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Comments
Sly
Thanks for the info. I'll have to wait till tonight to check out the photos, as I'm blocked at work (-:. From what everyone is saying, it "sounds" pretty good.
And I will add the "Thank You" for setting up the Edmunds VIP access. Is that just for Detroit, or can we use the "in" at all the shows?
Mark
Definitely something to catch your attention! With that nose, do you need the NAV?
Mark
Bigger and torquier engine (Turbo Diesel would be nice), hill climb & descent assist (or a low-range) 4-5000lbs towing capacity, protection plates front and back, roof rails, 5 seats only but with a ruggedised cargo area and lots of tie-down points. Might want to put a picnic table in the cargo floor too like in the CRV.
Adjustable ride-height would be nice too, but I wouldn't want to increase the weight or price too much...
Now, that would give me reason to upgrade.
The interior looks truly awesome.
A couple observations:
The foot wells in the front look rather cramped. How did they actually feel?
That spare tire under the car is a bummer! If you ever have to change a tire on the side of the road in bad weather, you will be swearing at the Subaru gods to no end. Also, after a few years of driving on salty roads, the spare tire becomes impossible to extract. Good thing we have road-side assistance!
Sly
Craig
John
Whoa whoa whoa. I'm not the one saying SIA is running close to 100% capacity. You are - you prove it.
The leather lined Ltd models with a fair amount of accesories are the meat and potatoes, not the base cloth models.
Again your presumption. What I see on local dealer lots in Boston are XT and cloth models - very few LTDs and higher hence I presume that's the reality.
And then we have the official quote that 25% of 05 Legacy/Outback sales are the turbo models, which get into the same price range as the VDC and Bean.
XT's start at about $28.6. Beans are almost $32.9 (15% more) and VDC are over $34 (19% more). For msot people, 15% and 18% hihger prices are significant - not the same price range. I would venture a guess that XT's far outsell Beans and VDC's. And that still leaves 75% of sales as non turbos.
There is plenty of differentiation between the Tribeca and the VDC. More room, two more seating positions, more flexible seating, completely different styling, different options like Nav and DVD....
Feature for feature, there is very little extra being offered in a $34 Tribeca than in the $34K VDC other than styling. Size ok - it's bigger. More seating - that better be offered in an SUV today. NAV/DVD availability - they aren't on a 34K Tribeca so they don't count.
BTW, look at the specs -- while the VDC is the top dog in the Outback lineup it's equipped the same as the "base" 7 seat Tribeca. Both are $34k (if you believe the info we have thus far on the Tribeca).
Again, why should Subaru offer a bigger vehicle that really only looks different from it's top dog? Further, as a consumer I'd rather have a top model of one instead of the base model of another for the same money if everything else were equal.
Finally, the Tribeca doesn't have to be a grand slam. If it keeps more customers in a Subaru by offering them the larger vehicle they have been looking for, it will be successful.
So they're going to have to work really hard to bring new customers in to buy Outbacks since current Outback buyers will automatically move up.
We each have our opinions on this. I'm not saying that the Tribeca will fall flat on it's face but you are presuming it's going to be a home run based on your anecdotal evidence. Subaru has a lot of work to do to move itself into the premuim segment - this model may be a start but it will have to be followed up more vehicles. But will people follow it into the premium segment - I don't know.
Also, IMHO the $34K Tribeca is going to be a 5 seater with no NAV or DVD availablity.
I'm agreeing to disagree. I hope you do to.
So Panasonic makes the USDM Legacy/OB radio and not Kenwood?
Do you know if there's any semi-easy way to get an AUX-in on these head units?
This is O/T here so if you could respond in the 05 Legacy OB thread, that would be great.
Ken
So how did it "feel" sitting inside?
Ken
Every VW I have had or been associated with (wife, room mate, in law) was very unreliable to say the least (thats a golf twice, scirocco, passat and there was some wagon thing I learned to drive in almost 40 years ago which drove my dad nuts - but not as nutty as his prized Jag which was a true garage queen , try live in hawaii and drive something which never starts when the ambient temp is above 80deg!
