Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Michaell

@fintail said:
Funny about the Prelude trade, when I was out with my friend (and a friend of his) looking at cars, we were in the fintail, as his friend had never ridden in such an old car. The BMW guy actually asked if it was going to be a trade in - he appeared half serious about it too.

Wonder what KBB would hit your fintail at for trade value?

fintail

Probably enough for me to get some BMW logo valve stem caps.

@Michaell@Edmunds said:

boomchek

Specialty and classic cars are a bit tough for dealerships to take on trade as it takes a special buyer to actually want one and it could take months to sell.

fintail

I don't think any mainstream dealer would touch something like my old car, with all of its quirks and needs. Funny, way back when, when I bought my W126, the salesman asked the same thing - maybe people show up with freakshow trades now and then.

Michaell

@fintail said:
I don't think any mainstream dealer would touch something like my old car, with all of its quirks and needs. Funny, way back when, when I bought my W126, the salesman asked the same thing - maybe people show up with freakshow trades now and then.

Sorry, I must have omitted the 'tongue in cheek' emotorcon. I don't see anybody trading in an old or classic car.

Same is true for my dad's '70 Chevy pickup. In excellent condition, but as a trade I can't imagine it being worth more than a few thousand. To a collector, however .... my dad has turned down offers of up to $10K to sell it.

fintail

A special car is one where the seller is best to do the work on their own - those seeking odd cars won't be looking to a new car dealer's used lot to buy, and the new car dealer won't be able to pay a price as he'll be stuck with risk and a probable lot ornament.

stickguy

stopped at the nissan dealer today while out running errands. Seemed less "aggressive" than the last time I was there (sales guys no longer lined up outside, waiting to jump you while they smoked). Had a nice chat with a guy. and took a ride in an Altima.

it was actually pretty nice. Much better than the last generation.good ride, quiet, handled well. Comfortable in a short drive (might take a while to get used to the "zero gravity" seats), though might have a tad too much lumbar bump. Be, it did have a nice dash set up, and plenty of features.

I drove an SV w/moonroof (MSRP ~27,100), a leftover 2013 (they had a few of them). Had an SL on the floor with a big "$5,500 off" sign on it. Not sure what the one I drove was gettable for, but I am guessing an offer of $21K, take it right now, might have worked.

would be a good long commute car. Comfy, all the necessary goodies, and 38 highway with an 18 gallon tank. Range, baby range!

if my change to a long commute goes through, the Altima will be on the short list if I decide to go new. May not fit the budget though, sadly. A 2010ish with ~40K on it to drive for 4 years might be a better, cheaper idea.

Michaell

Daughter is getting serious about the Countryman. She wants to visit the dealer on Saturday to check them out and possibly buy.

Dealer website sucks - they don't show what options are on any particular car. She's looking for sunroof, nav, tech, cold and automatic. Most of the cars with nav also have leather.

$2500 incentive in April helps.

isellhondas

Every Sales Manager loves to tell a story about how some customer nobody wanted to wait on ended up buying a fleet of cars. In Abomikes case, I know his story is true and so may some of the others.

Still, in 99 percent of time a seasoned salesperson will know which customers to avoid.

I'm the first to say that stereotyping people isn't a good thing to do yet the stereotypes are there for a reason. It was funny to watch as the greenpeas would grab every customer they could find at first and it was actually good for the rest of us.

Soon, however, they learned and they became like the rest of us.

Management did not support this and if caught dodging a customer there would be hell to pay as there should have been hell to pay.

xwesx

@stickguy said:
if my change to a long commute goes through, the Altima will be on the short list if I decide to go new.

Speaking of which, how did that interview go?

stickguy

first interview went very good. Supposed to go over Friday morning to meet in person.

stickguy

Isell, stereotyping in sales is just playing the odds. Sometimes you lose, but more often you win (if, as you say, you are experienced with doing it!)

abacomike

@isellhondas‌ said:

"Every Sales Manager loves to tell a story about how some customer nobody wanted to wait on ended up buying a fleet of cars. "

I think I shared this story before, but it's worth repeating:

At the Lexus dealer I worked, the IS 300 had just been released in an assortment of "very unique colors." One of those colors was a mustard yellow-green color.

