yeah, it should probably start at something like $11,999 for the 3-door and something like $12,999 for the 5-door hatchback in the States. Give or take a hundred bucks here or there. Now, that should include air conditioning and power W/D/M's and a well-fitted stereo that rocks the auto-house nicely.
The '06 xB starts at $14,395 US including destination, well-equipped with side bags, ABS, and VSC. The '06 Corolla CE with side airbags and ABS (both of which are supposed to be standard on the Yaris, if I remember the reports correctly) but not power windows/locks starts at $15,590 US. So there is room to slot the Yaris in at $12-15k. Like you mentioned, I could see a stripper 3-door price-leader (meaning almost none are made/sold) at $11,999.
....smart shoppers will be able to get into an xB for high 13's and into a Corolla for high 14's. Who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay 12-13 for a Yaris when they could spend 1-2 more and get the xB or the Corolla? The answer to that is nobody. That's why I think the Yaris will have to be priced at 10-11 or it simply will not sell. And yes price is the main reason the Echo was a poor seller. When comparably equipped, the Echo was stickered at almost the same price as the Corolla. That's just plain ignorant on Toyota's part.
If it gets much better MPG than a Corolla or xB and has standard side curtain airbags (not available on xB and hard to find on Corolla) and good crash test results, then people will still buy it as a cheap alternative to the Prius. In the last few years, most buyers were not that concerned about gas mileage as they are now. The Echo also had goofy styling which was a big turn off. If it were to cost around the same as a Corolla with side curtain airbags and only get a little better mpg, then it would be a hard sell.
"If it were to cost around the same as a Corolla with side cutain airbags and only get a little better mileage, then it would be hard to sell."
You've described the Echo (with the exception of the side curtain airbags of course) to the tee, hence the dismal sales figures. The vast majority of people who buy sub-compacts don't do so based on the vehicle's looks. They buy them because they're economical to purchase and drive. I've never seen a sub-compact I would call good looking. It would end up being too impractical of a vehicle if looks were a major concern. Space needs to be maximized and looks suffer because of it. Take away the economical purchase price and half of the reason to buy a sub-compact in the first place is gone. I'm telling you, if Toyota ends up pricing the Yaris at more than $12K, they will end up sitting on dealer's lots collecting dust.
They buy them because they're economical to purchase and drive.
Keep the Yaris simple with the key objective of saving fuel. That 1.3L engine may do the job quite well . That would be an unlikely scenario since it will take more than high gas prices at $3 to terminate the performance/power addiction among most N. American car consumers(economical or premium luxury cars).
My view is that there are enough powerful vehicles in N. America( in fact we have quite a gas consuming power glut in terms of autos)---it is about time that we should have a wider choice of frugal gas miser cars that do not pretend to be boy racer vehicles.
If it gets much better gas mileage than a Corolla and costs much, much less than a Prius it will sell even if the price is near the starting price of a stripped Corolla. If it was EPA estimated at over 35MPG in the city and over 45MPG highway with automatic, it would be a very attractive commuter car.
We are comparing apples to oranges here. You are comparing discounted prices on xBs and Corollas to (estimated) list prices on the new Yaris. If a buyer can get $1000 off on a Corolla, they could probably do it on a Yaris also. But in my area at least, all Scion dealers have a no-haggle price policy--everyone pays sticker. I thought that was true across the board, but it seems the Scion dealers in your area are willing to negotiate some.
I think $2k under the xB or Corolla CE would be quite reasonable for the new Yaris, with comparable equipment. As has been pointed out, there isn't that much cost savings building a Yaris vs. a Corolla. And I'd rather pay a few bucks more for a quality small car with a nicer interior than the ECHO had, and full safety features, than get a stripped car like the old base ECHO. If I need to buy a car for $10k or less, I can always buy a year-old model.
My point is the Yaris is estimated to have fuel economy figures which are about the same as that of the Echo, which are not much higher than that of the Corolla. The current Corolla will do low to mid 30's city and low to mid 40's highway. People are not going to be willing to pay the same price, or close to the same price for a much smaller car that only get 3-5 MPG more than the Corolla.
backy
ALL dealers will work with you on price IF they want your business, even the ones that claim to have no haggle pricing. YOU may be willing to pay only $2K less than an xB or a Corolla for the Yaris, but I'm willing to bet MOST people won't be.
