Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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Comments

  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Ouch
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yes, but I think the MSRP will be a bit lower, although no firm pricing was yet available. We did ask.

     

    Bob
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I have never been to a Forum where there are so many devoted cheerleaders!!

     

    This has to be the only site where prices seems to be of no object for most members.

     

    Even with a possible price that can go up to 40k, most forum members are eager to have more features that would boost the price further! Oh well it's only money, right?

     
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    But $34K is a number that has been bandied about for the base model. So jump to $35.5K for 7 seater with rear HVAC. Jump to $37.5K for leather lined limited 7 seater. Add $1250 each for DVD and NAV and viola there's $40K.

     

    Hence my theory that the $34K Tribeca is not a direct upgrade for a $34K Outback. Did anybody really expect a 7 seater limited for 34K?

     

    But until we see firm numbers and features - we're all blowing smoke.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    "Did anybody really expect a 7 seater limited for 34K?"

     

     

    Yes they are called a Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander and Nissan Pathfinder! Is that not the competition? Or should the competition be redefined as a Lexus, Infiniti and Acura! Gimme a Break!!!!

     

    "But until we see firm numbers and features - we're all blowing smoke"

     

    After seeing the expected price, most the smoke is coming out of my ears
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Given the premium they currently add when selling them in Canada. I'm afraid most of us will stay away.

     

    At the current 1.5 premium over the US prices (while the exchange rate is only about 1.22), that would make this car start at $51K and top out at $60K+. That's the same price range as the RX-330.

     

    Given that Lexus is the #1 rated brand in Canada for quality, reliabilty, and service, and Subaru Canada is only rated average for quality and reliability and below average for service, this csr will not sell up here at those prices. Doesn''t matter how nice and well equipped, it will not sell very well at all.

     

    Subaru will really need to up their service game if they want to start attracting buyers in that price range. But that would take years to accomplish.

     

    Sly
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Then the Pilot is the clear winner. No argument there. It seems even roomier than its MDX cousin. Both are wider than the Tribeca.

     

    I suspect, however, neither will be as fun to drive as the Tribeca. Neither have SportShift. Neither have as sophisticated an AWD system as the Tribeca. I would assume both have a higher center of gravity than the Tribeca.

     

    The 3rd-row seat on the Highlander is an afterthought. There's very little room there, but even worse, it does not have a split-fold feature.

     

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Bob - I was under the impression there was a new MDX coming out for the 2006 model year. You never know what could happen there with SH-AWD and sport shift.

     

    As for the "as sophisticated an AWD system" - do most buyers really care? I think not.

     

    I'd like to see the Tribeca do well - the more choices we have, the better. The face has grown on me. But feature wise, it's gotta have more to differentiate itself.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The current Canadian US 1.5 premium in itself is a joke! This is not only applicable to Subaru but other auto marques.

     

    Sduford, I guess you are well aware that Canadian dealerships will not be too eager to pass on their foreign exchange profits to their customers(I heard that for most car companies the dealer costs are quoted in US$ not CDN$ )

     

    So keep that in mind when you visit your friendly local dealer and negotiate a price(whether it will be Subaru or not)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    "I'd like to see the Tribeca do well"

     

    The Tribeca can do very well! In fact I want it in my garage. BUT it all depends on Price.

     

    If Subaru prices its B9 as expected from prior posts, it will be a low volume niche vehicle catered to a Core of Subaru devotees. In the beginning it will sell wonderfully, but after 2 years when all the Subaru fans have one in their garage it's sales will go downhill.

     

    If priced competitively against Toyota/Honda(or any other marque)---the B9 can become a high volume seller with a lot of former Honda/Toyota owners becoming Subaru converts.
  • WMartonWMarton Member Posts: 58
    Bob,

     

    A lot of those features could be added without taking the price to $10k. Obviously, new trannys and suspensions would be costly, but I am sure that Subaru has most of the other items sitting in the parts bin somewhere. I am really disappointed that they didn't add HID and a telescoping steering wheel. My two biggest complaints about my 01 OB VDC are the lack of versatility in terms of seat position and the mediocre headlights. I travel to western MD/PA quite a bit and there are quite a number of critters that always seem to want to cross the road in front of the OB at night. Having HID would be a definite plus. I also share your concern that Subaru is moving away from its outdoorsy image. It seems to me that the competition for the Tribeca are the RX 330 and MDX. The Pilots and SUVs of their ilk offer better value if the emphasis is placed on function, i.e., seating/cargo capacity and price.

