Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

you get some serious depreciation on these high end cars. Not sure what the original MSRP was on this Benz (guessing around 55?) and now listed for $33,000 with only 19K on the clock for a 2012.

Also love this color.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2012-mercedes~benz-e~class-e350_4matic-used-12570006.html

fintail

Yep, that's how they depreciate. Almost 3 years old now, so that seems about right for non CPO car without a ton of options. Sticker was probably 55-60K, but it sold or leased for less. One thing though, I am pretty sure that's a Tex interior, and not a Designo exterior color (looks like "steel grey" to me, not graphite). It is a nice color for the car.

stickguy said:

you get some serious depreciation on these high end cars.

graphicguy

Just filled up at COSTCO last night on PUG for the TL. $2.84 for RUG $3.14 for PUG.

3-4 months ago it was 40% higher. Oil companies must have run out of excuses for trying to rape us on gas prices.

Just a follow up on the Lincoln test drive. Got a survey from Lincoln asking me everything from how I liked the car, to the dealership, to the sales people, to how I was treated, what sort of followup was done. to whether they returned my car to me washed.

I asked the sales person to give me a ball park of what the MKZ I test drove would sell for. She told me she would get the sales GUY (who didn't even keep his appointment with me) to give ma a call to work out some pricing. Guess what? Never heard a peep from him. Why does that not surprise me.

I gave them a failing grade, across the board, except I also said I found the MKZ to be a surprisingly good car. Too bad the dealership is trying to make it unsellable.

Got a strange feeling they'll be turning over their sales staff very soon. Wouldn't hurt to give their showroom a much needed and well overdue rehab.

nyccarguy

An E that's a few years old still looks great. That's part of the beauty of Mercedes is that their styling is timeless. My best friend had an '09 E350 4matic. Last year of the round headlights, AMG Appearance Package (5 spoke AMG wheels, black mesh grill, different front fascia, twin exhaust tips). I saw a white one just like the one he had the other day and it still looks great.

2010 was the 1st year of the newer squared headlights, and I think 2011 was the 1st year of the LED daytime running lights. 2011 - 2013 are very handsome looking cars IMO.

Even a 2013 C300 4matic that was a dealer service loaner could probably be had for not a lot of money considering last year it was a $40K car.

stickguy

I wouldn't mind driving something like that Benz to see what it is like. That one was buried a bit in the garage so wasn't going to make them dig it out. At least that is in a price range where I could conceive of at least thinking about it. A 50K+ car ain't never happening! At least not before I am done with college....

rayainsw

I watched the development of the new Mustang with interest.
I see good in the new product. Including the IRS. However:
If I did select a Mustang, it would have to be a GT - V8, A6.
That V8 burble & heterodyne beat is a Mustang hallmark, to me.
The torque converter A6 seems rather behind the times.
The highway EPA rating is 25.
There is no moonroof available.

Anyway - If I decided to go ‘USA Musclecar’, at this point, I think I would choose the new Challenger – V8, A8, moonroof. I have seen a few & like what I see.
[ And yes, I know the EPA highway rating here is also 25. ]
Or even the new Charger – when available.

But for some, the new Mustang does look interesting . . .

= Ray
Still pondering . . .

jayrider

nyccarguy said:

An E that's a few years old still looks great. That's part of the beauty of Mercedes is that their styling is timeless. My best friend had an '09 E350 4matic. Last year of the round headlights, AMG Appearance Package (5 spoke AMG wheels, black mesh grill, different front fascia, twin exhaust tips). I saw a white one just like the one he had the other day and it still looks great.

2010 was the 1st year of the newer squared headlights, and I think 2011 was the 1st year of the LED daytime running lights. 2011 - 2013 are very handsome looking cars IMO.

Even a 2013 C300 4matic that was a dealer service loaner could probably be had for not a lot of money considering last year it was a $40K car.

Reliability for the E class is stellar.

ab348

js06gv said:

Same way on the 2014 with respect to the leather, have to move up to a GT Premium to get it. At least that was the case when I bought my 2011.

Not according to the Ford Canada site. Just checked again, leather standard on the 2014 GT base.

ab348

fintail said:

Yep, that's how they depreciate. Almost 3 years old now, so that seems about right for non CPO car without a ton of options. Sticker was probably 55-60K, but it sold or leased for less. One thing though, I am pretty sure that's a Tex interior, and not a Designo exterior color (looks like "steel grey" to me, not graphite). It is a nice color for the car.

I like the paint, the black interior not so much. Up here that car would be at least $10K more asking.