The Corolla mileage is not that high. 30/38 is EPA estimates for automatic (which is what I was talking about and mentioned in the previous post).
Anecdotally, people may get better or worse mileage, but I'm talking about EPA estimates. If you beat EPA estimates on the Corolla, you should also beat them on a Yaris, but the EPA numbers are the guide to compare cars. So if the Yaris gets over 35 mpg city and over 45 mpg highway with automatic from the EPA, it will be enough to sway people when gas is expensive. I'm sure it will also be priced lower than a Corolla.
In my area, "no-haggle" means just that. But market dynamics (and business ethics) are different in different places, so I wouldn't be surprised if in your part of the world dealers that advertise to be "no-haggle" will give on that policy on occasion. Once others find out about it, however (e.g. someone posts their experience on Edmunds.com), they might as well kiss their "no-haggle" sham good-bye.
Echo's price range is $13,000-$17,500. Corolla's price range is $15,000-$24,000. Matrix is $16,000-$24,000. The very fact is that there is a whole range of cars and if people like a nice sedan they'd go for the Corolla, the younger crowd who tends to like cool looking cars and also have the convenience of a hatchback would go for the Echo. I know I prefer a hatch because of the amount of camping I do. That $1,000-$2,000 argument is therefore not a factor. Obviously personal opinion factors what car you end up getting. My price range limit is $16,000 and I'd rather get a Yaris LE that's for sure.
"I've never seen a sub-compact I would call good looking."
I agree with this mostly. The upcoming Yaris, Fit, and Versa are all ugly to me (not that it will keep me from buying one). The Echo is very ugly, and so is the Scion XA.
But, the VW Polo is a nice looking car (we aren't worthy in the US)
and the upcoming Opel Astra diesel hybrid is very good looking.
looks, and that is what is driving me into researching them more. To me, with the sporty new Echo's looks that most all of us have already seen by now on the net, the car is well worth taking an extendo-look at. I would go for the 5-door hatchback and, if the car came with A/C, power W/D/M's, a strong stereo and updated safety features, would pay up to $13,999 for it. That is also with a money-saving 5-speed manual tranny, a must for any car I drive.
Give or take a college grad rebate and/or a dealer incentive here or there, eh?
I think it looks much more attractive than the Scion xA and the old Echo, for example.
The upcoming Yaris, Fit, and Versa are all ugly to me (not that it will keep me from buying one).
Having seen pictures of the Honda Fit and 2007 Toyota Yaris, they not THAT bad looking. I for am actually kind of interested in trading in my 1998 Honda Civic HX CVT coupé for a 2007 Honda Fit myself. If Toyota had offered the CVT automatic as an option I would have seriously considered getting a Yaris myself.
(By the way, I'm starting to hear rumors that VW might be interested in selling the Polo in the USA, provide they can keep the production costs down at their Mexican and Brazilian plants. VW doesn't want to be left behind when the B-segment cars suddenly become hot-selling commodities.)
Excuse a Limey from getting in on your chat but I have to say that I'm on my third Yaris and this time it's the diesel 1.4. For fuel economy read 'tight-fisted', as a driving instructor I get up to 65mpg and if I drive it tops 70mpg. Why car manufacturers in the US and Canada don't sell more diesels I'll never know but I guess with the cost of gas soaring at the moment now would be a good time to start. I read on an earlier post that the Aygo is 16,000Canadian but it's more like 12,000. I'm looking forward to testing the new Yaris when it launches here around November or December.
I for am actually kind of interested in trading in my 1998 Honda Civic HX CVT coup� for a 2007 Honda Fit myself.
You can get another good 8-10 years or more out of your Civic. I kept my 88 Accord DX coupe for over 13 years. It was flawless for the first 8 years, after which I spent about $1500 on updating the a/c, a new clutch, new tires, and a few other things. I then gave it to my brother-in-law and was carless for a few years. Now I am driving a "gift" 94 Maxima with 185K miles. I still miss my Accord and I wish I'd kept it, not that the Maxima is a bad car, but I hate its hugeness and inefficiency (although I do not do too bad with it--it is rated at 22/28 but I am getting more like 26/32 out of it with my light foot).
