Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    But there is no way I'm going back to sucking gas at those rates.

    I just filled up my wifes VUE on Monday night ... her mpg for the tank was just under 23 (EPA is 19/25). This is with the 250HP Honda 3.5 V6. Paid $1.989 per gallon.

    However, I do agree with kyfdx on not going back to anything under 20MPG.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    honestly, i still consider that too high these days. With the hybrid and/or diesel technology available, I'm disappointed with any newly introduced vehicles getting below mid-20s mpg in a big ute, high-20s in a small ute, and 30s in a big sedan.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I'm disappointed with any newly introduced vehicles getting below mid-20s mpg in a big ute, high-20s in a small ute, and 30s in a big sedan.

    Is this for combined mileage or just highway only? I've been averaging 24-26MPG in my L300 (182HP V6) with a 4-speed automatic. The VUE has the 5-speed auto.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    ummmm... ehhhh... hmmmm... sort of combined. I don't really know how the EPA comes up with a combined number. Basically, for me personally, the combined number is usually 2-3 mpg below the EPA highway number.

    Ya gotta realize that I'm being REALLY strict right now. I'm basing most of my hopes and dreams on mercedes diesels. ;)

    R320 = 6 passenger 2.5 tons @ 25-26 combined mpg
    E320 = big sedan (well, midsize, i suppose) @ 34-35 mpg.

    anyway, i figure EVERYONE should be doing as well now or in the very near future. If Benz can do that with the E320, then a normal midsize family sedan should be getting close to 40 mpg combined, IMHO.

    By the way, I'm currently getting ~27 in my Accord and we get ~18 in my wife's Pacifica. I won't be happy with anything less than 24 mpg in her replacement vehicle (which would still be a 3-row SUV, according to her) and over 30 mpg in mine (although I may forego a new vehicle next time around, in which case the mileage won't factor in so much).

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Great minds think alike! :D

    When I was evaluating the different vehicles for both mine and my wife's purchases, I calculated the MPG for comparison purposes to be 2 less than the EPA highway value. Most of our commute driving is either on interstates (me) or 55-60 MPH 2 lane roads (her), with some stop-and-go driving thrown in.

    While I like the Benz diesel, I can't afford the asking price of $52K before options. I'll be lucky if the budget for my next new car will be $30K, and even that will probably be 3 or 4 years down the road.

    Do the Accord and Pacifica both take regular unleaded?
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,374
    The Accord takes regular. Not sure about the Pacifica.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    Do the Accord and Pacifica both take regular unleaded?

    Well... they both take it, but mid-grade is suggested on the Pac. We've tried both over extended periods and noticed absolutely no difference, so we use regular.

    Oh, believe me, I hear ya on the Benz price. And its exactly why my next car might not be new. I'm seriously considering getting my wife into the R320cdi ($57k when optioned the way we'd want it) and getting a cheap beater for myself. That is if we are still both commuting together and I don't change my mind in 22 months when her Pac goes back to Chrysler.

    I'm not sure what the advantages to such a plan are financially. I mean, there are probably NONE. But this would be in anticipation of actually keeping the Benz for 10 years, which I've never even come close to with any daily driver (my volvo was the longest at 4 years). So if we pay it off in 5, then maybe I get a real nice car for myself to last 10 years (yeah, right!).

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,147
    While I'm selling my 4Runner, I was really happily surprised with its MPG...about 18 MPG around town and low-mid 20s MPG on the highway. But, as you say, compared to my BMW, those are pretty dismal numbers.

    As the weather starts to get nasty around here, I expect I'll be using my Mother's Caddy AWD machine. Surprisingly, on the highway, It gets about 28 MPG...with a V8, no less.

    In SW OH gas prices have been hovering between $1.95 to $2.05 (Costco) for the last several weeks. I was thinking I might keep the 4Runner because of that. But, I really need to thin out the vehicle heard in my garage and driveway.

    A business colleague just bought a Prius. He's in CA and it allows him to use the HOF lanes, and speeds up his commute considerably. He says he's not getting anywhere near the MPG that's advertised, but he's still getting substantially better MPG than the Lexus ES he traded in.

