feel okay about throwing what's left toward the car indulgence.

Anyhow - no offense taken, but since we're sort of a little family here, I did want to share that I'm not necessarily "reckless" in the addiction.

abacomike

@sandman said:

<i>Remorse, nope, none as of yet but to be honest, I do wish they had turned down my offer or I had offered about $600 less in my final offer.</i>

Sounds like a bit of remorse to me, Sandy! So, welcome to the "<b>I feel no remorse whatsoever CLUB</b>! Been there, done that, so to speak.

What I do is accept the no so good decisions (or I should have said this or done that) as well as I accept the good decisions I make.

In your case, you worked so hard for many months weighing this variable and weighing that variable before making a decision that most of us who followed your "trials and tribulations" saga think you did a great job - no reason for any second-guessing on your part!

If I took 1/10 the time and weighed my car buying decisions just 1/20 as well as you did, I would never buy cars the way I buy cars.

Relax, Sandy, YOU DID GREAT!

breld

@sandman_6472

Well, that's just like most of us. To varying extents, we all enjoy the testing and shopping, so once you make the purchase, it sort of ends that process for some amount of time. At least you still get to occasionally try out other cars with your PT job. That's cool!

Sandman6472

Again, wasn't judging you or your wife just don't see the need for 6 vehicles for 3 drivers. Your $ and your choice on how to spend it so really none of my business. We spend on things y'all might find silly also. Just wish I had the funds to have multiple vehicles right now, hell, I'd love 7 cars for each day of the week!

The Sandman

breld

Not that it's still not more than we really need, but it'd be 5 cars for 3 drivers.

We're actually coming up on our 1 year anniversary of the 335xi and 328xiT - a whole year! And two years on the Ody!

suydam

I don't think you'd be throwing money away on either a Passat or Accord. They're practical, comfortable, and nice to drive too. Jetty doesn't sound big enough to justify IMHO. If you would drive either of those more than what you're doing now it might actually be (gasp!) practical. Sure you want to go that route?

Sandman6472

My bad, thought it was more. Love all your choices except the Ody though...like the ci drop top the best...really did want that gray over gray one but the miles were just so crazy and it drove like crap! The black one drove much better with less cowl shake but gotta feeling all convertibles have that cowl shake over bumps due to the lack of a roof. And would still love a drop top as a toy!

The Sandman

stickguy

@breld, thanks for the feedback on the jetta. I just sat in it, and for some reason it just didn't move me. I did not test drive, especially since my son (the one that may actually buy now!) looked at it and did not like it. I think one thing that bugged me was the seat adjuster. I hate manual height adjustment with a single lever ratchet that pitches you forward when you raise it up.

I have a few basic requirements. A fully adjustable power driver's seat. A moonroof. not too big. a long enough seat cushion to give me thigh support. basic infotainment system (bluetooth, ipod intergration, etc.) XM is important, but I could work with a stand-alone unit under certain circumstances. Same with black leather. I really don't want it, but I can be swayed.

The Jetta could work, but for me I would probably need a (much rarer and more expensive) SEL.

the Passat is nice. But way too big for my taste (and my sons). The Accord seems more "tidy" but still bigger than I need. Actually the Jetta is just about the perfect size.

the car that actually hits the most buttons, including size and driving experience, is the Mazda 3. which just happens to be my son's favorite too. Only issue is black leather, but the ILX has that too. In the Mazda, I can take it.

the mazda was plenty roomy in the back seat to me. and had all the bells and whistles. Nav, BLISS, backup cam, fancy stereo, heated leather, etc. for a MSRP of $24,590. Plus it gets fantastic MPG, and has the nicest steering and best handling in the class. A little bit "firmer" ride as part of the sporty aspect, but not uncomfortable, and heck, I probably would not be happy with a lexus anyway!

isellhondas

@sandman_6472 said:
Remorse, nope, none as of yet but to be honest, I do wish they had turned down my offer or I

had offered about $600 less in my final offer. I really should've test driven the Rav4 and Mazda5 and then gone home and thought some more. Hindsight is always 100% but if the wife had o k'd the drop top, I would've gone that route and kept the Civic and have used the Beemer on those nice days just made to drop the top. In my guy that's what I wanted to do and should have even though it would've meant jockeying around vehicles and always keeping one outside and though I could've done this, things just didn't work out. But that was the original plan and price wise, the extra $600/year was a price I was ready to pay along with the purchase price of the drop top. But that's not the route I took.

