Audi Q7

vandy1997

racer, it is obvious that you appreciate the Cayenne, and you have that right. But it is not appropriate for you to claim that you can purchase the Cayenne with the same options as the Q7 for "almost the same price"! I looked into purchasing the Cayenne S myself (since the base model Cayenne has a smaller 3.6L V6 engine), and the starting price of $57,200 seemed excellent when compared to the Q7 with a 4.2L V8 engine. However, I ended up ordering a Q7. Why? Due to the fact that, with all of the options that I wanted, including navigation, panoramic sunroof, adaptive cruise control, adaptive air suspension, heated seats, bluetooth, etc., the Q7 ended up costing me about $68.2K. I configured the Cayenne S with the same options, and the cost came to $92.7K. The Cayenne S costs close to $25K more than the equivalent Q7. It is true that when comparing the base Cayenne S with the base Q7 4.2L Premium, the cost is comparable, but Porsche makes sure that you pay out the nose for add-ons. As an example, the "smooth leather" option that is offered by Porsche costs $3K. And if you compare the base Cayenne S and the base Q7 4.2L Premium, you will notice that the Q7 comes with many more features as standard features. In terms of service, my girlfriend has a 2002 A6 2.7T, and she has not had any problems with it. I do agree that the service department does not seem to be the best that it can be, as they do not always complete the maintenance services that are requested in a timely manner. If I had an unlimited amount of funds, I would purchase the Cayenne Turbo S - why stop with the "cheap" Cayenne S? However, with my limited funds, I believe that Audi gives me more bang for the buck with a fully-loaded Q7 than Porsche does with a similarly-configured Cayenne. Send $100K my way, and I will undoubtedly go for the Cayenne Turbo S!

racer_65

>>with all of the options that I wanted, including navigation, panoramic sunroof, adaptive cruise control, adaptive air suspension, heated seats, bluetooth, etc., the Q7 ended up costing me about $68.2K. I configured the Cayenne S with the same options, and the cost came to $92.7K.

Yes, you have to exercise some judgement when picking options for the Cayenne, but generally you can get majority of those options you listed for an MSRP in the low 70's. After negotiations, the difference wouldn't be that much compared to a Q7. For majority of the buyers, who do not need every option, the price difference is not that big. When you're driving a car, the most important equipment is not gadget XYZ, but the car itself - the engine, transmission, and brakes. These are not optional, and they are what make the car.

racer_65

>>Is any one having trouble with TOO much sun with panaoramic roof.

I just went to check it out. It looks like there is only a layer of net material under the glass, rather than the typical shade. Buyers definitely need to be aware of that, especially if they live in a hot weather area.

rbirns1

Isn't everywhere a hot weather area right now?

rbirns1

Luxury buyers do have a second car, but someone else is usually driving it (i.e. 2 working parents).

I also thought of the R-class. The reason it's a failure is that luxury buyers don't want something that looks like a minivan, even if it really is one. If they had styled the R-class less like a minivan or wagon (maybe a little taller with more ground clearance), they may have had success.

A $10 seal is just as likely to leak in a "seasoned" model as a brand new one.

I leased my A6 for 3 years, and turned it in with 29,000 miles. Nothing but a flat tire (blowout that I didn't even notice at first due to Quattro) and a jammed CD player (kids put a sticky CD in there, needed to clean the heads). I own the Passat (wife's car). Defective cabin filter seal leaked some water into glovebox. Fixed under warranty, but even if I had to pay, not a major job. I'm comfortable with the reliability of Audi products. Actually they have had fewer problems than my 2 Volvos.

quattroporte12

Why would you want a Cayenne S "in the low 70's" when you can get a used Cayenne Turbo for about the same price? IMO, a Cayenne S is nothing more than a big, heavy SUV with Porsche emblems on it, only the Cayenne Turbo and Turbo S deserve the Porsche name. If you are going to spend that kind of money on a SUV (Cayenne S) that's main selling point isn't power, why not get one with more things going for it. Like a...Q7, for example, with more room, luxury, and a third seat. Or maybe even a Range Rover, however, they are very poorly built. Still, IMO, the base Cayenne and Cayenne S are very overpriced for what you get.

racer_65

>>Why would you want a Cayenne S "in the low 70's" when you can get a used Cayenne Turbo for about the same price?