We had an inventory of 10 of those cars and had not sold one in that color in 45 days. I know they tried to dealer trade them, but no other dealership would take them.

At a Thursday morning sales meeting, the GSM said he wants them "gone" over the weekend and put out a $500 spiff for everyone sold Thursday through closing on Sunday.

Not one was sold through Saturday - they were all out on the front lot conspicuously displayed.

I was working Sunday so I arrived at 9:00 AM, an hour before we opened. I was trying to make calls and get a few customers who had shown interest in the IS300, but no luck.

At 10:00 AM, the manager opened the front showroom doors, but the greeter had not yet arrived. The manager said if customers come in, it's an open floor until she arrived.

I spotted an African American gentleman looking at cars out on the front lot and seemed interested in the IS300's. So I walked out to greet the gentleman since none of the other salesmen moved a muscle. They said to me as I walked out the door, "...don't waste your time - he's a looker, not a buyer.

I introduced myself and he mentioned that he didn't think we were open yet. I asked the customary questions regarding needs, type of driving, size, economy, etc. he shared with me that he had twin girls whose birthday was tomorrow, Monday, and since they will just turn18, he thought it was time for them to have cars of their own. I asked him if any one of the cars he had looked at would be right for his daughters. He replied that he liked those IS300's we had lined up in the lot. He walked over to the yellow/green cars and said I like these.

Without dragging this out, needless to say he called his daughters who were with their mom at Denny's having breakfast to come over to the dealership. They arrived, fell in love with the cars, and he paid cash for both cars.

Then, his wife liked the car so much that they bought a third one in the same color and traded in their 4 year old Pontiac Bonneville.

True story! They were so very nice and extremely refined an poised - very loving family. I sold them more cars a couple of years later and I had many referrals from them through their church.

At Monday's sales meeting, special mention was made of my 3-car mustard deal and they handed me 3-$500 checks right then and there. Of course on Friday's check, they took out all the taxes and Social Security, but the manager said I had found a "Diamond in the Rough !"

stickguy

good story Mike. But for the life of me, I can't understand getting the same exact color for both girls, never mind the mother. How do you tell them apart? And how boring!

genericram

"Still, in 99 percent of time a seasoned salesperson will know which customers to avoid."

Might be fun to hear a discussion of stereotypes (PC, of course).

What potential customer do you trample over everyone else to get to.........or to avoid?

suydam

You know, the 2010 Altimas are pretty nice too. A little bit smaller but plenty of room inside and I think they handle better than the larger 2013 and up. Less goodies like Bluetooth or XM though. Either way would be a win. That was our second choice behind the Accord we wound up buying.

stever

The biggest stereotype, of course, is that dealers are crooks.

kyfdx

@Stever@Edmunds said:
The biggest stereotype, of course, is that dealers are crooks.

Is it still a stereotype, if it's true?

corvette

@suydam said:
You know, the 2010 Altimas are pretty nice too. A little bit smaller but plenty of room inside and I think they handle better than the larger 2013 and up. Less goodies like Bluetooth or XM though.

I really liked my 2009 and never had any mechanical problems, owning it from 29,000 miles until about 71,000 miles. Definitely look at a 2010 or newer, as stability control became standard on all trims in 2010 (it was offered only on the most loaded models prior to that). No Bluetooth on most of those, but it does have an auxiliary input for the radio. Also, look for a 2.5S and not the base 2.5, as the base model is missing some basic content which all the others have (like cruise control and a radio, if memory serves).

abacomike

@stickguy said:

good story Mike. But for the life of me, I can't understand getting the same exact color for both girls, never mind the mother. How do you tell them apart? And how boring!

The girls were twins - and they both loved the color because it wasn't mundane like blue, white, black, grey, silver or beige. The girls dressed alike as well - do I guess they wanted to "drive alike" as well.

