Hyundai Sonata 2006-2007

bobad

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Well English you figured me out. As I sit here at my kerosene powered computer I hope the elders of the order don't find out.

Gotcha! You are soooo shunned! :P

tenpin288

calculated from the problem rates for the 14 trouble spots and compared with that year's average

That jogs my mind a little about CR ratings system. It is a comparative rating scale within a vehicle category for that year, not the entire industry as a whole. What they are saying is that they are predicting a vehicle's reliabilty rating based on a weighted scale and measuring that reliability against other vehicles in that class only. (I'll look to verify that info on their site.)

So if for example a vehicle such as the Tucson (mentioned earlier in this thread as an example of this rating hiccup) gets average to excellent ratings in CR's own evaluation(which it did)and say has only 10 problems per 100 vehicles, it could get a below average rating if the overall rating for its class (RAV4, CR-V, Escape, etc) is say 6 problems per 100. In this case, the Tucson gets slammed for below average ratings even though compared to all vehicles it may actually be average to above average industry-wide.

With the increased reliability of most vehicles over the last few years, CR really needs to review/update that metric to actually give its readers a better picture of vehicle reliabilty. Maybe rather than a category comparison, a point scale related to or as a sum of the 14 rated areas would be a better metric in today's market. :confuse:

YMMV

backy

I don't think that is the way it works. But they did change the reliability ratings scheme some for 2006, i.e. they have moved from an absolute scale to a relative scale. I won't try to explain it here because this is not a CR discussion, and I don't want anyone to complain that I try to "apologize" for CR--which I don't.

mamamia2

Have been a CR subscriber for the past 10 years.... In general, I do trust them.

Whether to buy a certain car or not is not for them to tell their readers, it's enough to go over the reliability charts, WHICH ARE ALL BASED ONLY ON SUBSCRIBERS' FEEDBACK.

Their reviews of new cars are one thing, which can be suspected of subjective opinion/impression of a human being, even if that's his profession. I found their review of the new Sonata -- especially their reasoning NOT to give it a "recomended" mark -- quite flawed, maybe even biased.

On the other hand those RELIABILTY CHARTS, to me are like the BIBLE. Hundreds of thousands of consumers are giving their fedback on a product. There is NOTHING more reliable than that.

cxc

"There is NOTHING more reliable than that" (CR)

The reliability rating from AIS (Automotive Information Systems (AIS) is far more reliable than that from CR. If you have doubt, you can test right way. Think about your last three car repairs and check to see if AIS is able to pinpoint these three problems with estimated repair costs in MSN.com.

backy

Just did. It didn't. OTOH, it does provide estimated repair costs for some problems (one to be exact)--but not one that I have heard anyone talk about on the Problems discussion for this car. Another useful point of data--like CR and other sources of info.

targettuning

It would be if "Sonata" seemed credible. It just doesn't seem likely that Hyundai Of America would buy back a Sonata just to place the irate consumer into their high end level car. Companies, Hyundai included, don't usually bend that far to make a single customer happy..nope not without a court order, sorry I can't see it!! I frankly can't envision a car so overwhelmingly bad it couldn't be repaired either, yeah, I know about the "lemon law" cars but still.. I think I smell a rat here.

rhduke00

On page 54 of its Apr 2006 issue, CR says the 2006 Sonata is too new to get a reliability rating. Yet on page 73 of the same magazine, the newer 2007 Camry gets an above average reliability rating.

mejoza

Is the '07 Camry new from the ground up like the Sonata was? I noticed thay did the same thing for the '06 Civic when I thought it was totaly new. Maybe its the same old engine/transaxle. :confuse:

backy

When Hyundai has a 20+ year record of reliability with the Sonata, maybe its new generation will get a positive predicted reliability assessment from CR too.

snakeweasel

Doubt it. Hyundai can have a 100+ year reliability record and there will be people who say that it is still unreliable junk.

But there are other thing$ at play with CR.

backy

Well, I'm sure there are some folks out there who say that Toyotas are unreliable junk, but that isn't the dominant opinion, is it? Some people have trouble learning, and changing.