But, I am done testing and looking util the wife is ready to buy. And I will love driving the Tuscon until I decide to get into something else. Time will tell and I will make sure I have the funds put away for if and when I decide to get something new.

The Sandman

If it makes you feel any better, we have owned several convertibles including MG's, Miatas and a recent BMW. After awhile, the novelty wears out. On hot days, it can be too hot to drop the top without getting cooked. They are noisy and can be complex.

It seems we've never kept one too long. Is another in our future? Who knows?

stickguy

My daughter has been harassing me hard to go out tomorrow to buy a car (she wants the ILX). I made the mistake of taking her out last week with me looking. She got to test drive a few (exciting for her since she just turned 18 and got her unrestricted license, and they let her do it). I neglected to mention I really had no intention of buying anything for me (or in her mind, for her...) and was really testing for my son. But, I think she will live.

I am sticking to my plan of waiting until I know where she is going to college (and what the financial aid package is!) and then deciding what I can do for myself, and sell the Volvo and TL for something new. That assumes my son finally gets a new car so I inherit the TL, and nothing happens to either car before the summer requiring an earlier move be made.

breld

@stickguy said:
breld, thanks for the feedback on the jetta. I just sat in it, and for some reason it just didn't move me.

Oh - I thought you had driven it also. Agreed that the ratchet height adjuster is a bit antiquated. I haven't driven a Mazda3 yet, but I love the look and everything you read about it is extremely positive. Can't you get a nice cream interior in the GT model (if you don't like black)?

stickguy

@breld said:

for whatever reason, you can only get black on the iGT. If you want the "almond" leather you need to step up to the S GT for the big engine.

you can get tab cloth in the touring model, but who wants that? Though if you do, you can save a few $ getting a tech/moonroof touring with sand cloth. Only thing the GT adds is heated, power, leatherette (not leather) seats on the GT i.

blizbb

Has anyone ever purchased or "signed out" on a new vehicle before it has arrived at the dealer? For example we want to complete the contract before a manufacturer incentive expires. Is this a bad idea?

breld

I have - I bought a GTI before it hit the dealers lot. Honestly, it seemed a bit weird to me, but it all worked out in the end.

breld

Stick - have you driven an "i" and an "s" model? Curious as to how the 2.5l is in the 3.

abacomike

@blizbb

Has anyone ever purchased or "signed out" on a new vehicle before it has arrived at the dealer? For example we want to complete the contract before a manufacturer incentive expires. Is this a bad idea?

I guess it depends on how much you are saving and whether or not their is an "escape" clause - assuming the car arrives damaged or without certain options or the wrong color or interior.

If the dealer will provide you with a written statement, signed by the sales manager or general manager, that if the car is not acceptable to you, the buyer, the monies will be refunded and the buyer will have no further obligations to the seller.

I have sold undelivered cars when I was a sales manager, but always signed an addendum for the customer that I would unwind the deal if the car is not acceptable to the buyer.

Remember, you are doing the dealer a favor by allowing him to report a car "sold" prior to your taking delivery. If he is unwilling to accommodate you with a sales addendum, I would not buy/pay for the car.

blizbb

Thanks @abacomike,

The Toyota "Bonus Cash" incentive is $500, expiring 1/2/14. The car is supposed to show up 1/3-1/8. Another dealership has one on the ground already but it's $190 more.

Worth the worry? The sales person has of course assured me that if anything's wrong with it when it lands, it will be fixed right away. Also that this is a kosher deal and I can buy the car before they have it in their possession to get the incentive.