Motleyfool.com shows a maximum reward/minimal expenditure point with keeping a car for 15 years. I hope to keep the next one for that long.
At the moment I can get a new 2005 HX Civic for $13.4 or I can wait 6 months or so for the Fit, Yaris, and Versa, or I can wait another year for the Opel Astra or wait for VW to bring us a Polo TDI. I have kind of eliminated a Corolla CE (too boring) and a Golf TDI (far too expensive with the GLS premium).
All the Hybrids are way out of my price range.
Whatever I get, I plan on being stuck with it for at least a decade so I want to be sure that I make a good decision. I'll have much greater peace of mind with a Honda or Toyota.
Why car manufacturers in the US and Canada don't sell more diesels I'll never know but I guess with the cost of gas soaring at the moment now would be a good time to start.
The reason is simple: tailpipe emissions. Remember, diesel exhaust not only has the normal oxides of nitrogen, sulfur dioxide, and unburned hydrocarbons, but also diesel particulates that can be very damaging to lungs like second hand smoke from a cigarette. That's why the USA has very strict rules about diesel exhaust emissions from automobiles, hence the reason why won't see diesel cars on a large scale in the USA until the arrival of low-sulfur diesel next summer, which will allow the use of a new generation of diesel exhaust catalytic converters that also double as diesel particulate traps.
good looking subcompacts? How about the Mini Cooper? $17K, lots of "upscale" features standard at that price, great handling and styling, if a bit of a dog in the power department.
The very biggest problem with the Echo was one mentioned recently: put in the stuff everyone wants (which is now standard in every Scion: a decent CD stereo, A/C, PW/PL/PM) and it cost MORE than a similarly equipped, higher-powered Corolla. What the heck was that idiocy on Toyota's part?
Yes it also looked like a ridiculous egg, and everyone attributes its lousy sales to that, but I think price had more to do with it.
You just KNOW that Toyota is going to trade on its good name when it prices this thing - the fact that it is a Toyota, not a Scion, will probably mean that 5-door Yaris's will go for $1000 more on the sticker than similarly equipped xA's. Which should still put them under the Matrix, their best competition in the Toyota universe.
And I suppose that when the new Corolla arrives in 18 months, it will move up in price and equipment to allow the Yaris line to grow, which will mean Corollas begin to get pricey. Just look how pricey Civics get now, which is no accident - the Fit arrives in the spring. My bet is that 2006 is the only model year of the Civic DX, after which the least expensive Civic will be the LX at almost $17,000.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
... but prices won't be revealed until October 6th.
There are 4 trim levels: 3-door CE, 3-door RS, 5-door LE and 5-door RS. All four have electric-assisted steering. The 1.5 VVT-i engine is now rated ULEV 2 and produces 106 hp. Two transmission choices: 5-speed manual and 4-speed "super ECT" automatic ABS brakes with EBD are standard on the RS, optional on the CE and LE. Fuel economy is down slightly by about 1 mpg for the auto and 2 mpg for the manual (combined city/highway).
Why car manufacturers in the US and Canada don't sell more diesels I'll never know but I guess with the cost of gas soaring at the moment now would be a good time to start.
In Canada, we do get at least one more diesel: the Smart fortwo. It's not the cheapest for what you get (they start at $16.7K Canadian), but 60 MPG is an entirely achievable figure (I've seen people getting 70+ on the mbcanada.com forums) and it's of course going to be easy to park.
That said, I'd almost like a diesel Yaris more. Not as attention-getting, but darn it... it has back seats! I haven't heard when the Smart forfour will show up in Canada yet.
of the U.S. car match those of the Canadian version, Yaris will challenge Prius for real-world gas mileage champ, I think. In fact, after that you could just consider Prius the luxury version of Yaris.
Yaris is pretty basic - I figure by the time you add in power windows and A/C (two items that will probably be installed options in EVERY SINGLE one sold here), the weight will be approaching 2425, 2450 lbs, something like that. Which is a fair amount for a 106 hp engine to be hauling around. Fast, it won't be. Probably slower, in fact, than the xA/xB. But ahhh, that great gas mileage! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think it's possible the CE will carry over to the U.S. as a price leader, w/o power package and maybe even w/o A/C (hey, Honda gets away with that with the Civic, and also Hyundai and Kia with their cars in this class).
