Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

breld

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

IMHO, EV's will take off when someone brings to market a vehicle that retails for $30K, has 200+ miles of range, and can go from 10% to 80% charged in 15 minutes through a level 3 charger.

Until then, they will be a novelty to most of the motoring public.

I would add that they need better vroom vroom noises, too. ;b

The Tesla "gas-emissions" sound effects don't do it for you?

If not for you, I guarantee they will be a hit with the kids.

breld

From what I can tell, the new Hyundai and Kia EV offerings are true competitors, which of course is great for the market.

One of current magazines has an article on the Ioniq5 that declares, "why would you buy a Model Y?"

Then the article goes on to say something along the lines of, "other than the Tesla having quicker acceleration, a sportier drive and a more established charging network, we don't know why you'd pick the Tesla over the Ioniq5."

I think those three reasons pointed out are all very solid reasons to pick the Tesla.

breld

Here's the actual sentence from the article...

The Model Y is quicker and sportier, and the Supercharger network is currently more reliable and easier to use than the non-uniform charging options for everyone else, but that and brand prestige are all the Tesla really wins on.

Again, I'm all for the competition offered by Hyundai and Kia, and I obviously chose the Polestar 2 over the Model Y, but let's not minimize what the Tesla products have to offer!

benjaminh

My prediction earlier today that by December of 2022 the Telsa Model 3 would sell more than the Toyota Camry in the US was late. It's already happened.

For the first three months of 2022 Tesla is already selling an average of about 44,000 Model 3s a month.

For the first three months of 2022 Toyota has sold an average 20,500 Camry's a month.

Total sales in the US so far for Jan-March: Camry=61,505, while the Model 3 is at 132,766. The Model 3 is already selling twice as fast as the Camry.

I'm surprised. Thought I'd see a headline or something about when the Model 3 passed the Camry.

Based on the first 3 months it seems likely that Tesla will sell over 500,000 units of the Model 3 in 2022. But actually, all during this year the Austin factory is going to be increasing production, and so it's more likely that more than 700,000 Model 3s will be sold during calendar year 2022. I don't think anyone has sold that many of one model of a sedan since 1970s.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/tesla-model-3-sales-figures-usa-canada/

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota-camry-sales-figures/

xwesx

corvette said:

Arrived in Phoenix today. The line at the Budget / Avis and Enterprise counters was insanely long. Hertz was much shorter but only two employees working. Downloaded the app and was able to get signed in and upload my dox before it was my turn. I should have figured that out beforehand, but this is my first time renting in over a year.

Prices for rentals is still insane. Not as insane as it was last summer, but insane nonetheless. I just did a reservation for a vehicle next month out of Seattle.... around $700 for five days.

stickguy

Dennis Collins (COffee walk channel) every week shows one of his trips to buy some old car. usually he flies and rents. he has been showing some of the rental costs (usually for a Jeep). Some of them were absurd, like $500 for 1 day. A couple weeks ago he found some start up type rental place (name escapes me) off airport in someplace like Chicago or St. Louis maybe that was a Gladiator for $100/day.

I think these days, really need to shop around. and airport counters are going to be particularly bad.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

Yes. I have effectively reserved the right to acquire a third car at some point in the future. But that time is not now.

The added complexity is that my wife can’t drive it making its existence in car Tetris a continual friction point.

Well, I don't know about that. I would just tell her, "If you want it out of the garage, you're going to have to learn to drive it so you can move it yourself." Hahahahahaha /ducks

xwesx

Sandman6472 said:

Wish we had a circular drive as our driveway can only fit two back to back an getting into my side if there's one at the end of my side takes some movements back & forth and of course the wife's side empty. But have done it numerous times as we usually use the Hyundai when she's visiting, like now. Dropped mine at the mechanic last night & so far, no word...betting they'll be doing the oil/filter swap as we're so close to June anyways and he's got it, so why not do it. No idea about the brake pedal but will just have to wait. Will use the Hyundai to go to physical therapy later & can always pick mine up later tonight or even tomorrow afternoon. Will just take the Hyundai to work & then drop it back home first thing after clocking in. Have done it before so no big deal as we're so close to our office from home.
This stuff is small potatoes as we're still dealing with internet issues and the home phone & fax are both not working properly. Since the wife works from home & needs the internet, this ain't good!!!