I have a small Winne now which is built of a Eurovan but I've only had that 18 months but its already had one major engine recall and its starting to lose coolant to somewhere already and the CEL is always flashing for reasons the dealer can't figure out. Not real comforting to be in a 22 foot long, 7.5K lb vehicle you have just pulled off the road in Chicago tollway traffic in the snow when red lights start flashing on the dash! Its a recipe to die early.
I did have one 80 Euro spec 318 which was great, because there was nothing fancy in it to go wrong! No electrical anything except the radio! When I took a 325 back to the States I had a new ECU almost every year, till I was dumb enough to get the GT Coupe and go Audi!
MB hasn' t been great from what I can see, my uncles late 90s E320 is a garage queen and my bros new E500 has this habit of not having any electrical activity. My senior partners S class has electrical gremlins too. But no doubt those cars sure are fun when they work! My dad went to Jags from MB in the 60s after the driveshaft fell of his MB! At least with the Jag, it either started and worked or didn't! Though my aunt had some ancient MB diesel which I learned stickshift on which lasted forever but again there was nothing electrical in it! No Euro brand sold in N America has ever had great reliability ratings by anyone and my experience just confirms that.
You're also right about Acura, my 86 Integra (2nd one sold in minneapolis!) was bulletproof till about 60K and then it self destructed! Those DOHC engines are made of aluminum foil, not cast Al! Yet every Honda my family has had before or since that has been the proverbial went to 150K with no problems, except for the new Odys!!
The problem with all those vehicles is that they left me stranded , even my 79 Opel Kadett never left me stranded or the 15 year old 2CV I had before that when I was in europe! And its not a case of just one car of one brand, I may be just darn unlucky or unluckier than most but this bad experience seems pervasive.
My Subes, on my 4 th now, have never left me stranded or with exorbitant repair costs and things may have needed replacing but never unscheduled (except for that lousy air suspension on the 92 Legacy LS).
I got 5 vehicles in my household to run and I can't afford the time to baby them constantly as the wife and in laws are clueless about cars and have better things to do, like look after my rugrats. And as I need AWD cuz I'm dumb enough to still live in the snowbelt and I don't believe in SUVs, from a personal viewpoint, Subaru has provided near optimal transportation for me for 12 years now!
And having 2 Detroit minivans in the household presently, I can tell you the B9 if its even got half the reliability of other Subarus will do well when stacked against the likes of the Rendezvous etc.
I can't verify that SIA is running at 100% for Legacy/Outback other than to say that 100% is the norm and we have not seen any indications (layoffs, shift changes, etc) to the contrary. If you are disputing the "norm" it will be up to you to prove otherwise. On a related note, I also can't prove the sky is blue.
The bias of sales towards the Ltd models also extends to the XT/GT turbo line. Of the XT and GT models sold, the majority are Ltd models with 5EAT. So equipped, an Outback XT-Ltd and the LL Bean have sticker prices within a couple hundred bucks of each other.
If you can't see the huge differences between the Legacy/Outback and the Tribeca, there's not much I can do to convince you. In my opinion, it's a notable difference. In fact it is analagous to what Honda and Toyota do with their lineups. Take Toyota for example -- the Camry (sedan) is the base paltform for the Highlander (suv) and Sienna (minivan). This is exactly what Subaru is doing by expanding the Legacy (sedan/wagon) platform with the Tribeca (crossover). It's just one more variation on their existing model line.
I don't think I ever said the Tribeca will be a home run, but the specs, rumored prices, and the known hole in Subaru's lineup mean it will do well.
Craig
We have an OB & an MPV, her broher has MDX. We figured subaru has far superior ride quality, safety & value compared to other brands.
In fact, we are talking about when we should buy the Tribeca (fully loaded) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AWD Sienna is pricey?
Let us wait until we hear the pricing of the B9. It may turn out that the AWD Sienna can be considered a bargain when compared to the B9!!
At this point we cannot call any vehicle pricey compared to the B9 until we know the pricing of theB9!
Talk about gas consumption! If the pricing is between 34k-40k for non-turbo, just imagine what a turbo would cost? Does this mean Subaru will be competing on price with a Porsche Cayenne?