There used to be some optional equipment available to buyers of the Echo which could raise the engine output to about 116hp. These seemed to include a bolt-on cold air intake and something called the borla sport exhaust. Any information about their availability to the Yaris, please? What effect will such equipment have on fuel consumption, if known? I just want to find out if they are worth the money( I do not even know the prices) and would be grateful for comments from gwido or any other fellow members who may have knowledge about them or have had such equipment on their cars. Some, if not all, add-ons which can increase power may also improve efficiency and thus pay for themselves over the long term in addition to giving more driving satisfaction to their owners.
You may be right, but I just don't think it's Toyota's style. They go for the extra-profit items every time, pretty much. How many Echos did you ever see without the optional A/C? I looked, and could never find a single one. Same goes for the Tacoma truck.
Wind-down windows I could maybe see, but even then I will bet they are rare, while most cars will be equipped with a power package.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There is no info yet on the Toyota Canada website about accessories and TRD equipment for the Yaris. I suppose this information will be known at the same time as the pricing: in two days.
I noticed that the only differences between the canadian 3-door CE and 5-door LE (apart from the number of doors!) seems to be the presence of power mirrors, power locks and rear wiper as standard equipment on the LE contrary to the CE.
I agree. I mentioned on an earlier post that if Toyota offers a stripped Yaris, they will be hard to find in the U.S.--just like stripped ECHOes are hard to find now (although I've seen them advertised so they do exist). They would exist mainly as an advertising ploy: "Toyota Yaris, starting at only $10,999!" or whatever. Just like Honda offers the Civic DX w/o air but how many go out the door that way?
I agree on the A/C; I only have seen one Echo without. On the other hand, I have only seen one Echo with the packages that gave it power windows, door locks, and keyless. Just about all had crank windows here. I wonder if the Yaris will be the same. The problem with the Echo was, if you added the power stuff and cruise, the price was about the same as the Corolla equipped similarly. Most of the Echos here had options but it was rear defroster, A/C, power steering, and protection/rip off items.
power steering - there was ANOTHER "option" you never saw an Echo without. It actually wasn't that expensive IIRC - like $250 - but still that was going too far to be able to advertise a cheap base price.
Now, OTOH, if they were to make a plentiful supply of base cars without options, I would be happy without P/S in such a small car. Just one more thing to be an expensive repair later in the car's life.
I do think a CD stereo should be standard - how much more expensive than an AM/FM stereo can that be? I notice that one of the Korean cheapies (is it the Accent or the Rio?) has a 172 watt CD stereo standard this year, but A/C is still optional. And that, in an $11K car.
I figure the Canadian Yaris CE is a little below the level of equipment Toyota wants to offer as a base car in the U.S. nowadays, given the high level of standard equipment in the Scions.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The price for the '06 Accent hasn't been announced yet, but it will have a 172 watt CD stereo, six airbags, and ABS standard. So you can play cool tunes, but may not be cool.
Its too bad that the Rio and Accent don't have factory optional cruise. That is an option I really need, but the aftermarket stuff seems to both not work as well and integrate as nicely. Of course I still wish both got better mpg on the highway with the manual transmissions, too.
The Rio doesn't have optional cruise but we'll have to see on the new Accent. I expect the lack of cruise is because these cars are intended to be used as around-town commuters where cruise would be superfluous. That works for me as I use cruise maybe once a year. I'd rather have features like a multi-adjustable driver's seat, ABS, and side curtains on the Yaris and its ilk than cruise.
STRIKING differences in side impact protection between cars with and without side air curtains, Toyota would be much better off making those standard (along with ABS) and leaving the power package as optional, IMO.
Maybe A/C should be optional in cars in this class, not only because it is a fairly expensive addition to the car but also because these little engines do feel the strain of the compressor. I do think in anything bigger than about a liter and half, A/C should be standard these days.
As for the Accent, what was the base price of the '05? I am sure the '06 will undercut the xA by at least $1000 for base price.
