Toyota Yaris

dmundy1

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050830-2.htm
Toyota Canada is also changing the name to Yaris, kind of surprising considering how well the Echo (sedan and hatch) has sold up here. It is suppose to arrive here in October as a 2006 model, so if you would like a preview keep an eye on some Canadian based auto web sites. Also, (start of rant) I find it kind of funny when people claim they would not buy a compact car citing crash safety, when I believe it has more to do with vanity, people not wanting to be seen driving an inexpensive (cheap) compact car by family and friends. If your first thought when slipping behind the wheel of a Yaris, Fit, ect. is one of your imminent demise do us all a favor and buy a bicycle, for you lack the basic confidence required to operate any motor vehicle safely (end of rant, thanks).

jchan2

as the structure is designed well, crash test issues shouldn't be much of a problem.
(unless you're broadsided by a semi, now we might have problems)

307web

Or broadsided by any significantly larger and heavier vehicle (which will be the majority of vehicles on the road).
The chance of being hit by another car of equal or lesser size is quite slim when you are in a car like the Echo/Yaris.

dudleyr

Of course being a smaller and more maneuverable target the chances of getting hit are actually lower.

iluvmysephia1

like the feeling I get inside every time I see Tommy Lee or Motely Stew on TV.

If you're so afraid of driving a little rig you probably shouldn't be in a larger rig, either. A small car like the Echo would be very maneuverable out on the road and if a person has enough sense about them they can avoid a lot of "crash" situations with a healthy dosage of common sense.

I throw it into the lack of signaling on America's freeways category. It's a bad habit to get into, this habit of not signaling your intention to change lanes on the freeway. Who got this bright idea that it doesn't matter, that's literally sweeping the country the last few years? It does matter and it's so easy to do, it's a good habit to get into and keep. Good driving manners are tied into good driving skills, which include the lead subject here, crash avoidance.

Slowing down a bit and watching what you're doing never hurts and leaving your stupid cell phone at home is a great idea, too. See what I mean, I could type on and on about driving safety, because it's a common sense issue. Avoiding driving a small car ain't gonna save you anyway if you drive like a moron off the block. Correcto-mundo, dudes?

micweb

From what I had read previously, the Vitz and Yaris are supposed to be cousins built on the same platform. But while overseas I saw the new Vitz, and it wasn't anything like an Echo or Scion xA. It was a lot larger, the size of the new Mazda5 (but had regular car doors, not minivan sliding doors), and a 2.0 engine; three row seating.

The link posted earlier to the Toyota USA press release showed a more Scion xA sized Yaris.

I wonder if the Scion xA is going to shift over to the Yaris platform...but until we see the actual measurements (originally the Yaris was an inch or two longer in the wheelbase) we won't know if the change would be meaningful.

BTW, the Scion xA was nowhere to be seen - but there were a lot of Honda Fits/Jazz's.

biker4

Overseas you get some different versions of a vehicle with the same name designation. Like the Avensis Verso - on the outside it is quite different than the regular sedan. The Vitz you saw was probably one of these variants that will not make it to the US.

giantkiller

Spot on!

billmchale

Is this thing going to have a tach? I am a dedicated stick driver so a tachometer is pretty much a requirement for me.

beernut

Now you've hit on a sore subject. It is oxymoronic to say that you are a dedicated stick driver and that you require a tach.

Beginning stick drivers may require a tach.

billmchale

Why is it oxymoronic? I have been driving a stickshift for half my life now (ever since I got my license). While you can reasonably shift under normal conditions just by the sound of the engine, a Tach is useful for getting the most out of the engine. Alot of these small displacement engines get awfully buzzy in that last 1000 RPMs before redline and it can be hard to tell when they are about to hit redline without a tach. Heck, they also come in useful for rev matching on a downshift. I don't even need to be looking direcly at it.. I can usually get enough info from my periphal vision.

The oxymoronic thing is putting tachs in cars with automatics...

micweb

My current 2005 Ford Focus ZX3 has been decontented to the point that it no longer has a tachometer. Surprisingly, I don't miss it as much as I thought. There is a useful "idiot's guide to upshifts" light in the dash which gives you shift information based on rpm and throttle position - I find it useful not for fuel economy, but for an indication of where the best upshift points are (where you'll get equal acceleration for that throttle position after upshifting). Although I have take many engines to their redline, I find they run out of torque at higher rpm and although there is a lot of noise there really isn't that much power. The main advantage of letting the engine rev higher in certains situations is saving the time required to throw a shift with a manual tranny. So if I am passing I may prefer to leave it in the lower gear longer than technically efficient so as to not lose the time it takes to shift.

