Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

anonymousposts

sounds great. Let's see if it materializes any time soon.

We have found something that may knock us off the wagon. 2003 MDX Touring with 55,000 miles for $22,000. Gray with gray leather. Clean. NAV. We'll see what they offer us for the Ody.

We also were at the Honda dealer getting the oil changed in the Accord and we sat in a new Odyssey Touring with RES/NAV. What an awesome van! But it was $40,000. The Ody is nicer than the MDX but the MDX is AWD and nearly $20,000 less than the Ody.

michaellno

Have been in serious discussions today with 2 Hyundai dealers regarding a Sonata as a replacement for the Focus.

Drove three Hyundai's last night:

'05 Elantra GT w/ auto, sunroof and ABS/TC. 138HP, sticker of $17,700
'06 Tucson GLS V6 AWD, auto, no options. 173HP, sticker of $21,xxx
'06 Sonata GL, 2.4L 4-cyl, auto, no options. 162HP, sticker of $19,480

Of the three, the daughter liked the Sonata best (andre and lemko, perhaps she's channeling you two!). Went home to think about it.

The dealer we were at only had the one GL in stock, so I went on-line to see what else is available. Found another dealer here in Denver with 10 GL auto's on the lot, including the color we were looking for (silver).

Discussions with the second dealer boiled down to a quote of $17,165 (after rebates), plus TTL for the silver GL 4 banger w/ automatic. Also, they would have to evaluate the Focus to figure out what it's worth in trade.

The dealer we were at last night called and offered the following deal:

'06 Sonata GLS V6 (the 4-cyl we drove last night got sold) for $18,165 (after rebates) + TTL, plus they offered me $8500 for the Focus, sight unseen.

I owe just over $8800 on the Focus, so this seems to be a great deal. Standard features on the Sonata GLS V6 include ABS, traction control, stability control, 6 airbags, power everything, keyless remote, fog lights and a whole bunch more.

Then, as I was mulling these offers over, my daughter called from work and put everything into a tailspin.

She wants to look further, perhaps at the Saturn ION, as it now comes with an AUX jack for her iPod standard. Her reasoning is that if she's going to drive this car for the next 3/5/7 years, she should make sure she gets what she really wants, and not just do a deal on the first car that we look at.

So, we may go take a closer look at Saturns later today. Her mom simply rolled her eyes.

anonymousposts

have to take the Hyundai over the Ion.

I still think you should give the 06 Civic a shot. It comes standard with all of the important safety features and it gets great gas mileage. It will also hold it's value well more than likely.

kyfdx

$22K for 3-year old MDX with high miles? I wouldn't... That is five years of payments at $420/month...

I'd rather go lease a Honda Pilot or Ridgeline... They have killer deals, and at the end of three years you'll probably be out less cash, and certainly less for repairs and maintenance than for that used car...

regards,
kyfdx

anonymousposts

Honda's current lease deal on the Pilot is $289 per month + tax for a EX 2WD and $1500 down. MSRP of a EX 2WD is $29,000 while MSRP of the EX-L AWD with NAV is $35,000. Over 42 months you would have to add another $119 to equal the equipment of the MDX. Now you are up to $408 per month + tax. Pretty darn close to what the MDX will cost me. Difference is that I can sell the MDX at any time and probably not lose that much money. The same probably can't be said for a car I am leasing for 42 months.

Also, the Pilot has the column shifter and the interior isn't quite as nice IMO. I'm also not thrilled with the 06 freshening of the Pilot. If we go through the credit union they will give me an extended warranty. If we don't use it they refund the entire cost. If we do use it then more than likely it has paid for itself.

We could always buy the Odyssey at the end of the lease but it's missing a couple of things we want. Also, it was a great deal when we leased it and a so-so deal if we buy it at the end. In any event, it's all contingent on what they offer us for the Odyssey.

kyfdx

If you don't like the Pilot, I understand.... though, I think you could do better than the advertised lease deal...