Toyota adds lots of little whoopdedoos to its cars that could be safely left out for a car in Yaris' class, like outside temp gauge, map lights, leather wheels and shifters, etc. It would be nice for the RS to come over with that stuff though. I wonder what the top of the price range is going to be? Maybe $18K for a fully loaded 5 door RS? That would be about right - below the bottom of the Prius range, and a couple thousand lower than a fully loaded Matrix.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for the Accent, what was the base price of the '05? I am sure the '06 will undercut the xA by at least $1000 for base price.
That will be pretty close, since the MSRP of a ''06 Rio with ABS is about $12.9k and the MSRP of a '06 xA with side bags/curtains is $13.9k. The Accent should be priced close to the Accent with similar equipment.
Personally I would never go for a Yaris for $18k. That's Civic/Mazda3 territory, or for thousands less a Rio5, Fit, or even Spectra5 or Elantra 5-door.
I see a lot of people wondering what will be standard and optional on the US Yaris. If you go to www.toyota.com/yaris, they have an annoying Flash configurator that gives some pretty clear indications of the trim levels and options for the 3-door hatch. No pricing, though.
Yeah, $18K sticker is high for this class of car, but I was thinking a 5-door RS might go for that if they made a few niceties (like moonroof, 6-disc changer, and cruise) options. Think of it: a properly light little car with a real handling package and some proper sport seats. Yeah, power would be low but most cars are so HEAVY these days. The new Civic SI will be about 2900 POUNDS! That's heavy, as heavy as the tC. Great handling comes from light weight. There was a time when Toyota and Honda knew that (remember the old Corolla FX-16 GTS, CRX SI? I am thinking of a new vehicle in the vein of that pair), but with 5 real doors. What fun it would be!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It would be fun, it's just that $18k is getting real close to "nicely used 3 Series" territory. I'd like to see Toyota offer a "sport" version of the Yaris 3-door, maybe for around $15k tops loaded, so I could relive the joy of my '85 Civic S, but with more power and even better handling.
It is probably due to the difference in gearing - the Corolla probably has "longer legs" than the Yaris. Be aware, however, that according to Consumer Reports, the real world figures and the "official figures" were much more flattering to the Corolla than to the Echo.
For the Corolla (Auto): 29/38 EPA, 20/39 CR, Overall CR: 29 For the Echo (Manual): 34/41EPA, 29/46 CR, Overall CR: 38
Nice to see that all models will get the tach in Canada. It appears that the CE and LE will be in that white light we see in many of the newer cars these days while the RS will have a sporty orange colour. ABS remains an RS standard but gets kicked off the LE and CE into an option. (Package B?). Oddly enough someone mentioned they ordered a copper orange metallic RS and I don't see that as a colour option. But hey look power steering is standard on the CE model now. Still no rear window wiper on the CE though. Anyone noticed that no one really bought the CE anyway? Only company fleet models were CE. It was either LE or RS.
The interior of the RS is very nice, makes me want to go for it. And gas consumption is up but come on at 6.9L/100km in the city, it still beats the pants out of the competition. (Saturn ION bragged that they can do an "awesome" 9.0L/100km in the city).
Just noticed on toyota.ca, the Canadian pricing information is delayed until October 11th. As of yesterday, it was indicating pricing would be available October 6th.
The second "red" is listed as Copper Orange Mica. Until today, it was in fact orange. Someone has been having fun with the Toyota site. BTW, all colours are available on all models. I was to go in tomorrow morning to do the rest of the paperwork for my silver 5-door RS, but now I'll have to wait until Tuesday. Oh, and rear wipers ARE available on the CE - as an option. There are several CEs in my town, but then we are notoriously cheap.
Looking at the Yaris versus the Echo versus the Corolla, I would guess the Yaris will have about a 33 city and 39/40 highway in the US for the manual transmission. That is solid, but I admit that I wanted Echo or better mileage. That is only slightly better than the Scion XA and pretty much even with the Corolla. Corolla gets slightly better on the highway, and the Yaris slightly better in the city.