I would assume the dealership would take the hit on the incentive if that doesn't turn out to be kosher with Toyota? : /

abacomike

@blizbb said: Another dealership has one on the ground already but it's $190 more

No, he would just unwind the deal. If another dealer has one, why not tell your dealer to dealer trade for it. $190 more for a $19,000-$21,000 car is peanuts. He might even be willing to get it for you if you tell the dealer you are going to the other dealer to buy the one he has on hand. That should soften him up a bit.

I personally would push him to get you the car via dealer trade!!!

berri

Stick - I've been reading a lot of positive reviews on both the new Mazda 3 and 6.

gouldn

One more test drive today. A leftover 2013 VW GTI 4 dr "Wolfsburg" DSG. This is a nice driving car. Quick. great visibility and the handling was great. The seats were cloth which is fine by me ... leather gets sweaty in the summer and cold in the winter until the heaters kick in. Plus the GTI uses a cool plaid or "tartan" style. The seats themselves are aggressively bolstered. I am 5'11 180# and run/bike alot, so the seats were snug but not uncomfortable. If I gained about 10 more # I'd be sorry. Maybe this would be a good way to force myself to stay in shape lol.

The equipment level was not great ... no sunroof, no nav, Seats were aforementioned cloth with hybrid manual/electric controls. Ok sounding stereo with XM. There seems to be a shortage of inventory in the higher trim levels as the next generation model is not too far off (I hear they are offering a diesel GDI as well). However with VW, I would probably rather drive the last of the current generation than the first of the new generation....

The 4 door hatchback offers enough versatility, and I could easily get a bike in there.

Power delivery was a tiny bit hesitant off the line, but then it really pulled nicely. The handling was outstanding, making everyday suburban driving fun. the 40-series tires provided a busy but acceptable ride.

The car stickered at $27.8K, but without trying they offered $3500 off. I bet I could easily get 4k or more off. This would make the car in my opinion a pretty darn good deal. It's a little less fancy than I'd like, but the car really kind of clicked. I'm not saying this is the ONE, but I do keep thinking about it ....

The big worry for me is VW reliability. I've heard plenty of scare stories about these cars, and I've had good luck with Asian makes, and so-so luck with European cars. Have they gotten better?

blizbb

@abacomike said:

No, he would just unwind the deal. If another dealer has one, why not tell your dealer to dealer trade for it. $190 more for a $19,000-$21,000 car is peanuts. He might even be willing to get it for you if you tell the dealer you are going to the other dealer to buy the one he has on hand. That should soften him up a bit.

I personally would push him to get you the car via dealer trade!!!

If I've paid 100% cash for the incoming car (at the discounted price), I am not sure how he could "unwind" the deal if Toyota doesn't like paying the $500 bonus cash on a car that hadn't "landed" before the incentive expired...(?)

I actually was wondering if legally the car has to be on the ground in order to be purchased (varies by state, I'd guess?)

How long does a dealer trade normally take? The two dealerships are about 40 min apart. ($190 is not peanuts for me. )

abacomike

@blizbb said: How long does a dealer trade normally take? The two dealerships are about 40 min apart.

First of all, don't worry about what Toyota will or won't do - that's the dealer's problem, not yours. The selling price is not predicated on anything but the bottom line, out the door price.

A dealer trade usually takes 20 minutes to finalize over the phone (dealer calls the other dealer and arrangements are made to transport the car). Then, probably two or three hours for the transporter to pick up car and deliver it to selling dealer. The traded car is electronically transferred to the new dealer's inventory and the car can be sold. If they agree to dealer trade the car tomorrow morning, you should be able to pick up the car tomorrow afternoon.

I've done this hundreds of times and it is a no brainer. But I do understand your trepidations and concerns. If I was the selling dealer and I had a customer who insisted on getting his car NOW, I would accommodate my customer in order to make the sale.

stickguy

@breld said:
Stick - have you driven an "i" and an "s" model? Curious as to how the 2.5l is in the 3.

