Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 16,572
    @oldfarmer50,
    The old 'Big 3' are paying a ton of money for pensions.
    I've read 4 retirees per worker.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101

    My hypothesis is that supplies will never improve the way they were before. I expect brands to keep supplies tight and limit inventory build up.

    Then, over time, they’ll start moving the invoice price of a car to be basically MSRP. See e.g. Maverick pricing. That’s when the dealer lobby will scream.

    You have to remember that union contracts may drive production as much as market demand. For years manufacturers have overproduced rather than pay their workers to do nothing.
    well, for the Domestics. Not sure that BMW or MB has that same issue.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 16,572
    @stickguy,
    That's why I think 2 those brands can try following a different strategy.
    They have invested a lot of capital in vehicle production here, so they can't easily shrink their production either.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 196,627
    stickguy said:

    My hypothesis is that supplies will never improve the way they were before. I expect brands to keep supplies tight and limit inventory build up.

    Then, over time, they’ll start moving the invoice price of a car to be basically MSRP. See e.g. Maverick pricing. That’s when the dealer lobby will scream.

    You have to remember that union contracts may drive production as much as market demand. For years manufacturers have overproduced rather than pay their workers to do nothing.
    well, for the Domestics. Not sure that BMW or MB has that same issue.
    One of the big differences with US v. German manufacturers, is that the German labor unions have a seat on the management council, and are involved in the strategic decision-making for the company.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 16,572
    Germany has a hugely bloated union workforce. I doubt if they think globally.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,312
    edited September 13
    corvette said:

    @roadburner - I've had good luck at Byerly's Ford and Nissan branches, including the Ford parts department going above and beyond to get me some touch up paint while I was waiting to have the oil changed in my Mustang. The Ford dealer in Frankfort (where I purchased the G37) also performed the three free oil changes they gave me without issue.

    If I decide on a 400Z it will be bought from Byerly. My wife was interested in a 370Z 50th Anniversary car at one point, and the salesman I talked to couldn't have been more helpful. Kings Ford in Cincy is first rate, but BTDT with Kings Mazda and my MS3.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 19,090
    Michaell said:

    stickguy said:

    My hypothesis is that supplies will never improve the way they were before. I expect brands to keep supplies tight and limit inventory build up.

    Then, over time, they’ll start moving the invoice price of a car to be basically MSRP. See e.g. Maverick pricing. That’s when the dealer lobby will scream.

    You have to remember that union contracts may drive production as much as market demand. For years manufacturers have overproduced rather than pay their workers to do nothing.
    well, for the Domestics. Not sure that BMW or MB has that same issue.
    One of the big differences with US v. German manufacturers, is that the German labor unions have a seat on the management council, and are involved in the strategic decision-making for the company.
    Chrysler tried that. Make your own judgement on the result.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 196,627

    Michaell said:

    stickguy said:

    My hypothesis is that supplies will never improve the way they were before. I expect brands to keep supplies tight and limit inventory build up.

    Then, over time, they’ll start moving the invoice price of a car to be basically MSRP. See e.g. Maverick pricing. That’s when the dealer lobby will scream.

    You have to remember that union contracts may drive production as much as market demand. For years manufacturers have overproduced rather than pay their workers to do nothing.
    well, for the Domestics. Not sure that BMW or MB has that same issue.
    One of the big differences with US v. German manufacturers, is that the German labor unions have a seat on the management council, and are involved in the strategic decision-making for the company.
    Chrysler tried that. Make your own judgement on the result.
    Chrysler didn't have a choice, as they were acquired by Daimler Benz.

    The book "Taken for a Ride" does a great job of examining the merger of the two companies.

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  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,026
    edited September 14
    Michaell said:

    Michaell said:

    stickguy said:

    My hypothesis is that supplies will never improve the way they were before. I expect brands to keep supplies tight and limit inventory build up.

    Then, over time, they’ll start moving the invoice price of a car to be basically MSRP. See e.g. Maverick pricing. That’s when the dealer lobby will scream.