    I don't ever think that the consumer will ever get tired of trucks in this country. I've always believed that hybrid technology would affect sales of SUVs and trucks more than it would with cars. Yet, I don't see a big move by anyone to "hybridize" their big trucks and SUVs.

    As good as diesels have become, the U.S. has been so resistant to diesels, I don't know if they'll ever catch on (particularly given how oil companies insist on charging more for diesel fuel than regular fuel).
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    As good as diesels have become, the U.S. has been so resistant to diesels, I don't know if they'll ever catch on

    I don't know, either. But as long as they become available long enough for me to grab a couple ... ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    The reason I ask is that I've been thinking quite a bit about the next car that I get (even though it's several years away).

    Some models that I really like (the Subaru Legacy 2.5GT comes to mind) require the use of premium (89 octane here in CO), which seems to be a needless expense since so many competing cars make similar HP but only need regular.

    Yeah, the difference is only something like $.20 a gallon or $3 a fillup (assuming a 15 gallon tank), but why pay it if you don't really get any sort of benefit from it?

    In fact, when looking for the wife's car, we considered an Outback XT - so much so that we took a test drive and were very impressed - but when the wife found out it takes premium, it was immediately crossed off the list.

    Am I crazy or do others here think the same thing?
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Of course if you own an older car, & it would cost you a ton to trade it for a new one with better mileage, it may make more sense to just buy the gas.

    My bmw 5-series gets around 18mpg around town, & up to 23 hwy. Not stellar I guess, but given the safety, luxury, the fact that it's a wagon so I can haul stuff, it seems fine to me.

    My previous vehicle was a Range Rover. Watching the gas gauge drop, & then buying gas, was truly depressing.....it got between 10.8 & 12 mpg around town, & 15 hwy.....so now the bmw mileage seems great.

    The other thing I'd say, like to michaell, is: Within reason, I wouldn't let mileage or need for premium gas totally dictate your decisions. Car shopping is too difficult, & there are always going to be things you don't like with any vehicle. The Subaru sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Personally, I wouldn't get something you like less just because the Subie takes premium.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    i think along the same lines (we're doing alot of that today, apparently).

    Its kind of like when I traded my Z on the Lincoln. Here I had a V6 with 280+ hp that required premium. I got into a V8 with 280 hp that ... also required premium? I couldn't help but think ... why?? Bigger engine, same horsepower, so shouldn't the octane requirement go DOWN??

    anyhooo... I suppose if a car was really good on gas. I mean, enough to counteract the added expense of premium, I wouldn't mind. But, currently, that doesn't happen.

    By the way, the difference has gone up considerable. At least it was up the last time I checked. Instead of 10 cents more to go from regular to mid-grade, and another 10 to go to premium, it was 20 and 20. So about 20% additional charge by today's $2/gallon standards.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    and I don't change my mind in 22 months when her Pac goes back to Chrysler.

    Yeah, right! In 22 months you'll probably come up with a discard 50 different plans for the next car or cars that you buy or lease.

    At least, that's what keeps this forum going. Helping others decide on their needs and wants and helping them spend their money.

    I've occasionally thought about a VW diesel. A guy who used to live across the street from me had a Jetta diesel - with an automatic, no less! - and said that he got pretty decent mileage.

    My folks owned an MB diesel when I was in HS -- old, slow, smoky, took forever to start with the glow plugs. I have no idea what kind of mileage we got; I used to 'borrow' it for Saturday night jaunts to LA with my friends.

    I am looking forward to the day where we have the choice of the same type of diesel engines here that are available in Europe - decent HP, huge amounts of torque, and over 30MPG.

    But, with diesel fuel running probably 30 to 40 cents more than regular unleaded, you'd have to keep it a good, long time to justify the price differential. Not sure that a plan like that is feasible in this forum.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    Yeah, right! In 22 months you'll probably come up with a discard 50 different plans for the next car or cars that you buy or lease.

