Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

guss

The problem is I would only have 1 year powertrain warranty on the Benz, and if something goes haywire the second year like a tranny, I'd be hooped whereas on the Civic I know I have 99% reliability.

What does it matter. At your pace of one per year you will be trading out of it anyway.

Like others have said , not for the base model with (gulp) hubcaps.

rprossil

Nice as it may be to drive and look at, you'll be writing a lot of your own maintenance history with a 5yr old / 90k mile MB that is out of warranty. I tried that with a low mile, 2 year old Volvo for my wife 3 years ago - the maintenance adds up very quickly, and the out of warranty stuff that comes up can drive you crazy - like $700 for a broken ignition switch and $500 to replace the tailgate latch assembly. I'm now back to newer Asian brands (currently Honda and Nissan). Good luck.

m1miata

On this Mercedes model, I would take note of repair costs. If they are correct here then the car is pretty expensive to keep. Just look into suspension replacement, and transmission repairs - other big ticket stuff and see if you can afford these repairs.

The SLK is the most reliable of the Mercedes and costs less to repair.

sandman46

I'm happy with my '06 Civic and it does just what I intended it to do when I purchased it. It's my commuter car & weekend grocery hauler. Also my 3 college kids love the size & fun factor...they think it's cool! At my age, I no longer have the time or patience to deal with a car with any drama, thus the reason I got rid of my '03 Sentra. Also, with 3 in college & retirement coming within 8 years, the extra expenditures of $ can now be put away for the future.
I must agree though, that the MB would be a neat car to have for awhile, but after the 1st major $ repair, you'll probaly be kicking yourself you know where.
Just the opinion of your average early 50ish car guy.

The Sandman

woodyww

I was skeptical before, but the 90K miles on the Benz makes it sounds like a really, really bad deal for you. I'm guessing they might be way overcharging you on the Benz--a 5 y.o. 240 with 90K miles is worth what?--$10K US? (A wild guess).

There's a place near me with a 2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon w/56,249 miles for $17.5K. Looks really nice & pretty loaded (I think--I haven't researched M-B options recently). I've almost considered it myself, but I'm too chicken to take on a M-B w/no warranty. Man it looks nice tho! Silver/black, looks way sexier than my bmw e-39 black wagon.

If you truly want a used Benz, take your time, do more research on them, get a primo, low-to-moderate mileage one with service records "up-the-wazoo"......& don't overpay.

just my 2 cents, woody

zodiac2004

Also my 1 year old Civic has 39000km, (26000 miles), and the Benz has a 147000kms (90000 miles).

You made me eat my words here...
Especially if the Civic is an '06.
No question the C240 is NOT worth $100 more a month.

boomchek

My Civic is an 05. The deal is that I'm paying $500 over our cost. We took it in on a trade for $12500CDN, I'm getting it for $13000CDN.

derrado1

I suppose black would take the edge out of that horrible front.

I try and look at it, warm to it, but I can't. It's unbelievably ugly. And I find it bizarre that Inside Line glazed straight over it in the review, especially considering how (spare tyre aside) attractive the RAV4 is. Now that's a car that doesn't get old looking at.

anonymousposts

We've driven 3 fairly low mileage C-Class sedans and 2 of the 3 developed some type of warning light while driving it. The third one was fine but we only had a week and it only had 20,000 miles. 2001 was the first year for that generation so it would be even more trouble-prone than the later models. Additionally, the C-Class is one of the few cars where owners on Edmunds say "Don't Buy This Car". The later models seem better but why trade a 29,000 mile Civic for a 5 YO Benz with 90,000 miles? If it's just for the Benz name then it's money wasted IMO.

woodyww

I knew someone who had leased a new early-2000's M-B E-class. She told me that there was some sort of eternal problem with a warning light, that the local dealer couldn't fix, but finally Mercedes bought her out of her lease.