At the end, the man said his wife wanted one and asked, "...what kind of deal could I get if I bought 3 cars?" The manager approved a $750 over invoice deal on each of the 3 cars if they took the same color. So that clinched the deal for the same color.

Management was thrilled to reduce their inventory by 3 ugly cars - and believe me, the color resembled mustard - I am sure many posters have seen a 2003 IS300 sedan in the color I'm talking about .

roadburner

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
Daughter is getting serious about the Countryman. She wants to visit the dealer on Saturday to check them out and possibly buy.

Dealer website sucks - they don't show what options are on any particular car. She's looking for sunroof, nav, tech, cold and automatic. Most of the cars with nav also have leather.

$2500 incentive in April helps.

Go to http://www.bmwarchive.org/vin/bmw-vin-decoder.html
Enter the last 7 characters of the VIN and it will give you the options on a new/used Mini/BMW/RR...

Michaell

@roadburner said:
Enter the last 7 characters of the VIN and it will give you the options on a new/used Mini/BMW/RR...

Awesome! I'll do that first thing in the morning. This will help our search greatly as we will be able to find a car with the right options in a preferred color.

Thanks for the link.

sb55

@genericram said:
"Still, in 99 percent of time a seasoned salesperson will know which customers to avoid."

Might be fun to hear a discussion of stereotypes (PC, of course).

What potential customer do you trample over everyone else to get to.........or to avoid?

I used to sell very high end products. We did a few retail trade shows, and the "mantra" was look at the customers shoes to see if they were of the means to buy the product, or just lookers. Many people would dress down, but still wear the high end shoes. This was especially true if renting a booth at a horse show. The customer may be literally covered in manure, but you could spot an owner from the groom by the shoes.
This was 25 years ago, and I am not sure that this would play out in todays world.

graphicguy

Cadillac is trying hard to get people into their showrooms. Hot on the heels of sending me a $50 Visa gift card from the autoshow this past winter, I just received an invitation to take another look, offering $1,500 Conquest allowance on a purchase/lease of any Cadillac, and $100 Visa gift card for another test drive.

I might start signing up for every manufacturer's "incentives". Could be a nice ;supplement to my income.

jayrider

@graphicguy said:
Cadillac is trying hard to get people into their showrooms. Hot on the heels of sending me a $50 Visa gift card from the autoshow this past winter, I just received an invitation to take another look, offering $1,500 Conquest allowance on a purchase/lease of any Cadillac, and $100 Visa gift card for another test drive.

I might start signing up for every manufacturer's "incentives". Could be a nice ;supplement to my income.

The problem for me on the test drive is that you can't get the $100 if you already own a GM vehicle. My Buick disqualifies me or I'd be there today.

breld

Hey Michael - we're planning on going to the Denver Auto Show this evening, just to beat the weekend crowds. Have fun on Saturday and sorry we'll miss you there. One of these years we'll meet up there.

qbrozen

I heard tell of this $100. how do I get in on that? I wouldn't be adverse to testing a turbo ATS.

stickguy

Q, just show up and mention it. Just make sure you have the registration to one of your newer cars. Not sure if their are brand restrictions or if mustang will do. There was no coupon to fill out in advance to register. They will fill out a firm when you show up that includes VIN #.

laurasdada

At the New England Auto Show, Lincoln was hot and bothered to get you to sign up for test drives, I think they were $50 Visa cards. Having just bought a new car, though, I declined. A few times, actually. What the heck is wrong with me! I did find the seat in the MKZ to be comfy, though.

graphicguy

@stickguy said:
Q, just show up and mention it. Just make sure you have the registration to one of your newer cars. Not sure if their are brand restrictions or if mustang will do. There was no coupon to fill out in advance to register. They will fill out a firm when you show up that includes VIN #.

That's my understanding. Will go tonight to see if it's really that easy.

Fine print says you must own any competitive vehicle. But, I don't know what those are.

Michaell

@breld said:
Hey Michael - we're planning on going to the Denver Auto Show this evening, just to beat the weekend crowds. Have fun on Saturday and sorry we'll miss you there. One of these years we'll meet up there.

