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Porsche 911



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I think habitat1 is right about your reasons for wanting to justify the Porsche.

    Now I had to go round and round with him to get the right Porsche, now it looks like I'm going to have to talk you into getting a Porsche? ;)

    Seriously though I wouldn't worry all that much about a Porsche's safety. Porsches are still basically engineer's cars and with Mercedes right across town I can't possibly see how they wouldn't be safe. The only thing is they're still low the ground and small cars (sports cars) so getting hit isn't going to be the same as getting hit in a E-Class Benz. That said, get the Porsche. I can bet you won't think about it anymore once you're driving it!

    I noticed you said you live in Chicago. Well I'm the west burbs and my car is a tin can compared to a Porsche. I'm sure you're already a good driver and like you noted your ability to avoid an accident will go up dramatically with a Porsche. You'll find yourself driving differently I think once you get used to a smaller/sportier car. You'll always pay close attention to where you are on the road in relation to other drivers and what they're driving. I hope I explained this right.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    911 seats 4? You might want to do what I did by taking your family for a "test fit". I'm 5'7", my wife is 5'1". With us in the front seats, there is reasonable legroom for our smallish 7 year old behind me and 10 year old behind my wife. The coupe has an inch or two advantage over the Cab, plus a seatback that is angled backward (as opposed to straight up and down) making it more comfortable. On the other hand, without the "fun" factor of riding in a convertible, my kids might rather be in our MDX where they can really stretch out. In any event, coupe or cab, 4 full size adults (or even two big adults and 2 kids) cannot fit in a 911.

    Also, the "4" version does not turn the 911 into an SUV. The ground clearance of our Cab S is 3.9 inches. The non-S, non-PASM version buys you another 1/2". The "4" will get you slightly better wet weather traction on the shoulder seasons, but it's not going to plow through snow or slush with the 30 series Z rated summer tires. And even snow tires and rims won't raise the ground clearance.

    Our 911 is a third car that will get used as frequently as possible, thanks to it's fun and ease to drive. However, I don't think it would qualify as a second car in a two car household for us. Even if I only had my old 1995 Maxima is a back up, I'd at least want something there for the worst of winter.

    Not to discourage you from the 911, but another car that I considered which might be a bit more versitile is the BMW M3. I do think that BMW's quality is better than Mercedes at the moment and the M3 6-speed is the most fun to drive of any coupe out there, IMO.

    merc1: I do say a private "thank you" to you every time I plop my kids in the back seat. And, now that the engine is broken in, every time I hit an open stretch of DC beltway by myself! ;)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    merc1: I do say a private "thank you" to you every time I plop my kids in the back seat. And, now that the engine is broken in, every time I hit an open stretch of DC beltway by myself!

    You are most welcome. That means my work here is almost done!!! :) :) :) Now we've got to get rcl5659 into a 911 too! He sounds like the perfect buyer for Porsche upcoming 4-door car...the Panamera.

  • I did find one site of possible interest:

    Check out the 911 here.
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    My read of your link is:

    It's safe when hit, but very expensive to repair.

    I hoped for the former, definitely expected the latter.

  • I've never purchased a Porsche before and am considering purchasing 2 next year - a Cayenne S for my wife (waiting for the 2007 model due out Spring 2006) and a C4 or C4S Coupe for myself.

    Doese Porsche do any discounting on its newer cars, or do I need to wait for the new body styles to have been on the market for a while? If so, how long? I live in CT and there are many dealers in this area as well as in NY and in NJ. Just didn't know if there is any room for negotiation.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    For what it's worth to anyone in this forum, I got close to $10k discount on my new 2005 Cab 2S in September. I had a 2006 on order for a $5k discount at the time, but elected to go with the 2005, given the price concession. It had several options I would not have ordered, bringing the MSRP up to $102,800. The 2006 on order had a MSRP of $101.5k +/-, including the base price increase. But, now that I have the $2,400 sport exhaust and $1,520 leather seats, they are nice "freebies".

    I don't think there are too many leftover 2005 997's still around that are brand new (i.e. not demo's), but if there are, you should be able to negotiate a healthy discount.

