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Next the first factory recall on the 2006 LX Sonata...
Affects some 2006 Sonata's with 3.3 engines produced between 5-1-05
and 6-10-05.
ESC (Electronic stability control) may be OVERSENSITIVE to the onset of oversteering while driving on banked curves causing inadvertent application of front outside brake when not needed. This may cause vehicle to slow and affect vehicle path... may result in a crash.
They suggest turning off ESC until fixed.
Hyundai will reprogram the HECU at no charge, they suggest repairing as soon as possible.
I'll be calling in the morning!
How about transaxle noises? With my fan and radio off, I hear noises that I think might be from the transaxle or torque converter. I'm concerned about the noises but the service manager didn't think they were abnormal either.
Between these issues and all the paint defects/flaws (7 on my third '06 GL), I think I may have decided on a Hyundai prematurely.
In computers, the first adopters become the unpaid beta testers. Those who can wait gain from their pain.
Friends have told me (one's an engineer who works on the Space Shuttle) 'wait until the third year of a new car model. By then they've probably worked out the bugs.'
As with all engineered products of any complexity, it's inevitable.
Why do you think that would make any difference? Do you think Hyundai is just going to turn over a brand new manufacturing plant to a bunch of inexperienced workers? I doubt it! If that were the case, you would see quality problems on the new '06 Sonata, and I haven't heard of any so far. I understand your point, but I'm sure Hyundai has enough experienced employees working at the plant to handle the variety of models they will be building.
Go test drive a V6 Camry and you will see the same problem. Or just go read some of the Camry boards.... it is a common complaint.
Noises? What kinds of noises are you hearing that bother you? All cars are mechanical machines with moving parts and they ALL make noises!! :confuse: Are you expecting dead silence? Ain't going to happen unless you're driving a Rolls Royce. Go test drive another new car like yours to see if you hear those same noises. If not, then you have a legitiment complaint to take back to the service manager or try another dealer.
Paint Defects.... No mass production paint process will be 100% perfect. Look at all the older GM and Chrysler vehicles driving around with peeling paint. What specific paint defects are you seeing? I'll bet if you look at cars built by other manufacturers, you will find some defects or minor flaws in the paint... it's going to happen! Some of those defects happen during shipping or are caused by the dealership. Other minor defects or flaws are just part of the paint process and are not 100% preventable.
"Between these issues and all the paint defects/flaws (7 on my third '06 GL), I think I may have decided on a Hyundai prematurely."
You bought a first model year car built at a brand new manufacturing assembly plant. Did you expect 100% perfection? I'm not trying to down play how you feel, but you have to ask yourself if you're being a bit too critical and maybe expecting too much given the price range of the Hyundai. I'll bet if you bought a Honda or Toyota, you would find some things on those cars you don't like also. The world just isn't that perfect.... and that comes from a perfectionist!! :shades:
At least it's just a computer reprogram to fix the problem. Both of my GM vehicles had to be reprogrammed to correct driveline issues.... it happens.
You have to give Hyundai credit for taking care of the problem immediately even though they're also protecting their rear ends from potential lawsuits at the same time.
Well... yes, actually. The workers ARE inexperienced. The management team is heavily peppered with experienced managers, but the workers themselves are building cars for the first time. They are taking the time to do it right, apparently (I've only JUST heard of any issues with a new Sonata other than the preproduction prototypes, a message or two before yours). Do it slow, do it with vehicles that are not greatly differentiated, iron out the bugs, train, train, train, and repeat. You'll get high quality, even with new workers. Now, once those workers are highly trained, you start throwing in variations, options, different packages. They can handle that. But I would keep it simple at first, maybe just one model, in two trim levels, with maybe just one or two option packages each... oh wait, that's EXACTLY what Hyundai did. One model, Sonata. Two trim levels, GLS V6 and LX. One option package on each (that I know of), the sunroof and CD changer. After they've got that down, introduce the second model the same way. By the time they've got both rhythms working, THEN you can introduce more true options, another couple of trim levels, and a new drivetrain set (remember, the LX and the GLS V6 have the same engine and transmission, and the new SUV is also supposed to have that transmission and engine in one of it's configurations... I bet it's the only one made in Alabama for the first model year). I4 in MY07? Yeah, I can see that. I4 in MY06? No way!