You can only get that with a 2004 model, which as I mentioned, has issues with it due to it being a nearly new model. Since this is the first year for the Q7, one will likely experience issues sas well. As years go by, the first year model tends to depreciate the most, because all subsequent years will have improvements over that first year.

Finally, the Cayenne Turbo is a totally different ball game. MSRP is usually over 110K on that vehicle. You can't compare a used car to a new year. If you wait long enough, you can get almost any car into your price range, even Rolls Royce, Aston Martin.

rjlaero

Yeah...go ahead and spend 60 grand for a SUV with no options. The base Cayenne with those standard wheels looks mighty ugly. You've got to spend nearly $4000 for 20 inch wheels on the Porsche. On the 4.2 Premium, they're only 900 bucks.

It's the navigation, technology packages with back-up cameras, bluetooth, and other high end features that people want to buy on these SUV's

The V8 cayenne is no lighweight. It's not terribly fast, either. Maybe .3/.4 tenths quicker to 60 mph than a Q7, and it doesn't have a 3rd row or nearly as much storage space. And you're not really going to impress anybody in a dragrace or at the track with a V8 Cayenne.

quattroporte12

Agree 100%. If you're looking at a Cayenne, and its not the Turbo or Turbo S, dont bother. IMO, Touareg is better looking, more luxurious, better offroad, and about 20 grand less. Unless you are completley hung-up on owning a "Porsche" SUV.

racer_65

The high end philosophy is that the customer should be able to "build" the car to the spec he desires. A lesser brand such as Honda will have everything come as a standard package, based on their market surveys of what the average consumer wants. That's why most Hondas are equipt about the same way, while one Porsche Cayenne can be quite different from the next. On the Porsche you can choose from several types of 18", 19" to 20" wheels, ranging from no extra cost to the $4000 rims you are talking about. Again it comes back to the philosophy: you can have anything you want depending on how much you'd like to spend.

Regarding the comment that the car is not fast enough, well again, Porsche offers you a choice. If you want super fast and you got $110K to spend, then that's available to you.

Keep in mind a car is not all about speed. It's about every facet of the design (if you just want speed, get the Jeep Cherokee SRT8). Whether it's the Q7, Cayenne, or Touareg, the car borrows many components and design elements from the manufacturer's other existing models. For example, the dash layout in the Cayenne is borrowed from the 911. This is where the Porsche outshines the other two. The design, look and feel, and the mechanical components are superior, and with higher build quality. Don't take my word for it; JD Powers ranked Porsche as the highest quality brand in its 2006 survey, and the survey gives significant weight to the design aspects.

When you spend this kind of money on a vehicle, it's more about making a smart decision than getting hung up on anything.

tomtomtom

I think the new 997 borrow the dash layout from the Cayenne not the other way around.

Anyway, I too was interested in the Q7 to replace the minivan that I have. I am wondering if I really need a SUV since my kids are now 5 and 2 and my wife already have a RX330. I think I would just wait and see if Audi can fix all the first year bugs. By the way, I like Porsche but not the Cayenne.

quattroporte12

>>"For example, the dash layout in the Cayenne is borrowed from the 911. This is where the Porsche outshines the other two. The design, look and feel, and the mechanical components are superior, and with higher build quality." Audi is KNOWN for their interiors, having the best fit and finish in the business. And the reason Porsche won the JD Power survey was because of the Cayman, which is a fantastic car and a true Porsche. In terms of interoir quality, the Audi comes out ahead of the Cayenne.

racer_65

>>Audi is KNOWN for their interiors, having the best fit and finish in the business.>In terms of interoir quality, the Audi comes out ahead of the Cayenne.

What's so special about Audi interiors? The Porsche interior is at least quite sporty and interesting. There's a theme there. Audi interiors are similar to Lexus interiors in terms of creative content, and probably a notch below Lexus in quality.

>>And the reason Porsche won the JD Power survey was because of the Cayman, which is a fantastic car and a true Porsche.<<

Note that Porsche beat out Lexus in quality. They didn't achieve the #1 spot in that competitive survey by having just one good model.

audifan3

Happy day. Audi have agreed that a new Q7 is the solution to our problems. They are presently searching the US to find one with adaptive air, panaorama roof, and tech.

Now for the most important lesson...