    Ya darn tootin'! ;)

    I've occasionally thought about a VW diesel.

    I went to try it out before getting the Accord, but I could not justify what they wanted for it. I wanted a lease and they were talking about $150/month more for a basic Jetta TDI than for a fully loaded Accord.

    But, with diesel fuel running probably 30 to 40 cents more than regular unleaded

    I'm not sure what the difference in my area is right now, but that sounds about right. I'm not sure what the future will hold, though. Its possible it will drop back below regular. Even if it doesn't, the 30% better mileage and typically much stronger resale should more than make up for the added cost (which i believe is in the hundreds of dollars, as opposed to thousands in a hybrid).

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    According to the VW website, the difference in base MSRP between the Jetta 2.5 and the Jetta TDI is just over $2K.

    My problem is that I've become sort of 'addicted' to the smoothness of an OHC (or DOHC) V6 when compared to a 4 cylinder. That makes it difficult to choose what I might want for my next car.

    I'll admit that I'm intrigued by both the Hyundai Sonata (235HP) and Azera (263HP), as both can be had for under $30K easily.

    OTOH, a 4-cylinder, 5 speed Accord EX (or EX-L) that gets 34MPG highway could work as well.

    Then again, perhaps I want something other than a 4 door sedan. I've always like wagons, but there just aren't enough of them around.

    But, I could see myself in a Mustang GT - though the wife thinks that I'll look silly.

    See! 4 or 5 different options in just the span of a few minutes. Imagine what the next 3 or 4 years are going to be like!
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The three wagons that come to mind from our searches are the Subaru Legacy, the VW Passat, and the Mazda6. At the time, I believe the Taurus wagon was also available.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    The three wagons that come to mind from our searches are the Subaru Legacy, the VW Passat, and the Mazda6.

    Yep, and for some warped reason, I like the looks of all of them.

    The Legacy and Passat are nice, but I believe that both require premium fuel (at least, I know the Legacy 2.5GT does; I don't think the NA boxer has enough gumption for my liking). So, that leaves the Mazda 6 with the V6.

    Hard to justify a wagon when we already own a small SUV.

    The wife really liked the Pontiac G6 coupe, but the lack of adjustable-height seat belts was a sticky issue - she's 5'2" and I'm 5'11" so we need them to adjust so that they're comfortable.

    (sigh)

    Well, at least I've got some time to figure it all out - who knows what will be introduced between now and the time I'm ready to get back into the market?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The Legacy and Passat are nice, but I believe that both require premium fuel (at least, I know the Legacy 2.5GT does; I don't think the NA boxer has enough gumption for my liking). So, that leaves the Mazda 6 with the V6.

    Eh, :blush: the Legacy 2.5i with the manual is tolerable if a little pokey. That was another issue with those wagons is at the time, everything but a Taurus was available as a manual.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,755
    Speaking of small wagons (and AWD), I saw a Jag X-type wagon the other day..

    At least you wouldn't see yourself around every corner (assuming your Jag was running..)

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  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,374
    I owned a Jetta VR6 that had an EPA rating of 26 highway. With wider plus-zero performance tires, it only got about 23 MPG at 75 MPH. And, premium was recommended.

    I average about 26 MPG in my 325i, but it will get above 30 if you're doing all highway driving. Again, burning premium...

    I wouldn't let the requirement of premium fuel dictate my decisions, either, but, it would be a factor in the case of something like a Range Rover or an X5 4.6is, where you have low MPG plus the requirement of premium.

    If Top Gear's opinions can be extrapolated to all of Europe, people who buy diesel engined cars over petrol ones are seen as tightwads, and the popularity of diesel engines there is solely due to the high cost of fuel, and not because there are no trade-offs.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,374
    I'm driving a 2007 Malibu rental with the 217 HP 3.5-liter engine. When I was driving it around town, I mistook it for an OHC engine--there's very little of the low-rpm clatter that was present in the 3100, 3400, and 3800 engines.