The Sales Rep said they can't get enough XT, even showed me the incoming shipment with 1 VDC sedan and 2 2.5i. Should Subaru change their production schedule to meet demands?
Now after seeing the pics from Juice, I might put on hold my XT purchase, anybody knows if they will show it at the Chicago Auto Show?
XT or B9, you got me thinking again, Subaru.
Pete
Drown in the sea of SUVs
IF they bring in a turbo model and have it at 280HP/270TQ, this will have a potential sales impact. Even if they boost up the HP to 270 or 275 for the H6. I think this will be a profitable advantage alternative.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2132273475&- ;idx=1
juice, how big is the moonroof compared to OB's ?
No telescoping wheel or adjustable pedals makes it hard on shorter/taller drivers.
donut spare not good for off road use. Maybe full spare an option?
I couldn't read- whats the max load rating?
The cargo area is small, especially with the raked rear window, a la RX330. Definitely not enough room for a group of 6 or 7 and all their gear. Seems like a nice alternative for a small family of 4 or 5, but then so is the OB.
The nav screens look similar to the Lexus/Toyota- maybe a similar source? I've used the Lexus nav quite a bit, very nice and easy to use.
OK, I'll admit it doesn't look as bad as I first thought. And the interior looks like a step up from my LGT ltd, which is a big improvement from Subaru. With that engine, though, a lot of minivans are going to have you for lunch! ;-)
I feel it's 9/10ths there. Just a little more power (ok, a lot), a few more amenities (memory seats, tele wheel or pedals, power rear hatch, ipod ready) and a full spare and I'll think about buying one.
Until then, an OB XT or VDC is all I need/want from Subaru.
tom
I also wonder however, if the Consumer Reports review had anything to do with this... the OB 2.5i was a dog in their testing, and they stated the preference for the turbo.
I think more than anything, your experience points to the desirability of the XT, and the value that people see in its portfolio of strengths vs. cost.
Good luck! And I hope SoA is as successful with this SUV as with the OBXTs.
~alpha
I am registered with Imagestation and I can open my own albums but not yours.
Cheers Pat.
Oh so you were referring to a 4 cylinder turbo vs. 6 cylineder? I am not a mechanic, but if it was a 4 cylinder engine powering a heavy SUV---would that not affect the wear and tear of the engine?
Yesterday the show opened at noon and closed at 9 pm. Juice and I crawled all over the Tribeca from noon to 2:30. We didn't leave the show until 8:30, a half hour before it closed! Before the show I spent about an hour in the fitness center at the Marriott at the Ren Center, so I was one tired puppy last night when I got back to my room!
As you all might have guessed, juice brought his laptop, and did the posting. I did one post, but am not used to his computer, so I let him do the talking for the both of us. The photos he posted, also include mine, I'm not sure how he's got them grouped, as I really haven't seen them yet, or at least not very well. He was up till around 1:00 am last night uploading those images!
A few quick points:
• Styling is very subjective, but I love what Subaru has done. As with all Subarus, it's a love it or hate it look. I think the car looks great in person. I also really feel those critics here, once they see it in person will have a change of heart. Maybe not all of a sudden, but over time, I believe most here will come to admire this new look. Granted, there will be some who will never like it, but you can't please everyone.
• I love that mahogany brown paint. Juice is not so wild about that color, but I love it.
• As juice had mentioned, we met Dave Sullivan who is the Brand Manager for the Tribeca (another "Dave" of course!). This is his baby, and he is one proud papa, for sure. We spent about a good hour and a half , if not more talking with Dave about the Tribeca. He is very interested in our comments here at Edmunds—and he follows our posts here very closely! In fact, he said he spends about the first hour of each work day checking the various web sites to see what people are saying. At the very beginning of our conversation he said: "You're rsholland, aren't you?" That blew me away, and I knew from that moment on, SOA has a good man at the helm of the the "Good ship Tribeca."
There is so much I could talk about, but I'm not sure where to begin. I guess I'll just post as thoughts and ideas present themselves.