But, that Acura.. too many miles, plus have you seen the price of gas? :surprise:

I think you'd have a harder time getting your money back out than you think, but I do agree about the increased flexibility of owning... I'm just not wild about $22K for a car that is that used.

And, yes.. good lease deals usually make for poor purchases at lease end.. No disagreement there...

regards,
kyfdx

ghulet

I think sticker on a new Civic LX sedan with automatic is ~$17.3, and I think in the long run (the 5-7 years she will likely have the car), it will cost less in gas and depreciation than any Hyundai or Saturn, if history is any indication. Of course, the warranty on Hyundais is tempting, but that's about the best argument for buying one I can think of right now.

anonymousposts

but we have only put 16,000 miles on our Ody in close to 18 months. We might end up trading our Si too as part of this deal so we might put a few more miles on the MDX than we are on the Ody but it will not be our primary car. Gee will start driving his Lexus more and we will spend more time in the Accord. The MDX will be for trips and Home Depot/Walmart runs.

I'll admit it's not a bargain basement price but at $22000 it's right at trade value and a few grand less than what we would typically pay at a dealer. It's also $19,000 off MSRP for a new one.

We thought of it like this ... we were thinking about buying an Element which would've cost us around $20,000 + tax/accessories. For a bit more we are getting a nicer car with more options and close to the same MPG. It may have 55,000 miles but it's still an Acura so I have more faith in it than I would in a Mercedes or BMW that was out of warranty.

Although if you think it's that bad of a deal you can always pay the difference and we'll buy a new one

millspd

Hey Anonymous,

I think I remember you mentioned that your husband is pretty tall. Has he sat in the Element? I'm 6' 4" and while I had plenty of head room (though not as much as the Scion xB), the layout of the dash/steering wheel cut off the top part of the speedo for me unless I *really* reclined the seat, which defeated the point of thinking about that vehicle for me anyway.

Just thought I'd pass that along

Paul

ghulet

....and I don't think she was anywhere near 6'4". Seems like Honda should have addressed that by now, since the Element has been out for three years.

anonymousposts

Gee fit great in the Element although he likes a cozy cabin to begin with. His daily driver is a Civic Si so the Element had plenty of room to him.

chrisbgood

I still think -- at that price range and with all the features (including iPod support quite niftily) your solution is one word: MINI.

woodyww

I'm kind of psyched about your MDX idea. At first glance, the miles would turn me off, but.....it seems like you're getting a great price. And, it's an Acura. Way cooler than an Ody IMO.

woodyww

The only thing worse than one Hyundai, would be three Hyundai's. Seriously, you can buy......a new Honda Civic, or even Accord, for those prices, or less. Let's see: should I buy a Honda, a Mini, or.......a Hyundai. (Oh man, this is a tough one, gotta think). :confuse:

anonymousposts

at the Honda dealer I checked out an Accord VP, MSRP was $18,300 with automatic transmission, cruise control, power windows, side airbags & side curtain airbags, ABS, and a CD player. No iPOD hook-up but a lot of safety equipment, good gas mileage, and great crash test scores.

woody: I am excited about the MDX. I have wanted one in the past and this one seems to have the right equipment at the right price. We will see what happens.

millspd

Oh, I definitely had plenty of head room, leg room, etc. Just couldn't see a good chunk of the speedometer. :-)

My wife has an 04 Civic EX that is ok for short hops for me, but I don't think I would be happy with it as a daily driver though

akangl

Somebody would buy something!!! I mean we bought that 2006 C&B 12' dump trailer, but I don't think that counts for my CCBA membership. We are on the wagon for at least 3 more years (amount of time left on the Titan's lease), need to just chill and concentrate on our business. BTW, the Titan is doing a GREAT job for us, the harder we work her the better she gets! However, she does have her limits.........I'm going to push them hard tomorrow, hopefully she survives. Makes me feel bad to use a 1/2 ton like a 1 ton........her only downfall is she's a 1/2 ton.