    The driving dynamics aren't that bad, but some of the interior materials would raise eyebrows at half the price. It might be compelling if it were substantially cheaper than a similarly-equipped Accord or Camry, but even with incentives, it's not. I was surprised that I was able to find things I liked about it, though.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah you won't see any EPA numbers on the LR2 till the end of the year at the earliest.

    My guess is that based on its weight, a little over 4,000 lbs, and the drivetrain is that it should get around 20 mpg city and mid 20s on the highway. Maybe it will break 26 or 27 on the EPA test but no more.

    Rover has been consistently improving is MPG. In 2002 a Range Rover or Disco would strugle to get 10 mpg city and 14 mpg highway.

    Now a Range Rover will do 14-15 mpg city and do 18-20 mpg city.

    A Range Rover sport is rated 14-19 but can get as high as 22 mpg highway.

    A LR3, the replacment for the disco, can get as high as 22 on the highway as well. That is a pretty signficant improvement in only four years.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    My mileage keeps getting better on this car with a bit over 3k on the odo. For my straight 9 mile comute on one road, it works for me. For a 4 banger, the car drives amazingly strong. Great low end torque with very smooth shifts up the power band with the slush box. It's a great around town commuter car, which is the reason I bought it. And gas down here is hovering around the $2.27 mark, even with a port within 15 miles.
    I've always wanted to try a more luxo auto and the wife has already informed me that her next purchase will be some small entry level luxo brand. She definitely wants more style, creature comforts & fun. Would be nice I guess.

    The Sandman :)
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The LR2 reminds me of the first gen CRV from the A pillar back, and the front looks almost identical to the Freelander.

    Overall nice looking package though.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    What a funny coincidence! I had an hour to kill tonight an figured I would spend a little time on the nearby Chevy lot, eyeballing a few windows, you know? So anyway, I have always kinda liked the look of the Malibu Maxx, so I went over because they had a couple of them sitting right in front, and within 60 seconds the most energetic salesman I have ever met was handing me the keys for a test drive.

    I found it to have really great midrange punch, but it sure didn't like revving too much. It had one of those toggle-switch shift functions on the auto, but it's still only a 4-speed auto. That and the bloody-knuckles hard plastic and VERY low-rent interior were a real turn-off. The salesman made a huge deal of the dash computer that can calculate your mileage and all that stuff. When we got back, he couldn't understand how come I didn't want to sign the credit app and "get things started". He was an annoying little man, but you had to give him credit for working hard. I had made it clear from the outset that I was only window shopping, so I don't consider it my fault that he got so carried away. You had to love his very optimistic paperwork that he started by listing the car's full MSRP PLUS that dealership's $2000 mark-up (on an '06!) as the negotiating price. ;-)

    Then I stopped by the Toyota store, where they were a lot less desperate to sell, and chatted up Scions with the salesman. Seems I can get an xA with aftermarket cruise and Toyota keyless/alarm for a shade under $15K. I think that or a new Subie OBS are calling my name in the next couple of months, even though I SWORE I wouldn't trade again this year. :-/

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    kyfdx: Speaking of small wagons (and AWD), I saw a Jag X-type wagon the other day..

    At least you wouldn't see yourself around every corner (assuming your Jag was running..)


    I went to the Jaguar website to poke around and found that the starting MSRP for the wagon was over $36K! Don't know what invoice is on them, but I suspect that it would still be out of range, budget-wise.

    There's also the A4 Avant, but that's probably too expensive as well.

    corvette: I'm driving a 2007 Malibu rental with the 217 HP 3.5-liter engine. When I was driving it around town, I mistook it for an OHC engine--there's very little of the low-rpm clatter that was present in the 3100, 3400, and 3800 engines.

    When we had the VUE in the shop to have the steering rack replaced, the dealer rented a G6 sedan for me. I think it had the same engine in it and I, too, found it to be pretty well put together. And, like your Malibu, the interior was completely low-rent. Admittedly, this was the entry level sedan; the G6 coupe that the wife and I test drove earlier this summer (I think it was the GTP trim line) had a much nicer feel to the materials. Still, I think that an Accord or an Altima uses higher quality materials.