    I would expect the 2006 C4's and Cab 4's won't be discounted much until next summer.

    P.S. Speaking of discounts, what's the real story with the Cayenne? I checked the inventory of one local dealer, HBL in Tyson's Corner, and although they only have 3-4 2006 911's in stock, they have over 80 Cayennes, including over 25 2005 models. Other dealers I checked also have around 3 times the number of Cayennes as all other Boxters and 911's. I have to believe this does not bode well for Porsche financially. Who's going to buy all of those 4-seater gas guzzling SuV's in the current economy??
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 66,843
    Porsche sells more Cayennes than the Boxster and 911 combined.. While I have no insight into the health of the company, it would make sense for a dealer to have many more of them on the lot, than the other cars..

    Maybe not as many as your dealer has, though...

    Host-Prices Paid Forums


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    I can't imagine what kind of discount you will get when they're stuck with 80 Cayennes. I've also seen a lot of Cayennes in N. Cal Porsche dealers' lot. I guess it would be great for those who want one.
  • Aside from the 2% increase in sticker - is there any other significant difference between a 2005 and a 2006 997 coupe/cab/??
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    None that I am aware of. I do not recall a tire pressure monitoring system being available as an option on the 2005, but I may have just missed it. And the sticker went up closer to 2.8% ($2,500 in the case of the Cab S, from $88,900 to $91,400).
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The following appeared from a poster elsewhere in the ether. I would think 997 also gets the optional digital logbook:

    There are not many differences between 987 05 and 06 models, mainly a new "optional digital log book" that would record everywhere you go (creepy), and a tire pressure monitor using the ABS and stability control system.
  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Good news today, my P-car is officially "ON VESSEL"!
    I should have it (east coast) in 2 to 3 weeks!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Well, here's hoping for some nice weather in mid to late November in North Carolina to break in both the car and the cabriolet roof!!

    I have yet to see a 2006 C4 or Cab4, base or "S", in person. And Edmunds doesn't even have them listed on its 911 model list. So I have to believe yours will be one of the first to arrive in the States. Congratulations on that, but factor in a few extra minutes answering questions when you stop for gas. ;)

    Also, I noticed that the base wheels and tires on the Cab 4 are wider in the rear than the base Cab 2 (295 vs. 265 on 18" rims). That's good, since the wider body would look a little funny on the narrower tires. And a nice upgrade thrown in with the "4" package. I have to admit that if I were ordering a 2006 today, there is a better than 50/50 chance I'd end up with a Cab 4 S instead of Cab 2 S.

    Hang in there for the next few weeks. :)
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    That's great news, Don. Glad to hear it.

    Let's hope my C4 coupe is on the same vessel (though I've heard squat from my dealer so far).

  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Thanks habitat1 and bsumner. Salesperson said mine would be their first Cab 4 or 4S. I'm hoping for good weather too. With windstop, heated seats, and lots of sweaters at least the cold won't stop me but snow or ice will but we usually don't get any of that here in the mountains of western NC until January.
  • I have a dilemma:

    Can anyone give me any insight as to what they would do if they could get a 2002 Porsche Turbo at about $ 83k with 10k miles or spend $ 90k+ for a 2006 997 c4s....

    I've always believed that the most recent technology is the best way to go, but a 996 Turbo is still a great car...

    Is it worth the extra money to spend for a non-turbo 997 C4s???

  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    I typed in a nice long explanation and it got lost so here's a briefer one.
    997 is a much improved (inside & out) vehicle over the 996, so I hear from most everyone.
    I'm not sure I'd want to own a Porsche outside its 4 year warranty period.
    Could be very expensive if you have trouble. The previous owner of the Turbo may have thought the same.
    Plus, if you want almost Turbo speed, order the 997 C4S with the x51 option!
    Just my 2 cents, get what YOU want though.
  • bsumnerbsumner Posts: 39
    I totally agree with Don (and had a similar message loss)

    I would never buy a Porsche used (so long as I could afford a new one--and maybe even if I couldn't). There is too much risk around how it was broken in, why it is being sold, etc. Also, owners tend to drive them hard . . . which I don't view as a virtue. It's the same as buying a used M3, etc. The demographics of the drivers should make one's "caveat emptor" sensor light up.