No, just a brief drive in the 2.0l. I am sure the 2.5 is quite the hot rod, but I would not likely be spending that much more coin for it. the 2.0 seems plenty peppy (and I think has been tested at ~ 8.4 0-60). so to save a couple of grand, and get the better mileage, the i is fine.

also comes with 16" wheels with a decent sized sidewall vs. 18" with lower profile, more expensive (and fragile!) tires.

breld

Yeah - I drove the previous gen 3 with the 2.0l and thought it was plenty fun.

The 3 probably doesn't need the 2.5l like, say, the CX-5.

nippononly

@breld said:
BTW, glad you're enjoying the Tuscon. I keep getting nervous for your sake that you'll test out one of these other models and have a little remorse, but so far so good. Looks like you made the right choice.

I agree - test driving competing models a few weeks AFTER making a new car purchase is the CCBA version of suicide as soon as you find anything you like better about one of the other models...

breld

Gouldn - that GTI is a great car. Several of us have owned them. It combines practical everyday usefulness with the hatchback, with a sporty drive. It's a bit more grown-up than some other hot hatches, again IMO. The best part about that Wolfsburg edition is the wheels - much better than the standard ones, IMO.

I don't worry too much about the VW reliability, but I can't say I've owned one into high miles.

nyccarguy

@ breld - The Passat has a MASSIVE back seat. Sounds perfect for what you "need" it for. My Mom had a Passat once when her Cayenne was in for service. She's 5'2" & sits on top of the steering wheel. It was like a limo back there. I agree with you that VW is slowly putting back in some of the content that's been taken out. For instance, all 2014 Jettas have a completely independent rear suspension. Up until now, only current generation GLI owners got the IRS. VW is seeing what it can get away;). Good luck. Sounds like you are locked in & might be our 1st punch of 2014;)

tifighter

Speaking of which, what's the count for 2013? I can't remember who is maintaining the list now, but we are under the final minute of the 4th quarter now.

rayainsw

gouldn -

' The seats themselves are aggressively bolstered. I am 5'11 180# and run/bike alot, so the seats were snug but not uncomfortable. If I gained about 10 more # I'd be sorry. '

Sure wish we could title our responses and \ or respond to a specific post.

Anyway - I am 6'0" and over 230 - and I find the seats quite accommodating & comfortable -

• even in driving up to 6+ hours in one day. FWIW.

Enjoy!

• Ray

Over 6,000 miles now on the 2013 GTI . . .

Sandman6472

Our '05 Mazda 3s has the 2.3 engine and that thing kicks [non-permissible content removed] down the pike...serious acceleration so I'm betting the newer 2.5 is a blast! Ours has been very reliable and now that it's approaching 128k, all is great except the a/c only works on #3 and #4 with cold air...she's decided, against my advice, to wait till it quits completely to get it fixed so I've backed off...pretty dumb really as the vehicle is staying in the fleet now until the 2015's hit the lot. That's a decision I don't agree with but again, it isn't my choice here. They took it over to Tampa last week and all went well except that it's really dirty. New Years day it gets a much needed bath at the car wash.
Am done looking actually but let's be honest, we're all constantly looking for the next vehicle...true??? I'm happy right now and that's all that matters because I think if I had tried the Tiguan before I bought the Tuscon, I'd have spent the extra funds and just bought it. Never owned a VW before but my twin's had two now, a Jetta and now a Tiguan, and likes them. Didin't want to own the same vehicle as he has but that wasn't the reason I went with Hyundai. Reliability was a big factor as was the warranty...Hyundai has a great warranty and we've loved our Accent. Also, the Tiguan SE with all the options I got on my Tuscon SE would've been way more expensive as I think only the SEL has a full power seat. I did see that VW does offer the same XM deal as all the others and they do have free maintenance but heard that one should service at the VW store but there's one right up the street so that wasn't a consideration.
No, I am done looking now and happy with my purchase. Just need to get the color keyed door edge guards and the Kia store does this on their Sportage models so I will pay to have the silver ones put on my doors. Would also like a silver strip put on the vehicle, the ones that go down the length of the doors to protect them from door dings, not sure what they are called but have seen them on Toyotas and other makes. Would like that extra protection so need to go search this thing out at different dealers. Sure the paint color would match. Stopped by the Hyundai parts department yesterday to see if I could purchase the chrome surrounds for the front grill that the limited models have but they said they don't sell them...shame as it really dressed up the front of the vehicle nicely. I do plan to keep the XM once it expires but at a vastly reduced rate...got them down to $9/month last time so we'll see what they will accept here.

