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Comments
"It's not that amazing. The Sienna weighs about 400 pounds less (almost 10% less) than the Odyssey. And by the way, the '05 Sienna is rated at 26mpg highway, unlike the '04 which was at 27mpg..."
One more reason - the Sienna will give you the above numbers with premium fuel only. Sure, you can use regular with no problem, but it will slightly hurt mileage.
And don't forget the 25 hp difference...
Therefore lower sticker numbers.
The AWD versions of the Sienna have their own EPA MPG estimates which are lower than the FWD versions.
The same thing applies to Canadian ratings which are different for the FWD and AWD models.
It seems all Sienna weights fall within a 55 lb window from low to high trim for each drive configuration (from 4120 to 4175 lbs for FWD models and from 4310 to 4365 lbs for AWD models).
However, the 8 passenger CE/LE weighs 10 lbs more than the 7 passenger XLE in FWD trim. So selling an 8 passenger model would have more of a detrimental effect than selling an XLE if the weight difference lead to a different fuel economy.
Obviously the '05 Sienna EPA ratings are lower than the '04 because the '04 did NOT deliver the EPA ratings in the real world.
Edmunds long term test Sienna was 16.6 MPG Average, GC ES 17.8 MPG, Quest 18.0 MPG, and THE BEST was the 99 Ody EX at 18.3 MPG.
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/kia/sedona/100458771/preview.h- tml?tid=edmunds.f.typemindex.content.num1.2.*
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Our kids are 9,11 and 13 - past the baby/toddler stage. After making ourselves almost crazy going between the two cars we finally loaded up the kids and took them for a drive in both cars. The cost between similarly equipped cars was tiny (I think $15/mo on a 39 month lease, which is right for us).
Our kids, who are, like their friends, tall and getting taller, were more comfortable in the Odyssey seats and with the leg room in the second and third seats. I am not sure if there really is more room, if they are just configured differently or just a perception on their part, but that's how they felt!
Even without the power lift gate (the Odyssey gate is easily lifted and they can do it themselves), there was plenty of "wow" factor in the Odyssey for them. They liked the bigger DVD screen that we will use for trips with the fold flat wireless head phones. Both cars have more cup holders than we will ever use. I ended up liking the front tray v. console. I put my purse under there when driving so it's not in the way.
I do like the color choices of the Toyota better and there is some plug in the back (115v ?) in the Toyota that my son could plug in his laptop w/o his adapter. But I like the control locations on the Honda. I think the "lazy susan" is kind of weird, I can't imagine what I'd put in there that I wouldn't put somewhere else, but maybe something will come up...
Our Honda salesman was not a jerk, the local Toyota dealer was, so we dealt with the internet Toyota salesman just across the river.
I am a Toyota fan (I had been happily driving a 02 Sequoia), but am also very happy with the drive and features of the Odyssey. Neither van is perfect, both are nice. We chose seat comfort, leg room and handling over bells and whistles, but either is a good choice.
Hope my 2 cents worth help!
Let's go over the numbers ONE more time, shall we?
The Sienna XLE has a curb weight of approx. 4165 lbs. Therefore, each one of the 230 hp has to move along 18.1 lbs. (4165/230, otherwise known as a power to weight ratio.) It also has 242 ft.lbs. of torque, which works out to 17.2 lbs of mass to each ft.lb. of torque.
Now, the Odyssey EX-L has a curb weight of approx. 4537 lbs. Therefore, each one of the 255 hp has to motivate 'only' 17.8 lbs. That is a SLIGHTLY better power/weight ratio. It also has 250 ft.lbs. of torque, which works out to 'hefty' 18.1 lbs. per ft.lb. of torque.
Therefore, the Ody has a slight hp advantage (17.8 vs. 18.1), whereas the Sienna has a torque advantage (17.2 vs. 18.1).
Both vehicles are PLENTY powerful enough. Both vehicles are essentially the SAME under real world conditions. Can we move on to another meaningless statistic like the fact the Ody standard tire is 10mm wider?
From my position, I find it just amazing what is of utmost importance to some can be of little or no value to others at all.
What would have been "a nice feature to have" in the past, now becomes a MUST HAVE item.
Interesting reading in any event...
Let not talk about horsepower. This is a minivan... It will not handle well (not matter what Honda ads say). Even Accord (a plain vanilla family car) would handle much better then any minivan. If any vans had less then 120hp, then it would be a valid point.
