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Comments
Bob
PS. The rest of the car looks nice, especially the interior.
Or any other aftermarket plug n play :-)
Craig
juice/bob can u all measure from the end of the 2nd row fully back to the tail gate? and if any legroom in that configuration for the 3rd row?
thanks in advance bob/juice
oh never mind, from the interior pics looks like a passenger temp control which perfectly points to passenger, nicely done subaru
Personally, I am having trouble understanding who Subaru believes is the target audience for the Tribeca. For an alleged seven seat vehicle, it seems awfully small and under-powered. I think that it is too small to compete against a minivan and it will have trouble against such luxury vehicles as the MDX and RX 330. It also will probably be too expensive for the Honda Pilot and Highlander crowd, and I haven't even mentioned the ubiquitous, and cheaper, noncrossover domestic SUVs out there.
What I really didn't understand was the comment during the opening ceremony that this was a natural next step for a current Outback owner. I disagree. It's neither big enough (3" bigger wheelbase than the Outback) nor powerful enough, and is really pushing the envelope price wise. Just look at Subaru's experience with the high end Outbacks--how many VDCs are they selling compared to LL Beans, XTs, and lower priced models? If you are going to go upscale, you better not bring the proverbial knife to a gun fight. I just don't see much here to really get too excited about.
Bill
Hope that blind spot isn't as bad as it potentially looks.
The only make or break criteria will be can I get a full size cello case in it with one seat of the 2nd row down! Otherwise it may have to be an XC90. barrf!
iPod anyone?
Proof that Subaru can learn from all the complaints. I wonder if they improved the ACC too?!
And many people, like myself, moved down to an Outback because we had enough of driving a big boring boat of an SUV...
I think this will attract the families who need a minivan but find them uncool. This is the "unminivan" for them, as long as they don't mind the ugly front end.
No B-nivan for me.
It's not 5:1 against, it just sounds that way because the complainers are more vocal.
Legacy is handsome, yes, I loved it from first sight. But it received a lot of criticism for being bland - taillights like the Camry, etc.
And while it is timeless it's also not very memorable. Nor does it look like any other Subaru. If it didn't have a badge on it, 90% of consumers could not identify it as a Subaru.
Bottom line - if the Tribeca looked boring people would overlook it and buy a Highlander or Pilot. Note that the more luxurious clones from Acura and Lexus are more stylish, and, yes, controversial in their looks.
A bigger, boxy Forester might have made more folks happy, but it might also have been perceived as a budget mid-size SUV and not an upscale one.
-juice
Really, why? Offers the same thing for about $6-8 grand less. That's not surprising to me at all.
And the RX is smaller and less powerful yet it outsells the MDX. So those things don't exactly spell doom for the Tribeca.
I can understand if people are upset that Subaru chose to compete in that segment, instead of perhaps a budget off roader like an XTerra or a people mover like the Pilot.
You can't win, I guess. If the Tribeca had come in bigger and at $25 grand pricing, we'd be whining about it not having Nav, DVD, too heavy, poor fuel efficiency, etc.
You can't please everyone. They only have to please RX and MDX intenders, maybe some XC90 shoppers, all at the entry level looking for value.
-juice
Sly
so we should never do another poll in here because the complainers are always more vocal?
18 inch wheels
DVD
NAV
6 Cyl (with just enough power, not to mention better fuel economy)
Power everything
VDC yes I said VDC
Rear climate control
The best ALL WHEEL DRIVE SYSTEM EVER. The others don;t even have that, as a matter of fact the MDX even states it has electronic 4wd. Reactive system..like the others..
Anyways, I agree at 1st the nose was tough..but as I see more and more pictures...It's grown on me, and I'm so proud of Subaru for trying to be different and unique finally, not just different in the technical aspect, which we know they have always been, but style. Who knows it could be like a trend setting thing. Who would think that the Murano was sweet when it 1st came out.