    But aside from this general approach, I think the 997 is a much better looking machine than the 996. The 997 is a very logical evolution from the 993 . . . but I don't know what happened with the 996--too disjointed and Japanese-inspired.

    Finally, Don nailed it: warranty, warranty, warranty.

    If I were spending 80 large, I'd definitely want a new car. So many good cars at 60k+. Why settle for a used car?

    But, at the end of the day, do what makes you feel happy--that's the key.

    Just my $0.02.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I would agree with points made by Don and bsumner - as might be expected from someone who bought a new 997 himself.

    However, in the spirit of fairness, I happen to know someone who has a 2001 911 Turbo Coupe with 11,000 miles that he will be selling to get a 997 Turbo, when they are available. He is a longtime Porsche enthusiast - still owns a 356 - and takes exceptionally good care of his vehicles. Whoever gets his "used" 911, will be getting a heck of a deal.

    So, if YOU like the 996 style - and the Turbo does look a heck of a lot better than the non-Turbo models with their slim rear ends - then there are two factors that I would consider:

    1) Do you intend to keep the car for less than 4 years? If so, the depreciation hit on the 2002 Turbo, which is already being sold for roughly $40k less than it cost new, will likely be less than a brand new 997 C4 at/near list price. I have another friend who has purchased 3 slightly used 911's over the past 10 years and his total depreciation during this time has been considerably less than what some experience with a single brand new car. You just have to accept that someone else got the fun of breaking it in and sucking up the new car smell.

    2) Can you get an extended warranty at a reasonable price to protest you for another 3-4 years? A major uncovered repair could undermine the above ecconomics.

    Again, I think you've heard from us that have or are getting a 997 that we strongly prefer the 997 over the 996. But that's 50% objective and 50% subjective. You need to weigh the subjective factor based upon your preferences and priorities.

    P.S. Have you driven the cars back to back? If so, I'd be curious as your assessment of the difference.
  • tripftripf Posts: 8
    This is a question for anyone out there with 2006 or 2005 997S with Sport Exhaust option. I cannot find any literature on the Sport Exhaust in the manual. The yellow indicator light extinguishes when the system goes into sport exhaust mode. My system drops out of sport exhaust mode during moderate to heavy throttle (indicator light comes on and sound exhaust level drops significantly. I am trying to determine if this is as designed or if I have a problem. The dealer was not much help.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I have a 2005 997S with the sport exhaust and sport chrono options, in addition to the standard PASM.

    When I push the sport button, both the sport LED and PASM LED go on. And the sport exhaust, increased throttle reponse and sport suspension setting are activated. If I then push the PASM button, the suspension is returned to normal more, but the exhaust and throttle response remain activated (and the LED remains on).

    It sounds like your system indicator is operating backwards - with the sport exhaust on when the light is off??

    Also, I notice that under moderate throttle, the exhaust note gets somewhat quieter, but returns to "sport" sound during hard acceleration or cruising. But I've never had the LED light go on and off without me pushing the button, at least not that I have noticed.
  • tripftripf Posts: 8

    Thanks. I believe you have confirmed my problem. The dealer does not understand so I sent an inquiry to the tech desk at PCA. I will continue to push the dealer.

    What a ride!
  • I have a 997 that I picked up in May, I have loved every second I have been driving it.
    My sport exhaust does the exact same thing yours is doing.
    When I start up the car the light is on and the sport exhaust is off, when I push the button the light goes out and the sport mode is on and it is noticeably louder, at that point if I get on it, the light will bounce on and the car gets quieter while under
    moderate throttle, when I reduce the throttle to a "normal" level the sport mode
    is back on.
    let me know what you find out, I thought this was normal?????
  • tripftripf Posts: 8
    Thank you for the input. the dealer does believe that it is normal. Do you have sport Chrono? the difference could be the way the system operates with and without the Sport Chrono package. I do not have Sport Chrono.
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    I Have had my new 2006 C2S for about 5 weeks now, and have put a total of 224 miles on it. I am driving it only on days off . Man, what a car. I am 55 years old and have had 4 Porsches prior to this one, but it has been a long time..KIDS! and college!. I will keep this one until the eye sight prevents me from futher driving. I quess one of the kids will get it then. Carrera White with Sand Beige interior, was a little worried about the " blah " effect of white, but it turned out beautiful. I am a little bugged by all the looks I get, I'm no loner trolling for chicks and I guess I'm over it , but you really do not see many white 997s here is So. Cal. EVERYBODY has black and silver..I love it. Evedrybody enjoy yours also, what a BLAST!!

