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I just filled up my wifes VUE on Monday night ... her mpg for the tank was just under 23 (EPA is 19/25). This is with the 250HP Honda 3.5 V6. Paid $1.989 per gallon.
However, I do agree with kyfdx on not going back to anything under 20MPG.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Is this for combined mileage or just highway only? I've been averaging 24-26MPG in my L300 (182HP V6) with a 4-speed automatic. The VUE has the 5-speed auto.
Ya gotta realize that I'm being REALLY strict right now. I'm basing most of my hopes and dreams on mercedes diesels.
R320 = 6 passenger 2.5 tons @ 25-26 combined mpg
E320 = big sedan (well, midsize, i suppose) @ 34-35 mpg.
anyway, i figure EVERYONE should be doing as well now or in the very near future. If Benz can do that with the E320, then a normal midsize family sedan should be getting close to 40 mpg combined, IMHO.
By the way, I'm currently getting ~27 in my Accord and we get ~18 in my wife's Pacifica. I won't be happy with anything less than 24 mpg in her replacement vehicle (which would still be a 3-row SUV, according to her) and over 30 mpg in mine (although I may forego a new vehicle next time around, in which case the mileage won't factor in so much).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
When I was evaluating the different vehicles for both mine and my wife's purchases, I calculated the MPG for comparison purposes to be 2 less than the EPA highway value. Most of our commute driving is either on interstates (me) or 55-60 MPH 2 lane roads (her), with some stop-and-go driving thrown in.
While I like the Benz diesel, I can't afford the asking price of $52K before options. I'll be lucky if the budget for my next new car will be $30K, and even that will probably be 3 or 4 years down the road.
Do the Accord and Pacifica both take regular unleaded?
Well... they both take it, but mid-grade is suggested on the Pac. We've tried both over extended periods and noticed absolutely no difference, so we use regular.
Oh, believe me, I hear ya on the Benz price. And its exactly why my next car might not be new. I'm seriously considering getting my wife into the R320cdi ($57k when optioned the way we'd want it) and getting a cheap beater for myself. That is if we are still both commuting together and I don't change my mind in 22 months when her Pac goes back to Chrysler.
I'm not sure what the advantages to such a plan are financially. I mean, there are probably NONE. But this would be in anticipation of actually keeping the Benz for 10 years, which I've never even come close to with any daily driver (my volvo was the longest at 4 years). So if we pay it off in 5, then maybe I get a real nice car for myself to last 10 years (yeah, right!).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As the weather starts to get nasty around here, I expect I'll be using my Mother's Caddy AWD machine. Surprisingly, on the highway, It gets about 28 MPG...with a V8, no less.
In SW OH gas prices have been hovering between $1.95 to $2.05 (Costco) for the last several weeks. I was thinking I might keep the 4Runner because of that. But, I really need to thin out the vehicle heard in my garage and driveway.
A business colleague just bought a Prius. He's in CA and it allows him to use the HOF lanes, and speeds up his commute considerably. He says he's not getting anywhere near the MPG that's advertised, but he's still getting substantially better MPG than the Lexus ES he traded in.
I don't ever think that the consumer will ever get tired of trucks in this country. I've always believed that hybrid technology would affect sales of SUVs and trucks more than it would with cars. Yet, I don't see a big move by anyone to "hybridize" their big trucks and SUVs.
As good as diesels have become, the U.S. has been so resistant to diesels, I don't know if they'll ever catch on (particularly given how oil companies insist on charging more for diesel fuel than regular fuel).
I don't know, either. But as long as they become available long enough for me to grab a couple ...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Some models that I really like (the Subaru Legacy 2.5GT comes to mind) require the use of premium (89 octane here in CO), which seems to be a needless expense since so many competing cars make similar HP but only need regular.
Yeah, the difference is only something like $.20 a gallon or $3 a fillup (assuming a 15 gallon tank), but why pay it if you don't really get any sort of benefit from it?
In fact, when looking for the wife's car, we considered an Outback XT - so much so that we took a test drive and were very impressed - but when the wife found out it takes premium, it was immediately crossed off the list.
Am I crazy or do others here think the same thing?