Ouch. Bad time of year for that with tax season in its fevered pitch! Good luck with getting it resolved quickly and to your (her) satisfaction.

henryn

xwesx said:

corvette said:

Arrived in Phoenix today. The line at the Budget / Avis and Enterprise counters was insanely long. Hertz was much shorter but only two employees working. Downloaded the app and was able to get signed in and upload my dox before it was my turn. I should have figured that out beforehand, but this is my first time renting in over a year.

Prices for rentals is still insane. Not as insane as it was last summer, but insane nonetheless. I just did a reservation for a vehicle next month out of Seattle.... around $700 for five days.

I can remember when $700 would buy you a pretty decent beater (or hooptie as some would call it). I can remember so far back that I was able to buy running cars for $100. Yes, they ran, yes, I drove them home, and no, they didn't fall apart in the first month. Off hand, I remember a 1957 Ford, a 1959 Chevrolet, and a 1961 Oldsmobile. That Olds was the smaller model, I can't recall the model name. One of the few Olds that I have ever seen with a 3 speed standard transmission. My girl friend at the time was driving the Olds back and forth to work, and she drove home through one of our infamous Houston floods in that car. I remember having to pull all of the carpet to replace the carpet pad, which of course always rots after it gets wet.

xwesx

Okay, so no kidding about the cost differential on rentals for airport versus local stores. Looks like I can save better than 30% if I book at a location that's a mere five miles from the airport. Now, the question is whether I want to deal with the added logistics....

henryn

Sandman6472 said:

This stuff is small potatoes as we're still dealing with internet issues and the home phone & fax are both not working properly. Since the wife works from home & needs the internet, this ain't good!!!

If I'm interpreting your remarks correctly, the internet itself is working, but you have phone and fax running as VOIP off of the internet service? And the VOIP is giving you trouble?

pensfan83

xwesx said:

28firefighter said:

Yes. I have effectively reserved the right to acquire a third car at some point in the future. But that time is not now.

The added complexity is that my wife can’t drive it making its existence in car Tetris a continual friction point.

Well, I don't know about that. I would just tell her, "If you want it out of the garage, you're going to have to learn to drive it so you can move it yourself." Hahahahahaha /ducks

In 2017 when my A4 lease was maturing I offered to teach her how to drive it since I wasn't worried about the clutch at that point. That conversation absolutely went no where and pretty much ended any thought of having another manual DD.

Michaell

When I met my wife, she only drove stick shift cars.

When we leased the Expedition in '99, that was the first automatic she'd driven. Took her some getting used to the idea of not having engine braking available, and to show her how to manually downshift with the lever.

She won't go back, now.

xwesx

My wife is interesting in that regard.

When I met her, she really wanted to learn how to drive a manual, but the person who taught her to drive wouldn't let her drive his pickup because he said she "had a lead foot." Which is really funny, because she's about as far away from a spirited driver as one can get.

I taught her to drive my '69 C20, but she never really took to it. She was fairly pensive with it, even though she did log a lot of seat time. As such, when we bought our first car together, the '96 Outback, I insisted on it being an automatic because she'd be using it all the time. However, when we lost that car and needed to replace it in early 2007, she said she wanted a manual Outback. I asked her several times, "are you SURE?! Because, we're not going to get one, have you decide you don't like it, and then need to turn around and replace it right away." Eventually, with her not relenting, I took her to the dealer to test drive one (yes, they actually had one on the lot!). Amazingly, even though she still didn't drive the C20 well, she took to the Subaru like a fish in water. Heck, I still don't drive our manual Subes very well because their engines are just so light on torque (I tend to stall or over-rev them on take-off more than I would care to) compared to what I grew up driving (tractors, dump trucks, pickups, etc.), but not her.... she's like the Subie Whisperer.

