Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Okay, what's an "AUX," and why is it so great?

     

    Bob
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    iPod...
  • jschatjschat Member Posts: 8
    I might change my mind after I see the real thing but why a manufacturer would spent millions of dollars in R&D and designed something that received numerous negative feedback? I don't recall having this reaction when I first saw any previous version of the Outbacks, or even the bug eyes WRX.

     

    PS. The rest of the car looks nice, especially the interior.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    iPod...

     

    Or any other aftermarket plug n play :-)
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I agree with you, since the styling of the 05 Legacy/Outback is a homerun in my book. I can't see why Subaru went out on a limb with the B9 when they are clearly capable of producing good looking cars without controversy. But apparently, it was a hit in consumer clinics, so that gives me some hope it will look good in person. Then again, we can only assume the Aztek went through clinics too....

     

    Craig
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    they dont have a mustached man doubling up in edmunds
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    1-2 ft? lol at the base, i can feel my head resting on the tail gate window.

     

    juice/bob can u all measure from the end of the 2nd row fully back to the tail gate? and if any legroom in that configuration for the 3rd row?
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    see how that right controls on center dash feel when in drivers seat. how far it is, how far of a reach is it, can u read the control?

     

    thanks in advance bob/juice

     

    oh never mind, from the interior pics looks like a passenger temp control which perfectly points to passenger, nicely done subaru
  • WMartonWMarton Member Posts: 58
    Let's see: Bob, Juice, Sweet Subie, ... anyone else like the design? Looking back on the last few pages of the forum, it seems that opinion is running 5:1 (minimum) against folks liking this new look Subaru. Not a very auspicious start.

     

    Personally, I am having trouble understanding who Subaru believes is the target audience for the Tribeca. For an alleged seven seat vehicle, it seems awfully small and under-powered. I think that it is too small to compete against a minivan and it will have trouble against such luxury vehicles as the MDX and RX 330. It also will probably be too expensive for the Honda Pilot and Highlander crowd, and I haven't even mentioned the ubiquitous, and cheaper, noncrossover domestic SUVs out there.

     

    What I really didn't understand was the comment during the opening ceremony that this was a natural next step for a current Outback owner. I disagree. It's neither big enough (3" bigger wheelbase than the Outback) nor powerful enough, and is really pushing the envelope price wise. Just look at Subaru's experience with the high end Outbacks--how many VDCs are they selling compared to LL Beans, XTs, and lower priced models? If you are going to go upscale, you better not bring the proverbial knife to a gun fight. I just don't see much here to really get too excited about.

     

    Bill
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    Bill: You've taken the words right out of my mouth. Add in some marginal Subaru dealer service, and the competition looks even better. Sure hope its better looking in person. Martin
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    I can live with the looks. I hated my 86 Integra's backend for the first 2 years!

    Hope that blind spot isn't as bad as it potentially looks.

    The only make or break criteria will be can I get a full size cello case in it with one seat of the 2nd row down! Otherwise it may have to be an XC90. barrf!
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Aux in is a surprise, I really didn't expect that given the Legacy didn't get it.

      

    iPod anyone?


     

    Proof that Subaru can learn from all the complaints. I wonder if they improved the ACC too?!
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    What I really didn't understand was the comment during the opening ceremony that this was a natural next step for a current Outback owner. I disagree. It's neither big enough (3" bigger wheelbase than the Outback) nor powerful enough, and is really pushing the envelope price wise.

     

    And many people, like myself, moved down to an Outback because we had enough of driving a big boring boat of an SUV...

     

    I think this will attract the families who need a minivan but find them uncool. This is the "unminivan" for them, as long as they don't mind the ugly front end.

     

    No B-nivan for me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You gotta be kidding me, the WRX got a bunch more negative press about the bug eyes, and today they are a cult favorite.

     

    It's not 5:1 against, it just sounds that way because the complainers are more vocal.

     

    Legacy is handsome, yes, I loved it from first sight. But it received a lot of criticism for being bland - taillights like the Camry, etc.

     

    And while it is timeless it's also not very memorable. Nor does it look like any other Subaru. If it didn't have a badge on it, 90% of consumers could not identify it as a Subaru.

     

    Bottom line - if the Tribeca looked boring people would overlook it and buy a Highlander or Pilot. Note that the more luxurious clones from Acura and Lexus are more stylish, and, yes, controversial in their looks.

     

    A bigger, boxy Forester might have made more folks happy, but it might also have been perceived as a budget mid-size SUV and not an upscale one.

     

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    will have trouble against such luxury vehicles as the MDX and RX 330

     

    Really, why? Offers the same thing for about $6-8 grand less. That's not surprising to me at all.

     

    And the RX is smaller and less powerful yet it outsells the MDX. So those things don't exactly spell doom for the Tribeca.