    You have to remember that union contracts may drive production as much as market demand. For years manufacturers have overproduced rather than pay their workers to do nothing.
    well, for the Domestics. Not sure that BMW or MB has that same issue.
    One of the big differences with US v. German manufacturers, is that the German labor unions have a seat on the management council, and are involved in the strategic decision-making for the company.
    Chrysler tried that. Make your own judgement on the result.
    Chrysler didn't have a choice, as they were acquired by Daimler Benz.

    The book "Taken for a Ride" does a great job of examining the merger of the two companies.
    I read that book years ago. It made me a little mad as Chrysler was tarred and feathered, taken advantage of. Such is corporate strategy.

    If I recall correctly the 'merger' was presented as a 'Merger of Equals'. Hardly. Chrysler leadership were certainly gullible and 'Taken for a Ride'. Chrysler hasn't been the same since.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 19,090
    Michaell said:

    Michaell said:

    stickguy said:

    My hypothesis is that supplies will never improve the way they were before. I expect brands to keep supplies tight and limit inventory build up.

    Then, over time, they’ll start moving the invoice price of a car to be basically MSRP. See e.g. Maverick pricing. That’s when the dealer lobby will scream.

    You have to remember that union contracts may drive production as much as market demand. For years manufacturers have overproduced rather than pay their workers to do nothing.
    well, for the Domestics. Not sure that BMW or MB has that same issue.
    One of the big differences with US v. German manufacturers, is that the German labor unions have a seat on the management council, and are involved in the strategic decision-making for the company.
    Chrysler tried that. Make your own judgement on the result.
    Chrysler didn't have a choice, as they were acquired by Daimler Benz.

    The book "Taken for a Ride" does a great job of examining the merger of the two companies.
    I could be wrong but wasn’t one of the conditions of a previous government bailout (1980?) that a union member be placed on the board?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,111
    we all know I'm weird. So no need to bring it up. But, I really dig this as an oddball 4x4.
    https://www.duncanimports.com/certified/Mitsubishi/1995-Mitsubishi-RVR-c839830b0a0e0adf0b3b891414c0f4df.htm

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    Looks like Ford is revamping all the pick ups.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    And here’s one for Sandy.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 15,964
    I saw that Ranger video yesterday. The Ranger was an old design when they introduced it here and that showed up in the middling responses it got in various comparison tests vs the GM twins and the Tacoma. Not sure if this latest version is a new design or a significant refresh. I know I don't see too many Rangers on the roads locally as compared to the two competitive makes. I wonder how well it has done sales-wise.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 196,627
    Each morning, I get news feeds from several outlets put into my inbox. One of them is the LA Times, where one section is an article from their archives. From today's edition:

    From the Sept. 14, 1973, Los Angeles Times: “A new Department of Motor Vehicles policy which provides for the recall of ‘offensive’ personalized license plates is not yet two weeks old, and it is already being challenged.

    “The DMV, which began issuing personalized plates in 1970, now has the legislative authority to recall issued plates ‘if they are considered offensive to good taste and decency.’

    “Last week the first recall notices were sent to Californians.”

    Among the challengers was 39-year-old Encino builder and accountant Burt Blum, who told The Times, “It is a restraint of free expression. Who has the right to decide what’s decent or indecent?”



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  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,026
    There are a number of newer Rangers in this area. I know of two in our neighborhood. They are handsome trucks though question why Ford would introduce an old design to our market as new. The press has emphasized that aspect. I hope the refresh is extensive and addresses the poor ride and chunky, cheap looking interior.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    I see quite a few. Nice looking.

    I believe the redesign is really that, not just a refresh. With lots of US design input, so expect a smaller F150 complete with huge, blocky front end.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    Or Cosmo Kramer.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,004
    edited September 14

    @stickguy said:
    Or Cosmo Kramer.

    Azzman :)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 15,059
    edited September 14
    stickguy said:

    Or Cosmo Kramer.