    When I bought my L300 in 2002, I took a close look at the (then new) Altima ... I really didn't like the interior of the Altima at the time as compared to the Saturn. I think that the roles have now reversed; the Aura's interior has some bits and pieces that are obviously bottom of the barrel, while the new Altima interior (at least the '06 model year) was much nicer. Haven't seen the '07 Altimas yet so cannot comment on them.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    According to the VW website, the difference in base MSRP between the Jetta 2.5 and the Jetta TDI is just over $2K.

    hmmmm... i'm looking at it now and it tells me the 2.5 starts at $20,290 while the TDI is $21,605, so a bit under $1400. BUT, it is almost $2k cheaper than the 2.0T, so i guess it depends on where you start.

    i'm not sure what options come in any of them because, for some reason, the comparison tool on their website doesn't include the TDI. :(

    Anyway, I wasn't exactly thinking of anyone in particular. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure, from a manufacturing standpoint, the cost difference between diesel and gas is far less than the difference between gas and hybrid. HOPEFULLY, we won't have to suffer with the silly packaging BS that manufacturers tend to pull when they throw in 5 options you DON'T want just to get the engine you do want.

    OTOH, a 4-cylinder, 5 speed Accord EX (or EX-L) that gets 34MPG highway could work as well.

    To me, this is where my dedication to efficiency starts to take a bit of a turn. I was willing to drop from 34 to 29 mpg and get the V6 6-speed. I want efficiency, but I also want fun. :)

    Which is why diesel appeals to me so much, and the E320 in particular. You can still get great performance, while getting better efficiency.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    hmmm.. wish I could remember who it was, but some LR3 owner around here was saying how he averages 15 mpg. OUCH!

    I think you may be optimistic about the LR2. I HOPE you are right, but I don't see it. My guess is 18/22.

    Is it full-time AWD?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah I think that is Mark156. I am convinced something is either wrong with the fuel managment side of his ECM or the tranny control module.

    Most of my customers are telling me they are averaging around 17 mpg with mixed city highway. I have had several people tell me they broke the 20 mpg mark on long highway trips with a full vehicle.

    I am talking like Thanksgiving trip to grandmas loaded down with five or six people and a bunch of cargo.

    Yeah the LR2 is full time AWD with a FWD biais. Sometime in the next couple of years the E-Driveshaft from the Land-e concept will come out. That will decouple the rear axle from the drivetrain under light load conditions and should be worth a couple of mpg.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,607
    I'm not sure what the advantages to such a plan are financially. I mean, there are probably NONE

    OK, I'll bite. What the heck does that have to do with buying a new car? :blush:

    Also, I predict that future state for the US will be all premiarily diesel (maybe with some hybrid attachment, but I don't think diesels make sense as a hybrid).

    Why you may ask? Because the US has a carbon based fuel supply that dwarfs what the middle east has. Only drawback is the fact that it is currently locked up in coal, but the technology exists to convert it to diesel. PA has some plants already, according to the endless campaign ads for Ed Rendell (the gov.)

    I also like the waste to fuel (I guess diesel again) plants springing up. Nothing like taking all the crop scraps and turning them into something useful, and cleaner burning than fossil. It can even make many large farms energy self sufficient, as they set up little mini refineries/power plants on site.

    Not directly related to cars, but there will also be a move toward photoelectic roof panels combined with 2-way electricity transmission.

    I guess I wnet off on a tangent, but the chicken littles that run around squawking about oil running out, life as we know it will end, etc. just haven't been paying attention to history.

    That, and this country is so based around private autos, that something will happen to keep us all in cars. Who knows what they will be running on, and I bet they are way more effieicent, but they will exist so we can continue to buy and sell at whim.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,374
    The V6 Accord is in the same price range as the CR-V, and has a lot more power...