Also still can't find a white LX for sale! :confuse:
That is a assumption... sure, there are going to be local new hires working there, but I'm willing to bet that Hyundai brought in experienced non-management workers from Korea to help get the plant online and train the new employees. Much of the work is probably done by robots anyway. My comments had nothing to do with building the I4 in Alabama. I just don't see a two year ramp up before the plant is fully operational enough to handle more than one model. If Hyundai has the proper manufacturing processes in place, then building more than one trim level or model shouldn't be a big issue even for a new plant. Getting the parts supply and vehicle distribution channels lined up plus working out any remaining bugs in the manufacturing process takes a longer time to ramp up than training a new employee how to assemble the car.
"You can paint it any color, so long as it's black"
My how far we've come in such a short amount of time! :P
#1791 of 1791 Re: XG350L Bargain price $7856 off MSRP [blackrussian] by averigejoe Aug 04, 2005 (4:13 pm)
Reply | E-mail Msg
Replying to: blackrussian (Feb 11, 2005 9:25 am)
Nothing was rotten in Denmark.
The actual deal in January 2005 worked out even better than the advertised price of $18999 for a new 2005 XG350L which had a $26594 MSRP.
But, that was then, this is now. How much are these cars selling for now? Are there any even left for sale?
If so, the new 2006 Sonata in GLS or LX trim might be selling for considerably higher prices than the '05 XG350L.
How about you buyers now? Which is more attractive for your $$ ? A new 2006 Sonata or a new 2005 XG350 ? Which would you pay more for?
Or are you waiting for the new Azera?
Also see #1790
Just the verdict: "The next time I see someone driving a brand-new Honda Accord, I'm not going to think, "Man, what a dope. He should have bought the Hyundai Sonata.""
BTW, do people who own the car agree with the noise on rough surface?
Not the best review I've read so far.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/03/Autos/carreviews/hyundai_sonata/
Hit a few bumps, or a patch of pocked pavement, and the source of some cost-savings becomes evident. Road noise is a real problem. Every "thwump," "bump" and "thadump" from the tires travels right up through the passenger cabin. Driving over some rough pavement on the highway, I had to raise my voice to converse with my passenger.
I had no complaints about the Sonata's handling most of the time. It drives just fine, especially for a relatively inexpensive car.
But when the road gets rough, while the ride remains comfortable, the sense of control gives way. The Sonata's suspension doesn't like too many inputs at once and when there are lots of bumps, the bumps win.
So, what do we learn from this? I and others are not just 'imagining things' when we report that the ride is noisy. If enough people report this, it's probably true.
If Hyundai wants to sell more Sonatas, they'll do the things necessary to improve it. Is their goal to make a great car, or just an adequate car? For a few thousands dollar difference, most will go Honda or Toyota. These two have a proven record, hold their value, and have gone through their growing pains decades ago.
Hyundai, if you're listening, please change the Sonata in the following ways:
Quieter ride
Reverse parking sensors
Black leather interior
Middle rear headrest
Navigation system
Better radio in base models
Daytime Running Lights
Backseat torso airbags
Power seat adjustments for passenger seats
Lumbar support for passenger seats
More comfortable middle rear seat
Rough road makes a noisy interior? My 80 year old parent's year and a half old Caddy DeVille has the same "problem." The bumps also win over the DeVille. One could almost buy 2 '06 Sonatas for what their '04 DeVille cost.
How many cars listing under $25,000 have all the "improvements" you ask Hyundai to make? Oh, if you're talking about "base model" radio, make that under $19,000. In fact, how many cars at any price offer all that you ask?
Personaly, I don't like the rear seat headrests because they obstruct vision. I guess they are a safety feature, but how many drivers have 5 people in a mid-size car? Most of the "soccer moms" have minivans or SUV's to shuttle the gang of kids.
If Hyundai wants to sell more Sonatas, they'll do the things necessary to improve it. Is their goal to make a great car, or just an adequate car? For a few thousands dollar difference, most will go Honda or Toyota. These two have a proven record, hold their value, and have gone through their growing pains decades ago."
You think that Honda and Toyota are so perfect?.... NOT!
I drove a new Camry and it had road noise. My neighbor owns a new Honda Accord and was complaining about road noise during a recent trip to NY. All cars have road noise. Many things cause road noise... tire selection, low tire pressure, shocks, and surprise... bad roads which every state has!! If Hyundai built the car as you listed, they couldn't sell it at economy level prices. If you think Honda and Toyota are so much better, go buy one!! :P
The fact that your parent's bought a junky Caddy does not change the issue that the Sonata is noisy and rough on less than ideal (i.e. regular) pavement.