    One of my all time favorite episodes!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 19,090
    qbrozen said:

    we all know I'm weird. So no need to bring it up. But, I really dig this as an oddball 4x4.
    https://www.duncanimports.com/certified/Mitsubishi/1995-Mitsubishi-RVR-c839830b0a0e0adf0b3b891414c0f4df.htm

    I’m a Mitsubishi fan mainly for the smoothness of the motors. The last actual Mitsu car that attracted me was the 4G Eclipse which was flawless in the 7 years I owned it.

    Today I have to settle for a Mitsubishi engine in my Chrysler.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    Cute little thing. Like the small Expo from back in the 80s

    If it was LHD and a stick, I wouldn’t mind having it!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 19,090
    stickguy said:

    Looks like Ford is revamping all the pick ups.

    My understanding is that the current Ranger was always a sort of place holder until new designs were ready. I’m looking forward to this new one.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,111
    I'm finally on the hunt for a shop to which my AMG shall go. So far, I have reached out to 3 of them. One at a time, giving some time in between for a reply. In my email, I give a brief rundown: head bolts, plugs, cam and crank sensors, and some other odds and ends replaced; still running a tad rough (but no CEL) and still has a mystery slow oil leak; new TPMS sensors that need programming; tailgate not functioning, which may just be programming as well.

    First found one with good reviews on the edge of my town. Emailed him and received a reply by end of day. I appreciate his reply. He stated these engines are known to be rough, so it might not be anything, but he'll take a look at that and the oil leak. Unfortunately, he does not have the ability to program. Dang. So much for being an MB specialist. Oh, and he is 2 weeks out anyway, so reach back out to him in 2 weeks.

    2nd candidate has yet to reply, so I sent to a third shop this morn. Will wait and see if I get a reply before moving on to number 4 tomorrow.

    Aside from that, I took it this morn to get breakfast. I discovered a new button! I always wondered why the heck the transmission indicator had S next to it and did not change regardless of selecting Sport, Normal, or Comfort on the suspension. Well, this button, which is a circle with the letters C-M-S going around it, changes the trans from Comfort to Sport to Manual. And damn if it didn't work! While I despise that it wants to start out in 2nd gear in Comfort, the shifts are totally imperceptible, vs sport where it jolts through the gears. I dunno. I go back and forth. I think I want to sell to not fret about the repairs, but then I drive it. It is so comfy and stupid fast.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    Ship it to Kansas and let the car wizard work on it!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    Or try these guys. Not as close to you of course, but they have a great reputation. If I’d ever gotten a used BMW it would have gone here. They do MB also.

    https://www.bimmershops.com/new-jersey/md-motorwerke-inc-somerdale-nj

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    Road test of the official SUV of CCBA.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • au1994au1994 GAMember Posts: 2,516
    Not a bad review.

    I could sit and watch those old Motorweek episodes on Youtube for hours. Do yourself a favor and find the mid 80’s Cutlass Supreme review. The quality problems they find are laughable.

    2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe Granite Crystal over Saddle
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    I was always amazed when reviewers got cars that were a mess. Would figure somebody would make sure those were fixed before handing over.

    Can only imagine how bad customer cars were.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 15,964
    Michaell said:

    Each morning, I get news feeds from several outlets put into my inbox. One of them is the LA Times, where one section is an article from their archives.

    I used to receive that as well, and for years it was very good. Then the paper changed, with different editors, ownership, and lots of staff churn. The morning digest and the stories it contained became largely worthless, with lots of (I hate to use the term) Woke stories and self-indulgent essays by the writer compiling the digest. I unsubscribed a few years ago and haven’t returned.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,911
    qbrozen said:

    I'm finally on the hunt for a shop to which my AMG shall go. So far, I have reached out to 3 of them.