A lot of thanks goes to my service manager at my dealership, who has been with Audi/VW for 22 years and knew who to lean on to get this resolved. My faith in Audi, though momentarily shaken, has been restored.

****

Make sure you get all the options you want from the factory because you WILL NOT be able to add them at the dealer. Not NAV, not Sirius, not anything except floormats and roofracks. cars are pre-loomed for the options and don't be decevied by thinking that when you press the NAV or INFO or TEL button and it says "... is not installed, please contact your Audi Dealer." When the A6 and A8's first came out, they had the same issues. For example, you cannot add NAV to a 2004 A6, but you can to an A6. I guess Audi use the first couple of years of a model year in order to come up with 1 wiring loom. Sucks, but be warned. Order what you want in advance and make sure you TRY advance key and adaptive air suspension before you buy one without!!!

***

vandy1997

racer, I think that, deep down inside, you are having second thoughts about your decision to purchase the Porsche, and you are justifying your subpar decision by putting down all aspects of the Q7. ) Just say to yourself, I was ripped off, but at least I am driving a "Porsche", and it makes me feel great inside. You did admit in your first post that the Q7 is a "nice ride", so I do not understand all of the critique. Have a little balance, man! Overall, I am positive that the Cayenne S is overpriced (if one chooses the typical options that one would choose in a luxury vehicle). Who drives a luxury vehicle with no nav and itty bitty rims? - Come on, now. Please note that I am not making a comparison to the Cayenne Turbo models. The Q7 is a better value when compared to the Cayenne S - period. I also test drove a Cayenne, and I did not find the interior to be remarkable, and when I look at the front of the vehicle, I feel like I am looking at a frog with its mouth wide open. It is unique, but it is far from aesthetically pleasing. And what about the "theme" of the Cayenne's interior? What is the theme called - "Elegant Boredom"? What the heck are the two handles that are placed on each side of the console for? So that you can hold on when you feel the less-than-exhilarating pickup? In my opinion, the Cayenne S did not have an amazing pickup, and I did not feel like I was in a "Porsche". That is, the quality of the ride and the standard features were not what I would expect in a car of Porsche's caliber. And in terms of JD Power, maybe Audi will rise to first place when the Q7 is out for a while. Audi does need to produce a few turbo models, however. And you admit that even the great Porsche made crappy Cayennes during the first couple of years. Being that this is the first year that the Q7 is being introduced, the build in terms of interior and exterior design does not seem that horrendous. As realists, we know that this vehicle may have some issues that could be refined. But, at first blush, it is not so shabby. And I know that the quality of the interior is just as good as that of Lexus. I have owned Lexus vehicles in the past, and the quality of the Q7's interior is not inferior to that of any Lexus - let's come back from Fantasy Island, shall we? Some of the comments that you are making are subjective and unsubstantiated. Yes, you can have your preferences, but please don't quote them as if they are generally accepted. As I stated before, I am looking at bang for the buck. If I had unlimited funds, I would purchase the Cayenne Turbo S - or the Bentley SUV, if it ever comes out! In that league, both the Q7 and the Cayenne S are left in the dust.

racer_65

No need to get frustrated! It's not like you designed the Q7 and I am critiquing it. The basis of my comments is all about value. Why would you pay almost as much for an Audi when you can get a Porsche by stretching a little more? Why would you even bring up the Cayenne Turbo S? It costs twice as much as a base Cayenne S. Both vehicles have exactly the same body, same interior, even the same engine. You're advocating paying twice as much to get a turbo charger? Where is the "bang for the buck"?

xy46

Glad to hear they came through for you. I was starting to find myself quite disappointed in AoA as well. My faith is renewed - thanks for sharing your experience. It was very valuable.

vandy1997

racer, I am just busting your chops. Just send me the $100K so that I can get the Turbo S. I would not pay twice as much for the Turbo S, unless if I came across an inheritance of about $50 million. Then I would definitely do it!! My Q7 S Line is on order, but I will have to wait until the end of November before I receive it. I hope that it is all that I expect it to be!! Best of luck with your Cayenne!! What are the interior/exterior colors? I almost forgot, did you notice that Porsche is now offering a Cayenne S "Titanium Edition" with titanium finish throughout AND with the Cayenne's most popular options (bi-xenon headlights, Porsche Communication Management (PCM) with DVD/GPS based navigation, and an electric tilting/sliding glass moonroof) as standard equipment, and at a price point 10% lower than adding these options to a base Cayenne S? Starting price is $64,900, so that may not be as bad a deal!

quattroporte12

Does anyone have any info or thoughts on the Six Seat Configuration. Has anyone seen it in person?? Debating whether to add it on to the car, since it is a no cost option... :confuse:

bhurlburt

Just put a deposit on an "already through production" Premium. The Premiums now come with the Six Seater as standard. The Seven Seater is a no-cost option. (According to Audi's Website.)