No worries -- if all goes well, I'll be on the golf course later today. Gotta enjoy this spring weather while it's here.

fintail

I wonder if Caddy is doing that everywhere - I kind of don't mind the new CTS (although it seems goofy with a gas 4cyl), driving one might be an experience.

qbrozen

I searched online and it seems the $100 Caddy thing was till 3/31

graphicguy

@qbrozen said:
I searched online and it seems the $100 Caddy thing was till 3/31

Q....went to a Caddy dealer over lunch break. They didn't mention anything about an expiration date. Although, surprisingly they said they could get me out of my Acura and into a CTS (which I was looking at in their showroom) for about the same payment as my Acura. I told them I didn't have a payment, which seemed to really confound my sales person.

He took a copy of my registration and license and said to expect a $100 gift card in about 4 weeks.

CTS is a sharp car, btw.

laurasdada

I was at a local, large mall yesterday. Caddy ELR on display, only $80k. Other than me strolling by, zero onlookers... Forgot to go by the Tesla store! Big place.

boomchek

Speaking of Caddies, I'm shocked as how the new ones depreciate. I got called on a 2011 CTS Coupe with only 9k. Granted it was a rebuild, but book value on a non rebuild is only $20-$22k CDN. I hit the Caddy at low teens. the guy wanted $24k for it.

So that's another reason that if Cadillac wants to compete with BMW and Benz, it might take them a while in terms of quality perception and resale values. If this was a 2011 3 series, it would book for about $10k more across the board.

isellhondas

@genericram said:
"Still, in 99 percent of time a seasoned salesperson will know which customers to avoid."

Might be fun to hear a discussion of stereotypes (PC, of course).

What potential customer do you trample over everyone else to get to.........or to avoid?

It would be impossible to discuss stereotypes while remaining PC.

Anyone in sales already knows.

Michaell

The search continues. Thanks to RB for the VIN decoder - we've found a few Countryman S ALL4 with sunroof, tech and nav. Gray, white, black, green and silver.

We're going to dealer on Saturday so she can 'feel' which color speaks to her, then try to cut a deal.

tjc78

@stickguy said:
tjc78, something in the paper today for you (if you get the courier post, in the USA today money section (Probably in the USA today also). They have a 3 row SUV challenge you might find interesting. Santa Fe finished 1st. Traverse finished last out of 7.

not particularly analytic, but well done for a typical buyer (what they are interested in).

Thanks for article, I was quite surprised the Traverse came in last place.

graphicguy

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
The search continues. Thanks to RB for the VIN decoder - we've found a few Countryman S ALL4 with sunroof, tech and nav. Gray, white, black, green and silver.

We're going to dealer on Saturday so she can 'feel' which color speaks to her, then try to cut a deal.

MIchaell...not sure if it's still the case, but I know for a good long while Minis were selling at MSRP....no negotiation.

genericram

"It would be impossible to discuss stereotypes while remaining PC."

Guess it's not even PC to pose questions like that. Shouldn't have asked.

I probably fit some stereotypes, myself. Sometimes I feel that being underestimated can be an advantage.

breld

Enjoyed an evening at the Denver Auto Show last night. For the size of show, there's obviously nothing new we weren't aware of, but here are some of my impressions.

• Mustang - first one that I'd really consider for myself since I was 16 years old and had pictures of Mustang GTs on my bedroom wall. Styling changes appear subtle, but in person there seems to be an overall loss of weight "visually" and a nice modernization of the theme. May be a little sacrilege, but a 4-cyl turbo with the manual sounds great to me (I have to admit I longed for the old "SVT" model back in the day).

• BMWs - still really like the 2-series. They had a red M235i on display - very comfortable from the driver's seat, and a reasonable amount of rear seat room considering the size of car. From looking at a couple of "M" line cars, seems that BMW is bringing back the alcantara steering wheel - felt great, but hope they hold up better than in the old ZHPs.

• Mini - Michael, they have a Countryman that I really liked - a nice medium blue color with a white top and stripes. They also had one of the new hardtops - non-S model. Changes are even more subtle than the Mustang, but do serve the model well, especially in the interior.