fintail

I've got word of a very nice 2 owner (2nd for 30 years) 71 280SL being offered for something like 17K out of an estate. Apparently the car is red and has lowish mileage, under 100K, and is a nicely maintained example. The price seems too cheap...I can't logically justify such a purchase, and buying it would require a bit of economic reorganization...but it might be something to flip for a profit, if it is as nice as I've heard.

anonymousposts

$17,000 for a 34 year old Mercedes is much worse than $22,000 for a 2-3 year old Acura.

woodyww

I'm curious as to what older SL's are worth? I "think" you can buy a late '80's 560 SL for that kind of $$, probably with less miles. Are the older ones worth more? BTW, I have a great R&T article someplace outlining every SL version, what to look for, problems with specific years, etc.

woodyww

A few years ago, I almost bought a brand new MDX Touring. Using my brilliant decision making however, I instead bought a 2 1/2 y.o. Range Rover for almost the same price. A year later, freaking out at the thought of a LR with no warranty, I had to eat about $10K (between depreciation & maintenence costs) when I traded it. I should have bought the Acura.......btw, what's an accord "VP"?

fintail

You should be able to find a very nice 560SL for 15K, yes. A couple years ago I saw a lovely 70K mile 88 560SL, diamond blue with chrome wheels, one owner, both tops etc, for 15K. I almost wnt for it, to match my 126. It sold in a few days.

But a 107 560SL is a different animal than a 113 280SL. A nice 113 should be worth at least 50% more than a 107 - an older, prettier car.

I know the 113 problems are rust, rust, rust. Some 450SLs (75-76 IIRC) can have lots of mechanical issues. The newer 129 cars just suffer from neglect, as maintenance is pricey.

mark156

Anony, a nice '71 Mercedes will not depreciate much from $17,000 if it's a nice one and kept up. The Acura, on the other hand, will keep falling ( I know that these cars are not in the same category).

I had been reading your posting of the 55,000 mile MDX and I don't see the attraction to it or trying to compare it to a new 2006. It "IS" $19,000 cheaper than a new one and has been used accordingly and a little too much if you ask me. :confuse:

I have a 1964 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud III (white with parchment leather) that I have had for 7 years and I still can get at least what I paid for it including the few repairs that I had done. So, I've had little or no depreciation. I think the "lil" Mercedes might fall in the same category depending on the condition. Those SL's are in demand to a collector or car enthusiast.

Mark

anonymousposts

My post was made in jest. I know there's no comparing the two cars and/or deals.

The MDX is in beautiful shape. Similar MDX's at local no-haggle car dealerships are going for $25,000-$28,000. The MDX will not be used as a daily driver so we won't put more than 10,000-12,000 miles per year on it. When the Odyssey lease ends we will have to replace it with something that can haul us + stuff + my 3 nieces at times. The new Ody that I would want costs about $40,000. I could buy a new MDX but I don't feel that's necessary.

"It "IS" $19,000 cheaper than a new one and has been used accordingly and a little too much if you ask me

I don't feel a new one is worth $19,000 more than this one. Any other new small van/SUV will be just as expensive. A CR-V is $20,000+ now. For the money I'll take my chances on the 55,000 mile MDX. Sure, a thing or two might go wrong with it in which case we will fix it or just sell it and cut our losses. .

anonymousposts

The VP stands for value package. It's basically a DX with the most popular features. AC, PW,PL, and the safety stuff. But is missing the nicer trim of the higher models.

kyfdx

LOL...

anonymousposts

Gee is having the wheels and springs taken off of his Civic and having the factory equipment put back on it. We will then take it and the Ody to have them washed and see what they will give us for them. We are thinking $21,000 for the Odyssey and probably $10,000 or so for the Si. We will see what happens.

stickguy

for some reason, car makers seem to be going out of there way to keep the addicted from getting a fix. The latest offender is VW. Got all worked up about a killer lease offer on a Passat. But, after some poking around, the "driver's wanted" company decided that any driver that wants a moonroof also wants an auto tranny. Yup, they are following the Hyundai model (on the Sonata) and have decided that if you want to row your own gears, you must not like sun on your head.