My bmw 5-series gets around 18mpg around town, & up to 23 hwy. Not stellar I guess, but given the safety, luxury, the fact that it's a wagon so I can haul stuff, it seems fine to me.
My previous vehicle was a Range Rover. Watching the gas gauge drop, & then buying gas, was truly depressing.....it got between 10.8 & 12 mpg around town, & 15 hwy.....so now the bmw mileage seems great.
The other thing I'd say, like to michaell, is: Within reason, I wouldn't let mileage or need for premium gas totally dictate your decisions. Car shopping is too difficult, & there are always going to be things you don't like with any vehicle. The Subaru sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Personally, I wouldn't get something you like less just because the Subie takes premium.
Its kind of like when I traded my Z on the Lincoln. Here I had a V6 with 280+ hp that required premium. I got into a V8 with 280 hp that ... also required premium? I couldn't help but think ... why?? Bigger engine, same horsepower, so shouldn't the octane requirement go DOWN??
anyhooo... I suppose if a car was really good on gas. I mean, enough to counteract the added expense of premium, I wouldn't mind. But, currently, that doesn't happen.
By the way, the difference has gone up considerable. At least it was up the last time I checked. Instead of 10 cents more to go from regular to mid-grade, and another 10 to go to premium, it was 20 and 20. So about 20% additional charge by today's $2/gallon standards.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yeah, right! In 22 months you'll probably come up with a discard 50 different plans for the next car or cars that you buy or lease.
At least, that's what keeps this forum going. Helping others decide on their needs and wants and helping them spend their money.
I've occasionally thought about a VW diesel. A guy who used to live across the street from me had a Jetta diesel - with an automatic, no less! - and said that he got pretty decent mileage.
My folks owned an MB diesel when I was in HS -- old, slow, smoky, took forever to start with the glow plugs. I have no idea what kind of mileage we got; I used to 'borrow' it for Saturday night jaunts to LA with my friends.
I am looking forward to the day where we have the choice of the same type of diesel engines here that are available in Europe - decent HP, huge amounts of torque, and over 30MPG.
But, with diesel fuel running probably 30 to 40 cents more than regular unleaded, you'd have to keep it a good, long time to justify the price differential. Not sure that a plan like that is feasible in this forum.
Ya darn tootin'!
I've occasionally thought about a VW diesel.
I went to try it out before getting the Accord, but I could not justify what they wanted for it. I wanted a lease and they were talking about $150/month more for a basic Jetta TDI than for a fully loaded Accord.
But, with diesel fuel running probably 30 to 40 cents more than regular unleaded
I'm not sure what the difference in my area is right now, but that sounds about right. I'm not sure what the future will hold, though. Its possible it will drop back below regular. Even if it doesn't, the 30% better mileage and typically much stronger resale should more than make up for the added cost (which i believe is in the hundreds of dollars, as opposed to thousands in a hybrid).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My problem is that I've become sort of 'addicted' to the smoothness of an OHC (or DOHC) V6 when compared to a 4 cylinder. That makes it difficult to choose what I might want for my next car.
I'll admit that I'm intrigued by both the Hyundai Sonata (235HP) and Azera (263HP), as both can be had for under $30K easily.
OTOH, a 4-cylinder, 5 speed Accord EX (or EX-L) that gets 34MPG highway could work as well.
Then again, perhaps I want something other than a 4 door sedan. I've always like wagons, but there just aren't enough of them around.
But, I could see myself in a Mustang GT - though the wife thinks that I'll look silly.
See! 4 or 5 different options in just the span of a few minutes. Imagine what the next 3 or 4 years are going to be like!
Yep, and for some warped reason, I like the looks of all of them.
The Legacy and Passat are nice, but I believe that both require premium fuel (at least, I know the Legacy 2.5GT does; I don't think the NA boxer has enough gumption for my liking). So, that leaves the Mazda 6 with the V6.
Hard to justify a wagon when we already own a small SUV.
The wife really liked the Pontiac G6 coupe, but the lack of adjustable-height seat belts was a sticky issue - she's 5'2" and I'm 5'11" so we need them to adjust so that they're comfortable.