Let talk about cupholders again instead :-)
So many cupholders and no lavatory, that's the issue
So, I guess you are right, the extra leg room in the Odyssey, real, or perceived is a "must have."
Besides, isn't this forum to compare the two vans?
I would like to see that drag race, though. Us "soccer moms" (tennis in our case), like to have fun, too
Extra legroom doesn't fall into that catagory, at least for me because this IS important.
Others will disagree I suppose.
My wife an I both preferred the Ody 3rd row. The seat belts fit her better, and my legs were jammed up in the Sienna (less head room too). The 2nd row was great in each one.
I also found the drivers seat in the Ody to be more comfortable. The cushion felt longer (more thigh support), and the seat bottom tilt felt more natural to me. I just felt more comfortable, which is important since I normally drive it on the long trips.
I also prefer the firmer ride and handling over the softer ride/handling set-up of the Sienna. But, I would drive a Maxima SE instead of a Buick too, so you can tell where my priorities lie.
Bottom line, both are nice, loaded and will serve a family well. I could probably buy either one and the family will be very happy.
Just decide what features are most important to you, and buy the van that fits your tastes (or budget) the best. To me, that's probably the Ody EX-L over the XLE #6, since it wins on both counts (what I want, and cheaper).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Went to another toyota dealer on Friday to give toyota another try and they had an XLE with Option package #8 (nav and DVD) sitting there. The inside looked much nicer than the Ody. The faux wood trim dresses the inside up nicely. Floor mats, cargo nets, cross bars, leather wrapped steering wheel and gear shifter, and fog lamps all were included and not charged extra for (unlike the Ody). The dealership was willing to deal. The ride was very nice. Didn't find it to be soooo inferior to the Honda. The power lift gate was awesome. Again, not on the EX-L trim of the Honda and if we went Touring, I'd have those not so fabulous, try and find them in real life-- PAX tires-- no thanks. I was wondering why at over $30k I was compromising for the Honda? No power lift gate, no leather wraps, first year bumps, dumb plus one seat to store, and no 110 outlets-- and the privilege of paying sticker (or nominally under it) for the Ody.
No thanks! Bought the Toyota on Friday, love it. Probably would have loved the Ody, it's a nice van and I'm sure voice activated NAVI is cool, but would have missed the remote power lift gate! And since I've never had NAV to begin with, I'm thrilled with this version.
I disagree with you on prices comment. Often people talk about prices in relationship to MSRP. Would you feel better if Honda set MSRP for Odyssey at 100k and dealers were offering 50k off MSRP? Of course not. Final cost would be 50k and that's what matters. It's not how much car is discounted from bogus MSRP, it's how much you have to pay to get items that are important to you.
NAVI for some is a MUST HAVE and a power liftgate is something most people could care less about.
The "dumb" plus one seat is a "great feature" to others. and most people would never use a 110 outlet.
It's great to have choices!
We have a little different priority - the need for an 8 passenger minivan. That restricts us to the Sienna LE (since 8 passenger is not available on the XLE or Ltd) and Odyssey EX. We like the Honda's window shades, 2nd power door, floor storage and little extra punch, but like the Sienna's real 8th seat, 3rd row vent windows and price (at least $2k less).
We have a 2000 Sienna right now and love it but we have outgrown it with our 4th child. We don't care much about the luxuries - although Nav sounds great - and will probably buy an aftermarket DVD player with a bigger screen.
We have found a Toyota and Honda dealer that we like and trust, and are torn on our next step. We probably have some time before we have to buy, but could cut the check tomorrow if we could actually make a decision.
Thanks everyone for your input.
I've just got to figure out which features I care most about (hmmm, do I want that occasional use +1 seat or do I what a power liftgate? Do I want that in-floor storage or do I want a nice center console that I can place in either row?)
Decisions, decisions, decisions.....
thanks, lh
Anyways, I notice that the Toyota website now has up the 05 Sienna package information. On the XLE, that we are trying to get educated on...it only goes up to 12 packages, around 5 have of those have a DVD player that we do not need, and 1 of the packages is nothing more than safety items that really should be standard on a van of this stature/quality. Why not roll these features into the price of the vehicle ie., the Ody and just move on.