• GTI/Golf - I was surprised they had the new GTI and a Golf at our show. Spent most of my time admiring those models. Very upscale look, inside and out. Since one of my sons was with me, had him sit in the backseat and he said it was just fine. Hmmm....

• Fit - also had the new Honda Fit on display, and available to sit in. Handsome enough, and I imagine it will do very well with a more modern powertrain and feature list.

Fun evening as usual - we can get Michael's impression this weekend after his visit.

breld

By the way, my wife has her eyes on an Audi TT (coupe model). With her daughter now driving, she's feeling a coupe would fit her needs just fine and has always liked the look of the Audi. This coming from the same woman who didn't really like my A5 'cause she thought it sat too low and the coupe style didn't allow for great visibility.

We'll see - she's no different than me. Once she has an idea in her head on a change in car, it usually results in a change. She's taking her time (by our standards) to really consider if something like the TT would be a good daily driver.

Local Audi dealer is getting in a used 2009 model with only 11k miles, CPO. May be a good candidate, but they've used the low mileage and CPO warranty to price it a bit dear.

Michaell

@graphicguy said:
MIchaell...not sure if it's still the case, but I know for a good long while Minis were selling at MSRP....no negotiation.

The local MINI dealer is a 'one price' shop (breld knows - he's bought from the sister BMW dealer in the past). However, unlike many dealers here in Colorado, they don't have a 'dealer fee' added in.

MINI is offering $2500 off all Countrymans in April, so that helps. And, we're hoping to see $12K in trade on her '10 MINI Cooper Hardtop, so there will be a little bit of positive equity going into the deal as well.

At the moment, the front-runner is white, then maybe the Royal Gray. Black and green are also available with the equipment she wants.

And yes, I'm planning on attending the Denver Auto Show on Saturday as well ... car shopping won't take place until later in the afternoon.

graphicguy

Countryman is the "big Mini", right?

nextcar3

Well, finally gave-in and traded in my GTI for a Q50. Lost a bit of money (negative equity) but overall happy with the trade. Payments remain the same with 0 down for the Q50. Found the Q50 to be the best match (was looking at TL, Optima Turbo, Q50/G37).The Q50 doesn't drive as well as the GTI (may be I just have to get used to the new driving style) but is better in every thing else (other than trunk space with the spare). Love the interiors and the audio system (not as good a TL).

The plan is to use it for couple of years, give it to wife, trade-in her car (Beetle) for something bigger (for myself).

Michaell

@graphicguy said:
Countryman is the "big Mini", right?

Yes, it's the 4 door. The girls call it the "Maxi".

breld

Congrats on the Q50. I sat in one for the first time at the car show last night and really liked it. Would certainly put in on my list as they become more available on the used market.

breld

Couple other thoughts from the car show I forgot about:

• Audi A3 - I'm impressed with this car, as others seem to be too. The proportions are really nice and classic, much like the 1st gen A4 (which I'm sure was very intentional). The one I looked at was a 2.0T Quattro with some nice options - no navigation, but still well equipped with the pano sunroof, for about $35k. I see stickguy in one of these ).

• Subaru Legacy - they had the new model up on a podium, and I was anxious to see it in person. Unfortunately, it came off as pretty darn plain to me. There's nothing offensive, but it just seems very derivative - the front-end is sharp, but looks much like a Ford Taurus; the taillights look like they're from the Chrysler 200 recycle bin. I want to like Subarus (and have owned them in the past), but their styling just always seems to be a step behind.

breld

@breld said:

• Mustang - first one that I'd really consider for myself since I was 16 years old and had pictures of Mustang GTs on my bedroom wall. Styling changes appear subtle, but in person there seems to be an overall loss of weight "visually" and a nice modernization of the theme. May be a little sacrilege, but a 4-cyl turbo with the manual sounds great to me (I have to admit I longed for the old "SVT" model back in the day).
  

Uh, I meant "SVO" in case anyone was grading me.