The improvements suggested would not add thousands. Black leather rather than tan or grey? Zero dollars. Daytime running lights? Pennies. (Cost of one resistor.) Middle headrest? Dollars. (Less than seven dollars, according to NHTSA. All cars required to have them by '08.) Lumbar support in passenger seat? Dollars. Better radio. Mere dollars.
The only appreciable additions would be Navigation System (if one can buy one for hundreds, Hyundai could get them for less), Reverse Sensors (no clue, but it can't be that much if the Mercury Montego offers it...), and a Quieter Ride (better engineering, and maybe more sound insulation...)
The result? Priceless.
By the way, some people on this list defend the Sonata as if it were their mother, or they personally designed the car. This 'love it or leave it' thought suggests any dissent or suggestions for improvement are somehow unpatriotic. (Oh, sorry. That's the 'Love it or Leave it' slogan uttered toward those who opposed the Vietnam War. This is being uttered over a car. My bad.)
Also you talk about road noise and bumps?? I drove the car and felt that those noise were very reasonable to good for a car of its price. The jetta, camry, accord have the same noises.
I think you are being way too serious about a car that does alot for its customers already with traction control, stability control, and tons of other features other cars will give only as added options. Maybe you should think about looking at a bmw or audi or something else. This is not suppose to be a luxury car
As for the discussion about a Black leather interior.... I do think they picked grey because of the heat... it has been in the 90's and 100's around here and between the grey interior and the solar control glass my Sonata LX is very bearable to hop into after several hours in the beating sun. In fact it seems cooler than my tan interior Contour I used to drive! So I say kudos to Hyundai for picking grey and the solar control windows.
Oh yea.. even for MSRP this car is a bargain! So far!
Congrats on the Black LX! Trust me get a good car duster and it'll become the best friend of your new Sonata... two minutes everyday and get just washed clean. Love it.
Plus... her Sonata was water and dust spotted already... wash it!
I've read just about all the reviews on the net, and some reviews are absolute
opposites on this subject.
I also test drove a sonata and couldn't disagree with you more about the noise.
From the list of improvements you posted, it doesn't seem to me that you're
that interested in '06 Sonata since a lot of those things are not fixable
to change until the next production cycle.
Would this be a fair comment?
Also, it would be wonderful if you could stay away from bold fonts. You can just
use quotation marks, you know. Just a suggestion.
Does it use a drive-by-wire throttle too? How common is this design these days?
"Noises? What kinds of noises are you hearing that bother you?"
It's a mechanical noise (not road noise) that reminds me of the noise the air pump in my '82 Delta 88 made. I noticed last night that shifting into R or D and keeping my foot on the brake made the noise more apparent. I'm starting to wonder if the heat shield on the exhaust manifold might be loose (I'll check tmw) or if something is transmitting vibrations into the cabin.
"What specific paint defects are you seeing?"
Small specs of debris under the paint. Not something caught in the clear coat or paint after painting, but something that was not cleaned off prior to painting. Or something that was not properly filtered out prior to painting.
"You bought a first model year car built at a brand new manufacturing assembly plant."
The GLs and I4 GLSs are not made in a brand new plant (unless the Korean plant where they're made is brand new); only the V6s are made in Alabama. That was actually one of the reasons I bought the GL. I didn't want to deal with all the issues that come with a brand new plant.
Please skip the quotes if you don't have time for them.
To sum them all up, no one seems to have any complaint about noise on the
highway or a smooth surface. Some reported very noticeable thumps on rough
surfaces (like potholes), but others said it's a smooth ride.
I tend to think Sonata (or even Camcord) is a wrong car to drive if you have to journey through rough countryside terrains, anyway. I was taught that you should
slow down and try to avoid any potholes on the ground, but some cities don't allow
such luxury, I guess.
IMO, all the complaints about thumping noise on rough roads are quite
exaggerated and tend to be misguided blanket statements. Moreover, if you are
uncomfortable with all the alleged noise, you should do yourself a favor and never
buy this car because you are likely to keep noticing the same thing and become
over-concious.
BTW, if you read any other review that addresses the same topic, please let me
know. I'd love to read it.