(sigh)
Well, at least I've got some time to figure it all out - who knows what will be introduced between now and the time I'm ready to get back into the market?
Eh,
At least you wouldn't see yourself around every corner (assuming your Jag was running..)
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I average about 26 MPG in my 325i, but it will get above 30 if you're doing all highway driving. Again, burning premium...
I wouldn't let the requirement of premium fuel dictate my decisions, either, but, it would be a factor in the case of something like a Range Rover or an X5 4.6is, where you have low MPG plus the requirement of premium.
If Top Gear's opinions can be extrapolated to all of Europe, people who buy diesel engined cars over petrol ones are seen as tightwads, and the popularity of diesel engines there is solely due to the high cost of fuel, and not because there are no trade-offs.
The driving dynamics aren't that bad, but some of the interior materials would raise eyebrows at half the price. It might be compelling if it were substantially cheaper than a similarly-equipped Accord or Camry, but even with incentives, it's not. I was surprised that I was able to find things I liked about it, though.
My guess is that based on its weight, a little over 4,000 lbs, and the drivetrain is that it should get around 20 mpg city and mid 20s on the highway. Maybe it will break 26 or 27 on the EPA test but no more.
Rover has been consistently improving is MPG. In 2002 a Range Rover or Disco would strugle to get 10 mpg city and 14 mpg highway.
Now a Range Rover will do 14-15 mpg city and do 18-20 mpg city.
A Range Rover sport is rated 14-19 but can get as high as 22 mpg highway.
A LR3, the replacment for the disco, can get as high as 22 on the highway as well. That is a pretty signficant improvement in only four years.
I've always wanted to try a more luxo auto and the wife has already informed me that her next purchase will be some small entry level luxo brand. She definitely wants more style, creature comforts & fun. Would be nice I guess.
The Sandman
Overall nice looking package though.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I found it to have really great midrange punch, but it sure didn't like revving too much. It had one of those toggle-switch shift functions on the auto, but it's still only a 4-speed auto. That and the bloody-knuckles hard plastic and VERY low-rent interior were a real turn-off. The salesman made a huge deal of the dash computer that can calculate your mileage and all that stuff. When we got back, he couldn't understand how come I didn't want to sign the credit app and "get things started". He was an annoying little man, but you had to give him credit for working hard. I had made it clear from the outset that I was only window shopping, so I don't consider it my fault that he got so carried away. You had to love his very optimistic paperwork that he started by listing the car's full MSRP PLUS that dealership's $2000 mark-up (on an '06!) as the negotiating price. ;-)
Then I stopped by the Toyota store, where they were a lot less desperate to sell, and chatted up Scions with the salesman. Seems I can get an xA with aftermarket cruise and Toyota keyless/alarm for a shade under $15K. I think that or a new Subie OBS are calling my name in the next couple of months, even though I SWORE I wouldn't trade again this year. :-/
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
At least you wouldn't see yourself around every corner (assuming your Jag was running..)
I went to the Jaguar website to poke around and found that the starting MSRP for the wagon was over $36K! Don't know what invoice is on them, but I suspect that it would still be out of range, budget-wise.
There's also the A4 Avant, but that's probably too expensive as well.
corvette: I'm driving a 2007 Malibu rental with the 217 HP 3.5-liter engine. When I was driving it around town, I mistook it for an OHC engine--there's very little of the low-rpm clatter that was present in the 3100, 3400, and 3800 engines.
When we had the VUE in the shop to have the steering rack replaced, the dealer rented a G6 sedan for me. I think it had the same engine in it and I, too, found it to be pretty well put together. And, like your Malibu, the interior was completely low-rent. Admittedly, this was the entry level sedan; the G6 coupe that the wife and I test drove earlier this summer (I think it was the GTP trim line) had a much nicer feel to the materials. Still, I think that an Accord or an Altima uses higher quality materials.