    Basically, I'm looking for something I won't have to take to a faraway dealer (> 30 miles) to get serviced, which narrows the field to Chrysler, Ford, GM (and their respective progeny); Honda, Nissan, or Toyota. If it's not fun to drive, I'd at least hope that it's interesting to drive.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    The V6 Accord is in the same price range as the CR-V, and has a lot more power...

    ain't that a kick? i guess it just goes to show you how much americans love suvs.

    If it's not fun to drive, I'd at least hope that it's interesting to drive.

    That could be a dangerous statement. I find a moving truck "interesting" to drive. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    i'm trying to avoid getting too involved in the diesel discussion here. ;)
    We've got lots of forums for that.
    i do hope you are right on most counts, though.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Hey British_Rover!... Yep, it was me that mentioned the fuel economy of my 2006 LR3.

    Yesterday, I made an appointment for next week to take the vehicle in for tire rotation/balance and an alignment if needed. My tires appear to not be wearing at all and there is no pull in the steering.

    I mentioned my gas mileage to the service guy that I was getting around 11.5-12 in city driving. I told him about YOU (BR) telling me that I might need a computer update. He said that he would check into that.

    I told him that if I drove my LR3 any softer, that I would be pushing it physically! LOL! But, I've always heard that you need to drive a Land Rover like you stole it because you will always get the same mileage however you drive!

    Also, at my antique car club meeting/dinner last night, I just happened to sit next to a guy who has a 2005 LR3.. He told me he was getting around 15 mpg's city (he has 18,000 miles). So, maybe there is hope (I'm at 7,800 miles).

    All and all, my LR3 is a fantastic vehicle, the performance is wonderful so if I could get a little more mpg's, that would be icing on the cake! :P

    Mark156 :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Are they really in the same price range? My impression was it goes CRV, $21-24K (plus $2K or so for the new EX-L with NAV), while stickers on the Accord V-6 go more like $24-27K. Just barely touching, rather than overlapping, unless you count that CRV EX-L with NAV. Which I don't think is going to be a volume model, at least not right away.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    they are real close, depending on what you look at.

    An AWD EXL is $26k compared to a V6 EXL at $27,400.

    If you forego AWD, its obviously cheaper.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    You could do a lot worse than picking out whatever Honda or Toyota you like the most. Have you checked out the Rav4? Very quick with the V6.

    I also don't understand the under-powered CRV. You'd think with all of Honda's engine technology they could come up with more than 166 hp in a 3500 lb vehicle.....

    Have you thought of a Civic Si? That could be a fun ride for awhile, & I'm guessing would have excellent resale.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Something like 80% of CR-V buyers are women and the market studies indicated that neither a V6 or a manual were needed for that market segment.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,374
    From what I understand, the Si is hard to come by. But, I know my dad would buy it if/when I got tired of it--he's owned a Civic Si and a CRX Si.

    Not sure I want another manual transmission, but the Si does have all the airbags and skid control.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    My boss and his wife both drive CRV's - my boss has an '06, while his wife drives either an '03 or an '04. Nice vehicles, nothing to say about them either on the really positive or really negative side.

    I admit to being somewhat intrigued by the Civic Si sedan, but couldn't find any mileage numbers on it. And, does it require premium fuel? Other than that, $21K for 197HP and a 6-speed seems like a fairly decent deal. Not sure if I could live with the double decker dash layout, however.

    Speaking of which, why is it that Honda does such a great job with the Accord dash, then screws around with dash layout on so many of its other cars? The old Prelude had gauges that stretched across the whole dash; the S2000 has some oddities about it as well (I just can't remember what they are); and now the Civic, with the speedo (digital, no less) at one level and the tach at another.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,374
    I'm looking at invoice prices...

    2007 CRV EX-L FWD - $23531
    2007 Accord EX-L V6 FWD - $25278

    $1747 difference, but there was a $500 incentive on Accords up until November 1, which makes the difference $1247. I expect they may renew the incentive.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,374
    23/32, and it wants premium fuel. There's probably a waiting list for the sedan, and even the coupes are hard to find. I don't think there would be a discount from the MSRP--but it's still a good value.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Speaking of which, why is it that Honda does such a great job with the Accord dash, then screws around with dash layout on so many of its other cars? The old Prelude had gauges that stretched across the whole dash; the S2000 has some oddities about it as well (I just can't remember what they are); and now the Civic, with the speedo (digital, no less) at one level and the tach at another.