They have 2 other E-class car shown, one sold, the other sale pending, that are even nicer. I love the one with the "Amaretto" interior.

But if you want to talk depreciation, you're talking S-class. Try a $70K hit in 3 years!

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2011-mercedes~benz-s~class-s550_4matic-used-12174238.html

stickguy

I liked the other interiors better too. Just happened to like that exterior color.

They also have an early 2000's V-12 coupe, for about 10K. Claimed service records. Probably need a file box for those. Fits the budget, but I do not feel that lucky!

fintail

The "hockey stick" LEDs were available on 2010 models if one ordered the P2 package, which gave adaptive lighting. In 2011 they became standard, but adaptive lighting was (and still is) an option. For 2012, the LED design became a flat bar. That lasted through 2013, and for 2014, the LEDs are integrated into the headlights. as MB is moving towards a curvier styling language. I prefer the more angular 2010-13 ("pre-facelift") style too. The previous E, W211, has aged well, considering it was on the road 12 years ago. MB knows how to make something that holds up well design-wise. Almost all of them age gracefully, at least on the outside.

I've seen blowout leases on leftover W204 C-class, under $300 month with not a lot upfront. Not bad for something usually with a 36-38K sticker.

nyccarguy said:

An E that's a few years old still looks great. That's part of the beauty of Mercedes is that their styling is timeless.

fintail

Canadian prices are higher, but Canadian cars, E-class at least, get more standard equipment (lighting, leather, folding mirrors, maybe parktronic). The US market gets a loss leader low MSRP car for the leasing game. I am certain a minority of US E-class have leather.

That S is falling victim to what happens when a new model is introduced - it makes the old one less desirable. I can get an earlier W221 for the price of a loaded Elantra.

ab348 said:

I like the paint, the black interior not so much. Up here that car would be at least $10K more asking.

They have 2 other E-class car shown, one sold, the other sale pending, that are even nicer. I love the one with the "Amaretto" interior.

stickguy

dang, maybe I should stop at the MB dealer. If it isn't much more than an Accord, why not?

Ah, the siren song of leasing. it's always "just a few $ more per month"

I have never driven one, but I do like the way the outgoing C class looks. especially in dark blue.

au1994

I test drove a 2014 E Class a few months ago in the interest of 'advance scouting' for my 335 replacement. Nice car, Very nice actually. MB Tex not leather which I still cannot wrap my mind around at that price level. Still felt just sporty enough especially when in the sport mode.

Problem is I much prefer the 14's to the 15's in terms of styling. The 15's pick up the S Class styling elements particularly on the rear end and it just doesn't do it for me. Maybe it will grow on my, I don't know.

Probably doesn't matter as an E or 5 Series is a bit larger than I need not to mention more expensive although there are some smokin' lease deals on 14 E's right now.

fintail

They aren't bad at all, but the lease specials aren't exactly loaded. You'll get Tex, no nav, etc. But build quality will be meticulous, and the design has aged well.

stickguy said:

dang, maybe I should stop at the MB dealer. If it isn't much more than an Accord, why not?

Ah, the siren song of leasing. it's always "just a few $ more per month"

I have never driven one, but I do like the way the outgoing C class looks. especially in dark blue.

nyccarguy

@au1994‌

My parents were MB shopping a few months back (for an ML). At the time, there were only 3 or 4 MLs in the country with the color combination/options they wanted. The biggest obstacle the dealer said was finding one with leather. He told them that most "lower" & "mid-priced" MBs (C, E, ML, GLK, CLA, SLK) were ordered with MB text to keep lease costs down. Since it is something like a $2500 option, that factors majorly into the price of a lease.

fintail

2015 E is identical to 2014 E, only a few minor differences - some option bundling, and the US model FINALLY gets power folding mirrors. The C is the brand new model, and it is indeed all new and can be loaded up like a baby S-class. No lease deals on those yet, demand is high.

My lease is up in just a few months, if I do it again, I'll probably pull forward and have another car by Christmas. I kind of wanted to try a C, but I like the diesel, and if I lease again, it is all about MSRP vs payment - the E now being the oldest sedan in the MB fleet, it will be the best value in those terms.

au1994 said:

I test drove a 2014 E Class a few months ago in the interest of 'advance scouting' for my 335 replacement.

Probably doesn't matter as an E or 5 Series is a bit larger than I need not to mention more expensive although there are some smokin' lease deals on 14 E's right now.