The Sandman

corvette

@tifighter said:
Speaking of which, what's the count for 2013? I can't remember who is maintaining the list now, but we are under the final minute of the 4th quarter now.

That would be me. The current count is 32, assuming andres3 picked up his Audi S4.

roadburner

@blizbb said:
Has anyone ever purchased or "signed out" on a new vehicle before it has arrived at the dealer? For example we want to complete the contract before a manufacturer incentive expires. Is this a bad idea?

I ordered my Club Sport before it hit the streets- they were only going to build 400 of them. I had driven a base 318ti and I came away less than impressed, but I figured that the M Technic suspension, M Technic aerodynamics, and the sport seats ofthe Club Sport would transform the car. I was right- and after 18 years I still own it.

breld

@nyccarguy said:
@ breld - The Passat has a MASSIVE back seat. Sounds perfect for what you "need" it for...all 2014 Jettas have a completely independent rear suspension....Sounds like you are locked in & might be our 1st punch of 2014;)

Thanks for the feedback nyc. The Passat indeed has a massive back seat - perhaps a bit bigger than the Accord, but the Accord is plenty roomy too. If I went with one of these larger sedans, I find myself leaning toward the Accord just a bit, but it could go either way.

I knew they made changes to the Jetta, but I didn't know they added in the independent rear suspension to the non-GLIs - I suppose that was one of the reasons I enjoyed the test drive so much. That along with the 1.8t.

We'll see if I end up making a punch sooner than later - I'm trying to take my time on this one. Ideally, I'd wait until the spring, consider selling the 'vert at that time, and then seriously look for a slightly used Accord or Passat.

jpp75

@nyccarguy said:
So what is your G37's lease buyout with the new $4000 discount?

It would be $28.3k plus fees, taxes, etc. Just a hair over $30k otd and after thinking it over we've decided to let it go back. That's still a bit more than comparable models are listed for online and we don't have to have a third car right now so we're just going to turn it back in and buy something later in the year.

isellhondas

@blizbb said:
Thanks abacomike,

The Toyota "Bonus Cash" incentive is $500, expiring 1/2/14. The car is supposed to show up 1/3-1/8. Another dealership has one on the ground already but it's $190 more.

Worth the worry? The sales person has of course assured me that if anything's wrong with it when it lands, it will be fixed right away. Also that this is a kosher deal and I can buy the car before they have it in their possession to get the incentive.

I would assume the dealership would take the hit on the incentive if that doesn't turn out to be kosher with Toyota? : /

I sold, probably a hundred cars and contracted them when they were still in transit and I never once had any kind of a problem. Just make sure they have a VIN number or they can't contract the car.>

isellhondas

How long does a dealer trade take?

Depending if a driver is available (usually some retired guy on call) they should get this done within the same day. Once it arrives, a good store will do another Pre Delivery Inspection and clean it up before they will deliver it.

stever

That sounds like my kind of job - after years of running rivers, I'm well versed in the pains of trying to work out shuttles. And I like to drive.

So, how does the retired guy get to the dealer to pick up the car? Rides over with another retired guy and two cars come back?

Too bad the closest dealer is an hour away LOL.

stickguy

@Stever@Edmunds said:
That sounds like my kind of job - after years of running rivers, I'm well versed in the pains of trying to work out shuttles. And I like to drive.

So, how does the retired guy get to the dealer to pick up the car? Rides over with another retired guy and two cars come back?

Too bad the closest dealer is an hour away LOL.

He drives a swap car over and brings the trade back

imidazol97

@Stever@Edmunds said: So, how does the retired guy get to the dealer to pick up the car? Rides over with another retired guy and two cars come back?