Bob
when I was about to enter the market for a car in the summer of 2000, as a Subaru Outback went around us ... the b/f (now husband)said .. what about one of those? ... I distinctly remember sort of making a dismissive scoff and saying, "THAT???? I don't THINK so!" ... and .. um .. what did I end up with that I love and now think is a beautiful little wagon?????
sooooo perhaps the Tribeca will be the same ???
One of the issues I'm concerned about, is the Tribaca's shift away from the outdoorsy image of the Forester and Outback.
What if...
Subaru offered a another spin-off called the B9 Telluride? As a companion model, but aimed at those who want a bigger Outback and/or Forester, and not a X5/Murano-like city-slicker like the Tribeca?
With standard roof rack, dual-range tranny (more for for pulling boats up steep launch ramps—rather than serious off-roading), full-size spare, tires with a bit more aggressive tread pattern, 5K towing, and so forth?
Bob
-Brian
Bob
(I love my 230k mi. '91 Legacy sedan, but the wind noise does get tiring over 65mph. Hopefully our '04 Outback's doorframe seals fare better with age... IF it's not replaced by a Tribeca.)
Tribeca seems perfect size-wise. My wife & I have 1 kid (thus, 1 car seat), but any time we want to go somewhere (such as driving to a trailhead) with another couple, our Outback's back seat is just too small for two adults and a car seat to be comfortable. Hopefully Tribeca will have enough space for at least a minimal amount of gear behind the 3rd row.
I'd love to see a photo of the second row tilted forward and slid all the way forward. Also, do either of the rows recline?
The middle row seat slides about 8 inches, fore and aft. The Pilot, by comparison, only slides about 4 inches. With the middle row seat slid forward, the 3rd-row seat is tolerable (for me). I wouldn't want to go on vacation sitting back there, but in a pinch, for an average sized male, it's okay.
I don't remember if the 3rd-row seat backs recline, but the middle row seats do.
Bob
Tribeca has potential to be a fantastic "trip car", but without a roof rack, it just may not have enough space for more than four people to take a trip in one vehicle. (No, no, no... I didn't word that well - the roof rack's for the gear, NOT the people! Although...)
Bob
Also, one general comment on the spare mounted beneath: You may curse Subaru while you're trying to remove a rusty nut in the rain to release that spare, but you'd be calling them even worse names if you had to move all of your vacation luggage (or your newly purchased TV, etc) out into that rain just to reach the spare if it were in the cargo area.
2025 BMW i5 - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Base 5-passenger and 7-pasenger models will have cloth standard.
Bob
So no, I don't like that it is exposed, but I see the engineering requirement that lead to its placement there.
Steve
• auto up/down power window switches
• 6EAT or CVT
• Larger base H-6 with better low-end torque, for when the vehicle is loaded and/or towing
• Heated steering wheel like found on BMWs
• Outdoorsy package or trim line (LL Bean or Telluride) with standard roof rack, full-size spare, height-adjustable suspension, 5K towing, dual-range tranny (mainly for helping with boat launches/retrieval and moderate off-roading) and an integrated electronic brake controller similar to that found on '05 Ford Super-Duty pickups.
Items not of particular interest to me, but I know others want these features:
• Memory seats
• HIDs (high and low beam)
• Telescopic steering wheel
• Power adjustable pedals
All these items were discussed with Dave, and many he was already aware of, from having reading our posts.
The question is: How much are customers willing to pay for those items? Yes, Subaru could offer all these features, but would customers be willing to pay possibly another $10K to get all these features? Probably not, at least not now. Subaru has to get people used to Subaru as being thought of as a premium brand. So, over time, and gradually these features could be offered—once Subaru feels customers would be willing to pay for them.
Bob
Exactly, and that was what Dave explained. If you have a full-size (large 255 size) tire, you loose significant ground clearance, and your angle of departure is greatly reduced. Now to counter that, if you offered a height-adjustable suspension, much if not all of that could be addressed, for those off road situations in which that could become an issue.
Bob
I know i will have to strech to buy one.
One of the things we talked about was offering specific packages tailored to specific audiences. That way, those who are willing to pay for those items can do so, without penalizing others who don't want those features, nor do they want to pay for them.
Bob
Bob
So it sounds like the base $34K Tribeca will be 5 passenger and cloth.