Mr_Shiftright

Some luxury brands are pretty severe on depreciation---Bentley comes to mind.

stickguy

Well, I would be fine with Tex, and I am not worried about a Nav built in. so right up my alley!

stever

Did you shop for an EV but ultimately decided not to buy one? A reporter wants to learn more about what went into your decision. If you'd like to help, please contact pr@edmunds.com by no later than October 25, 2014.

au1994

fintail said:

2015 E is identical to 2014 E, only a few minor differences - some option bundling, and the US model FINALLY gets power folding mirrors. The C is the brand new model, and it is indeed all new and can be loaded up like a baby S-class. No lease deals on those yet, demand is high.

My lease is up in just a few months, if I do it again, I'll probably pull forward and have another car by Christmas. I kind of wanted to try a C, but I like the diesel, and if I lease again, it is all about MSRP vs payment - the E now being the oldest sedan in the MB fleet, it will be the best value in those terms.

au1994 said:

I test drove a 2014 E Class a few months ago in the interest of 'advance scouting' for my 335 replacement.

Probably doesn't matter as an E or 5 Series is a bit larger than I need not to mention more expensive although there are some smokin' lease deals on 14 E's right now.

Thanks. I guess my searches were pulling up incorrect info and pics. Shocked that you can find bad information on the internet still.

Like you, I will get a pull ahead offer from BMW as the date moves closer and I really love the brand and most of the models so it may be difficult to pull me from the Roundel anyway.

stickguy

I officially decided to pass on trying to snag a leftover 2014 deal. Mostly because I really don't need the extra car for about 3 months (early January when my Daughter in theory is taking one back to college with her). So, no need to spend cash, make payments, up the insurance (saved a nice $500 or so dropping the extra car last month!). Plus of course, by waiting until then, I will have a clearer idea of exactly what makes sense to get, and what the budget is.

besides, the Xmas to New Years blow outs tend to be good too. and if I go new, will get a 2015.

starting to think more that I am going to get something used though. Maybe in the 2006-2007 range for $7K +/-, if it is just going to be my car (though could also be an upgrade to send to college). Probably makes more fiscal sense than getting a brand new one!

stickguy

I gave a weird fascination now with getting something fancier, and have temporarily become obsessed with a used hyundai Azera. Need to go drive one. But from listings seems like it can very a good " car for the money" option.

I think I have gotten spoiled driving the Acura all the time.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

I gave a weird fascination now with getting something fancier, and have temporarily become obsessed with a used hyundai Azera. Need to go drive one. But from listings seems like it can very a good " car for the money" option.

I think I have gotten spoiled driving the Acura all the time.

At the end of our last lease, I was looking at the 2011 E350 diesel, as I could lease one for under $500/mo, for just 24 months.. There weren't any left at our local dealership, so we test drove an E350 AWD gas model.. Really, really nice, but it's a pretty big car, if you are used to the 3-Series size.. My wife had issues with size and being "that lady that drives the Mercedes", so we passed on it (plus, diesel and RWD.. so, lots of objections to overcome.).

Agree on not leasing now, if you don't need the car until January.. there are always new deals coming down the pike. If it's something nice for you, might be able to get a CC with a stick in the $325/mo. range, come the holiday season..

nyccarguy

@Mr_Shiftright‌

I have a customer whose Dad actually got rid of a Bentley Continental Super Sports (after 2 years) for that exact reason. He didn't want the car to loose any more value than it already had. What did he get to replace the Bentley? A Cayenne Turbo S and an Acura MDX (nothing like spending $50K on an SUV so you don't put too many miles on your $150K SUV. Well, 6 months into Cayenne Turbo S ownership, he decided he didn't "need" 2 SUVs. So he traded his Cayenne Turbo S in for a used Ferrari California. BTW, he's one of these guys that's "afraid" to drive the Ferrari pretty much anywhere he can't see it the entire time he's not driving it so it sits in the garage and he drives the MDX pretty much all the time.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you know what they say about "boys and their toys". The Cayenne should hold value pretty well, but the Ferrari will take a loss. The trick with Ferraris to minimize depreciation is to keep the miles ridiculously low and to have a maintenance folder prepared for the next buyer.

ab348

stickguy said:

I gave a weird fascination now with getting something fancier, and have temporarily become obsessed with a used hyundai Azera. Need to go drive one. But from listings seems like it can very a good " car for the money" option.

I think I have gotten spoiled driving the Acura all the time.

Good god man, snap out of it! An AZERA?!? Have you been out in the sun for too long?