I dunno what happened to M-B? Up until maybe '95, even tho they were expensive to buy & maintain, the cars had a rep. for being "bullet proof", & for going 200K miles or whatever..... In '96 (I think) they replaced the venerable I-6 with a V6.

10-15 years ago, I'd sometimes encounter someone with an aging 240D, with no real problems, other than the cost of replacement parts.....

graphicguy

eh... i'm sorry to admit its not all i hoped it would be. I miss RWD.

Uh....Oh....Q.....you're going through the exact thought process I went through on my TL. I see a BMW in your future.

qbrozen

I'd love a 335.

but, no, unless the offerings change by the time my wife's lease is up (which i hope they will), my current plan is to get her into an R320cdi. Since payments on that would be through the roof, I'd be looking at something very used and very cheap for myself that we could buy with cash.

We'll see what happens in the next 22 months. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that DC will see their way clear to offering a diesel pacifica.

graphicguy

q....from everything I've read, DC is going diesel in a big way in North America.

I got to drive a 335i this past weekend at my dealer. Not much different than my 330i except for the rear end styling. Interirior is pretty much the same.

Of course, the real difference is under the hood. BMW did a very nice job on the engine. Little turbo lag. Very nice low end torque and upper rev punch.

But, as my dealer said, equipped "like for like" compared to my 330i....the price I'd have to pay would be about a $4K+ swing, adding in the price increase and the lack of discounts on the 335i. He had the one I test drove sold before I pulled out of the dealership parking lot.

Is it worth a $4K swing? It might be for some. Not something I would want to do, though. Maybe as they become more plentiful, and the discounting begins, that gap might close a bit, though. I don't see that happening for another several months, however....if at all.

qbrozen

lack of discounts will change, though. Besides, without a 330 in the lineup anymore, what choice would a buyer have once all the existing 330s are sold?

$4k actually doesn't sound that bad when you are talking about one model year difference AND the added power.

growwise

Another reason not to pick a fight with your Ex:


Rest here

british_rover

I think woody was asking about the Z4 I had.

It has the convience package, heated seats and premium package.

It is this kind of gray metallic color but I don't remember the name of it. Original MSRP was around 45,000.

kyfdx

Probably Sterling Gray on a Z4...

stickguy

I need to move to Europe. They have neater cars.

I really like the Volvo V50, and for smoe reasn the Punto. Even the Auris(?) (new Toyota Corolla) looks neat, although it appears the took the rear end of a Versa and stuck on the nose from a Yaris.

qbrozen

??
you know the V50 is sold here in the states, too, right?

stickguy

I meant to write XC50. I have seen (and like) the V50, but the XC looks like it will give a bit more room. Plus I like the way it looks.

Probably about the difference between an Imprezza wagon and a Forrester.

What I actually want to see is the C30. I loved the P1800ES when I was a kid (spent a lot of time at the dealership when out 144 was in getting fixed), and think the C30 looks sweet.

Of course, I may need some help explaining to the wife how I can justify getting a small 2 door hatch, when I just got rid of my tC because it was a small 2 door hatch...

Maybe when my son goes off to college and I don't need as much room (assuming he is nice enough to get a scholorship, so I can blow his college fund on a car for me!!!)

qbrozen

I THINK the c30 will be larger than a tC. I could be wrong. But, if it is, there's your excuse.

woodyww

I've figured up the probable depreciation on my 2000 528i that I bought CPO......about $20K over 4 years, & that's if I sell it privately. (It's kind of depressing actually).

So $4k to trade for a year newer bmw doesn't sound bad at all. Are there any options or color changes you'd make if you did the trade? That might decide it for me, if you don't have Xenons now, or SPP, or whatever, & really wish you had it.

The depreciation is probably gonna kill you (or me, us) one way or another. At least for expensive Euro-vehicles. But if you could trade a new 3-series every year for a newer one, at $4K, even $5K per year, it'd cost you $16-$20K over 4 years. A new 3-series is probably gonna depreciate 50% if you keep it for 4 years.