    You have had better responses than I have in looking for a new property manager for one of my rentals. :@
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    I need some stuff done on my house. At this point, anybody that will come out and actually give a quote gets the job, unless they are truly scary!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,111
    We booked a painter a few weeks ago who is supposed to be here 9/20. Fingers crossed.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,026
    au1994 said:

    Not a bad review.

    I could sit and watch those old Motorweek episodes on Youtube for hours. Do yourself a favor and find the mid 80’s Cutlass Supreme review. The quality problems they find are laughable.

    And the Big 3 (4 AMC?) were dumbfounded that market share was quickly lost to imports??

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • ventureventure Central PAMember Posts: 2,190
    qbrozen said:

    we all know I'm weird. So no need to bring it up. But, I really dig this as an oddball 4x4.
    https://www.duncanimports.com/certified/Mitsubishi/1995-Mitsubishi-RVR-c839830b0a0e0adf0b3b891414c0f4df.htm


    2020 Ascent Limited, 2020 Legacy Touring XT

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,004

    @au1994 said:
    Not a bad review.

    I could sit and watch those old Motorweek episodes on Youtube for hours. Do yourself a favor and find the mid 80’s Cutlass Supreme review. The quality problems they find are laughable.

    Wow I googled it. Oldsmobile tag fell off and chrome piece not flush. Period correct :)

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,004
    edited September 14

    @stickguy said:
    Or try these guys. Not as close to you of course, but they have a great reputation. If I’d ever gotten a used BMW it would have gone here. They do MB also.

    https://www.bimmershops.com/new-jersey/md-motorwerke-inc-somerdale-nj

    It’s a Mercedes, I’m surprised they would do MB /AMG as well. Maybe they have both computers??

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    they do. and dealer trained techs.

    At least they are both German brands so makes some sense!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • tifightertifighter WAMember Posts: 2,951
    Looks like the new 3 will be ready for pickup on Friday. Ordered 8/26, so less than a month, so no complaints. But I think the back log for performance models is shorter. I have a friend who ordered a Y LR at the beginning of August, and they're still showing November delivery.

    21 Tesla 3 Perf / 21 Tesla Y LR / 11 BMW Z4 6MT

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,111

    Thanks for the reccos, stick, but I’m going to try to look closer for now only because wife will have to follow and drive me home, then drive me back when its done.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 15,059

    @tifighter said:
    Looks like the new 3 will be ready for pickup on Friday. Ordered 8/26, so less than a month, so no complaints. But I think the back log for performance models is shorter. I have a friend who ordered a Y LR at the beginning of August, and they're still showing November delivery.

    I think I mentioned this, but my best friend ordered a SR Model 3 for his wife sometime in July that was supposed to be ready for late August. Tesla kept pushing the date back. When mid August came, the date was now pushed back to November. They gave up and leased a new Q5.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,026
    nyccarguy said:

    @tifighter said:

    Looks like the new 3 will be ready for pickup on Friday. Ordered 8/26, so less than a month, so no complaints. But I think the back log for performance models is shorter. I have a friend who ordered a Y LR at the beginning of August, and they're still showing November delivery.

    I think I mentioned this, but my best friend ordered a SR Model 3 for his wife sometime in July that was supposed to be ready for late August. Tesla kept pushing the date back. When mid August came, the date was now pushed back to November. They gave up and leased a new Q5.


    I think that type scenario will happen over and over if manufacturers delay too much from the original delivery date.

    I hope things are going ok after the flooding. Before we were married my wife’s house burned due to a lightning strike. I remember helping her thru the process of insurance, reconstruction and replacing items, furniture, etc. Hang in there.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 15,059

    @sda said:
    I think that type scenario will happen over and over if manufacturers delay too much from the original delivery date.

    I hope things are going ok after the flooding. Before we were married my wife’s house burned due to a lightning strike. I remember helping her thru the process of insurance, reconstruction and replacing items, furniture, etc. Hang in there.