The real advantage of a manual is that it will hold the gear as you slow into a curve and then come out of it again. Auto trannies sometimes throw shifts at awkward moments....

themoon77

Is it safe to assume the new Echo/Yaris will see 30s in the city and 40s on the highway? I never thought I would like the looks of a small car--the current Echo is a little awkward in that too tall and narrow sort of way. The Yaris, however, has a sort of chunkiness in its front end that I think looks kind of cool. I have an old beater Camry wagon that I would love to park and fix up, and it looks like this new Yaris is the ticket for these days of ever inflating fuel costs.

I read of concerns about safety. I cant imagine this car coming out without the government having done crash tests to prove that it won't be a death trap.

Steve Edge

jchan2

It won't be a death trap, but if a Ford Excursion or Hummer H2 slams into you, its hard to avoid the laws of physics, no matter how smart the Toyota engineers are.

I'd use it as a city car, an errand runner, a car to drop kids off at school, soccer practice, golf games, etc.

I wouldn't take it on the highway.

For those trips, I've got my Odyssey!

307web

If it's too dangerous for the highway, it's too dangerous for dropping kids off at school. More likely to get in a wreck on city streets by a red light runner etc..

billmchale

Really when it comes down to it, if you are going to get hit by a H2 an excursion or a Semi, even a midsize car is only of limited value, particularly if it is a side impact.

The thing we need to remember is that compared to 30 years ago, even the smallest cars on the road today (even the Smarts) are safer than pretty much any car on the road back then. Many of us are worried about safety, and we are right to do so... in many if not most cases, it is not only our own life we are putting at risk. That being said, no amount of safety equipment will ever make the difference that solid defensive driving skills applied by a confident driver will.

So is the Yaris small? Yep. Is the Yaris a death trap? Nope.

beernut

I agree with you on automatics having tachs - makes me vomit. In the mid/late sixties, we went to Warshawski's and bought gauges for everything. Having the dash lit up like the Madame Larue pinball machine equated to sex, I guess. Four or five years ago, I noticed it was coming back... four cylinder Dodges, Hondas, Nissans with after market windows, gauge bars, decals, goofy looking tail pipe tips. Its all a lot of crap, IMO.

But back to the tach, what are you doing that you need to "get the most" out of your engine that the tach helps you with? The driver's seat will tell your butt cheeks where your shift points, max torque, cam float, etc is. How much time do you spend driving within 1K of red anyway?

Put a sticky-note over the tach and drive your usual routine for a few weeks. Let your car teach you how to drive it.

billmchale

I am not going to get into an argument with you over this. I find the tach a very useful guage to get the most out of an engine, particularly small displacement engines like the the one in the Yaris. And suprisingly enough to answer your one question, trying to merge onto the DC beltway at times requires getting to speed as fast as possible which often means getting the car awfully close to the redline before shifts.

backy

I used to think a tach with an automatic was unneccessary. Then I found out that the tach can help me maximize fuel economy by helping me keep revs as low as possible while cruising. That wasn't a problem when small cars were not well insulated, and you could drive by the sound of the engine. But now that small cars are quieter, the tach helps me a lot. I can see, for example, when the 4th gear overdrive kicks in and drops revs from around 2000 to about 1500. Almost no difference in engine noise between 2000 and 1500 on my car, but a big difference in fuel economy!

beernut

Oh.

beernut

I always like learning new things, backy, especially if I can improve my consumption numbers.

How does a tach help with fuel economy while cruising in an automatic? I understand the whole revs thing, but by "cruising" I assume you mean continuous 60 or better and you're in top gear (lowest rpm) anyway.