Anyway, I'm suprised they'll do the deal for "only" $4K-ish....it sounds like a good deal to my demented brain.

gee35coupe

Getting to drive the best of RWD German models without having to wrry about maintenance or depreciation is worth more than the actual dollar amount of her raise. I see why people love a nice Benz now. While the steering seems to be totally devoid of feel, you can feel the longer travel in the suspension soaking up the bumps. And thats only in the C-calss. I can't wait to get to drive an E and an S.

I'm expecting the Bimmers to feel more like my Hondas in the steering department. But it's harder to find a Bimmer to drive since I'm waiting for a manual transmissioned one. I'm waiting to get the full experience.

I'm also looking forward to driving the new Jettas and GTI.

stickguy

drives very nice. I assume the GLI/GTI is even sharper with the stiffer suspension and bigger wheels.

I almost got the Jetta 2.0T instead of the Accord. Ended up not quite trusting it, and when combined with the ~5K difference in real world cost, it wasn't worth it. It was nice though, great engine and seats.

A new GTI 4 door really could be interesting, and would certainly be more unique than the silver Accord I currently drive! Although with a teenage son hitting driving age next year, a 1985 Buick might be a better idea.

stickguy

Turns out that my insurance company believes in enabling CCB habits. I finally asked how much it was going to cost to add the kid (it will probably be cheaper to move instead), and after getting over the shock, I asked how much to add a 3rd car also (figuring it would be even more ridiculous).

Well, it came out to be less to add him and a car than to just add him, due to the arcane rules about assigning drivers. This assumes the 3rd car would be older, without comp or collision. Doesn't matter what he drives, as long as they can assign him to a cheap car.

So, i could buy a non-running POJ, and just park it next to the garage, but as long as I kept it registered/insured, I would save money!

At least now there won't be any question about getting him a car at 17 (since I don't want him driving mine!) Can't wait to start shopping.

michaellno

Oh, boy ... teens and driving. What fun.

Here's how we did it with my stepkids ... we acquired the car and the kid was responsible for gas and insurance. We picked up the maintenance and acquisition costs.

FYI, the insurance for our inherited 1992 Subaru Legacy Wagon (no collision) is just over $200 for 6 months. As mentioned before, we're gonna keep it, fix it up and give it to my son next summer when he graduates from HS.

corvette

Passport BMW in Maryland seems to discount new models, if you don't mind buying waaay out of town...

corvette

The BMW should have firmer steering than Honda/Acura. Very responsive and good feedback, much like the Honda/Acura.

State Farm's adjuster is coming out to look at my car tomorrow. I know I'm difficult to please, but I know the repair can be done better than mine was.

kyfdx

Isn't your son about 12-yrs-old?

Mine turns 13 in January... I'm not ready for news about possible insurance rate questions.. :surprise:

cccompson

What insurance company do you have, stickguy?

Nationwide went to rating kids on all of the cars on the policy a few years back and I'm getting bled on the '06 Mustang GT I just picked up although my 16 year old daughter will never drive it.

stickguy

is 15.5, so he can start actually driving next summer. I have not shopped other agencies (with Libert now), but the already ridiculous insurance will well more than double if we add him. I would much rather take acquisition and maintenance on anything short of an old BMW 750, as it will be cheaper than the insurance.

We will save about $500 by adding a normal, mid-90's+ car, with liability only, since they can assign him to that car. So, 3 cars + 3 drivers will be cheaper than 3 drivers + 2 cars.

I did get a quote from Geico, which came out to be about $470/yr cheaper, as we stand now (no kid), but I have not called them yet to find out what happens next year.

One saving grace is that most companies don't start charging you until they have a license that allows them to drive alone, so no extra charge until he hits 17 and gets a full one!

kyfdx

Ahhh... okay..

I figure once mine starts driving, we'll all have $500 beaters... :surprise:

jlawrence01

Nationwide went to rating kids on all of the cars on the policy a few years back and I'm getting bled on the '06 Mustang GT I just picked up although my 16 year old daughter will never drive it.