Truth be told, since I will rarely, if ever, need more than seating for four, the additional comfort of the sport bucket seats is exactly what I was looking for.

reality2

Audi interior quality an notch below Lexus? I don't think so. Every expert has put the Audi interior as the benchmark in the industry. Lexus has that typical soft, ugly Japanese interior found in Hyundais and every other Asian car from a Kia to a Lexus. Nothing quality about it! Little bit too much ant-Audi bias on your part, and less factual commentary. The Q7 will win SUV of the year easily. Its quality needs no discussion.

holycoupe

I am becoming interested in V6 model which launches this fall. What do you people think about this model?

quattroporte12

Does anyone have a dealer near them that has a V6 in yet? I was told they would be in in August. Has anyone driven the engine yet, in the Q7 or in the Touareg?? I am definetley going to order one, i would just like to drive one first. Also, i am very interested with the gas milage on the 3.6 liter. I have heard things from 2mpg better than the v8 to 4mpg better. If anyone has any info about V6 inventory or EPA numbers, that would be great.

blazer79df

Had my 4.2 Q7 for 1 week. Every option except cruise and adaptive suspension. This is by far the best vehicle I have owned. Traded an 2004 MDX , which was a very nice vehicle also, but the Q7 is in a higher class than the MDX. From the dealer experience to having one of the few on the road, I feel I made a great choice!

dhamilton

chime in on the interior conversation. First off, everyone is entitled to their opinion about what looks good. I follow that by saying, I don't think I've ever read a review discussing Audi interiors and it hasn't been proclaimed as the "bench mark". Audi's are loved, and hated, but by people that sit, and drive, and review automobile's for a living, Audi interiors are the benchmark. Period.

rjlaero

The preliminary EPA numbers on the V6 cars are 16/20.

quattroporte12

Are these just guesses from Audi, or your dealer, or are these the actual numbers. And, do you know if there are any 3.6 press cars in the US currently, or are thw first not in the US yet?

ivan_99

The current 3.2 V6 in the Touareg is rated at 16/21.

I believe that the 3.6 is slightly more fuel efficient than the 3.2 so the Q7 will probably be somewhere around there.

rjlaero

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

quattroporte12

I did not think they were out yet...thanks for the info. I was expecting it to be a little better, so, i might go with the v8 for the extra 3,500. Those are the official EPA numbers right...?

rjlaero

Those are offical EPA numbers. The 1st shipment of 3.6's should be on the lot in a matter of days.

You have to be careful about options on the V6 Q7's, though. If you load it up with all the goodies with nav, technology, 20's, 3rd row, you can push the price to 58/59 grand.

You might as well buy the 4.2 premium at 59.9 and get the extra horsepower of the V8.

quattroporte12

That is very true. The only 2 reasons i was leaning towards a v6 was fuel economy and price. The fuel economy is hardly better, and, as you said, the price is very comprible when equipped the same way, mabie about a 2,000 dollar difference. Plus you can get navigation on the v8 without having to pay 3 grand for an "infotainment package".

quattroporte12

how does everybody think the new x5 compares to the Q7. it is pretty good looking, on the outside, (weird dash, looks like a minivan, and joystick gear shitfer... :confuse: ). It has a third row, but it looks a LOT smaller. just wanted to see how people thought it compared...

fatcat71

Has anyone been able to buy a Q under MSRP? It seems that everyone here (Southwest CT) is paying MSRP. Prehaps waiting 6 mo or so?? Any suggestions. :shades:

fatcat71

The x5 is smaller, about 20 inches shorter and 4 inches on the width. To get the X5 loaded up like a 4.2 premium it will be well over 70K IMHO

fatcat71

I read on earlier posts that audi has/is designing a hybrid for the Q7. Anyone know anything about this? I called the dealship here and they know nothing about it.

rjlaero

No hybrid anytime soon for the Q7.