When you have some proof that CR twists its ratings (against Hyundai I assume) due to financial considerations, let us know--also the NY Times, they would probably want to run a story on it too.

snakeweasel

Well when certain people start to talk I will let you know. Until then you will have to use common sense. Do you really think that your subscription pays for all that testing?

backy

I am not a subscriber to CR. I buy a mag now and then when it has a review that interests me. I did subscribe in the past.

snakeweasel

Well I will say this, in an unguarded moment someone who works for them let something very damaging to CR slip. Due to my friendship with, and respect for, that individual thats all I will say for now.

suzannafl

I made the "mistake" and took my husband to the dealership with me.
He likes the Azera.

While shopping for your Sonata, did anyone consider the Azera?

Pros and Cons?

Thanks,
S

johnap2

Hello,

I also considered the Azera initially until I took both the Sonata and Azera for a test drive. The Azera is a very nice car, along with the Sonata, but I didn't feel like I was driving a car obviously superior to the Sonata for the price difference. I actually liked the interior of the Sonata better and the additional features of the Azera really did not matter to me that much. I really wasn't that interested in a rear window sunshade

If having the flagship car is important to you then I would buy the Azera. If you are a more practical person who appreciates a redesigned, economical family sedan then I would go with the Sonata. I think either car would be a great choice, but for me I wanted to save $$$ on fuel (I drive A LOT) so I went with a GLS I4 (sunroof & power seat). Sure, the Azera and V6 Sonata have more horsepower , but that is not what I cared about.

pocono35

When Hyundai has a 20+ year record of reliability with the Sonata, maybe its new generation will get a positive predicted reliability assessment from CR too.

Toyota itself has admitted to quality issues affecting consumer satisfaction with its Scion brand. Toyota is not bullet proof and their recent mega-expansion is giving consumers and Toyota itself concerns.

The Camry has not been bullet proof as reliability issues crept into the the model two offerings ago. Nothing approaching serious, but serious for a Toyota.

backy

No one said "bulletproof" (well, not until you did). CR deals in probabilities and statistics. They have a lot of stats showing that over the decades the Camry, and Toyotas in general, have been very reliable. That must be enough for them to predict that the new Camry will also be reliable. I don't think that is going out on the limb too far.

desertguy

"Nothing approaching serious, but serious for a Toyota."

You don't think the engine sludge problem and the resulting engine failures were serious?

cjlars

As Backy says CR deals in probability and statistics. I'm sure there is someone out there who put 500,00 miles on their Renault LeCar and never had a problem (well maybe not) but that wouldn't make me run out and buy one. Another thing to keep in mind is that reliability has likely improved across the board so "worse than average" these days may not be as bad as it sounds (compared with 15 years ago).CR is just one of many sources of info to look at when buying a car.Would I really care that I can't get too many bags of groceries in a 911,or its not particularly reliable? Nope.

mamamia2

"Do you really think that your subscription pays for all that testing?"

--------- That's not very fair. CR is getting money not only from their magazine subscription but also from several other campaigns they runs every year among their subscribers, and donations from individuals too.

So far there has never been (to my knowledge) any case when CR has LOST a law suite, or proven to be biased against a company or a brand. And there were several law suites (the Isuzu Trooper case, to name just one).

Again, I thought their review of the new Sonata was a bit biased, but that does not make them CORRUPT.

If you look at their annual reliability ratings of cars, you'd swear they must be paid (or OWNED) by the Japanese government....

But then, alas, Japanese cars today (and the Koreans are following suite), ARE the best cars in the world.

snakeweasel

Yes CR gets money from other places. The question is what arethose other sources?

pat

who has what to say about the Sonata?

mrdisco33

while this is always subjective (and contentious) i really really dislike the Azera styling, particularly the bulge in the rear 3/4. Where as the Sonata has the clean lines of an Audi, the Azera has an old Camry grill merged to chunky body and an old Buick/Accord tail lights. For the amount of money they are charging i don't think its a good buy when compared to the Sonata (here in Canada the Azera starts at ~$34.5k)

i do like the Azera interior however, but not enough to justify spending that much more for it.