My brother worked with his State Farm agent on a policy that would cover his teenage daughter on an 8 yo Ford Escort ONLY. He also has a Mustang that she will never drive. Of course, teh Escort isthe ONLY car she is covered on BUT the insurance is much cheaper.

graphicguy

woody....you maybe right.....'06 330i vs '07 335i and the $4K+ difference. But, I'm very pleased with my 330i. The 335i isn't compelling enough for me to even consider a swap.

Once you get into that low-mid $40K range, a whole other range of cars come into play....MB E350...Infiniti M45 (w/ V8 power)....Audi 4.2 Q....etc.

kyfdx....good luck with that "teen insurance" thing. At 16, adding my son to my policy tripled the cost of my policy. At 17, he had a chargeable wreck. That quadrupled my rate.

It's just now starting to come back down. But, it's still twice as much as it would cost with just me on my policy.

michaellno

Ouch! 3x and 4x costs on insurance?

When we bought the ION for our daughter to take to college, the monthly insurance cost was $155.

kyfdx

I only pay $1500/yr. now for both cars... I pretty much expect it to at least double, even if we don't add a car.. With the new teen licensing laws in KY, I can't see getting him car until he is 17..

I've got a little over three years to save up... I wonder if I can stomach Old Milwaukee...

michaellno

Hmmm, went back to look at our insurance costs.

The L costs us $766 a year; the VUE is just under $900.

However, State Farm just announced earlier this week that the rates in CO will be cut by an average of 7.5%, since the state went from no-fault to tort a few years ago.

So, I'll save about $150 a year for the vehicles that I pay for; the ION, which the daughter covers, should drop about the same annually.

Don't know what our son pays for insurance on his L, since he lives in Utah now.

I do remember having a conversation with our insurance agent before my son turned 16 (4 years ago) who specifically recommended Saturn 4-doors for teenagers as they are about the cheapest vehicles to insure for teenagers.

However, as always, YMMV.

OTOH, my (biological) son in CA will not get his license until he is 18 (next June) - just before I take the Subaru out to him as a graduation present. Providing, of course, that he actually graduates.

woodyww

Good article in the 10/22 NY Times comparing the Mazda CX-7, & Acura RDX. I'm pretty sure you can access it online for free, altho you may have to "register".

They really liked the RDX, & thought the handling and performance superior to the CX-7. Altho they thought the CX-7 a "good value" if you got the base 4wd model for $26K-ish.

Wish they had added the new RAV4 to the comparison.....&/or the new CR-V. Maybe one of the auto mags will have a comparison test, or edmunds?

graphicguy

michaell....big difference in insuring a male teen vs a female teen. Between 16-18, my son had a chargeable wreck and a speeding ticket. Courts wouldn't lift his license, but I could, and did. I had to sign a "Waiver" that my son wouldn't drive my cars in order for them to let me take him off the policy. After a year of him having his license lifted by "court of Dad", I let him drive again. Problem there regarding insurance was the fact that he had a break in coverage. That was my fault. I didn't realize that made a difference. I think that's why his policy cost so much.

ky.....hindsight being 20-20, I think I might wait until my son turned 17 or 18 before I let him get his license.

michaellno

Yep, I fully understand .. after 5 weeks of holding his license, my son was involved in an accident that State Farm ultimately paid $37K on .. he was charged with a couple of felonies. You can bet that the insurance rate was affected by that!

stickguy

what my agent said was that at 16, just on a permit (although they will likely change the rule to not hit the rate until he gets a licenses), out insurance with 2 2005 Hondas would go from 1,800ish to 4,600. But, if we add a 1996 Civic, liability only, the total policy would be only 4,100.

I have since talked to Geico, and can get insurance right now for less than 1,400, and next year when he gets the permit it will only go up to about 1,800. No idea what happens when he gets a full license.