The original Azera was atrocious. They gave it a year off and brought back the new model. If you are looking at the original go over it VERY carefully, especially in the suspension and front end. They are notoriously bad in those areas.

ab348

fintail said:

Canadian prices are higher, but Canadian cars, E-class at least, get more standard equipment (lighting, leather, folding mirrors, maybe parktronic). The US market gets a loss leader low MSRP car for the leasing game. I am certain a minority of US E-class have leather.

All true. but I can't help but think my local market overprices these czars. Look at this example:

http://www.oregans.com/used-vehicles/2013-Mercedes-Benz-E350-E350-4MATIC-AWD-LUXURY-SEDAN-38561/#lightbox

They will take $52K CDN they say but despite the pano roof it seems to have a Tex interior (in black unfortunately) and could use a set of AMG style wheels. I think it is way overpriced.

Or this one, even lower miles and with leather, but just a regular sunroof, just $59K!

http://www.oregans.com/used-vehicles/2013-Mercedes-Benz-E350-4MATIC-AWD-LUXURY-SEDAN-35257/#lightbox

js06gv

ab348 said:

js06gv said:

Same way on the 2014 with respect to the leather, have to move up to a GT Premium to get it. At least that was the case when I bought my 2011.

Not according to the Ford Canada site. Just checked again, leather standard on the 2014 GT base.

Ah, I didn't catch the Canada part. I just looked too (first time on that site) and saw that there was no separate base and premium GT in 2014, just a regular GT. Best I can tell, what Canada simply calls a GT is equipped similarly to what a premium is in the states, meaning you get standard leather in addition to some other things like Sync. I guess in 2015, they are breaking the GT out into two separate models like Ford does in the US.

fintail

I've seen "stories" about the 2017 E-class that show a pic of a current C-class as a "prototype", it happens. The current E has a couple model years left.

I'd consider a 328d wagon.

au1994 said:

Thanks. I guess my searches were pulling up incorrect info and pics. Shocked that you can find bad information on the internet still.

Like you, I will get a pull ahead offer from BMW as the date moves closer and I really love the brand and most of the models so it may be difficult to pull me from the Roundel anyway.

fintail

Funny, as those would be in the lower 40s in the US, at most.

I like the first car - it is indeed a leather car, and fairly well equipped - it has P2. Boring colors, but the mass market is boring, and Germans adore black interiors.

Speaking of the leather, the standard leather in most highline cars, MB included, isn't amazing. It is nice and smells good, but you have to pony up the $$ and get nappa if you want something really plush. My old E55 had it, and there's a big difference. I am just as happy with Tex.

That's another problem, finding a loaded Bluetec car. Diesel people are cheapskates, I guess. I have seen very few pano/parktronic/P2 Bluetecs like mine. If I am spending this kind of money, I want some toys.

ab348 said:

All true. but I can't help but think my local market overprices these czars. Look at this example:

corvette

Funny how a change in living situation can change your priorities. My commute is about 2 miles now and I no longer travel very much for work. Since I don't have a garage at the new place, I was just thinking how nice it would be to have a remote starter come winter time!

That's not going to happen anytime soon--I can only imagine the problems it could create with the keyless access system on the GLI.

ab348

I like the colors that Mercedes offers. Unlike some other manufacturers they give you some choice. I see in Canada they were offering a brown earlier in the 2014 model year on the E class which looked good (I saw it one the lot locally, car sold quickly) which they replaced with what appears to be a muted red. Plus they have a couple of blues, plus Diamond Silver (the color of the used 2013 I linked to) which is really a light metallic blue. I like their grey shades also. If I was ordering I might go for Palladium silver which is really a light gray metallic that I like.

I find it interesting that they use a different color palette on the CLA/GLA models. Because those are entry-level vehicles I wonder if the paint is not of the same quality.

stickguy

was out running errands this evening, so stopped at a local used car mega store. They claim to specialize in off lease stuff. Everything is nice and clean, detailed to the max, and the place is very classy and low key. But man, the prices. They are supposed to be a no-negotiation place, and they must sell a lot of cars based on inventory and facilities, but I swear everything is a good 10% overpriced. they had a camry that was less equipped and more miles than a same year one at the Toyota dealer, for more money.

anyway, they had a C class in the showroom. a 2012 C300 sport. white over tan. Not big inside, seemed nice. Did not care for the staggered wheel set up. I'm sure you need to budget quite a bit for tires, since it had 21K on it and fresh rubber already, which probably cost a bit.

nothing else on the lot or in showroom that I saw and said "wow, I need to get one of these"

jayrider

corvette said:

Funny how a change in living situation can change your priorities. My commute is about 2 miles now and I no longer travel very much for work. Since I don't have a garage at the new place, I was just thinking how nice it would be to have a remote starter come winter time!