Anyway enough of my rant....I wish Subaru the best of luck, and I will for sure go take a test drive when it comes out..
True AWD
Bob
In short, the problem with the design is that of the front end and no amount of "I'll wait to see one up close" will make it better. Trust me, if Subaru used focus groups, I am certain that they used the renderings for feedback. If that is the case, I cannot fault the public because, as I designer myself, the sketches showed some real sizzle and promise.
However, somewhere from rendering to prototype I am convinced the non-design staff got hold of this thing and their foot-manship shows. All I can say is thank god for car bras because its probably the only thing that can save this turkey.
I've heard posters comment that the RX330, Pilot, MDX and XC90 aren't universal hits from a design perspective and in certain aspects I would agree. How many dances have we all gone to and said that girl is cute and maybe I should introduce myself and get to know her better.
However, when it comes to the B9 all I can think of is the homely neigbor girl at the dance, that always end up in the corner; the girl with the nice personality without a matching facade. In fact, the images of the B9 interior are smart, edgely and refined and are its saving grace. I appaud Subaru, not because they did a great job, but because they lifted the best of Maserati (take a good look at there new sedan and there are just to many similarities).
Again, the front end designs of Outback, Legacy and WRX weren't necessarily great when they came out, but they weren't horrible either. Its just too bad that we will probably have to wait another year for Saab to do the plastic surgery that will hopefully improve this "expensive" dodo.
As I told my staff today during our weekly design review meeting regarding the B9 (lot deweller as I am sure its going to be called): "I liked Jimmy Durante when he was alive(a famous actor that had huge nose as his signature), but I am sure I would have wanted to marry him."
People talk about power being an issue, but really, its not the power thats the problem. 250 hp is very healthy and as noted previously on the forum, bests mosts other premium SUV standard offerings. The problem is the torque peak of 219 lbs at 4400 RPM. The vehicle just isnt going to move off the line smartly, which will be evident in even a short test drive. By comparison, the Lexus RX and Toyota Highlander give up 20 horses to the Tribeca, but compensate with a fairly robust 242 lbs available at 3600 RPM, which creates a stronger sense of off-the-line authority.
Again, I really feel pricing and equipment levels, as well as the efficacy of the marketing campaign (exacty who is the vehicle targeting?) will play HUGE roles in this SUV's success, or lack thereof.
My only point is that this is not going to be the failure of Baja proportions that many here seem to think.
-Joe
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Whats up???
So it may be 5:1 against the grille itself, but overall the ratio of people that like it is much better than that.
MDX is also 225 lbs heavier and the style has aged a lot.
Honestly, I think more people complained about the bug eyes on the WRX. Impreza sales doubled.
Joe: if mileage really is 20/26 I bet people would be willing to give up 20 or so lb-ft of torque. We'll see.
-juice
I think that's a big if though. Seems like the vast majority of us are not even doing that well with our OBs...
Sly
20/26 would be an engineering miracle. Maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up too much.
-juice
Really, I jest, as it is starting to look a little better to me...as I said before, there are a few angles/pics that show some promise and the interior looks fine. I think it will all come down to price, for if the base version is a 5 seater, there's not a whole lot of reasons to choose it over a less-expensive Outback.
Maybe it's so popular it got enough hits that it exceeded the bandwidth capacity of the server.
Must everyone see the glass half full?
Any by the way, the other site that hosted photos was also slowed to a crawl yesterday, so at a minimum there is a ton of interest.
-juice
For me, the nose is not a deal killer. Unfortunate, but doesn't overwhelm the overall potential.
Cult favorite isn't Subaru's goal here - this has to be a mainstream competitor.
I'd venture that was because of the power aspects of the real WRX - people willing to look past the exterior to get to the motor. Did base Imprezas jump that much?