33 city, 40 highway is pretty good gas mileage IMO. Do we have a better clue what's coming to the U.S. yet for the Echo/Yaris (OK, some are insisting that Toyota will call it Yaris in the U.S., like in Canada, fine!!)? I know we're getting a 3-door but are we getting a 4-door sedan or a 5-door hatchback to be revealed at an Auto Show near you in early 2006? Is the deal that we're supposed to just wait it out until the Auto Shows? The gas mileage is fine with me but I want details on models and door configurations and features included, etc. I'm interested in this car because of the great gas mileage and the look of the car...it outlooks the xA RS 1.0 and 2.0 IMHO. As to the 2007 Scion xA somebody showed a picture of the recently-released in Japan Toyota Ractis tall wagon. They're speculating that Scion may offer the Ractis tall wagon as the new 2007 Scion xA model. Go to the Scion xA thread here on Edmunds and go back a few posts and you'll see the picture of it. It's look grew on me-it's rear quarter panel looks a bit like the Yaris rear quarter panel-at least from the front-side of the car looking towards the back. Several interesting designs in small cars coming out of Toyota land lately-keeping me on my toes as I also look at Kia's '06 Sportage and '06 Rio/Rio5 and '06 Spectra SX and '06 Spectra5.
BTW, I would be very interested in the Copper Orange Mica color on a small new rig from Toyota/Scion. It would look cool on their new small car body designs IMO. :shades:
Comments
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
In the last few years, most buyers were not that concerned about gas mileage as they are now. The Echo also had goofy styling which was a big turn off.
If it were to cost around the same as a Corolla with side curtain airbags and only get a little better mpg, then it would be a hard sell.
You've described the Echo (with the exception of the side curtain airbags of course) to the tee, hence the dismal sales figures. The vast majority of people who buy sub-compacts don't do so based on the vehicle's looks. They buy them because they're economical to purchase and drive. I've never seen a sub-compact I would call good looking. It would end up being too impractical of a vehicle if looks were a major concern. Space needs to be maximized and looks suffer because of it. Take away the economical purchase price and half of the reason to buy a sub-compact in the first place is gone. I'm telling you, if Toyota ends up pricing the Yaris at more than $12K, they will end up sitting on dealer's lots collecting dust.
Keep the Yaris simple with the key objective of saving fuel. That 1.3L engine may do the job quite well . That would be an unlikely scenario since it will take more than high gas prices at $3 to terminate the performance/power addiction among most N. American car consumers(economical or premium luxury cars).
My view is that there are enough powerful vehicles in N. America( in fact we have quite a gas consuming power glut in terms of autos)---it is about time that we should have a wider choice of frugal gas miser cars that do not pretend to be boy racer vehicles.
If it was EPA estimated at over 35MPG in the city and over 45MPG highway with automatic, it would be a very attractive commuter car.
I think $2k under the xB or Corolla CE would be quite reasonable for the new Yaris, with comparable equipment. As has been pointed out, there isn't that much cost savings building a Yaris vs. a Corolla. And I'd rather pay a few bucks more for a quality small car with a nicer interior than the ECHO had, and full safety features, than get a stripped car like the old base ECHO. If I need to buy a car for $10k or less, I can always buy a year-old model.
My point is the Yaris is estimated to have fuel economy figures which are about the same as that of the Echo, which are not much higher than that of the Corolla. The current Corolla will do low to mid 30's city and low to mid 40's highway. People are not going to be willing to pay the same price, or close to the same price for a much smaller car that only get 3-5 MPG more than the Corolla.
backy
ALL dealers will work with you on price IF they want your business, even the ones that claim to have no haggle pricing. YOU may be willing to pay only $2K less than an xB or a Corolla for the Yaris, but I'm willing to bet MOST people won't be.
Anecdotally, people may get better or worse mileage, but I'm talking about EPA estimates. If you beat EPA estimates on the Corolla, you should also beat them on a Yaris, but the EPA numbers are the guide to compare cars.
So if the Yaris gets over 35 mpg city and over 45 mpg highway with automatic from the EPA, it will be enough to sway people when gas is expensive.
I'm sure it will also be priced lower than a Corolla.
I agree with this mostly. The upcoming Yaris, Fit, and Versa are all ugly to me (not that it will keep me from buying one). The Echo is very ugly, and so is the Scion XA.