     

    Oh, since I mentioned the OB, here is a problem that I am grappling with right now. The speedometer and tachometer are caput. The proposed solution is to add a new circuit plate, but the folks at the dealership say that this will zero out the odometer, thereby destroying the re-sale value of the car. It's just over 3 1/2 years old and has 30k miles on it. I hope that someone--either at Subaru or the dealership--can come up with a better solution.

     

    Bill
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    keep tickling their ears about a Baja Tribeca. We need this vehicle and the B9 is a perfect platform for it.

     

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Bob - I was under the impression there was a new MDX coming out for the 2006 model year. You never know what could happen there with SH-AWD and sport shift.

     

    It's due to be replaced, and I'm sure it will have SH-AWD, as the concept RD-X has that feature; but we're talking about vehicles we know about.

     

    As for the "as sophisticated an AWD system" - do most buyers really care? I think not.

     

    Not sure I agree with that. As more and more vehicles show up with AWD, there's bound to be comparisons as to which offers the best system, just like there have always been debates over the best type of engine.

     

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Oh I mentioned that a number of times! Combine the Tribeca with the new Honda Ridgeline, and Subaru would have a sure winner.

     

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Not sure I agree with that. As more and more vehicles show up with AWD, there's bound to be comparisons as to which offers the best system, just like there have always been debates over the best type of engine.

     

    But only among enthusiasts - not the general market.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    A lot of those features could be added without taking the price to $10k.

     

    Oh I know that, but if you add in our complete wish list, it could.

     

    Subaru is constantly weighing price vs. content. They did pretty good with this vehicle, but it's not perfect, and I know that. I wish it had more from the get go. I'm more concerned about their shift away from outdoorsy stuff/image, frankly.

     

    Bob
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Actually, I don't miss HIDs on my '05 LGT ltd. The projector beam halogens are quite bright and clear, better than some HIDs. HIDs just have more bling factor, but not necessarily more function.

     

    I think the telescoping wheel could be a problem- My wife always had problems fitting behind the wheel of my SUVs since she's so short. It always made me uncomfortable that she was so close to the wheel.

     

    I'm not sure how Subaru is going to go "premium" without a premium price. It cannot go head to head with Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans and expect to be "premium". It has to be better and less expensive than Acuras, Lexus, and Infiniti. And while it seems really nice, it doesn't have the power to play in that league, IMHO.

     

    In the sedan market, we all pay a premium to drive a Subie. But in the SUV market, where everything is AWD, why should people pay that premium to drive a Subie?

     

    I think the car needs more power, needs to be loaded (like the premium brands) and come out several thousand less. Then it might get a foothold in the market.

     

    Otherwise, it's just an overpriced Subie playing 'dress up'.

     

    tom
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I think the telescoping wheel could be a problem - My wife always had problems fitting behind the wheel of my SUVs since she's so short. It always made me uncomfortable that she was so close to the wheel.

     

    I'd ask for power pedals instead - it allows the seat to be further back from the wheel which is the real danger with airbags.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'd ask for power pedals instead - it allows the seat to be further back from the wheel which is the real danger with airbags.

     

    I agree.

     

    Bob
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    First, thanks again to Bob and Juice.

     

    I have to agree that just from what I have heard so far, the Tribecca is moving more towards a city vehicle, rather than an outdoors type. Part of the appeal of Subaru is it's ability to take it offroad, when wanted. I know I have done that a couple of times with my OBW, and it is something I want in my next Subaru.

     

    With that said, if they made a "Telluride" version as earlier suggested, that would definitely appeal to me. As someone who doesn't really need a 7 passenger vehicle at this time, the Tribecca is intriguing.

     

    Also, for your list of what is wanted - please add having the power to windows/accessories stay on for 30 sec. after the key is removed. That is something that I have wished for several times. It is aslo something most "premium" brands seem to offer.

     

    Mark
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Yeah, we have them on our minivan. It's much nicer for her. But since I've never seen adjustable pedals on a Subie, at least they could do a telescoping wheel. Although, i've never seen that on a Subie either. ;-)

    Edit: did the SVX have a tele wheel?