A base Azera gives the following over a GLS (canada specs)
-folding mirrors
-automatic temp, dual zones
-Electric Rear Window with Timer
-electrochrome mirror w/compass
-home link
-power passenger seat
-traction control
-3.8L engine
-NO leather

So the question is, do the added toys and slightly bigger engine justify the price difference? (~$6900, plus taxes and fees, difference here). you could add most of the options to the Sonata and still come out cheaper.

kingsalmon

I said the same thing when I saw the Azera for the first time in the pictures. However, when I saw it in person, I was swayed big time. This car is certainly gorgeous and although it may be purely subjective, I think it looks a lot more stylish than the Sonata.

I still think Sonata looks the best in it's class (Camry outgoing and new, Accord, Mazda6, and Altima). Sonata's interior could use a mild makeover, but the car is very sharp.

The Azera is not the most practical car for family use. I believe that belongs to the Sonata. However, if you could use a little more comfort, space, and style, Azera's not a bad buy. Perhaps you can compare the Azera (price-wise) to the top of the line Accords/Camry's and judge from that stand point.

rhduke00

Since you prefer the Sonata and your husband prefers the Azera, I suggest you buy the Sonata and ditch your husband.

snakeweasel

Better yet get the Azera and son't let him in it.

lxcan

When I was shopping for a new car I also tested the Azera. I was very impressed to say the least, but the car just felt too big. The ride comfort is superb; fit and finish, second to none; power... loads to spare, and it does have a few features that you can't get at all in the Sonata. But I felt that it was just too much car for me.

My advice would be to test drive them one after the other. View them side by side etc. The Sonata is an awesome car, and it fits my style, driving habits and budget perfectly. I still grin every time I get in.

Good luck making your decision. Cheers

mamamia2

Yes CR gets money from other places. The question is what arethose other sources?

Why don't you do some homework and RESEARCH it yourself, snakeweasel, instead of making allegations and inuendos?

So far it's all CHEAP, CHILDISH GOSSIP.

kwonc71

Have anyone else seen new family sedan comparison on Insideline yet?

1.Camry
2.Accord
3.Sonata
4.Fusion

snakeweasel

I don't need to research it. I got it straight from the horses mouth.

bobad

It's not that we don't trust you snakeweasel, but anonymous attributions are usually considered worthless.

Don't misread me, I am not a CU appologist. I know how money the world works. I know that CU takes endowments and private donations, so the opportunity for their tests to be tainted does exist. :surprise:

snakeweasel

I have a friend who worked at CR in their financial department who let it slip on how they got the funds to do a particular test.

backy

And that by itself tells us nothing.

bobad

Without a name, it's nothing more than the title.

I'm not a Koolaid drinker. I know that CR's subscription earnings probably won't cover 30% of their testing. So where does the money come from?

Even if CR's money were 100% clean, there is always the possiblity that their management has an agenda that would taint their tests. Everyone seems to have an agenda these days.

snakeweasel

And if I gave you all the details you would say the same thing.

jimmy81

The ride comfort is superb; fit and finish, second to none

You don't get out much, do ya?

cxc

Let us face reality. We all work for a business that has to make whoever makes it profitable happy. In turn, those happy ones make the business more profitable. CR is a business. There is no doubt that CR makes Toyota and Honda happy (in terms of profit) in addition to the owners (more likely CR subscribers) of Toyota and Honda cars (psychologically). CR has to do EVERYTHING it can to continue making its customers happy.

mrdisco33

Here in my work tower they have a Sonata GLS and an Azera (Premium?) on display side by side (to show off their recent AJAC awards). Side by side I just find the Azera styling to be a mismash of copied styles (and again that rear bulge is just too ugly in my eyes). The sonata looks more modern and more importantly I think will age much better then the Azera. The sharper styling should be pleasing to the eye much like Audi A4s.