Positive Feedbacks:
"On the road, the car provided a comfortable ride with smooth acceleration"
-Matt Nauman "theMercurynews"
"The Sonata also has matured in terms of ride comfort and handling. Put a blindfold on the average consumer, and he or she would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between the Sonata and a Camry or an Accord... One thing we both noticed is how quiet the new Sonata's cabin is at freeway speeds. And that's a measure of the car's quality and sophistication. You don't feel like you're paying a penalty for buying Korean when you drive the Sonata."
-Anita and Paul Lienert "Detroit Newspapers"
"The suspension is tuned to deliver boulevard-smooth ride without lots of gyrations and pronounced movement while providing adequate handling."
-Jim Mateja "Chicago Tribune"
"On the street, the V-6 feels suspiciously close to the Accord in terms of road feel, with a solid combination of firm braking and predictable handling. On the highway, it is remarkably quiet. Wind and road noise are negligible, and downshifts are smooth."
-Jason Stein, "Fortwayne.com"
"It offered great power and a comfortable ride on both Interstates and twisting back-country roads. We also maneuvered through urban traffic with no problems."
-John Heilig, "the autochannel"
"On the open highway, the Sonata LX is remarkably quiet. Even at speeds of 80 mph and above, wind and road noise are never intrusive. In city driving, the five-speed automatic transmission worked well. It never hunted or chose the wrong gear. If anything, the transmission is reluctant to downshift but this is likely due to the Sonata's V6 delivering most of its torque at a fairly low engine speed. Still, when downshifts came they were smooth and sure."
"The new Hyundai Sonata is smooth, quiet, comfortable, refined and attractive. It's not a car I would choose for any sort of sporty driving but I'd easily pick it over the Camry for that chore."
-Brian Moody, "Insideline.com"
"In the real world, the Sonata shines. The well-tuned suspension smothers the bumps and keeps its composure in turns without drama, and its tuning falls between the firm Accord and cushy Camry. There's plenty of power for effortless merging and passing, and the brakes are a strong ally in the daily grind."
-John Dipietro, "Insideline.com"
"Not once did the all-season Michelin tires squeal mid-corner on the winding roads, something neither a Honda Accord nor Toyota Camry can achieve. If the tires had made any noise it would have been easy to detect, as the cabin is quiet enough to determine which tires are mounted on the car. The Michelin summer tires make a more continuous hum on the freeway. During the three years of development, Hyundai engineers aimed to match the craftsmanship of Audi and the interior noise level of Lexus. They are getting close."
-Shaun Baily, "Road and Track"
"On our long drive, the car rode comfortably and quietly. Wind noise was low, road rumble was far away (even with the LX model's low-profile tires), and the entire structure was admirably tight and squeak-free."
-Csaba Csere, "Car and Driver"
Mixed feedbacks:
"Hyundai touts a coefficient-of-drag of 0.32. This, together with triple door seals and, undoubtedly, increased insulation, helps weight most of the noise to the drivetrain (particularly in the four-cylinder, which exhibits a light automatic transmission whine and a muffled, if not entirely unpleasant, growl). Hyundai notes that the V6-equipped Sonata is quieter at idle; at 60 mph, and at wide-open throttle than Camcord. ... The quick turn-in, and ability to throttle-steer (thanks in part to a rear stabilizer whose size – at 17mm - is courageously high) is all the more commendable when one considers the ride quality: generally pleasant, with a slight, muffled bump-thump but no discernible jounce. The added refinement is partly thanks to larger bushings, and partly to a new upper arm design at the rear, moved to the lower cross member for better isolation of wheel vibration.This, mind you, is on the Michelin 215/60 16-inch tires standard on all but the LX; we remain noncommittal as to how the 225/50 17-inch tires may impact the ride and road noise. Certainly, the chassis is rigid enough – and the suspension capable of maintaining camber – for the car to remain largely unperturbed over mid-corner bumps."
-"Automobear"
"The result is some pitch and rebound if the Sonata is driven aggressively on curving roads with less than smooth surfaces. However, most owners are not likely to push it that hard. In straight-line driving, the steering has a centered feel, with few corrections needed, and the motoring ambience is characterized by a noticeable lack of engine and wind noise, with tire and road noise apparent but muted."