     

    tom
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...please add having the power to windows/accessories stay on for 30 sec. after the key is removed...It is aslo something most "premium" brands seem to offer.

     

    Heck - Honda Accords have had that since at least 1991.
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Thats not premium. Its general market since all GM vehicals do it. I guess I don't consider Chevy as premium. I think our Tahoe keeps the radio and windows functioning for 5 minutes or until you open a door. Great feature.

     

    -Jay
  • damish003damish003 Member Posts: 303
    I must admit that Subarus lack of a telescoping wheel has always bugged me, and I'm just stunned that it's not going to be available on the Tribeca. I love Subies, but what are they thinking? Keep all the Nav/DVD stuff and trade me a wheel that's a comfortable reach. I'm fairly tall, and when I put the seat of a Subie at a good leg length, I have to fully stretch to reach the wheel. Short folks have the opposite problem. I've been listening to folks on these boards complain about this issue for at least the past three years. What's the hold-up?

     

    -Dan-
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Also, for your list of what is wanted - please add having the power to windows/accessories stay on for 30 sec. after the key is removed.

     

    That was also discussed with Dave, the Brand Manager. I forgot to mention it here, but thanks for reminding.

     

    Bob
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    I can't speak for the US market, but I am 100% sure that Subaru will fail in Canada if they position this as a luxury city slicker.

     

    As I said earlier, Subaru is not perceived as a quality brand up here and their service is pretty lame. People buy Subarus because of their ruggedness, value, and all-weather capability.

     

    If they try to compete with the likes of Lexus, Acura and Volvo it will be a total failure. I would bet money on that.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    What were 2004 Canadian total new vehicle sales, and what was the number for Subaru? Anyone know?

     

    -Joe
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    According to subaru.ca:

     

    Subaru sales were 16,311 up 12.1% for 2004

     

    According to newswire.ca:

     

    sales are expected to be up slightly to 1.56 million vehicles in 2005

     

    Close enough for our WAG ciphering!!
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    if this tribeca turns out to be a huge success, then sub can afford to try a baja tribeca
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    yep, Honda gets a lot right but the interior cheesiness on the Element is what put me in a Forester. I haven't seen the Ridgeline myself but Juice says the interior has room for improvement, so SOA may have an opening there.

     

    Key: don't wait too many years or the wide open door will be filled with competitive vehicles. Note, the new Explorer platform will likely be put on the SportTrac, making two mid-size Baja type vehicles available.

     

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No parking sensor or rear view camera. They could do things like that but price would break $40k.

     

    Remember, the base Lexus RX has cloth and none of that stuff. It's all options, expensive options.

     

    3 kids in 2nd row? It's not as wide as the Pilot, but it's wider than the RX. The cargo area is 2-3" wider than the RX, but the Pilot is a few inches wider still.

     

    Windows have frames, yes. It might be the most quiet Subaru ever.

     

    Footwells cramped? No. Subaru was very smart - both the first and 2nd row seats are mounted off the ground enough that you have room for sneaker under both rows. This buys you extra space and is very smart.

     

    In fact, the Legacy lacks this, so the 2nd row of the Tribeca is much more comfy, especially the middle seat. The "hump" in the middle is also small, much smaller than the one in my Forester.

     

    As to Ken's question, how does it feel sitting inside? You feel like a VIP. Rich. Definitely. This is not your average interior.

     

    Go to an MDX and you suddenly feel inadequate, or at least outdated.

     

    Windows are huge - good observation. Ginormous. The door opens real wide to let you in, ingress/egress is excellent. Hip point on seats is about where the Forester is, which I love. It is not as high a throne as the LR3.

     

    Moonroof is small, because the DVD gets in the way.

     

    Payload was over 1000 lbs, I think 1070 or so? Bob?

     

    Models with the DVD option are iPod ready. Rumors have it next year all models will have Aux inputs.

     

    I'm still catching up, I'm on post 791.

     

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Remember, the base Lexus RX has cloth and none of that stuff.

     

    But it doesn't really exist does it??!!
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Juice, my question was about leg room in the FRONT. From the pictures it looks like the wrap around console really cramps things up. How did it felt?