It is nearly thirteen years now of her driving manual cars as her dailies. I'm sure the era will come to a close at some point, but I certainly don't have to worry about her not being able to move any of the cars anywhere she wants (except OUT, which she's threatened more than a time or two).

kyfdx

My wife grew up on a farm, and can drive a stick, but hadn't attempted in a long time, at the time we were married. (1993)

I convinced her to "re-learn", and she did relatively well, when she was required to drive my car.

But, I had an automatic CR-V from 2002-2008, and that was that. She hasn't driven a stick since 2002, and won't even consider it.

breld

I'm not touching the subject of wives driving manual trannies.

andres3

I need to get my wife to join me at an HPDE Weekend.....

She can track the S4 while I track the TTS. The S4 at her "beginner" student pace will be fine as-is; maybe get some decent brake pads at most.

So far I've been unsuccessful, but that was when I was saying we could both beat the A3 in back to back sessions (or she could have tracked the All Track when we had it).

She doesn't seem at all interested, but I'd like her to "advance" her driving skill. Everyone should do a HPDE weekend at least once each decade.

jmonroe1

@andres3 said:
I need to get my wife to join me at an HPDE Weekend.....

She can track the S4 while I track the TTS. The S4 at her "beginner" student pace will be fine as-is; maybe get some decent brake pads at most.

So far I've been unsuccessful, but that was when I was saying we could both beat the A3 in back to back sessions (or she could have tracked the All Track when we had it).

She doesn't seem at all interested, but I'd like her to "advance" her driving skill. Everyone should do a HPDE weekend at least once each decade.

Maybe so but somehow I’ve survived 6 decades without doing that.

Not bragging or complaining, just stating the facts.

jmonroe

Sandman6472

Right now, the internet comes & goes but our 2 phone lines aren't working properly since last Friday. Didn't know that so will have to call back to get a credit for that also. No sense paying for a service I'm not getting honestly. And yes, my wife is passed pissed off right now as with less than one week to go for tax season, this kind of stuff ain't supposed to be happening!

roadburner

Michaell said:

IMHO, EV's will take off when someone brings to market a vehicle that retails for $30K, has 200+ miles of range, and can go from 10% to 80% charged in 15 minutes through a level 3 charger.

Until then, they will be a novelty to most of the motoring public.

I have a similar view; I think that EV prices need to be equivalent to a similar sized IC car without any subsidies, a 300 mile range, a 10 minute charge to 80%, and charging spots need to be almost as common as gas pumps.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:

The local Alfa Dealer has a new Giulia Veloce in stock; Vesuvio Gray over Red leather. Four things keep me from buying it.
1. AWD- the only AWD cars I'd consider would be the GR Corolla, the WRX, and the M5 CS.
2. It's not as quick as I like; Alfa needs a model to slot between the Veloce and the Quadrifoglio.
3. Depreciation
4. Reliability and dealing with the local Alfa store for service.
It sure is handsome, though

Have you driven one yet?
I agree that they desperately need an in-between model, but the handling is so darned good that you don't quite miss the 1-sec 0-60 like you think you would.

I'll put it this way: whereas the acceleration compares to the 330xi, the overall package is so much better that it feels more like a 340 msport competitor.

Yes, I drove a Ti Sport in 2019. AWD just kills it for me.
And one concern I forgot to mention- the very real possibility Alfa will exit the US market in 4-5 years...

Sandman6472

Right now, the internet comes & goes but our 2 phone lines aren't working at all. Coming tomorrow to fix...we hope!!!
The Golf didn't need anything done to the brakes, they insisted they were fine. Did get the oil & filter swapped out since they had the vehicle anyways so good for another year. Glad to have it back on my side of the garage though.

Michaell

So, what gives?

Just ran the daughter's MINI through Carvana. 2015 Countryman S ALL4, 55,000 miles, good condition inside and out.