     

    I can understand if people are upset that Subaru chose to compete in that segment, instead of perhaps a budget off roader like an XTerra or a people mover like the Pilot.

     

    You can't win, I guess. If the Tribeca had come in bigger and at $25 grand pricing, we'd be whining about it not having Nav, DVD, too heavy, poor fuel efficiency, etc.

     

    You can't please everyone. They only have to please RX and MDX intenders, maybe some XC90 shoppers, all at the entry level looking for value.

     

    -juice
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    It will be a winner next year, after they re-design the front grill and start offering a more powerful engine.

     

    Sly
  • trueawdtrueawd Member Posts: 64
    I agree with Juice. This thing is going to be sweet!!
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    It's not 5:1 against, it just sounds that way because the complainers are more vocal.

     

    so we should never do another poll in here because the complainers are always more vocal?
  • trueawdtrueawd Member Posts: 64
    That's 6 to 8 grand less with

     

    18 inch wheels

    DVD

    NAV

    6 Cyl (with just enough power, not to mention better fuel economy)

    Power everything

    VDC yes I said VDC

    Rear climate control

    The best ALL WHEEL DRIVE SYSTEM EVER. The others don;t even have that, as a matter of fact the MDX even states it has electronic 4wd. Reactive system..like the others..

     

    Anyways, I agree at 1st the nose was tough..but as I see more and more pictures...It's grown on me, and I'm so proud of Subaru for trying to be different and unique finally, not just different in the technical aspect, which we know they have always been, but style. Who knows it could be like a trend setting thing. Who would think that the Murano was sweet when it 1st came out.

     

    Anyway enough of my rant....I wish Subaru the best of luck, and I will for sure go take a test drive when it comes out..

     

    True AWD
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Trueawd. I couldn't have said it better! :)

     

    Bob
  • ideatampaideatampa Member Posts: 16
    I am sorry to say that I have to stand by my original opinion that I have posted that Subaru has laid a design egg with the B9 Tribeca.

     

    In short, the problem with the design is that of the front end and no amount of "I'll wait to see one up close" will make it better. Trust me, if Subaru used focus groups, I am certain that they used the renderings for feedback. If that is the case, I cannot fault the public because, as I designer myself, the sketches showed some real sizzle and promise.

     

    However, somewhere from rendering to prototype I am convinced the non-design staff got hold of this thing and their foot-manship shows. All I can say is thank god for car bras because its probably the only thing that can save this turkey.

     

    I've heard posters comment that the RX330, Pilot, MDX and XC90 aren't universal hits from a design perspective and in certain aspects I would agree. How many dances have we all gone to and said that girl is cute and maybe I should introduce myself and get to know her better.

     

    However, when it comes to the B9 all I can think of is the homely neigbor girl at the dance, that always end up in the corner; the girl with the nice personality without a matching facade. In fact, the images of the B9 interior are smart, edgely and refined and are its saving grace. I appaud Subaru, not because they did a great job, but because they lifted the best of Maserati (take a good look at there new sedan and there are just to many similarities).

     

    Again, the front end designs of Outback, Legacy and WRX weren't necessarily great when they came out, but they weren't horrible either. Its just too bad that we will probably have to wait another year for Saab to do the plastic surgery that will hopefully improve this "expensive" dodo.

     

    As I told my staff today during our weekly design review meeting regarding the B9 (lot deweller as I am sure its going to be called): "I liked Jimmy Durante when he was alive(a famous actor that had huge nose as his signature), but I am sure I would have wanted to marry him."
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Really, I dont feel the Tribeca is as bad a design as some feel. Is it gorgeous? No, but it is 'stand-out', and for a company like Subaru, that isnt necessarily bad. To my fairly young eyes, I like the dramatic/austere rear end, and the vehicle profile. The interior is very handsome, in my opinion, with what seem to be the same very high grade materials used in the 05 Legacy and Outback, and the color variation is very pleasing to the eye.

     

    People talk about power being an issue, but really, its not the power thats the problem. 250 hp is very healthy and as noted previously on the forum, bests mosts other premium SUV standard offerings. The problem is the torque peak of 219 lbs at 4400 RPM. The vehicle just isnt going to move off the line smartly, which will be evident in even a short test drive. By comparison, the Lexus RX and Toyota Highlander give up 20 horses to the Tribeca, but compensate with a fairly robust 242 lbs available at 3600 RPM, which creates a stronger sense of off-the-line authority.

     

    Again, I really feel pricing and equipment levels, as well as the efficacy of the marketing campaign (exacty who is the vehicle targeting?) will play HUGE roles in this SUV's success, or lack thereof.

     

    My only point is that this is not going to be the failure of Baja proportions that many here seem to think.