But, the VW Polo is a nice looking car (we aren't worthy in the US)
and the upcoming Opel Astra diesel hybrid is very good looking.
Polo:
http://vw.co.uk/new_cars/polo/gallery
Astra:
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/100_news/astra_011005.html
http://www.autobytel.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_orde
Give or take a college grad rebate and/or a dealer incentive here or there, eh?
I think it looks much more attractive than the Scion xA and the old Echo, for example.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Having seen pictures of the Honda Fit and 2007 Toyota Yaris, they not THAT bad looking. I for am actually kind of interested in trading in my 1998 Honda Civic HX CVT coupé for a 2007 Honda Fit myself.
(By the way, I'm starting to hear rumors that VW might be interested in selling the Polo in the USA, provide they can keep the production costs down at their Mexican and Brazilian plants. VW doesn't want to be left behind when the B-segment cars suddenly become hot-selling commodities.)
You can get another good 8-10 years or more out of your Civic. I kept my 88 Accord DX coupe for over 13 years. It was flawless for the first 8 years, after which I spent about $1500 on updating the a/c, a new clutch, new tires, and a few other things. I then gave it to my brother-in-law and was carless for a few years. Now I am driving a "gift" 94 Maxima with 185K miles. I still miss my Accord and I wish I'd kept it, not that the Maxima is a bad car, but I hate its hugeness and inefficiency (although I do not do too bad with it--it is rated at 22/28 but I am getting more like 26/32 out of it with my light foot).
Motleyfool.com shows a maximum reward/minimal expenditure point with keeping a car for 15 years. I hope to keep the next one for that long.
At the moment I can get a new 2005 HX Civic for $13.4 or I can wait 6 months or so for the Fit, Yaris, and Versa, or I can wait another year for the Opel Astra or wait for VW to bring us a Polo TDI. I have kind of eliminated a Corolla CE (too boring) and a Golf TDI (far too expensive with the GLS premium).
All the Hybrids are way out of my price range.
Whatever I get, I plan on being stuck with it for at least a decade so I want to be sure that I make a good decision. I'll have much greater peace of mind with a Honda or Toyota.
The reason is simple: tailpipe emissions. Remember, diesel exhaust not only has the normal oxides of nitrogen, sulfur dioxide, and unburned hydrocarbons, but also diesel particulates that can be very damaging to lungs like second hand smoke from a cigarette. That's why the USA has very strict rules about diesel exhaust emissions from automobiles, hence the reason why won't see diesel cars on a large scale in the USA until the arrival of low-sulfur diesel next summer, which will allow the use of a new generation of diesel exhaust catalytic converters that also double as diesel particulate traps.
The very biggest problem with the Echo was one mentioned recently: put in the stuff everyone wants (which is now standard in every Scion: a decent CD stereo, A/C, PW/PL/PM) and it cost MORE than a similarly equipped, higher-powered Corolla. What the heck was that idiocy on Toyota's part?
Yes it also looked like a ridiculous egg, and everyone attributes its lousy sales to that, but I think price had more to do with it.
You just KNOW that Toyota is going to trade on its good name when it prices this thing - the fact that it is a Toyota, not a Scion, will probably mean that 5-door Yaris's will go for $1000 more on the sticker than similarly equipped xA's. Which should still put them under the Matrix, their best competition in the Toyota universe.
And I suppose that when the new Corolla arrives in 18 months, it will move up in price and equipment to allow the Yaris line to grow, which will mean Corollas begin to get pricey. Just look how pricey Civics get now, which is no accident - the Fit arrives in the spring. My bet is that 2006 is the only model year of the Civic DX, after which the least expensive Civic will be the LX at almost $17,000.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There are 4 trim levels: 3-door CE, 3-door RS, 5-door LE and 5-door RS.
All four have electric-assisted steering.
The 1.5 VVT-i engine is now rated ULEV 2 and produces 106 hp.
Two transmission choices: 5-speed manual and 4-speed "super ECT" automatic
ABS brakes with EBD are standard on the RS, optional on the CE and LE.
Fuel economy is down slightly by about 1 mpg for the auto and 2 mpg for the manual (combined city/highway).