When I bought my 03 leSabre, the dealer traded a vehicle of theirs to the dealer holding the car that I wanted to buy. So one person drove the first car down and brought the car I wanted back.

jpp75

@nyccarguy said:
jpp

I'm starting to see a few Q50s on the road. I saw a black one this AM on my way to Long Island. It's a beautiful car. You made a fantastic choice & I look forward to hearing your driving/ownership experiences.

Thanks NYC, the more I drive the car the more I love it. After about 1,200 miles I'm averaging just over 30 mpg in a mix of about 50-50 highway and city driving but I love the instant torque you get from the electric motor.

I'm still getting used to all the driving aids, the auto braking and lane keep system are nice but I'm also afraid of getting a little too used to them.

blizbb

Thanks @roadburner and @isellhondas

Is that the type of thing that varies with state law?

Did it make you at all nervous that the dealer is less likely to help you out if you've already purchased and the car shows up with a ding in it?

kyfdx

@gouldn

A couple of months ago, they were getting $5K off MSRP on 2013 GTI leases.. The higher trim level cars were leasing for around $325-$350/mo ($30K MSRP) for 36mo/15K/yr..

tifighter

@breld

Slightly used Accords usually hold their value so well that it usually makes more sense to just go new. $23.2k invoice for a Sport CVT, and you know that CPO ones will be $20995 in the spring.

Can't say on Passats.

stickguy

Always buy an Accord new vs. slightly used. Sometimes it seems to actually be cheaper that way!

stickguy

My kids both seem to to be infected by CCB now. my daughter has been bugging me incessantly to go get an ILX today. I finally explained it weren't happening now for all the logical reasons. She got grumpy, but came up with a grand new plan (which happened to be my actual plan!) of looking for a nicer used car to replace the Volvo with. Since we could do that any time. I told her it could work, so she spent the morning finding nice used BMWs on-line. So I expect I will be monitoring the used market again now. She really liked a 2007 Monaco blue 528i she found listed (it was a sharp car!)

The ultimate goal is to sell the S40 and the TL (when the time is right!) and take that money, plus a little pot sweetener (maybe 5K) and see what I can get for it all on a cash deal. That way, no additional loans on the books. then a year down the line, if princess is going to have a car at school, we can lease a cheap new one.

my son is still looking hard. came home for lunch telling me he saw a Focus SE hatch in the parking lot, and thought it looked cool so sat down to check it out on-line. can build a pretty well equipped one, for probably barely over 20K retail after haggling and a 2K rebate. A respectable option I guess vs. the Mazda.

He is also going after work (he is on the 11-8 shift today) to check out the ILX again, but I think he is finding it too bland/unexciting now. Plus it is kind of pokey compared to the TL! Really the primary redeeming feature is the lease price.

just needs to find out for sure he got the job extension to his assignment that he interviewed for and he will pull the trigger on something (with a 3i GT still being the likely candidate).

kyfdx

Took my 3-series in for the $79 oil change special at the dealer.. Alternator is going bad, and CCV valve needs replacing (plus associated hoses/gaskets). Any guesses on cost of either of those items?

stickguy

@kyfdx@Edmunds said:
Took my 3-series in for the $79 oil change special at the dealer.. Alternator is going bad, and CCV valve needs replacing (plus associated hoses/gaskets). Any guesses on cost of either of those items?

probably a lot? Might be cheaper to just drive over to Qbrozen's house with the parts and a six pack and let him tear into it.

corvette

@kyfdx@Edmunds said:
Took my 3-series in for the $79 oil change special at the dealer.. Alternator is going bad, and CCV valve needs replacing (plus associated hoses/gaskets). Any guesses on cost of either of those items?

If they used synthetic oil, a $79 oil change at a BMW dealer is a loss leader and they probably have to make it up by finding other things that need fixing. I'm guessing $1-2,000 for both, depending on the dealer's labor rate. The CCV looks like a royal pain to replace.

nyccarguy

@jpp5862 - a local dealer has a 2010 Amulet Red G37X sedan listed for $25K (25K miles).