One of my questions is on this site, the # of packages available for consideration on the XLE
goes up to 15 but #'s 8/9/10/11/12 appear to be missing. Any idea, why? We have been talking to a Toyota representative who has not disputed any of my talking numbers ie., invoice pricing. This dealership has offered to sell at 3% over invoice on an '05 Sienna. I have a good feeling about the talks so far...the biggest problem I am having is getting the right match on the packages to then weigh the pricing vs. an Odyssey EX or EX-L.
We purchased our Honda vans from 2 different dealerships and the one that lost out last time has intimated that MSRP is not a hard price with them. And just today the sales manager at the dealership where we purchased our current '02 van called me because I had mentioned to a service department rep that I was interested in the '05s "when the craziness calmed down". He said while their '05s are pretty much going for sticker that something could be done for us because they want to keep us as a customer.
I am not an idiot. I know that the trade can spoil any deal. I have purchased enough vehicles to walk away from any potential purchase if I do not feel that it is in everyone's best interests. Buying a vehicle is a business decision and nothing more.
Our biggest issue with the Honda van is the lack of room on front passenger side. With the Sienna, it is the higher MSRP once you equip the vehicle properly. The packages can force you to pay for things you do not want (moonroof, 17 inch wheels) to get something you do wish to have (rear disc brakes, leather seats). The gas issue with the Toyota worrys me a tad, too. As many others have mentioned there are pluses and some minuses on both vehicles. But for the money, these 2 "boxes with wheels" are, to us, the best available.
We looked at both models, too. With the features we wanted the leases were within $15 (both were below MSRP, the Honda dealer "got real" when he realized we were serious buyers.)
We ended up in the Odyssey because my 6'4" husband was more comfortable in the passenger seat. He said the Sienna seat hit him mid-thigh and was uncomfortable. He also has trouble with head room, but even with the sunroof, he is comfortable in the Odyssey.
Steve, Host
The glove box of the 2005 does NOT seem to intrude into the front passenger knee space on the 2005 Ody as it does on my son's 2001 Ody EX.
The 2nd row seats of the Sienna are not comfortable for me although the driver, front passenger, and 3rd row seats are.
Don
goes up to 15 but #'s 8/9/10/11/12 appear to be missing. Any idea, why?"
Package #8 (and probably 9-12 as well) is available to 2005 XLE FWD but not AWD.
So Toyota can if they want, they just need competition! :-(
Right now I'm torned between Odyseey EX and Sienna LE with Package#6. Ody is about 1.5K more expensive because I can get some discout on the LE but none on the EX. Any suggesstions?
Are these bags really useful , or are they put there just for "competitive pressure". The salesman for some reason seemed to think that this was fluff
We have a 2 year-old and hopefully 2 more on the way
what do you think ?
But you buy a new minivan every three years, thus taking a big hit in depreciation, and likely trading in or selling a vehicle with many good miles left on it.
Buying a new minivan every three years may be a business decision, but it is certainly not a good business decision.
That is a huge difference. While side impact crashes are infrequent, compared to rear-end and head-on collisions, there is less car (no engine or trunk space) to protect you. Side impacts are typical of someone running a red light or stop sign. And with more drivers talking on cellphone and not paying attention, more accidents are likely. Another study showed that the hands-free phone accessories do not help with driver in-attention.
The IIHS has a few side impact tests for the same car with & without side curtain airbags. Those without were rated Poor as the occupant's head struck the window, possibly causing severe head injury. Vehicle with side curtain was rated Good (best rating).
Ok Toyota fans, let's hear about your NAV please.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But, in the end they got it all taken care of and things are peachy at Toyota Princeton. Just some info on how well Toyota operates and gets it done.
Get er dun as the rednecks say.
"Get real, let's hear from someone who has actually used these systems. The Titannic looked great on paper too! .... IBM products are not always fool proof. (or did you think voice rec was invented by Honda)"
Like my 8288 address wasn't recognized, I had to use 8300. But all in all I have played with it, it rocks. How cool is it when the kids friends are in the back, you hit the button....Play DVD....XM Radio Channel 144....Climate Control Balance...Find nearest chinese restaurant...You are a cool dad they go home to mom and dad saying that the Smiths 2005 Odyssey kicks our new Sienna's butt. Had to put that jab in there.
Over 600, that's over 600 voice recognizable commands.
Also manually will be way faster that the voice address game. But if it is in already, you can say it and it will come up.....Hope this helps.