    Things are going well thanks. Holes are still open in the walls and the fans are still blowing non stop. I’ve been thinking about what we are going to do with it. Get some shelves. Take some things out of the garage and put them down there (beach toys, beach chairs, ping pong table). Make sure there is plenty of room in the garage for her Pilot.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 12,864

    @mjfloyd1 said:

    @au1994 said:
    Not a bad review.

    I could sit and watch those old Motorweek episodes on Youtube for hours. Do yourself a favor and find the mid 80’s Cutlass Supreme review. The quality problems they find are laughable.

    Wow I googled it. Oldsmobile tag fell off and chrome piece not flush. Period correct :)

    I watched it. What an oddball test car. It had all the luxury bits along with T-tops and the better suspension. Could you imagine any car today having trim issues like that? I also found the braking to be eye opening. ABS has been standard for so long we probably all forget how sketchy cars could be on a panic stop.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,004

    @tjc78 said:

    @mjfloyd1 said:

    @au1994 said:
    Not a bad review.

    I could sit and watch those old Motorweek episodes on Youtube for hours. Do yourself a favor and find the mid 80’s Cutlass Supreme review. The quality problems they find are laughable.

    Wow I googled it. Oldsmobile tag fell off and chrome piece not flush. Period correct :)

    I watched it. What an oddball test car. It had all the luxury bits along with T-tops and the better suspension. Could you imagine any car today having trim issues like that? I also found the braking to be eye opening. ABS has been standard for so long we probably all forget how sketchy cars could be on a panic stop.

    Nah, I’ve got a 63 with non-power drum brakes. It’s always a mystery as to which wheel will lock up when someone pulls out in front of me…

    Agreed though, you take good brakes for granted.

    That crushed velour interior is a real throwback too

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 44,101
    true on brakes. When I had the Nissan PU you had to be real careful hitting the brakes if the back end was light (and I think that one had some sort of rear wheel anti lock?) But cresting a hill or in the wet, not too hard to lose it.

    I remember in my HS days when I had my Duster with all drums, leaving a parking lot where there was a dip just before the main road that would fill with water. Went through the big puddle with splashed water up to the windows, then got to the stop sign and hit the brakes. And just kept going without slowing down at all. Thankfully nobody was coming at that moment. Learned something that day!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,911
    I must have watched the wrong Motorweek Cutlass video--they only complained about a warped dash in the one I saw.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,810
    edited September 14
    sda said:

    Michaell said:

    Michaell said:

    stickguy said:

    My hypothesis is that supplies will never improve the way they were before. I expect brands to keep supplies tight and limit inventory build up.

    Then, over time, they’ll start moving the invoice price of a car to be basically MSRP. See e.g. Maverick pricing. That’s when the dealer lobby will scream.

    You have to remember that union contracts may drive production as much as market demand. For years manufacturers have overproduced rather than pay their workers to do nothing.
    well, for the Domestics. Not sure that BMW or MB has that same issue.
    One of the big differences with US v. German manufacturers, is that the German labor unions have a seat on the management council, and are involved in the strategic decision-making for the company.
    Chrysler tried that. Make your own judgement on the result.
    Chrysler didn't have a choice, as they were acquired by Daimler Benz.

    The book "Taken for a Ride" does a great job of examining the merger of the two companies.
    I read that book years ago. It made me a little mad as Chrysler was tarred and feathered, taken advantage of. Such is corporate strategy.

    If I recall correctly the 'merger' was presented as a 'Merger of Equals'. Hardly. Chrysler leadership were certainly gullible and 'Taken for a Ride'. Chrysler hasn't been the same since.
    Chrysler wasn't recovering from the product of the 90's without another bailout the following decade, merger or not. So they haven't been the same since the Dodge Neon was invented, if you ask me.

    https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/16105/dodge/neon/dodge-plymouth-neon-transmission-suspension

    Head Gasket Replacement : $929 -$1,071
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    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,004

    @corvette said:
    I must have watched the wrong Motorweek Cutlass video--they only complained about a warped dash in the one I saw.

    Google “1984 Oldsmobile cutlass supreme motorweek review”

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