If you get in a situation where the auto needs to downgear on you, its because the car says it needs it to keep the engine in the power vs. economy range. What do you do to manipulate the engine or trans to improve mileage that a tach helps you with?

backy

"Cruising" in this context is at 35-50 mph on level suburban roads. At those speeds, it is right on the threshhold between 3rd and 4th gear (with my car anyway). So by manipulating the throttle just a bit (feathering I think it's called), I can make the car slip into overdrive vs. staying in 3rd. Since my car is very quiet at low revs (and the engine and tranny are hard to hear if there is any window open or the radio on), the tach helps me know when I have in fact moved from 3rd to 4th.

Over about 50 mph, as you noted, the car will stay in 4th gear anyway when cruising so the tach isn't needed at that point.

beernut

Got it.

jchan2

True.
If you're going to be hit by an H2, A Yaris vs. an Accord won't make much of a difference I guess.

The only way I can think of that you can survive in a collision with an H2 in a side impact case would probably be in another H2...

themoon77

I honestly can't imagine needing a tach in a Yaris. Since I'll be upshifting asap to eek the most mileage out of it that I can, a tach wouldn't be necessary to me. As far as knowing where the rev limiter is, I've hit 'em several times and never done damage. Most of all, in a 95 civic--and it had a tach. Engine was so smooth I would be redlining it to get up to speed on the highway ramp and (looking in the mirror for other traffic, not paying attention to the tach) bounce it off the limiter quite often. I did, however, hook up a tach to my 89 Camry so I could tell my tech how high the idle was in the morning. Tach or no tach, I think I will enjoy the Yaris. Good arguments have been made here though, so to each his own. Know what I would like to have though? One of those vacuum-operated fuel mileage gauges that you see in BMWs. THAT would be really cool.

Steve Edge

chris65amg

That Yaris looks really nice. Puny, but nice.
I like it.

I also like tachs in my cars, but some people don't. I suppose it takes all types.

iluvmysephia1

Echo's with that metallic green color that is on the Vitz from one of the links in an earlier post. I had it on my Windows background screen for a week or two, then changed it to another Vitz just recently. The design is a nice one, small but nice, indeed.

Post anything new you hear about the Toyota Yaris/Vitz/Echo in here, OK? My mind is an Echo sponge!

jchan2

I don't have a preference on Tachs. I drive an Automatic. But lately my new car purchases have come with tachs. (Odyssey and I35)

Only my 1999 Honda Civic has no tach, but its an automatic so its fine.

yifflover_69

I up everyone else, all 3 of my vehicles have had tachs, and they we're automatic!!
It helps me determine how much throttle to apply, especially when driving on a level area. Instead of letting the engine spin up to 2500rpm, you can use the tach to let it go up to only 2000rpm. It also lets you see how much faster your engine is spinning when exceeding the local speed limit.
I also practice the Neutral coast, and sometimes even with the engine off :surprise: (of course no one try that unless you are a certified id10t like me!)
I am sure the Yaris would benefit from this as most cars do (as the engine size gets bigger this is less practical, obviously).
I heard that the Yaris would use the Old echo's 1.5L? I wonder if they will turbo it as they did with the RS Vitz in Japan, just make sure it gives good economy with the turbo unlike with the XRS 1.8 engine. I mean come on, there is a 7mpg difference and only a 38hp difference!
The Yaris definitely doesn't look bad, I thought they would make it look hideous, so I am happy about that. I hope they equip the cars well however, because being required to pay extra for power steering and a rear window defroster is just silly :P
Anyone else that can get hard info please do, because most of my knowledge is just speculation.

carmen1

Any news as to whether we will get the Yaris in September? Mid-September would be nice, it's my birthday! :surprise:

Having gone three months without a car is torture. I hate our transit system and biking in the city will eventually get me killed (bad bad bad drivers on cell phones.)

carmen1

Any news as to whether we will get the Yaris in September? Mid-September would be nice, it's my birthday! :surprise: BTW Vancouver British Columbia Canada.

Having gone three months without a car is torture. I hate our transit system and biking in the city will eventually get me killed (bad bad bad drivers on cell phones.)

rossm2

The release date is 17 October (one day after MY birthday). I'm hoping that I'll be able to pick up my Yaris 5-door RS on that date. I ordered it a couple of weeks ago, and the wait is getting a bit much, but your situation sounds significantly worse than mine. I wish I could give you better news. Oh, and yes, the official name IS now Yaris, not Echo.

beernut

An earlier post said release date in US is December for delivery in March '06 (as an '07 model).