Carvana came back with just over $12K on the buy bid; Vroom is at just under $11K.

However, when I go to cars.com and look at all the available 2015 Countryman S ALL4's for sale, nationally, with under 60,000 miles, I get a range of $17,990 to $25,799.

Seems like I might do a lot better selling it myself.

sda

Michaell said:

So, what gives?

Just ran the daughter's MINI through Carvana. 2015 Countryman S ALL4, 55,000 miles, good condition inside and out.

Carvana came back with just over $12K on the buy bid; Vroom is at just under $11K.

However, when I go to cars.com and look at all the available 2015 Countryman S ALL4's for sale, nationally, with under 60,000 miles, I get a range of $17,990 to $25,799.

Seems like I might do a lot better selling it myself.

Perhaps Carvana and Vroom currently have enough vehicles and don’t feel the need to give top dollar. Bubble burst?

Michaell

sda said:

Michaell said:

So, what gives?

Just ran the daughter's MINI through Carvana. 2015 Countryman S ALL4, 55,000 miles, good condition inside and out.

Carvana came back with just over $12K on the buy bid; Vroom is at just under $11K.

However, when I go to cars.com and look at all the available 2015 Countryman S ALL4's for sale, nationally, with under 60,000 miles, I get a range of $17,990 to $25,799.

Seems like I might do a lot better selling it myself.

Perhaps Carvana and Vroom currently have enough vehicles and don’t feel the need to give top dollar. Bubble burst?

Perhaps.

I did the same with my BIL's Q50. Everything for sale was between $27K and $33K, nationally.

oldfarmer50

Sandman6472 said:

Michael, totally agree with your last comment. I'm the perfect candidate to buy an EV right now but those reasons listed are why I'm not jumping on the Ioniq5 at this time. Really like that EV though I'd consider the Chevy Bolt also due to its smaller size. Both would work for my needs right now & honestly think I'd be fine with either. But those entry prices are just too much right now!!!

I saw my first Chevy Bolt today and it is TINY.

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

Sandman6472 said:

Michael, totally agree with your last comment. I'm the perfect candidate to buy an EV right now but those reasons listed are why I'm not jumping on the Ioniq5 at this time. Really like that EV though I'd consider the Chevy Bolt also due to its smaller size. Both would work for my needs right now & honestly think I'd be fine with either. But those entry prices are just too much right now!!!

I saw my first Chevy Bolt today and it is TINY.

It's not too bad. I know @breld test drove one, and he's 6-foot-something and managed to fit just fine.

oldfarmer50

xwesx said:

My wife is interesting in that regard.

When I met her, she really wanted to learn how to drive a manual, but the person who taught her to drive wouldn't let her drive his pickup because he said she "had a lead foot." Which is really funny, because she's about as far away from a spirited driver as one can get.

I taught her to drive my '69 C20, but she never really took to it. She was fairly pensive with it, even though she did log a lot of seat time. As such, when we bought our first car together, the '96 Outback, I insisted on it being an automatic because she'd be using it all the time. However, when we lost that car and needed to replace it in early 2007, she said she wanted a manual Outback. I asked her several times, "are you SURE?! Because, we're not going to get one, have you decide you don't like it, and then need to turn around and replace it right away." Eventually, with her not relenting, I took her to the dealer to test drive one (yes, they actually had one on the lot!). Amazingly, even though she still didn't drive the C20 well, she took to the Subaru like a fish in water. Heck, I still don't drive our manual Subes very well because their engines are just so light on torque (I tend to stall or over-rev them on take-off more than I would care to) compared to what I grew up driving (tractors, dump trucks, pickups, etc.), but not her.... she's like the Subie Whisperer.

It is nearly thirteen years now of her driving manual cars as her dailies. I'm sure the era will come to a close at some point, but I certainly don't have to worry about her not being able to move any of the cars anywhere she wants (except OUT, which she's threatened more than a time or two).

It might be clutch pedal feel. I drove standard shift school buses or cargo vans that had a very heavy clutch. I got used to that being the norm. When I test drove a standard shift Mustang the light clutch and short throw shifter felt so weird that I choose an automatic instead.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

xwesx said:

corvette said:

Arrived in Phoenix today. The line at the Budget / Avis and Enterprise counters was insanely long. Hertz was much shorter but only two employees working. Downloaded the app and was able to get signed in and upload my dox before it was my turn. I should have figured that out beforehand, but this is my first time renting in over a year.

Prices for rentals is still insane. Not as insane as it was last summer, but insane nonetheless. I just did a reservation for a vehicle next month out of Seattle.... around $700 for five days.

I can remember when $700 would buy you a pretty decent beater (or hooptie as some would call it). I can remember so far back that I was able to buy running cars for $100. Yes, they ran, yes, I drove them home, and no, they didn't fall apart in the first month. Off hand, I remember a 1957 Ford, a 1959 Chevrolet, and a 1961 Oldsmobile. That Olds was the smaller model, I can't recall the model name. One of the few Olds that I have ever seen with a 3 speed standard transmission. My girl friend at the time was driving the Olds back and forth to work, and she drove home through one of our infamous Houston floods in that car. I remember having to pull all of the carpet to replace the carpet pad, which of course always rots after it gets wet.

As recently as 2018 $2000 could buy you a cheap convertible on which everything worked and wasn’t rusted. Today I bet I couldn’t touch even my hooptie for twice that.

stickguy

I actually thought Alfa was already done in the US. Not on my shopping list, that is for sure.

dad23

Michaell said:

So, what gives?

Just ran the daughter's MINI through Carvana. 2015 Countryman S ALL4, 55,000 miles, good condition inside and out.

Carvana came back with just over $12K on the buy bid; Vroom is at just under $11K.

However, when I go to cars.com and look at all the available 2015 Countryman S ALL4's for sale, nationally, with under 60,000 miles, I get a range of $17,990 to $25,799.

Seems like I might do a lot better selling it myself.

We ran the Tacoma through a few of those over the past few weeks, most came back right around $40k. I ran it through CarFax and they pegged it at $42k. I got an email from Groove Ford asking me to bring it, we were close by over the weekend, so I did. I figured they'd say $40k as well but said they'd be a buyer at $42k.

Michaell

***UPDATE*** - I got the year wrong, it's a 2014 MINI (the Subaru is the 2015).

Not a huge difference in asking prices through cars.com, however - still range from $17K to about $23K for examples with under 60,000 miles.

corvette

xwesx said:

Prices for rentals is still insane. Not as insane as it was last summer, but insane nonetheless. I just did a reservation for a vehicle next month out of Seattle.... around $700 for five days.

Plug your reservation into Autoslash and it will email you if/when it finds a better deal.

stickguy

Price gives me heart palpitations, but I live this car. Great color combo and a plug in. https://www.stadelmotors.com/certified/Volvo/2021-Volvo-XC60+Recharge+Plug-In+Hybrid-for-sale-lancaster-pa-b3997cf20a0e09af5ebcf6ab23da0faf.htm

benjaminh

Honda plans to invest $40 billion in EV development and production over the next ten years. Like some others, they are also planning to shift somewhat from just selling a vehicle to instead selling the vehicle plus annual or monthly subscriptions. They already do this to a degree with things like AcuraLink, which is a connection and button in your car that calls local 911 if your airbags deploy. With the "premium" plan, which I don't have, you also get a concierge to make hotel and restaurant reservations and whatever else they do. And I already pay an annual fee for XM radio. Anyway, I feel mixed about all this, but at least Honda has a plan—even if they seem to be about 4 years behind Tesla and the other major EV players.

https://www.autonews.com/video/first-shift/first-shift-honda-launch-30-full-evs-2030-40b-push

explorerx4

The wheels on that Volvo look like Fusion Titanium wheels.

henryn

Sandman6472 said:

Right now, the internet comes & goes but our 2 phone lines aren't working at all. Coming tomorrow to fix...we hope!!!
The Golf didn't need anything done to the brakes, they insisted they were fine. Did get the oil & filter swapped out since they had the vehicle anyways so good for another year. Glad to have it back on my side of the garage though.