In the near-luxury class in which the Azera competes, it may win out in a pure toys:price ratio compared to its competitors, but in this class i think the brand and image also comes into play. would someone pass over an IS250 Lexus? (which lists at $36k..not much difference between a base Azera) I know I would have serious thoughts and forgo the toys and larger room for the proven luxury brand power of Lexus. I think Azera will succeed in winning customers who would have purchased a Buick, but it may need some time to win over other buyers.

pat

Folks, let's move on past the Consumer Reports thing and get back to the Sonata. Thanks.

billward

Yes, but did you see the editor's comments? Both said that regardless of the "Price is no object" comparison results, the Sonata LX was the car they would recommend first, with the Camry second. One of them said that it amounted to the Camry having more bells and whistles, but sometimes they are unimportant bells and whistles, or useless ones (such as the reclining rear seat???? WTH???)

If they had added in a Lexus, and Acura, a Benz, etc., in the same group (V6 sedans), those would have come out higher in the "total feature, price is no object" ranking they were using. Of course, in the comparison, they then mention (but didn't include) the more comparable pricewise Azera.... they also ragged that the Sonata was a car benchmarked against cars a generation ago, and gave extra points for the >07< Camry for having a tire pressure monitoring system and satelite radio. If all '07s are going to have tire pressure monitoring systems (is that the rumor I'm hearin, or is that fact?) due to a government mandate, scratch that feature as anything special, and Hyundai has already announced that all '07s will have XM Radio, so scratch that (it should be '07-'07, not '07-'06, for all of them... I think that might have hurt the Accord the most, though).

Anyhow, it just seemed like they gushed over the Camry, said it was the best, then said "Buy the Sonata instead, regardless."

mrdisco33

The recommendation i found odd. if the comparison was money no object the Camry should win hands down based on all the toys you get. Also the comparison didn't make such sense to me - a Camry XLE is a near-luxury vehicle imo (and certaintly the price they are asking reflects that). It should have gone up against the Azera (you got reclining seats, we have a rear sunshade).

I think for most ppl money is a factor and the Sonata will handily beat the competition (provided they can prove their reliablity and build quality is up to par). I know based on comparisons i'm doing nothing in its class come close on a value metric.

bimmer4me

"A funny thing happened on the way to the forum, and that was that the 2006 Sonata, while being a completely competent, even exceptional vehicle in its own right, is about one model-generation behind the competition" :surprise:

backy

Yes, it is one model generation behind the Camry--the Camry just came out, and the Sonata debuted in 2004. Duh. Is it one model generation behind the Accord? Well, not IMO especially comparing the Accord's dated styling to the Sonata's sleek lines. Is it a model generation behind the Fusion? More the other way around; anyway, the Fusion came in last place. What a ridiculous comment, in the review.

tanky1981

on driving my 2005 sonata v6 the other day i heard a noise coming from around about the air vent on my right hand drive car. the best description of this sound is like a cricket (as in the insect) in that it was a sound that occured every second or so, not a continous sound but consistent in the frequency with which it occured. Not identical to the sound made by a cricket, but it is the best replication of the sound that i can think of. im not even sure if it was my car, it only occured when stationary at a set of lights, and i had my window down, not really sure where the sounds was coming from, it may have been my car so wondering if anyone has experienced anything even partially similar to this...

averigejoe

If yours is a 2005 Sonata then you should not address this board. There is another one set up for a Sonata older than 2006.
How much quieter is the 2006 compared to the 2005 ? (for those who've been in both)

tb88

INTERIOR NOISE (dBA) - 2006
Idle: 38
Full throttle: 75
Steady 60 mph: 62

The 2004/2005 have a significantly higher noise dBA

johnap2

Maybe I am reading your post wrong, but the Sonata did not debut in 2004. The Sonata debuted in 1989 with redesigns in 1993, 1995, 1998, 2000, 2004, and 2006 with the 7th style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Sonata

joe97

I believe Backy was talking about the NF (the new model), which was first released late 2004, but only in its home market.