Go to www.toyota.ca for more details
In Canada, we do get at least one more diesel: the Smart fortwo. It's not the cheapest for what you get (they start at $16.7K Canadian), but 60 MPG is an entirely achievable figure (I've seen people getting 70+ on the mbcanada.com forums) and it's of course going to be easy to park.
That said, I'd almost like a diesel Yaris more. Not as attention-getting, but darn it... it has back seats! I haven't heard when the Smart forfour will show up in Canada yet.
Yaris is pretty basic - I figure by the time you add in power windows and A/C (two items that will probably be installed options in EVERY SINGLE one sold here), the weight will be approaching 2425, 2450 lbs, something like that. Which is a fair amount for a 106 hp engine to be hauling around. Fast, it won't be. Probably slower, in fact, than the xA/xB. But ahhh, that great gas mileage! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Wind-down windows I could maybe see, but even then I will bet they are rare, while most cars will be equipped with a power package.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I noticed that the only differences between the canadian 3-door CE and 5-door LE (apart from the number of doors!) seems to be the presence of power mirrors, power locks and rear wiper as standard equipment on the LE contrary to the CE.
Now, OTOH, if they were to make a plentiful supply of base cars without options, I would be happy without P/S in such a small car. Just one more thing to be an expensive repair later in the car's life.
I do think a CD stereo should be standard - how much more expensive than an AM/FM stereo can that be? I notice that one of the Korean cheapies (is it the Accent or the Rio?) has a 172 watt CD stereo standard this year, but A/C is still optional. And that, in an $11K car.
I figure the Canadian Yaris CE is a little below the level of equipment Toyota wants to offer as a base car in the U.S. nowadays, given the high level of standard equipment in the Scions.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Maybe A/C should be optional in cars in this class, not only because it is a fairly expensive addition to the car but also because these little engines do feel the strain of the compressor. I do think in anything bigger than about a liter and half, A/C should be standard these days.
As for the Accent, what was the base price of the '05? I am sure the '06 will undercut the xA by at least $1000 for base price.
Toyota adds lots of little whoopdedoos to its cars that could be safely left out for a car in Yaris' class, like outside temp gauge, map lights, leather wheels and shifters, etc. It would be nice for the RS to come over with that stuff though. I wonder what the top of the price range is going to be? Maybe $18K for a fully loaded 5 door RS? That would be about right - below the bottom of the Prius range, and a couple thousand lower than a fully loaded Matrix.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That will be pretty close, since the MSRP of a ''06 Rio with ABS is about $12.9k and the MSRP of a '06 xA with side bags/curtains is $13.9k. The Accent should be priced close to the Accent with similar equipment.
Personally I would never go for a Yaris for $18k. That's Civic/Mazda3 territory, or for thousands less a Rio5, Fit, or even Spectra5 or Elantra 5-door.
-Andrew L
Anybody know what's up with that?
It would be a really bad move not to offer them in Canada. I hope that's not what they are doing...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What's up with that?
Canadian Corolla = 7.1/5.3 (40/53) - Manual
Yaris uses less fuel to go 100km 6.9l vs 7.1.
That just makes no sense. Unless I am reading it wrong.
For the Corolla (Auto): 29/38 EPA, 20/39 CR, Overall CR: 29
For the Echo (Manual): 34/41EPA, 29/46 CR, Overall CR: 38
Nice to see that all models will get the tach in Canada. It appears that the CE and LE will be in that white light we see in many of the newer cars these days while the RS will have a sporty orange colour. ABS remains an RS standard but gets kicked off the LE and CE into an option. (Package B?). Oddly enough someone mentioned they ordered a copper orange metallic RS and I don't see that as a colour option. But hey look power steering is standard on the CE model now.
The interior of the RS is very nice, makes me want to go for it. And gas consumption is up but come on at 6.9L/100km in the city, it still beats the pants out of the competition. (Saturn ION bragged that they can do an "awesome" 9.0L/100km in the city).
Guess we will have to wait a few more days....
Barney
BTW, I would be very interested in the Copper Orange Mica color on a small new rig from Toyota/Scion. It would look cool on their new small car body designs IMO. :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick