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What do you veteran TDI owners think? :confuse:
So looking at history, I had ( and still have) ZERO defects@ the 100,000 miles mark. TSB's (minor) and rating a small footnote at that, are covered under warranty anyway. The stuff you would have to do @ 100,000 miles (09 is now at 120,000 miles) are not covered by warranty/s ANYWAY.
I projected I did not want nor need the extended warranty. History has proved it correct. I did NOT buy an extended warranty for the 03. I used part of that $1265 (if you will) for: 1. oil/filter changes ($165) 2. the required 100,000 milesTB/WP change ($600.) 3. new tires @ 112,000 miles ($308) 4. non needed alignment ($60.)
Given the same feelings for the 09, I do not project a need for the 36,000 to 100,000 miles extended warranty . It probably needs to be said the durability and reliability have actually gone up. This is despite the additional complexity , (importantly) of both the engine and subsystems and DSG; of which you do not have the DSG.
I live in the Detroit area and currently diesel is very close to the price of regular unleaded, and at some stations, even less. I pass a station everyday that is $1.999 per gallon. I really love the car.
Thank you also for the advice on the extended warranty. I think I'll hold onto my $1265 and apply it to the scheduled maintenance.
Beware, I had the first oil change and the dealer put the 505.01 spec oil in instead of the 507.00 oil. If I hadn't looked up the part number of the Castrol oil, I never would have known. I went back and had a second oil chage with the correct oil and a new filter.
When the time comes, I hope I can find a TDI guru locally that will replace the TB and WP for $595. WOW... That is a great price even without the upgraded WP. Anyone know one in the Detroit area?
Since CBEA TB/WP kits are not yet being offered after market and the Bentley's technical data are not even out yet and not a lot of dealers, let alone guru's have done CBEA TB/WP changes, there is a chance the TB/WP R/R procedures can be FAR easier than the MK IV generations'. Indeed the Mk III's had a 250,000 miles WP life expectation.
First tankfull was 43.9MPG (35.12 US MPG)
Second Top Up was 51.25MPG (41 US MPG)
Have 1200km (750 miles) on it now. I can feel the unit starting to 'loosen up' now.
I was told at the Dealership that the engine comes with spec 507 oil in it. 1st oil change is due at 8000km (5000 miles). What are readers opinions of a 1st change at 1600km (1000 miles)?
Those 505.01 FREE Engine Flushes are kind of NEAT!
I also stuck a Rare Earth Magnets on the engine and transmission drain plugs to catch any Swarf that is to small to get trapped by the Filter.
Upshot: do the oem recommended 10,000 miles OCI, if not only for warranty purposes (till 30,000 to 36,000 miles) . Even this interval HASTENS engine wear. SAE has oil studies which shows and confirms that new oil and frequent oil changes under 15,000 miles is app 10-15% MORE wear aggressive.
A "minor upshot: " If you are truly concerned with the "swarf" (not sure what that REALLY means, but...) I would do the Amsoil EA filter with bypass oil system. Given the filtering campacity and your 35 mpg, a UOA will probably easily confirm a 60,000 to 100,000 miles bypass oil FILTER change. Indeed a bypass oil filter with a 2 micron filtering specification will make your (now used) oil-FRESH out of the bottle, CLEANER than when it was sold to YOU. In addtion, you can go a BARE min rock hard inflexible 25% longer (after warranty of course from i.e., 30,000 to 37,500 miles) OCI's. Again, no secret technology here, as you just added 1qt to 1 L more sump capacity.
Actually while I can understand the "loosening up feeling", the fact is break in will continue to app 30,000 to 60,000 miles. The mileage RANGE here is due to normal variation, statistical flukes, manufacturing variances individual, environmental variations, whether or not you apply the proper break in procedures, etc., etc. Specifically, you will not achieve full compression (app 550 psi) till then. New compression (if I remember correctly) is app 475 psi) So all things being equal (and they are NOT) you can actually look forward to 1/2 mpg better at that mileage.
The fact of the matter is the VW 507.00 specification oils are really 30,000 mile oils. The oem filters are specified to go that long also.
This of course in the current context of qwicky lubes 3,000 miles or the engine blows up brainwashing is difficult to impossible to believe!!
The fear is of course if more people actually start to do it and most people IGNORE the SIMPLE stuff like checking the dipstick AND TOPPING the oil sump at earlier intervals like one is SUPPOSED to ...but obviously most folks do NOT, One can run out of oil with the requisite blaming everyone else but the real culprit. Oem recommends checking the oil @ EVERY fueling, but even I don't do that. Also changing oil at 30,000 miles when 3,000 will do has VERY obvious economic consequences- good on one side/bad on the other.
On an older TDI 03 with 115,000 miles, I am truly a belt and suspenders kind of guy, so I only go to 25,000 mile OCI's
All the best !!
You can see the swirls in the oil after the initial change when you put the oil under bright sunlight.
The oil filter in the VW should catch most of this,except the very small particles.
When I pull the plug, the first thing I get to see is how much crud is stuck to the magnet. I try several different kinds of oil in my changes, and it's amazing to see the different amount of metal filings that result from various oils, all the same grade, all synthetic, (all expensive).
Don't believe half the PR hype you read about engine oils and filters, put in your own magnetic drain plug and see for yourself what brand of oil really has great wear properties.
In my experiments the best oil of all I have tested judging the amount of debris on the magnet is Penzoil Platinum...all I see on the magnet is a very thin grey powder that dissapears when it's touched.
A couple of the other "leading brands" create a heavy black sludgy gob of filings that looks like steel wool and tar.
(these findings are from gas engines but I would imagine hard working TDI's would also tell you one the first drain how they are likeing your oil choice)
There should be no need to add any more magnets.
The beauty of a magnetic drain plug is that once you have cleaned off the metal debris, it's gone for good.
On the first a/t fluid dump the drainplug looked like a big fur ball. It was covered in cuttings and assorted crud that I was happy to pulll off the magnet.
Each of the next 2 changes required to mix in the new fluid had less and less metal stuck to the magnet until the last removal when it was clean.
Each time the engine is turned off, any metalic material in the oil will be attracted to the magnetic plug, ready to be removed next change.
Another easy way to capture the metalic culprits is to stick on a few very strong magnets to the outside of the oil filter canister. Pry them off the dirty filter and use them again on the new one. The only drawback to this is, with the average screw on type, you don't get to see what you caught unless you do major surgery on the can.
The Jetta with it's metalic cannister and removable inner filter would let you see what's stuck to the inner casing.
Once you find out if your choice of motor oil is working as advertised to control wear and tear on the metalic innards of your engine, the VW oil filter application can be a good alternative to the drain plug.
The new magnetic drain plugs are so strong that they are a PITA to get back in as they grab the pan as soon as they get close and it takes a good yank to get them off, only to grab on again each time you try for the O Spot.
If VW is putting in magnets, it must be out of guilt for not putting any kind of filter protection in the old Beetles.
I would be interested in knowing if anyone using magnetic drain plugs in the newer VW's is getting any debris captured on the magnet. If so the VW magnet/filter is not doing it's job.
If the magnet is clean, then 'don't woory, be happy'
Second; Would be nice to stick a magnet on the Filter housing, But you can't as its cast aluminum. Unless.......you taped it on with some kind of tape.
I like Honda's setup with the magnetic drain plug on the transmission!
There can be magnets inside of engine and transmission pans (generic statement) that are not drain plug magnets. The transmission pan on my '92 Dakota has a large inward dimple that has a ring magnet sitting around the dimple inside of the pan.
Dodge even does it? Thats good.
You should be able to detect that magnet on the outside with a screwdriver or wrench.
Can't seem to find any mention of that info on any spec sheets for the new 09 TDI models. Pehaps it's the 09' gas engines that have a chain?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=226351
For some reason I can't reply to that thread and ask what is going on; my account is not working right. But it appears reasonable to think that the timing chain will appear sometime this year, though it might be in a 2010 model.
No one knows for sure yet what the procedure is going to be on the 09's TDI's for the belt change, but I can't imagine what the bill would be if they had to drop the engine and transaxle out of the vehicle to do it!
The WPTC service on the older TDI's seems to run from $600 to $1600 but they at least come out without a total dismantling of the car. The Jetta TDI timing belts look pretty sturdy and are made of a Kevlar like material, so they certainly should last as long as your payments even if you only put a dollar down.
Based on your numbers above this seems to be an ok price to pay for the service.
"Timing Belt for 2004 - 2006 Golf Jetta Beetle TDI and 04-05 Passat 2.0 TDI. This is for the Pump Duese Engines (with no rotary injector pump) - engine code BEW, BHW, BRM. Comes with the Timing Belt, Timing Belt Tensioner, Roller, and Water Pump with Metal Impeller."
Sound like there's lots of room on the $788.00 bill for 'labor'
At the very least EVERY MOVING PART which touches the belt should be replaced. Also do not skimp and use "made in China" parts. Real German-made parts should be used. The replacement waterpump should be BRASS IMPELLER... not the plastic one from the dealership. All the " must replace" bolts better be *REPLACED*. Crankshaft and camshaft seals should be scrutenized and replaced if any oil-seepage is evident.
Last -but certainly not least- the person you chose to do the work should have TDI experience. If they cannot honestly tell you they have changed a TDI timing-belt in the past 3 weeks, consider that they may not have enough experience. The TB tensionor is easy to install incorrectly by the inexperienced. It may actually work for several thousand miles.
It makes sense to search around for a TDI guru even if you have to take a day-trip to get the job done right. There are listings of reknowned TDI gurus and there may be one within a days drive from you.
Also be aware that many of the older (pre 2003) engines can be "upgraded" by installing the 100,000 mile parts. There are "kits" available which contain every part you need to do a TB replacment and end up with a 100,000 mile setup.
Yes, there is a "this is what you need if your timing belt breaks" kit that costs about $1400.00 it includes a new head and a whole box of assorted new parts.
I now understand why there are so many Jetta TDI's for sale with about 65,000 miles on them!
It's a shame really, if one were to use the new belt that is good for 100,000 miles, it would more than double the life of a still great lilttle fuel efficient car.
At 65,000 miles the VW diesel engine is now just entering the prime of it's life.
So for example @ 65,000 miles, it is really only 5,000 miles out of FULL break in or full compression @ 550 psi. At 115,000 miles it is capable of and is in fact getting the better mileage than when new.
I for one did the 100,000 miles TB/WP interval a tad bit early. My SWAG were the systems could have easily been extended to 120,000 miles with no issues. (20% more). Whether I will do that at the next 100k interval aka 200k miles mark (i.e., extend it to 220k remains to be seen. Or shall I say will depend on the inspection closer to that mileage. But so far it just purrs.
This is not unique to VW TDIs. If not timing belts, other manufacturers have different problems that can destroy engines (or transmissions). It seems they all have an Achilles heel of some kind.
Do you think the cars were on the market because the owner's had an impending sense of doom? Many people trade cars after 3 or 4 years no matter what they purchased. When I was looking for my TDI I could not find one within 500 miles with less than 76k miles (the one I bought).
As for the scarcity of used Jetta TDI's I just checked eBay motors and found over 50 of them with about 65,000 miles, more or less...they are scattered all over the country, especially in the Eastern half, lots of 06's for sale at Texas dealerships..
There are a couple of new, low milage 09's as well.
AOL cars for sale has over 24,000 Jettas listed today, mostly gassers tho.
http://autos.aol.com/used-list/make1-Volkswagen/model1-Jetta
I guess with the new 50 state emmisions cleared 09's with more powerfull motors, there is now a good reason/excuse to trade up.