At least I will never have 2 teens at the same time.

akangl

Mine turns 13 in January... I'm not ready for news about possible insurance rate questions..

Me either, mine turns 13 in May and he's already asking to drive. He can get his permit at 14 and he's counting down the months. Makes me GLAD I sold the Sebring!!!!

Our insurance is about $2300 for 6 months, that's 2 new trucks full coverage and the 97 Ford running liability and comprehensive. I can't imagine what it would be with a teenage driver!!!

graphicguy

michaell....wow....your son was charged with a couple of felonies for his accident? Hopefully, everything turned out alright. I'm kind of surprised your insurance company didn't drop his coverage.

stickguy....sounds like youy're experiencing the same rate inflation I did when I added my son....and his subsequent "driving infractions".

When my son first got his license, all I had were sports cars. That made a huge difference in my policy. Since then, I've stuck to 4-door vehicles. That helped somewhat.

But, going to some of the on-line insurance sites, I found there was a big difference in rates from company to company. In general, the brick and mortar insurance companies (like state farm) were much higher. I settled on 21st Century. In the last 3 years, we haven't had any blemishes on his or my driving records. My rates went from ~$5K/year to less than $2K/year after the points expired on my son's driving record. I expect it to drop again after my son turns 21 next year. But, by that time, he'll be on his own and totally off my policy. That should put my rates somewhere in the $600-$800/year range just for coverage on me (and will tempt me to go back to sports car driving).

lilengineerboy

Wow, if I had any infractions on my driving record I would've gotten privileges taken away faster than, eh a speeding bullet (or ticket, as the case may be). I also bought my first car myself, and was responsible for the maintenance. I think that made me more careful knowing if I dropped the clutch, I would be replacing it and the tires at some point.

andre1969

my stepdad made me get a policy in my own name. So any tickets I got would've only affected me and not my Mom & stepdad.

I still remember that first year, 1/87 to 1/88. The premium was $1361 for liability-only insurance on a 1980 Malibu coupe.

kyfdx

I had a new car in 1977, when I was a teenager.. 48 payments at $109.33 per month...

I came close to losing my license, and let my insurance lapse.... The price for one year of minimum liability coverage? $1350. This was 30 years ago.. :surprise:

The insurance would have been higher than the payment... for a new car.

jlawrence01

My first car - at age 22 after college - was an '80 Chevette that was about to be repo'd from a lady in Dayton who lost her job in the 1982 recession.

$128/ mo for 36 month with good old Southern Ohio Bank ...

Insurance was about $900/ yr.

I still have the paperwork on my desk at home as I can't get up the nerve to toss it.

kyfdx

What is is with GM and the "features" that they seem compelled to advertise in chrome on the rear of their cars?

One of the first that I noticed was ABS on Cavaliers that were equipped with anti-lock brakes... this was five years after it was standard equipment on most models.

Today.. I'm behind some sort of Pontiac mini-van (Montana, maybe) that has TRACTION CONTROL in chrome letters on the rear of the vehicle. Woooo--Hooooo!!!!

If it were in the showroom, and it was a vinyl sticker on the side of the car, it would make sense, I guess... but, as a permanent part of your car? They need some marketing help..

Rocket V-8? That's cool... my car can really go fast... Traction control? Hey, buddy.... if my right front tire starts to spin, my car will shift power to the left front wheel, or maybe even apply the brakes!! Eat that!! :surprise:

corvette

One of the first that I noticed was ABS on Cavaliers that were equipped with anti-lock brakes... this was five years after it was standard equipment on most models.

And then they made it standard on the Cav/Sunfire in 1996, but it went back to being optional in 2001 or 02. It's still optional on the Cobalt today.

Ford used to put small "ABS" stickers in the driver's window of the dearly departed Taurus on the models that were so equipped. That's easier than opening the hood to look for the ABS pump.

lilengineerboy

GM did a safety for everybody thing in the early 90s. This was well before it was standard on most models. They decided people would rather have a CD player than ABS.