  • dweiserdweiser Posts: 288
    Hi chrmdome,
    I turned 60 August 25th and ordered my 06 C4 Cab the day after. I should have it this coming week or early the next.
    I've seen some pics of the white 997s, stunning!
    Funny you mentioned eyesight, I picked up my new driving (prescription) glasses this morning!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Congratulations :)

    But only 224 miles in 5 weeks?! I just turned 3,000 miles in 7 weeks. Since this is your 5th Porsche, I am sure you know the proper break-in procedure, but my sales manager and service manager both made me promise not to turn the motor on, unless I was going to drive at least 20-30 minutes (for the firwst 1,500 to 2,000 miles). It takes a long time for that 9+ quarts of Mobil 1 to get warmed up. I hope for your sake you get through the break-in period in less than a year at your current pace. It's even more fun then!

    By the way, since you plan on keeping this car for a long time, what do you think of an extended warranty? I have gotten different answers as to how much the "rear main seal leak" problem may affect the 997's. The extended warranty I have been offered is about $4,400 to go to 7/75, but at my current pace, I would likely need 7/100.
  • I live in New York and plan on driving my porsche except when the road has snow, ice and/or salt. That being the case, wouldn't I be better off buying the c2s and getting more car than the c4 since I don't plan on driving it during the winter months? I'm also getting mixed opinions on how the car handles on wet roads. Is the c2 okay on wet roads? Would it make sense for me to buy the c4 for better handling on wet roads? My salesperson said the adaptive sport seats are amazing. Are the regular sport seats sufficient? I was also debating on buying the c2 and upgrading the xenon lights and 19' wheels instead of getting the c2s which has as standard options the xenon, 19' wheels, pasm & red brakes. Any thoughts? Thanks so much for any input!! :confuse:
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    My 2 cents:

    I have a 2005 Cab S. If I were to do it over again, I'd look at, and test drive, the Cab 4 S. I have heard too many conflicting opinions regarding the AWD. It does add weight, but it also adds some level of additional traction on slippery surfaces. Some claim to like its dry pavement handling better, others don't. It appears to be a subjective $4,000-$5,000 question that I would not attempt to answer without seeing and test driving the car myself. I suggest you do the same.

    However, I do have a stonger opinion on your question of a C2S vs. C2 with xenons/19" wheels. The C2S or C2 with PASM offers a much firmer handling option than the base C2 w/o PASM. I notice a definite difference when turning on the sport mode. The car starts out 1/2" lower and the sport setting firms up the shocks and suspension to eliminate virtually all body roll. I seriously doubt 90% of drivers could tell the difference between 18" and 19" wheels by themselves in terms of handling. But almost anyone would immediately notice a significant difference when the PASM is switched from normal to sport.

    So, in hindsight I might want to revisit the "2" v. the "4". But I believe I made the right decision to go with the "S", given the standard PASM, Xenons, 19" wheels w/wider tires, sport steering wheel and larger brakes (don't really care about the caliper color). And the 30 extra horsepower and torque is noticable, especially if you go with the heavier "4", the Cabriolet, or both.

    If I were to order seats, I'd go with adaptive sport, although the all leather power seats that were on my stock car are very good and better than the 996's. Also, you can save $2,400 if you don't want to go with the sport exhaust, but I am a big fan of the $920 sport chrono. Test one out and feel the difference in throttle response at about 3,000 rpm when you switch it on.

    Good luck.
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