When I bought my L300 in 2002, I took a close look at the (then new) Altima ... I really didn't like the interior of the Altima at the time as compared to the Saturn. I think that the roles have now reversed; the Aura's interior has some bits and pieces that are obviously bottom of the barrel, while the new Altima interior (at least the '06 model year) was much nicer. Haven't seen the '07 Altimas yet so cannot comment on them.
hmmmm... i'm looking at it now and it tells me the 2.5 starts at $20,290 while the TDI is $21,605, so a bit under $1400. BUT, it is almost $2k cheaper than the 2.0T, so i guess it depends on where you start.
i'm not sure what options come in any of them because, for some reason, the comparison tool on their website doesn't include the TDI.
Anyway, I wasn't exactly thinking of anyone in particular. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure, from a manufacturing standpoint, the cost difference between diesel and gas is far less than the difference between gas and hybrid. HOPEFULLY, we won't have to suffer with the silly packaging BS that manufacturers tend to pull when they throw in 5 options you DON'T want just to get the engine you do want.
OTOH, a 4-cylinder, 5 speed Accord EX (or EX-L) that gets 34MPG highway could work as well.
To me, this is where my dedication to efficiency starts to take a bit of a turn. I was willing to drop from 34 to 29 mpg and get the V6 6-speed. I want efficiency, but I also want fun.
Which is why diesel appeals to me so much, and the E320 in particular. You can still get great performance, while getting better efficiency.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think you may be optimistic about the LR2. I HOPE you are right, but I don't see it. My guess is 18/22.
Is it full-time AWD?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Most of my customers are telling me they are averaging around 17 mpg with mixed city highway. I have had several people tell me they broke the 20 mpg mark on long highway trips with a full vehicle.
I am talking like Thanksgiving trip to grandmas loaded down with five or six people and a bunch of cargo.
Yeah the LR2 is full time AWD with a FWD biais. Sometime in the next couple of years the E-Driveshaft from the Land-e concept will come out. That will decouple the rear axle from the drivetrain under light load conditions and should be worth a couple of mpg.
OK, I'll bite. What the heck does that have to do with buying a new car?
Also, I predict that future state for the US will be all premiarily diesel (maybe with some hybrid attachment, but I don't think diesels make sense as a hybrid).
Why you may ask? Because the US has a carbon based fuel supply that dwarfs what the middle east has. Only drawback is the fact that it is currently locked up in coal, but the technology exists to convert it to diesel. PA has some plants already, according to the endless campaign ads for Ed Rendell (the gov.)
I also like the waste to fuel (I guess diesel again) plants springing up. Nothing like taking all the crop scraps and turning them into something useful, and cleaner burning than fossil. It can even make many large farms energy self sufficient, as they set up little mini refineries/power plants on site.
Not directly related to cars, but there will also be a move toward photoelectic roof panels combined with 2-way electricity transmission.
I guess I wnet off on a tangent, but the chicken littles that run around squawking about oil running out, life as we know it will end, etc. just haven't been paying attention to history.
That, and this country is so based around private autos, that something will happen to keep us all in cars. Who knows what they will be running on, and I bet they are way more effieicent, but they will exist so we can continue to buy and sell at whim.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Basically, I'm looking for something I won't have to take to a faraway dealer (> 30 miles) to get serviced, which narrows the field to Chrysler, Ford, GM (and their respective progeny); Honda, Nissan, or Toyota. If it's not fun to drive, I'd at least hope that it's interesting to drive.
ain't that a kick? i guess it just goes to show you how much americans love suvs.
If it's not fun to drive, I'd at least hope that it's interesting to drive.
That could be a dangerous statement. I find a moving truck "interesting" to drive.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
We've got lots of forums for that.
i do hope you are right on most counts, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yesterday, I made an appointment for next week to take the vehicle in for tire rotation/balance and an alignment if needed. My tires appear to not be wearing at all and there is no pull in the steering.
I mentioned my gas mileage to the service guy that I was getting around 11.5-12 in city driving. I told him about YOU (BR) telling me that I might need a computer update. He said that he would check into that.
I told him that if I drove my LR3 any softer, that I would be pushing it physically! LOL! But, I've always heard that you need to drive a Land Rover like you stole it because you will always get the same mileage however you drive!
Also, at my antique car club meeting/dinner last night, I just happened to sit next to a guy who has a 2005 LR3.. He told me he was getting around 15 mpg's city (he has 18,000 miles). So, maybe there is hope (I'm at 7,800 miles).
All and all, my LR3 is a fantastic vehicle, the performance is wonderful so if I could get a little more mpg's, that would be icing on the cake! :P
Mark156
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
An AWD EXL is $26k compared to a V6 EXL at $27,400.
If you forego AWD, its obviously cheaper.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I also don't understand the under-powered CRV. You'd think with all of Honda's engine technology they could come up with more than 166 hp in a 3500 lb vehicle.....
Have you thought of a Civic Si? That could be a fun ride for awhile, & I'm guessing would have excellent resale.
Not sure I want another manual transmission, but the Si does have all the airbags and skid control.
I admit to being somewhat intrigued by the Civic Si sedan, but couldn't find any mileage numbers on it. And, does it require premium fuel? Other than that, $21K for 197HP and a 6-speed seems like a fairly decent deal. Not sure if I could live with the double decker dash layout, however.
Speaking of which, why is it that Honda does such a great job with the Accord dash, then screws around with dash layout on so many of its other cars? The old Prelude had gauges that stretched across the whole dash; the S2000 has some oddities about it as well (I just can't remember what they are); and now the Civic, with the speedo (digital, no less) at one level and the tach at another.
2007 CRV EX-L FWD - $23531
2007 Accord EX-L V6 FWD - $25278
$1747 difference, but there was a $500 incentive on Accords up until November 1, which makes the difference $1247. I expect they may renew the incentive.
They have been experimenting with different display technology. Before you get too torqued about the double tier display on the Civic, drive it a bit. The upper readout speedometer is close to a horizon display. This is great because the readout appears closer to optical infinity. That is cool because it offsets the effects of accommodation (the time it takes to go from looking at something close up to looking at something far away)that are a part of the aging process. I am not sure the implementation is 100% what I would've done, but its a great start. The Prius also has a horizon type display.
This is partly a way for automakers to make cars for an aging population without have to make Oldsmobile rectangular speedometers.
I agree that the speedo is very easy to read. The problem is with the Tach, since you have to drop your eyes way down, and it is kinda small.
Guess that shows how many people still look at the tach!
If they had the Civic SI sedan when I was buying, I might be driving that instead of my Accord. I think they would have ended up being about the same price (msrp on the Si, huge discount on the Accord EX-L).
I'm actually kinda Jonesing for a GTI 4 door (please don't tell my wife if you see her...). Another of the cars I loved in my younger days that I somehow never managed to buy.
The real thing I better stay away from is a Mazdaspeed 3, although 25K the way I would want it will probably kill the moment pretty quick. Plus, the only dealers near me don't sell speed models.
Now, if I had to get something today (say to replace a total), I might just lease a speed 6. They are practically giving those babies away on a lease.
Let my son learn to drive stick on that, and hope the clutch lasts until I turn it back in!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Is the new CRV still on the Civic platform?
My sister has the last gen CRV. My biggest problem with it is that it FEELS like an economy car. Hard seats, good deal of road noise, kinda cheap materials inside, etc. Its like night and day between that and my Accord.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The other half drives a Mazda3s which is definitely more of a pocket rocket. Talk about great low end torque and smooth shifts, the car rocks. Wish the mpg's were better, but we've got the Civic for that. It's like an amusement park ride to me. It always puts a smile on my face when I walk into the garage and see both our cars, so I'm a happy camper.
The wife has also decided to move up to a small luxo model for her next ride, which should be about 2010, when I can retire. Now that'll be fun when we go test driving!
The Sandman
The problem is with the Tach, since you have to drop your eyes way down, and it is kinda small.
Well, I drove a VW New Beetle for a few years, so I'm used to the small tach.
The other half drives a Mazda3s...
I have a work buddy who has a Mazda 3 hatch. Nice car! Many years ago (in a previous wifetime) we owned a Protege; it's nice to see that Mazda hasn't lost the connection with that heritage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-V#Third_generation
I know Wikipedia isn't the best source, but...
Even Straightline thinks it is sharing it's platform with the RDX:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1212?@@
Maybe it is a heavily modified version of the CR-V platform. I can't remember where I read that it was a new platform.