     

     
    -Joe
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    When you go to the new website: http://b9tribeca.com/sub/b9/home_flash.html

     

    you get:

     

    404 Error -- File Not Found

    The page you are looking for (http://b9tribeca.com/sub/b9/home_flash.html) is not here.

      Possible Reasons:

      

    You may have spelled the URL incorrectly.

    This site may have been removed due to a violation of the Community Architect "Acceptable Use Policy".

    This site may have been moved to a different server.

      

    Whats up???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's not what I mean, swampy. trueawd is the 4th thumbs up. Count the thumbs down and I doubt you'll reach 20. A lot of people are on The Fence even about the look, sort of neutral or they like everything expect for the grille.

     

    So it may be 5:1 against the grille itself, but overall the ratio of people that like it is much better than that.

     

    MDX is also 225 lbs heavier and the style has aged a lot.

     

    Honestly, I think more people complained about the bug eyes on the WRX. Impreza sales doubled.

     

    Joe: if mileage really is 20/26 I bet people would be willing to give up 20 or so lb-ft of torque. We'll see.

     

    -juice
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    "Joe: if mileage really is 20/26 I bet people would be willing to give up 20 or so lb-ft of torque. We'll see."

     

    I think that's a big if though. Seems like the vast majority of us are not even doing that well with our OBs...

     

    Sly
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The number does sound optimistic. Isn't about 18/23 par for the class? I just hope they can top that.

     

    20/26 would be an engineering miracle. Maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up too much.

     

    -juice
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Maybe they're changing the name of this thing again!? or maybe, after negative reaction after the official unveiling, they're hiding it until it can undergo some plastic surgery!?

    Really, I jest, as it is starting to look a little better to me...as I said before, there are a few angles/pics that show some promise and the interior looks fine. I think it will all come down to price, for if the base version is a 5 seater, there's not a whole lot of reasons to choose it over a less-expensive Outback.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You guys crack me up.

     

    Maybe it's so popular it got enough hits that it exceeded the bandwidth capacity of the server.

     

    Must everyone see the glass half full?

     

    Any by the way, the other site that hosted photos was also slowed to a crawl yesterday, so at a minimum there is a ton of interest.

     

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    NY Times reports that the B9 intro was standing room only 30 minutes before it even started. Unfortunately, NYTimes also drew immediate parallels to Edsel.

     

    For me, the nose is not a deal killer. Unfortunate, but doesn't overwhelm the overall potential.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...and today they are a cult favorite.

     

    Cult favorite isn't Subaru's goal here - this has to be a mainstream competitor.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Honestly, I think more people complained about the bug eyes on the WRX. Impreza sales doubled.

     

    I'd venture that was because of the power aspects of the real WRX - people willing to look past the exterior to get to the motor. Did base Imprezas jump that much?
  • emtemt Member Posts: 39
    The front end is a love it or hate it design. I happen to like it. Dodge used the same idea with the redesign of the Ram pickup back in 94. You either hated the look or loved it. I think we all know that the Ram was a success. The Tribeca will be also.

     

    Joe
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    arent most subarus selling for around invoice?
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I honestly think that the bugeyes received more of an outcry because the market it was intended to address is very concerned about appearance as well.

    Because the B9 is targeted to a different market, which seem to less appearance inclined, I think it will do pretty well. The MDX and RX are not somthing to boast about, but they sell well. Of course, it also has to do with customer satisfaction and how they're being treated at dealerships. That alone is a project that Subaru needs to address and hopefully will improve before the B9's start showing up in showrooms. If there's an opportunity for Subaru to address the 'different' market now, they first need to address that the dealers need a personality adjustment.

    The fact that the B9's "grow on you" design can have people consider it, it's an advantage that will go up against the MDX and RX (bland and 'whoa, um... ok!') respectively.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    arent most subarus selling for around invoice?



    That would be dealers and how they profit, not Subaru. Subaru already makes their money when these vehicles show up at dealers. How fast they sell them, gives an advantage to dealers with the agreements made with Subaru.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    if dealers are going to offer a premuim vehicle with premuim services dont they have to sell at higher than invoice?
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Dealers get additional incentives with car companies based on how well they sell and their customers. Word of mouth goes a long way when dealers know how to treat their customers too. That's unadvertised marketing for profit.

     

    I'm personally not worried about me paying over invoice (if at the most $300 over invoice) because of my relationship with the dealer. Let the dealer make more money off of those whom they feel they can.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    so lexus is evil?
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Remember, people are willing to pay more IF their service is impeccable.

     

    But I wouldn't pay MSRP for no vehicle... no matter the circumstances; but that's just me!!! ;-)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I don't think most people pay MSRP for Lexus'. But the dealership experience is so much more than the average dealership.