That's not going to happen anytime soon--I can only imagine the problems it could create with the keyless access system on the GLI.

Get an engine block heater.

corvette

jayrider said:

Get an engine block heater.

Not really worth the effort in Kentucky (even the frozen tundra in the north-ish part of the state), plus there isn't an electrical outlet nearby. And it's a rental house.

kyfdx

corvette said:

jayrider said:

Get an engine block heater.

Not really worth the effort in Kentucky (even the frozen tundra in the north-ish part of the state), plus there isn't an electrical outlet nearby. And it's a rental house.

Frozen tundra?

nyccarguy

Stick - a bit out of your price range, but who knows how negotiable they are:

Roslyn, NY (Long island)
2011 E350 4Matic CPO
Palladium Silver/Black MB Text
AMG Sport Package - 19,486 Miles

$29,800

stickguy

If you can convince them to knock $17,000 off asking, it will be in my range.

Get working on that please.

qbrozen

CLA or GLA AMG, no?


whoops. just saw the msrp starts at over $48k. yikes!

edit: man, this business of being able to reply at the bottom of each page really messes me up sometimes. I was replying to the post about 3 pages back asking for comps to an S3... although y'all probably figured that out.

qbrozen

I think I'm good on the CCBA front for a while. Unless the Volvo becomes a problem. I would imagine I may look into trading the Stang on a Tesla 3 when/if that comes to fruition at Elon's target price. Based on his history, it won't, but since he's now been doing this for a while, I would hope he's got a better handle on the costs and will be close to accurate. We'll see.

laurasdada

Good episode of Chasing Classic Cars last night. Brought me back to the absolutely lovely Greenwich Concours d'Elegance as the show was about Wayne prepping the Fitch Phoenix for auction at the Greenwich Bonhams. As well as being about the man, John Fitch, himself.

Shots from the auction, alas once again, I missed my 15 minutes as I didn't see myself...peering in the plastic windows of the auction tent. Couldn't afford the $40 entry fee day of auction. And, obviously, nor the Fitch Phoenix! There were "affordable" cars there, notably a really nice looking Ferrari 328GTSi, went for $55k iirc.

nyccarguy

@stickguy‌

I'm pretty sure you are going to be extremely happy with the Volvo once you replace those leaking struts. I took advantage of today's warm weather and jumped in the Prelude this AM. Oh how I just adore it. It felt a bit snug at first since I've been driving the generously spaced Legacy for about 3 weeks, I just love how solid and planted the new suspension is.

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

I just love how solid and planted the new suspension is.

Sweet. Color me COMPLETELY unsurprised by this.

I told you: New car!

stickguy

It goes in for surgery tonight. With any luck by tomorrow night I will know if the operation was worth the cost.

jpp75

qbrozen said:

I think I'm good on the CCBA front for a while. Unless the Volvo becomes a problem. I would imagine I may look into trading the Stang on a Tesla 3 when/if that comes to fruition at Elon's target price. Based on his history, it won't, but since he's now been doing this for a while, I would hope he's got a better handle on the costs and will be close to accurate. We'll see.

I'm definitely interested in the Tesla 3, but like you say I'm not optimistic on the cost and time frame. I'm trying to make do with the Fusion for the next 20 months. I definitely regret leasing it, but the high depreciation will likely keep me out of the CCBA business for a while though. Lesson learned....

qbrozen

really? what don't you like about it.

stickguy

After looking around and getting frustrated, I am thinking more that at end of year my car will be a cheap lease for me. The used car market is odd. Newer stuff at dealers for premium prices, or old miled up junk for less.

So if not a lease, something in the 7-8 YO range. If can find something clean enough for not crazy bucks!

And dang, CL seems to have gone deep into junker territory. Almost nothing newer than around 2007, and most stuff much older.

jpp75

qbrozen said:

really? what don't you like about it.

I just don't enjoy driving it. I do like the electric only aspect of it and am in EV mode 95% of the time around town, but the general driving dynamics are way too soft and it just feels like a huge car. I bought it for the electric portion, but now I'm realizing that wasn't really a good reason to buy the whole car.

I had driven several gas Fusions as rentals, so I shouldn't be so surprised with the drive, but what's OK for a 2 or 3 day business trip just isn't appealing for a daily driver.

qbrozen

put some lowering springs on it.

I know its a lease, but the few hundred bucks would be well spent if you hate it a bit less for the next 20 mos.