Back about 10 years ago, I was working 2 days a week from home, 3 days in the office. I kept two ISPs, AT&T and Comcast cable. The two together only cost around $100 per month, and it was well worth it to know that I would have internet no matter.

I did that for several years, and only dropped AT&T when they tried to double the price and wouldn't negotiate. Comcast was very reliable, and then I switched back to AT&T 3 years ago when they brought fiber into my neighborhood and offered some very nice discounts to get people to sign up.

Knock on wood, I have had very reliable service from both ISPs. And I absolutely love the 1 gig fiber connection from AT&T. I will admit that I have never used VOIP at home. I haven't had a land line since ... not sure, maybe 15 years ago?

henryn

I suspect the bubble might be bursting on the used car market. It's hard to know, but the offers from the online buyers do seem to be going downhill. I have noticed that as well. And as I mentioned, Carmax does seem to have an abundance of used cars. Perhaps places like Carmax and Carvana have enough (or more than enough) used cars, but they have paid so much for them that their asking prices have to stay high or they will go bankrupt.

This could get interesting. How deep are the pockets of the players behind outfits like Carmax and Carvana? How much of a loss can they sustain and still keep the doors open?

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

So, what gives?

Just ran the daughter's MINI through Carvana. 2015 Countryman S ALL4, 55,000 miles, good condition inside and out.

Carvana came back with just over $12K on the buy bid; Vroom is at just under $11K.

However, when I go to cars.com and look at all the available 2015 Countryman S ALL4's for sale, nationally, with under 60,000 miles, I get a range of $17,990 to $25,799.

Seems like I might do a lot better selling it myself.

What? A used car dealer trying to low ball you? Nah.

Seriously, they might be anticipating a coming relaxing of the supply chain issues and don’t want to be stuck with overpriced inventory. I assume they have insider information so that could really be good news going forward.

oldfarmer50

benjaminh said:

Honda plans to invest $40 billion in EV development and production over the next ten years. Like some others, they are also planning to shift somewhat from just selling a vehicle to instead selling the vehicle plus annual or monthly subscriptions. They already do this to a degree with things like AcuraLink, which is a connection and button in your car that calls local 911 if your airbags deploy. With the "premium" plan, which I don't have, you also get a concierge to make hotel and restaurant reservations and whatever else they do. And I already pay an annual fee for XM radio. Anyway, I feel mixed about all this, but at least Honda has a plan—even if they seem to be about 4 years behind Tesla and the other major EV players.

https://www.autonews.com/video/first-shift/first-shift-honda-launch-30-full-evs-2030-40b-push

Not a buyer of that at any price.

henryn

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/08/climate/gas-prices-electric-vehicles.html

Thinking about buying an electric car? You’re not alone.

With gas prices painfully high and a series of climate reports underscoring the urgency of moving away from burning fossil fuels, more Americans are expressing interest in electric vehicles.
Google searches related to electric cars have skyrocketed, reaching a record number last month. On the automotive classifieds website Cars.com, searches for electric vehicles increased 43 percent from January to February and a further 57 percent from February to March. And automakers are ready with encouragement: Almost all of the car commercials during the Super Bowl in February featured electric vehicles.

But the journey to actual purchases that put more electric vehicles and fewer gas-powered vehicles on roads in the United States has two major roadblocks: the supply of cars and infrastructure to charge them.

explorerx4

Inflation may be starting to bite. Food, gas, and utilities are all up noticeably.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Inflation may be starting to bite. Food, gas, and utilities are all up noticeably.

Officially it’s jumped to 8.5% but I don’t think they are looking at stuff real people buy.