-Frank Aukofer, "Milwakee journal sentinel"
Negative feedbacks:
"Thump and jiggle. Too much of the former over sharp bumps, such as potholes. Most cars react poorly to those, but Sonata adds the aggravation of making you listen to its misbehavior as well as feeling it. Too much of the latter motoring down a typical, imperfect road. Not as bad as bounding along in a Jeep Wrangler, but not like gliding in a Camry, either.
-James R. Healy, "USA Today"
"Hit a few bumps, or a patch of pocked pavement, and the source of some cost-savings becomes evident. Road noise is a real problem. Every "thwump," "bump" and "thadump" from the tires travels right up through the passenger cabin. Driving over some rough pavement on the highway, I had to raise my voice to converse with my passenger. ... But when the road gets rough, while the ride remains comfortable, the sense of control gives way. The Sonata's suspension doesn't like too many inputs at once and when there are lots of bumps, the bumps win."
-Peter Valdes-Dapena, "CNN/Money"
I had cruise set to 80mph most of the trip and got between between 25.7mpg and 26mpg. At cruising speeds near 70mph the mileage was 31mpg. The AC was on 90% of the time, the car was carrying 2 adults, 1child, 1 dog and the trunk was extremely full.
I haven't done much city driving, so won't comment on that yet.
I'm pleased with the numbers so far, but gas was $2.55/gallon at my last fill, so every mpg increase certainly helps the pocketbook.
You are correct.... it would add millions!
Factoring in development, manufacturing, and labor costs, lets say it would cost Hyundai $300 per car to add all the features you asked for. You say not much to ask for on a $20k vehicle.... right? On a production run of 140,000 units, that comes to a total cost of about 42 million. Where do you expect that extra 42 million to come from? The extra $300 per unit has to be added to the total cost of the vehicle! You obviously don't have any experience working in product development. Spending a few extra dollars here or there adds up quickly when you apply that across thousands of units built on a production line. Hyundai isn't trying to compete with Lexus.
Get a map if you need to navigate, play the radio louder if you don't want to hear the noise, use your mirrors and look over your shoulder if backing up (what happened to real driving), unless you drive a taxi the passenger seat doesn't need to be adjusted every time you get in so leave it alone (No power needed).
Most of these options are available on the sonata in other countries but not the US. Reverse parking sensors, Black Leather Interior, Navigation, Daytime Running Lights and Power Passenger seats.
Now as for a quieter ride it's as good as the competition. Test drove many different brand of cars and each had it's on problem. Better radio, it may be the speakers or the listener. Oops, forgot MP3 it not standard acc. for the comp. Middle rear head rest and more comfortable middle rear seat. How many times have you ever seen some one ridding in the middle rear seat in a mid-size sedan or any car at that. Normally it's the baby seat in that middle position.
How many of the Sonata's competitors have backseat torso airbags as standard? Most of them don't even have side curtain airbags as standard. How many have power passenger seats with lumbar adjustments as standard, on all trim lines? As for a more comfortable middle rear seat, I haven't yet found a really comfortable middle rear seat in any sedan of this class--not for an adult anyway. The Sonata's middle rear seat at least offers good leg room and head room. I think it's perfectly adequate for a child.
Actually, the Sonata in all trim levels does provide an alternative to DRLs: leave the headlamp switch on, and the headlamps will shut off when you turn off the engine and will turn on when you restart the engine.
Most of what he is asking for is available in other countries but not in the US. Fact being that Hyundai is making an affordable reliable car is probably something he is forgetting about. But if he wants all of these things he can go and get an Azera for the price of a Camcord and be very happy with his choice of buying a better car.
Just over 1000 miles, averaging a bit over 25 mpg in about 30/70 City/Freeway driving. Freeway driving mostly done at 75 mph. A/C always on.
Sighted my first 2006 Sonata in New Haven, Connecticut, where I just got married. Middle aged lady with an aquamarine color. I am from Wisconsin, and haven't seen another new Sonata yet (besides my own obviously).
As far as ride quality goes, practicality has taken a back seat to fashion. The low-profile 17" and bigger wheels being used on new cars is ridiculous. Less tire means less air cushion which means stiffer sidewalls which means a harder ride and ultimately a more expensive tire. A 16" wheel with a 60 aspect ratio tire is adequate - bigger isn't better. When will common sense prevail?
Also, check tire pressures. New cars are often delivered with very high PSI and need to be set to factory spec. Shows you that even though you paid predelivery charges, the dealer didn't even check the tires.... An overinflated tire will ride very hard.
Currently have 2000 miles.