Any newer news?

iluvmysephia1

on the March '06 delivery date for 2007 Toyota Echo's. Or will they be called Yaris' in the U.S., too?

So, the U.S is getting the sedan and not the hatch, and Canada is getting the hatchback, is that right? This speculation game poses more questions than it does answers!

rossm2

Here is the US Toyota site - not speculation:

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/yaris.html

The new version will be called Yaris in both Canada and the US. It arrives in Canada in October 2006 as a 2006, and in Spring 2006 as a 2007 in the US. Word is the the US will get the 3 and 5-door hatches (definitely) and a sedan (probably). There has been no word about a sedan in Canada so far as I've heard.

gwido

"It arrives in Canada in October 2006 as a 2006 [...]"

You probably mean "It arrives in Canada in October 2005 as a 2006 model-year"

rossm2

Oops - October 17, 2005! Sorry about that! MIne is all ordered and better not arrive in 2006.

themoon77

We get them here in the US in October? Awesome.

I like the green one too, like the person who wants it on their background. I wonder if they will have any orangey shades.

rossm2

No, we get them here in Canada in October - note the little flag? In the States, the arrival date - as a 2007 - is in the Spring!

themoon77

Just as well. Gives me time to save up for a bigger down payment!

beernut

I read on this board that you can order one in the US on December 12. It probably will only require $500 or so to reserve your slot for a March '06 delivery. THEN you will need the cash.

Save up $2,000 a month until then and away you go.

I'm assuming it will have the same 1.5L. Does anybody have different information?

themoon77

One of the magazines I just picked up, either Motor Trend or Road and Track, noted that the engine is indeed the 1.5. They also noted mileage to be 32-36 mpg. Is that the best we can expect even for highway travel?

kennyray

It doesn't need the 1.5 L engine -- 1.2 or 1.3 L would be enough. Better 1.3, and then for performance they could throw on a turbo (140+ HP). That way the non-turbo'd motors would be extra robust in the bottom end and last a good long time. That 1.5 L out of the Echo doesn't get that good of gas mileage, and that's one of the reasons I bought a Corolla last time a round. There has to be significant fuel savings to make it worth down-sizing.

smlcarguy

Hi: I'm looking for the best mpg and great versatility in a small car and just heard Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris h.b. both coming to Canada, with Yaris sooner. Also heard Echo sedan totally revised and keeps name. Any opinions and links on all 3 of these? I'd rather buy sooner than later unless Fit is definitely worth waiting for but haven’t even heard official engines and mpg etc on any and if still no word by time Yaris/Echo is out then decision time, buy or wait???

backy

One of these mags (I think MT) mentioned that the Yaris would offer an auto-stop feature and maybe a CVT. Interesting....

kernick

you: noted that the engine is indeed the 1.5. They also noted mileage to be 32-36 mpg.

me: that would be disappointing. I'd expect low 40'smpg would be the rating of a new small car model. For example a Pontiac G6 sedan is rated for 32mpg highway with a 3.5L and a 4-spd auto. If you're giving up significant size, power, and safety, and going to a manual I'd expect to get significantly better mpg. A 5mpg gain or so is very minimal.

rossm2

I have the Canadian Yaris spec sheet in front of me. Yes it is a 1.5 litre engine.

Mileage "official" mileage figures from Toyota Canada converted to US gallons:
Manual: 34 city, 42.7 highway
Automatic: 33 city, 40.5 highway

Please note that according to Consumer Reports and real-world experience, the Echo got very close to EPA figures, something that could not be said for the majority of cars.

alany

The EPA numbers (which are good but on par with a Corolla) are not the whole story. According to Consumer Reports' testing, the Echo is the most fuel-efficient gasoline powered car on the road. They rank it above the Civic *hybrid* in terms of mileage, which is impressive.

Canada's EnerGuide mileage tests also show the Echo getting better mileage than the Corolla. They rate it as 42 mpg city / 54 mpg highway. That's for the 2005 Echo.

rossm2

The figures you cite are also in Imperial gallons, not US gallons which are almost 20% smaller.

And yes, I am well aware that in the "real world", the 2005 Echo hatchback and sedan got MUCH better mileage than the Corolla.

kernick

Thanks for the better data. That's more appropriate mpg for this size car and engine. I'll have to put this car back on my "looksee" list.