    They have been experimenting with different display technology. Before you get too torqued about the double tier display on the Civic, drive it a bit. The upper readout speedometer is close to a horizon display. This is great because the readout appears closer to optical infinity. That is cool because it offsets the effects of accommodation (the time it takes to go from looking at something close up to looking at something far away)that are a part of the aging process. I am not sure the implementation is 100% what I would've done, but its a great start. The Prius also has a horizon type display.
    This is partly a way for automakers to make cars for an aging population without have to make Oldsmobile rectangular speedometers.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,607
    It actually worked pretty well shen I test drove it, although it is a bit odd looking.

    I agree that the speedo is very easy to read. The problem is with the Tach, since you have to drop your eyes way down, and it is kinda small.

    Guess that shows how many people still look at the tach!

    If they had the Civic SI sedan when I was buying, I might be driving that instead of my Accord. I think they would have ended up being about the same price (msrp on the Si, huge discount on the Accord EX-L).

    I'm actually kinda Jonesing for a GTI 4 door (please don't tell my wife if you see her...). Another of the cars I loved in my younger days that I somehow never managed to buy.

    The real thing I better stay away from is a Mazdaspeed 3, although 25K the way I would want it will probably kill the moment pretty quick. Plus, the only dealers near me don't sell speed models.

    Now, if I had to get something today (say to replace a total), I might just lease a speed 6. They are practically giving those babies away on a lease.

    Let my son learn to drive stick on that, and hope the clutch lasts until I turn it back in!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,772
    right. I did saw AWD in my example, though, and admitted FWD would make a bigger difference.

    Is the new CRV still on the Civic platform?

    My sister has the last gen CRV. My biggest problem with it is that it FEELS like an economy car. Hard seats, good deal of road noise, kinda cheap materials inside, etc. Its like night and day between that and my Accord.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Not sure on the platform of the CR-V. I know it does not share a platform with the RDX but that is all.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Took me less than 5 minutes to get used to the speedo layout...totally cool! Looks odd at first...but it works. Can't say enough good things about the Civic. It just does everything right. Got the LX sedan in Galaxy Grey and always get compliments on the way it looks. Excellent low end torque with smooth shifts. City mileage in the 32 range and acceptable seats for my bad spine.
    The other half drives a Mazda3s which is definitely more of a pocket rocket. Talk about great low end torque and smooth shifts, the car rocks. Wish the mpg's were better, but we've got the Civic for that. It's like an amusement park ride to me. It always puts a smile on my face when I walk into the garage and see both our cars, so I'm a happy camper.
    The wife has also decided to move up to a small luxo model for her next ride, which should be about 2010, when I can retire. Now that'll be fun when we go test driving!

    The Sandman :)
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    OK, you all have me convinced that the Civic dash works better than it looks. As one who is desparately trying to avoid bifocals (I'm only 42!), it sounds as if the speedo position may work to my advantage.

    The problem is with the Tach, since you have to drop your eyes way down, and it is kinda small.

    Well, I drove a VW New Beetle for a few years, so I'm used to the small tach.

    The other half drives a Mazda3s...

    I have a work buddy who has a Mazda 3 hatch. Nice car! Many years ago (in a previous wifetime) we owned a Protege; it's nice to see that Mazda hasn't lost the connection with that heritage.
  • redmaxxredmaxx Member Posts: 627
    Are you sure?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-V#Third_generation

    I know Wikipedia isn't the best source, but...

    Even Straightline thinks it is sharing it's platform with the RDX:

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1212?@@
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I remember reading something a while ago about the RDX and that one of the reasons it was on a new platform was the SH-AWD.

    Maybe it is a heavily modified version of the CR-V platform. I can't remember where I read that it was a new platform.
This discussion has been closed.

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