But, a friend has got me perculating about a Legacy. Turns out that you can get a very nicely equipped Legacy 2.5i SE for quite an attractive price, and it seems to be pretty loaded. And get this, it can be (theoretically) had with a 5 speed and a moonroof! Probably only going to retail for about 20K that way too. Lot's of car for loaded Mazda3 money.

Now just have to go drive it to find out what the fatal flaw is (they all seem to have one..). I think lack of stereo controls on the steering wheel might be an issue, but I can accept that if it has great seats and drives nice.

Can probably also sell the AWD to the wife as a safety feature, along with all the air bags, for our son who starts driving in 1.5 years. At least he already said he wants to learn on the stick (that's my boy!)

I like the Legacy concept. A little smaller than the compitition, but still plenty of roomy for what I need, which is a little bigger than a sub compact (3/Civic/etc.), but less than a full boat barge. Kinda the mama bear car.

A legacy is probably a good car to learn on. Easy to drive, manageable size, good visibility, and safe. Not to mention built like a tank.

Geez, I'm getting all worked up. maybe I should skip the 4th grade halloween parade to go car shopping?

akangl

legacy is probably a good car to learn on. Easy to drive, manageable size, good visibility, and safe. Not to mention built like a tank.

You got the tank part right, my mom hit a full grown cow moose with her 02 Legacy, did $9500 worth of damage to the car but the car (thank goodness) remained driveable so she could seek help. Its back on the road (after a stint at the body shop) and has no ill effects........except for its fear of moose.

anonymousposts

Gee wanted one when they first started showing previews. In person though he fell out of love with it and he doesn't fit too well in the driver's seat.

I am going to miss the van. In the next hour or so we will take it and get it washed then see what they will give us for it. They are also inspecting the MDX so we have to wait and see how that goes also. We already have the approval through our credit union so now we just have to get the numbers straightened out.

michaellno

Oh man, oh man, oh man.

Saturday was crazy. Test drove the ION ... daughter deemed it suitable for her needs.

BUT....

After further discussion, I think we decided (today, at least; check back tomorrow 'cuz we may have changed our mind) that the kid doesn't really need a car at college, for the following reasons:

--> Everything she needs is on campus
--> As a student, she is entitled to a free bus pass for the city bus system
--> Mom and I can come visit when she gets homesick
--> If she doesn't have a car, she won't need to work. We can send her the money we would be spending on a car payment directly to her for an "allowance".

So, the plan is to sell the Focus outright next summer before she goes away (only about 80-90 miles from home - 2 hour drive) and then we'll become a two car family (VUE for wife and L300 for me).

Should the kid decide she really wants a car, she can first get a job and we can get her something at that time .. this way, she is not obligated to work and can concentrate on her studies.

I did, however, lay some groundwork with the wife regarding the acquisition of a Saturn SKY in a couple of years. We'll see.

anonymousposts

Your plan makes sense. However, from a CCB standpoint, I have to say "Are you sure that's what you want to do?"

stickguy

good plan, Most kids don't need a car away at school, and it certainly eliminates a major expense. Even better, it removes one thing for you each to worry about, and also a big potential for getting into trouble.

If she doesn't need it for commuting, then it will spend most of the week parked, and make it too easy to get to the mall on weekends to spend more money!

Buy yourself something nice instead. You deserve it.

lemmer

You are speaking my language here.

We have the same Odyssey, same lease, 6 months less, but we have 21K on it so we will be way over by the end.

I found a really nice '02 MDX, certified with 52K, listed at $23,995 at the Acura dealer. I am really tempted by it, but I have some of the same thoughts as Kydfx about the whole situation.