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/__?_from=R40&_trksid=m39&_nkw=2006+Volkswagon+Jetta+- - TDI&_nd1=
Actually, we agree on this statement, but this statement being valid does not validate your previous speculation about timing belts being the reason.
Your searching efforts do not relate to when I bought my TDI in March of 2008 when they were really scarce - my fault I left that out. What has changed dramatically since then is the economy. There are a lot of everything for sale now. This is another valid statement that does not make speculation true.
Just for fun I looked at timing belt sites and the makes and models that use them. I had no idea how many and wide spread the use is. Even Toyota Tundras have timing belts. Timing belts are viewed as superior today because they are cheap, quiet and maintain accuracy compared to chains in the physically longer applications of overhead cam engines. I changed a lot of chains on engines in the 60s and 70s that were worn out at 150k miles and the timing was jumping around at idle. The sprockets had to be changed too because the teeth were worn thin. Not especially easy to change either.
I speculate that there are other reasons that TDIs are for sale with your criteria of less than 65k miles.
One piece of bad news, if you keep it less than 110,000 (what a normal driver keeps the average car for given 7.5 years average fleet age and 12-15k per year) , you bite the bullet for an app $500-600. job. Since, if the belt does break, which is no big deal if it is a NON interference design, it is a BIG deal since it is an interference design. Or if you don't do it a knowledgeable buyer will decrease the offer accordingly. So to me a chain is literally a ticking time bomb, and I am sure a Honda Civic chain drive system will be even more expensive to replace. I would as a min decrease the offer by then, at the very least: the cost of a chain system replacement.
- 6 speed manual instead of 5 speed
- significantly more motor, about the same mpg
- wagon/variant/hatchback form-factor
- warranty
- I can't stand the color of my 06!
Even with the bargain-pricing of the 09s a car-trade for another unlikely to happen unless car/house deflation turns around some decade soon..
Also the V6 010 camaro is the same price as 09 jetta TDI variant and available in yellow/orange/day-glo paint... :shades: :shades: :shades:
The Camaro is better looking but a gas guzzler by comparison. Both will hold their value better than the competition.
While I won't address your last three items; your take on the 6 speed manual and significantly more motor and the same mpg certainly are WOW factors to me.
There is no doubt the current state of the economy gives every potential car buyer pause.
If it's engine oil, sounds to me like a leaking rear main seal on the motor.
If it's a/t fluid I would be very carefull not to run it dry until you find out for sure.
Is there a "search" for "Jetta TDI engine oil leaks" on this forum?
I just looked around the net a little and found this site which is quite technical (at times) and got 1900 + links to the "Jetta TDI oil leak" questions...perhaps if you have a day or so to read through them all, you might find someone with exactly the same problem...don't laugh it happens.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/search.php?searchid=3685691
If it's engine oil, sounds to me like a leaking rear main seal on the motor.
It is a manual transmission, and it certainly appears to be engine oil, but I suppose it could be tranny lube too, but since the service manual only specifies the lube as VW transmission oil, and does not specify grade, viscosity etc. it's hard to tell for sure.
Thanks for the link. I'll take a look and see if I can get any clues. So far it has probably leaked about a half pint or so of oil, and the engine oil level is still in the normal range. I'll have to call the dealer tomorrow and see how they would like to handle it since it is still under warranty at 45000 miles and a few months short of 4 years old. Since it's 170 miles RT to go there, I was hoping for something simple that I could handle myself like I do for the regular oil/filter changes etc.. The seal sounds like a good possibility too, since it seems to still run and shift just fine, but that would obviously be a major repair as well as a cracked block would be. I'll keep you posted onthe results. :confuse:
Any comments from others in the 15k plus range?
Best of luck!
I only have about 12K miles on mine. Went to my sisters over the weekend, about a 150 mile round trip, and got only 36.5 mpg with 4 people and A/C on. It was about 50% city driving thanks to a big accident on SB I-75 on Saturday and a number of Oakland County stop lights out from the thunderstorms. I did get near 45 mpg on the way to work today (22 miles averaging about 35 mph).