     

    Trust me - the 3 local Subaru dealerships around me here in Boston are nothing to brag about based just on appearance. One has more used cars in stock than Subarus and are working out of an old building even though they have built a brand new Subaru showroom on the property. The other two can fit maybe 2 cars in the showroom and have nice wood paneling on the walls straight out of the 70's.

     

    And yes - appearances count as much to me as the salespeople, service staff, et al.
  • WMartonWMarton Member Posts: 58
    SDuford wrote:

     

    "And many people, like myself, moved down to an Outback because we had enough of driving a big boring boat of an SUV..."

     

    Exactly! The Outback appealed to people who didn't want a minivan, thought a SUV was too much vehicle, or downsized from a SUV. It addressed an important niche and Subaru reaped the award for being there first.

     

    However, now you have a slew of competitors to the minivan, both low-end (Pilot, Highlander, etc.) and high-end (XC90, RX 330, MDX, etc.).

    I have trouble believing that the Tribeca will compete against the Pilot and Highlander; I think that leaves the high-end as the target and Subaru has its work cut out for it. Forgetting about the Jimmy Durante nose for a moment, what Subaru wants you to believe is that the Tribeca is a great value for the money compared to the other luxo crossover vehicles. It probably is, but I think that "value" becomes more discounted as the cost of the vehicle heads north. Buying a $35k+ car is about more than value...it's cachet and bragging rights.

     

    When I bought my 01 VDC ($30k fully loaded INC. TTL) I was cross-shopping the Passat 4-motion. I thought that you got a little bit more with the VDC (and the VDC with the VDC system and Mac stereo system wasn't a horrible stretch compared to the LL Bean). Cross-shopping the luxo vehicles wasn't even a consideration.

     

    So is the Tribeca a natural next step for a high-end Outback owner who wants a larger vehicle? Frankly, I don't know and I have my doubts. I think that it will depend on how much larger a vehicle you need and cost. Despite all this talk about the Tribeca seating seven, it really is a five seater and there is a ton of competition. It also seems a bit underpowered and too luxurious at the expense of functionality, e.g., towing capacity and lack of roof rails. (Also, as an aside: Does Subaru have something against HID? I would much rather have HID than a NAV [anyone heard of a map?] anyday.)

     

    Juice:

     

    Ok, maybe sentiment is not running 5:1 against the new design. However, there is no denying the painfully obvious fact that the design isn't a home run (or even a triple or double). When a significant number of people have a negative reaction, it is not a good sign. Also, comparing folks reaction to that of the WRX's bug eyes is way off the mark...the WRX did not have a peer; it was/is a great car in terms of performance and value. The bug eyes were easily overlooked compared to the whole package. The Tribeca is going up against established luxo vehicles with widely accepted styling. First impressions matter a lot.

     

    Bill
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I know most people don't, but they also don't pay invoice for them either.
  • erik_herik_h Member Posts: 77
    I looked at the specs for the b9x and I noticed a 16.9 gal gas tank. This would seem to be a few gallons short of what is needed. Even if their economy was a few higher then the rest in the class it would give a fairly short range. This is one of the issues with the early rx300's.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I also noticed the lack of rack siderails, but that may not be an issue -- the B9 has a large seam (covered by trim) running down each side of the roof, and it would not surprise me if Subaru built some rack system attachment points in there. That would make a lot of sense. It would be very uncharacteristic of Subaru to not have a rack capability -- they have a large line of rack systems and accesories for all the other wagons in the lineup.

     

    BTW, a useless roof rack was one of the things that drove me away from the MDX back in 01/02.

     

    Craig
  • gearhead4gearhead4 Member Posts: 122
    I like the idea of a 7 seat Subaru, but the Tribeca barely qualifies. Everything else is too much...Exterior styling is overstated and goes back to the old Subaru tradition of weird. The curb weight is pretty high at 4200+ lbs. The interior is over styled. Even the engine requires too much oil... over 7 quarts!.

    The ideal for my next Subaru would be a stripped Outback (Outback Brighton?). Give me the 2.5 litre engine, a 5 speed manual trans. Omit the keyless entry, heated seats, power seats, automatic climate control. Does anybody remember Subaru, inexpensive and made to stay that way. ?

     

    -Jim
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    just like everything else in life.
  • austinstiguyaustinstiguy Member Posts: 13
    I am by no means an SUV hater or anything of that nature however I still think Subaru is headed for a train wreck with this one. The first USDM WRX may have not been pretty but it had bang-for the buck that was previously unheard of and a true rally heritage. I don't think you can comptete in this segment with out eight cylinders, just look at the XC90 and that is one solid SUV. I wonder if GM forced Subaru to sandbag the B9 to make the SAAB version look better...........
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    I plan to go to Detroit to see the B9 this weekend along with other cars of interest (weather permitting).

     

    My big question is if the B9 fits. If it has a telescoping wheel, it probably will.
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