There will be a diesel option in 2008 for the US from what I here.

quattroporte12

the NEW x5 is only 10 inches shorter and has a third row. You are probably right about the price though. Plus, i dont think its that good looking...

quattroporte12

Went to an Audi dealer today that has a 3.6 in stock. The EPA numbers on the sticker were 17/22, or at least that is what the salesman told me, not 16/20. That is more around what i was expecting it to be, and i think the fuel economy makes it worth losing a few horsepower and torque.

quattroporte12

JD Power just came out with their dependability ratings for 2006 and Audi was pretty low on the list. This is very confusing to me since i have heard great things from audi owners about their car's reliability. BMW was much higher on the list, which makes me wonder if i should go through with ordering the Q7, or wait for the new, bigger, X5 (pics on bmw's website, www.bmwusa.com ). Any thoughts...??

stever

Here's a story about the ratings:

Lexus, Mercury and Buick Finish 1-2-3 in JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study (The Driving Woman)

rbirns1

Don't worry about the latest ratings. These are averages of those who respond to the survey of owners of 3 year old cars. Keep in mind that those owners who have experienced problems are much more likely to answer the surveys than those who have no problems.

Personally, my most recent cars have been Volvo, VW, and Audi, all "well below average" reliability on that list. I have had no problems worth mentioning. Yet I know plenty of Jaguar, BMW, and Infiniti owners (above average) who have problems. Any car can be "unlucky", but treat your cars well and they will generally stay healthy.

If you want an Audi or any other "below average" car, don't let these ratings scare you away.

rbirns1

What dealer had the 3.6?

quattroporte12

Thanks for the advice on JD Power ratings. I definetly agree that people would not want to go to the trouble of reporting their car it it was working well. Plus, the Audi's on that list were 2003's and down. Audi really stepped up their quality and reliability on all of their new models (the "big grill" Audis). I am not very worried. The 3.6 was in at a dealership in Annapolis, Maryland. However, they had not unwrapped it enough to drive, but it was there.

fatcat71

I agree. I have owned an audi a4 2.0t for a year now and my only complaint other than I wish I would have bought the car sooner was the dome lightbulb went out, which by the way was fixed by audi during the routine 5k service without me telling them about it. I also own a Volvo XC90, which I bought in 03 but it was a lemon and Volvo game me a new 05 XC90 in Nov 04. The radio always had static. The moral of the story= Any car has the potential to be a lemon, but if it is you get a newer car for the same price!!!! I figure I'll make an easy 5-10k on the trade next year when I buy the Q7!!!!!!

racer_65

Historically Audi has always had its share of quality problems. Repairs are very expensive, and the dealer network isn't that great. The JD Powers rating doesn't lie--at least it's not off by much. Don't fool yourself into thinking that "this year Audi has improved its quality".

borno

Currently have 00 A6 2.7t and 01 M3cic, looking to consolidate into either 05 cayenne s, or new Q7 4.2, like the Q&, but am afraid of first model problems and getting killed with depreciation. Cayenne would be good except prices still high, and maintenance is expensive. I know it's apples and oranges but I usually buy used and keep my cars at least 5 years, any thoughts, ideas are appreciated.

racer_65

I have a '06 Cayenne S, and love it. I think with an '05 you would have an almost new vehicle with the initial depreciation taken, and few bugs if any. Maintenance should be fairly infrequent, since oil change interval for this car is 20K miles.

audifan3

Audi have ordered my new Q7 from the factory and lead time is 3-5 months. If anyone reading this knows where I can find a Q7 4.2 with:
Navigation
Tech package
4-Zone climate
Panoramic Roof
19" 7-spoke wheels
Adaptive Air Suspension
Cold package

Ideally in Quartz Gray/Limestone leather.

Color not that particular. Audi have searched the Northeast to no avail, and closest they came was a Bahia Beige without Adaptive Air. I didn't know you could order the Bahia Beige, but apparently you can.

If you know where a Q7 like the above is available, please let me know and I will direct Audi to it.

Thanks for your help.

stever

You could try the dealer quote service on the main edmunds.com page and put in zip codes for different regions of the country.