We like the Odyssey, but a lease for 24 whole months is too confining. The Pilot lease is decent, but it is for 42 freakin' months. I would take on another 24 month lease, but I can't see one much longer than that. 36 months would be a stretch.

My wife does have a little record going for buying a car every even year. When we met she had a new '94. Since then (see if you can follow me here) she bought a '96, '98, '00, '02, '04. It would ruin her streak if I didn' get her a new '06 when her lease is up.

spiritinthesky

I'll second stickguy's comments.

Too many kids - and some parents - forget what college is supposed to be for. One of the guys I went to graduate business school with didn't have a car back then and it didn't seem to hurt him. Last year, he gave the business school $55 million, it's now named after him, and he is #283 on the Forbes 400. Another frugal classmate of ours is set to receive a few hundred million when the Chiron sale is concluded.

Have her stick to the books.

woodyww

Can you pay for them to certify the MDX? A warranty would be nice on such an expensive vehicle with AWD, etc. (even an Acura), & apparently there were trans. failures on some.

I still think--for the price--it sounds like a good deal (& I'm usually a low-mileage fanatic). Unless of course there's no warranty, & the trans. went.......

michaellno

Thanks for the feedback. The CCBA side of me wants to pull the trigger on something, anything, so that I can get my Saturn back, but the logical side of me says that this is the correct course of action.

We did discuss the parking issue --- cost of parking pass + scarcity of parking places + little need to have a car, unless she has an off-campus job (and the only reason she would need a job is to pay for -- you guessed it -- the car!) --- and decided that the status can remain quo for the time being.

And, as mentioned above, should she decide that a car is necessary, we can always get her one.

We're hoping that the college experience will be good for her .. she's sorta shy and not real social and has to be forced into doing things she might not otherwise do.

I don't worry too much about her academically - she's holding a 3.9 GPA at the moment and is ranked in the top 10% of her graduating class. Currently, her goal is to pursue an undergraduate degree in Microbiology (I think) with a minor in Zoology in preparation for veterinary school - Colorado State has a top 5 ranked vet school in the US, so if all goes according to plan, she'll be up there for a good number of years.

woodyww

Holy Cow! How much could she work studying those subjects anyway? I know from experience that working a lot can really affect your studies (as can many other activities that I "researched" when in college).

*an undergraduate degree in Microbiology (I think) with a minor in Zoology*

michaellno

During our campus visit last Friday, we were shown a slide that compared GPA's of kids who work vs. kids who didn't work.

Surprisingly, kids who work have a slightly higher GPA, and the difference actually widens as you go from Frosh > Soph > Jr > Sr years. Supposedly, it is due to better time management skills. However, we're talking about a part time job of 10 to 15 hours per week and a 15 unit courseload.

woodyvw - she's always been a hard worker in school; in fact, this year (senior year of HS), her courses this semester include:
-> college algebra
-> spanish II
-> economics
-> creative writing
-> physics
-> jewelry making

next semester, she's got:
-> college algebra
-> spanish II
-> US history since 1945
-> creative writing
-> physics
-> astronomy

We'll see how things turn out .. she has to live in the dorms her freshman year, but can move off campus after that. If that's the case, it's pretty likely that she'll need a car. OTOH, a nice bicycle might work well for her, too.

mark156

Anony,...LOL... I didn't realize your post was made in jest..... I guess that's what happens when you can't hear someone's tone of voice or see their expressions on their face.

You know, I forgot my golden rule, which is... "EVERY CAR HAS A BUYER"!! I still don't see the attraction to a 3 year old 55,000 mile MDX but that's just me. As often as you and your husband change cars it's probably a good money savings but I see it as mostly used up.

I'm looking at a 2006 Jeep Commander as my 2002 Mercedes ML500 replacement in December. It's hard for me to consider another vehicle as I really like the Commander. It does bring back memories of the troubles I had with my '96 and '99 Grand Cherokee Limited's but maybe Chrysler has gotten the bugs worked out. We'll see. :surprise: I'm going to continue to read everything thing I can about the experiences of current owners with this vehicle so that I can make a better "educated" decision.