I just bought a lawn tractor for $2000 that I swear was less than $1500 a year ago. Inflation may be less a problem than supply chain. Doesn’t matter what the price if you can’t find any to buy.

qbrozen

Vehicle updates:

S90 to be released for transport middle of next week.
Sprinter production delayed (shocker!) till May-June.

henryn

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/business/teslas-computer-chips-supply-chain.html

For much of last year, established automakers like General Motors and Ford Motor operated in a different reality from Tesla, the electric car company.
G.M. and Ford closed one factory after another — sometimes for months on end — because of a shortage of computer chips, leaving dealer lots bare and sending car prices zooming. Yet Tesla racked up record sales quarter after quarter and ended the year having sold nearly twice as many vehicles as it did in 2020 unhindered by an industrywide crisis.
…
When Tesla couldn’t get the chips it had counted on, it took the ones that were available and rewrote the software that operated them to suit its needs. Larger auto companies couldn’t do that because they relied on outside suppliers for much of their software and computing expertise.

I remember having this exact argument many times at my former employer. You need in house expertise, in particular the ability to do your own computer science / programming. But the bean counters always look at the short time profit margin, and continue to outsource.

tifighter

henryn said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/business/teslas-computer-chips-supply-chain.html

For much of last year, established automakers like General Motors and Ford Motor operated in a different reality from Tesla, the electric car company.
G.M. and Ford closed one factory after another — sometimes for months on end — because of a shortage of computer chips, leaving dealer lots bare and sending car prices zooming. Yet Tesla racked up record sales quarter after quarter and ended the year having sold nearly twice as many vehicles as it did in 2020 unhindered by an industrywide crisis.
…
When Tesla couldn’t get the chips it had counted on, it took the ones that were available and rewrote the software that operated them to suit its needs. Larger auto companies couldn’t do that because they relied on outside suppliers for much of their software and computing expertise.

I remember having this exact argument many times at my former employer. You need in house expertise, in particular the ability to do your own computer science / programming. But the bean counters always look at the short time profit margin, and continue to outsource.


That's just part of the in house story. Few are realizing the impact the innovations, combined with the Giga factories, will have on the production side. Things like single-piece castings to replace the traditional front and rear subframes. One of these castings eliminates 70 parts each, not to mention the welds and assembly time. That's positive margin. Or the 4680 cells that allow the same range for a lower cost while also acting as a structural member of the assembly, eliminating more parts. Also positive margin. 1 car every 45 seconds. And software? Detroit, Germany, Japan...not traditional software hubs, either. Can they attract top-tier programmers and talent? They haven't in the past.

Oh, and they are also building the largest cell factory in the world inside Giga Austin. No outside supplier necessary.

I keep hearing 'wait until the legacy makers go full scale on EVs' and have been hearing it for years. Someone like GM can make a press release about 25 models by 2025. Makes great headlines for the auto press. But are they making any money on them?

That's Tesla EV sales pre-Berlin/Austin vs legacy ICE sales. Imagine legacy EV-only margins, with their outsourcing of battery production. Probably why GM will happily take your deposit for a $100K Silverado EV but not a $45K version. Because they're losing money on it.

mjfloyd1

Did @roadburner buy the 2019 M4 Competition? I see that it is gone and a 2015 M235 is listed as just arrived…

ab348

The guy who purchased this car makes our friends @breld and @qbrozen look like pikers:

https://youtu.be/Ct58Cqiyh1A

Just a cool 3 million Euros for the car, and an extra 300K Euros for the exterior treatment.

qbrozen

@ab348 said:
The guy who purchased this car makes our friends @breld and @qbrozen look like pikers:

https://youtu.be/Ct58Cqiyh1A

Just a cool 3 million Euros for the car, and an extra 300K Euros for the exterior treatment.

Pbbbbttt. Why spend $3.3M on that instead of a whole fleet of really great cars and still have a couple mill in the bank?

qbrozen

I have been addicted to bidding on JDM cars sight unseen for a couple of days now. I may get in trouble.