Joe
Because the B9 is targeted to a different market, which seem to less appearance inclined, I think it will do pretty well. The MDX and RX are not somthing to boast about, but they sell well. Of course, it also has to do with customer satisfaction and how they're being treated at dealerships. That alone is a project that Subaru needs to address and hopefully will improve before the B9's start showing up in showrooms. If there's an opportunity for Subaru to address the 'different' market now, they first need to address that the dealers need a personality adjustment.
The fact that the B9's "grow on you" design can have people consider it, it's an advantage that will go up against the MDX and RX (bland and 'whoa, um... ok!') respectively.
That would be dealers and how they profit, not Subaru. Subaru already makes their money when these vehicles show up at dealers. How fast they sell them, gives an advantage to dealers with the agreements made with Subaru.
I'm personally not worried about me paying over invoice (if at the most $300 over invoice) because of my relationship with the dealer. Let the dealer make more money off of those whom they feel they can.
But I wouldn't pay MSRP for no vehicle... no matter the circumstances; but that's just me!!! ;-)
Trust me - the 3 local Subaru dealerships around me here in Boston are nothing to brag about based just on appearance. One has more used cars in stock than Subarus and are working out of an old building even though they have built a brand new Subaru showroom on the property. The other two can fit maybe 2 cars in the showroom and have nice wood paneling on the walls straight out of the 70's.
And yes - appearances count as much to me as the salespeople, service staff, et al.
"And many people, like myself, moved down to an Outback because we had enough of driving a big boring boat of an SUV..."
Exactly! The Outback appealed to people who didn't want a minivan, thought a SUV was too much vehicle, or downsized from a SUV. It addressed an important niche and Subaru reaped the award for being there first.
However, now you have a slew of competitors to the minivan, both low-end (Pilot, Highlander, etc.) and high-end (XC90, RX 330, MDX, etc.).
I have trouble believing that the Tribeca will compete against the Pilot and Highlander; I think that leaves the high-end as the target and Subaru has its work cut out for it. Forgetting about the Jimmy Durante nose for a moment, what Subaru wants you to believe is that the Tribeca is a great value for the money compared to the other luxo crossover vehicles. It probably is, but I think that "value" becomes more discounted as the cost of the vehicle heads north. Buying a $35k+ car is about more than value...it's cachet and bragging rights.
When I bought my 01 VDC ($30k fully loaded INC. TTL) I was cross-shopping the Passat 4-motion. I thought that you got a little bit more with the VDC (and the VDC with the VDC system and Mac stereo system wasn't a horrible stretch compared to the LL Bean). Cross-shopping the luxo vehicles wasn't even a consideration.
So is the Tribeca a natural next step for a high-end Outback owner who wants a larger vehicle? Frankly, I don't know and I have my doubts. I think that it will depend on how much larger a vehicle you need and cost. Despite all this talk about the Tribeca seating seven, it really is a five seater and there is a ton of competition. It also seems a bit underpowered and too luxurious at the expense of functionality, e.g., towing capacity and lack of roof rails. (Also, as an aside: Does Subaru have something against HID? I would much rather have HID than a NAV [anyone heard of a map?] anyday.)
Juice:
Ok, maybe sentiment is not running 5:1 against the new design. However, there is no denying the painfully obvious fact that the design isn't a home run (or even a triple or double). When a significant number of people have a negative reaction, it is not a good sign. Also, comparing folks reaction to that of the WRX's bug eyes is way off the mark...the WRX did not have a peer; it was/is a great car in terms of performance and value. The bug eyes were easily overlooked compared to the whole package. The Tribeca is going up against established luxo vehicles with widely accepted styling. First impressions matter a lot.
Bill
BTW, a useless roof rack was one of the things that drove me away from the MDX back in 01/02.
Craig
The ideal for my next Subaru would be a stripped Outback (Outback Brighton?). Give me the 2.5 litre engine, a 5 speed manual trans. Omit the keyless entry, heated seats, power seats, automatic climate control. Does anybody remember Subaru, inexpensive and made to stay that way. ?
-Jim
My big question is if the B9 fits. If it has a telescoping wheel, it probably will.