Mark

gee35coupe

"I'm looking at a 2006 Jeep Commander as my 2002 Mercedes ML500"
And you ARE hoping someone wants that ML so that you can get a decent trade. I'll let Anony go into the whole demand thing setting the price of used vehicles but I'm sure you get where I'm going.

I'll also let her describe her new MDX. But we did buy it. And it is nice. I think that makes number 37 or so in 10 years. And the next couple are in the planning stages. No more leases unless it's an AWESOME deal.

stickguy

you trade in the Civic too?

kyfdx

..no more unsolicited advice from me...

stickguy

it's like talking to your kids. They sorta listen, nod their heads at the right time, and then just go ahead and do what they wanted to do all along anyway.

ghulet

...on the MDX. I think you should be safe with it for the next few years (not that you'll have it that long), as long as it's been cared for; it's a newish car at half the price. It also should have done a great deal of its depreciation by now, as long as you don't put too many more miles on it.

Michaell, speaking from personal experience (albeit some 18 years ago), if I had college to do over again, I probably would have left the car out of the equation. I had an older, 'paid for' car, but it still caused me some financial problems and enabled me to go home on weekends a bit too much (though my situation was a bit different--when I was accepted to school, 'home' was two hours away (Park Forest to DeKalb, IL), after I started college, mom moved to St. Louis and Dad to NJ; nice, eh?). Unless she's going somewhere really rural, it's usually not too hard to get around campus, and in most cases (especially since you're two hours drive), it's not too hard to get home. IIRC, Freshman weren't technically even allowed to have cars at NIU, campus parking was a bit scarce. Almost nobody I knew had a car there.

mark156

Dear Gee, 37 cars in 10 year??? That's alot of cars! I think I'm at 14 in 25 years.

I'm hoping that trading a SUV for another SUV I'll come out OK. If the trade-in value on the ML is too far off.... I'll keep the ML or sell it to my niece at a "family" price. I'm not going to give the ML away, it looks really good for the mileage and age.

I'm sure you and Anony will have good luck with the MDX as they are nice vehicles. Personally, I like to buy cars new (except for my antique). I'm hoping that my ML will have value for someone as it has a third seat and fully loaded with nav, parktronic, 6-CD, new tires, new brakes, etc. In about a month, I'll ask Terry what he thinks the value is worth.

Obviously, we need people who love used cars as those of us who prefer new want to sell our previous cars; there has to be a balance between the two.

Congrats on the new purchase... your membership is at the Platinum for sure!

Mark

PS. I have a friend who has a 94 Lexus LS400 who uses it as a spider condo too... it's very close to 50,000 miles and my friend is trying to hold it back as long as possible before the big "roll-over"

gee35coupe

Just makes more sense to use the money for something else. It's been fun though. Another thing is that the MDX made me want something with a little more updated luxury. I also went to the "Taste of Lexus" and the new IS is really ringing my bell. I drove the LS yesterday and when I did a couple of quick transitions it reminded that it's a BIG car. With a very soft suspension. After driving the Accord and even worse, the Civic with it's Eibachs and big rear roll bar, I don't like driving the LS at all any more. The Ody had more roll stiffness.
Don't get me wrong, I still love looking at it and it's still a very nice car with years of use left in her. I just don't think those years wil be with me. I'm gonna miss it.

Now to the future...Looking forward to buying my new wheels, sidebars, hood deflector and other stuff for our new truck. And shopping for my IS for next Christmas is gonna make for a fun 2006.

lemmer

What did you get for the minivan? And what did you pay for the MDX (if you don't mind me asking)?

stickguy

gee35coupe

Paid $22.3K for the MDX. With the sales tax being covered almost totally by the difference we ended up getting the MDX for about $24.5K OTD. Not bad IMHO for a 2003 MDX Touring with 55K on it.

I'm Ebaying a lot of stuff for it as we speak..err type.