     

    Leaving space for feet to fit under the seats is smart? Duh, I've never had a car that didn't do that, except for my OBXT. NOT doing that is NOT smart. Doing it is normal.
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Oh yeah. Forgot about the backup sensors. Definite must. Should be a safety issue. Shouldn't cost more than a few hundred to put in. Extremely useful (had it installed on all my SUVs and came with my latest minivan) especially with small kids.

     

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, Rob, and neither does an RX priced under $40k. LOL

     

    Recline - yes, both 2nd and 3rd row seats recline. That helps, that and the foot space under the seats.

     

    The Nissan Pathfinder is bigger but the 3rd row is BOLT-UPRIGHT and that made it simply uninhabitable.

     

    Many competitors had high floors and that also kills the 3rd row.

     

    Subaru beat 'em in both areas, but I still won't call it roomy.

     

    LCD size is 9", it's huge. All competitors have 7" or less screens, they look puny next to the Subie's. The new Odyssey has a 9" screen but I think it's the only vehicle in the industry to match the Tribeca there.

     

    Actually, in park, with both screens playing the video, it was really cool, very high-tech. People gathered to watch the rally video they put on the two screens.

     

    We asked about retained accessory power, one response (or excuse depending upon your angle) was that they said many owners like the auto-off headlight feature. You remove the key and the lights go off so your battery never dies. That might have had some influence, that and containing the costs.

     

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You simply will not understand why this does not compete directly with the Pilot until you sit inside them both back-to-back.

     

    Pilot is fine for the average Joe, sure, 7" DVD means you only have to squint a little. LOL

     

    But seriously, the Pilot owner's boss will trade in his MDX for a Tribeca.

     

    It is much, much nicer. Like a TSX is to a Civic. No kidding.

     

    Sure, Honda has good assembly quality but the materials used are pretty pedestrian next to the Subaru, and the design is just plain bland.

     

    The MDX has the nicer materials but still loses out on the design side.

     

    I bet the next generation MDX will have a similar interior. Seriously, the Tribeca's interior looks more like the TSX', done taller for an SUV.

     

    Having said that, they still had to beat Lexus/Acura and Volvo in price, so they will. A loaded Tribeca will cost about what a stripped model from those makes will cost.

     

    In essence it falls inbetween the two segments. Call it premium mainstream or near-near-luxury or whatever you may.

     

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    We asked about retained accessory power, one response (or excuse depending upon your angle) was that they said many owners like the auto-off headlight feature. You remove the key and the lights go off so your battery never dies. That might have had some influence, that and containing the costs.

     

    I say the latter. Honda puts a little timer on the headlights for auto-off after the key is removed. Retained power should be for closing windows, sunroof, et al.

     

    I think the feature is sitting in a warehouse next to the factory tinted windows for the Outback. :)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Note, the new Explorer platform will likely be put on the SportTrac, making two mid-size Baja type vehicles available.

     

    Ford showed that very concept at the show. An IRS Sport Trac based on the new Explorer.

     

    Payload was over 1100 pounds.

     

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    BTW I agree and I was the one that asked Product Planning for it. So there. ;-)

     

    It's funny, I think Honda is granted God status by a lot of people. If you have not sat in or driven a Pilot lately, please do. It is not perfect by any means. Puh-lease.

     

    Size is good, width and room are class-leading, at least for car-based SUVs. Kudos. Pricing is competitive, too. If you shop for square-foot-per-dollar, stop here and go buy your Honda. Or the Durango for that matter.

     

    But go drive one. Handling is the opposite of sporty, in fact I think the Odyssey actually has a better ride/handling balance.

     

    Materials are mostly hard plastics, some of them shiny. Accord had higher quality switches and materials. The overall design is unimaginative.

     

    The powertrain everyone here thinks is perfect is far from, it's too weak to tow anything at all without two coolers - oil and power steering, both required and included with the very expensive tow package. Transmission problems are still common.

     

    No Sportshift. FWD 99% of the time. 7" DVD looks small after you've seen Subaru's. And at least back when I looked you could get DVD or Nav, but not both.

     

    The one I drove back then had several quality issues, and even the pre-production Tribeca did not.

     

    Here was my review for the 2004:

     

    ateixeira, "Town Hall Test Drive Team" #12, 24 Jun 2003 2:23 pm

     

    Note the 2nd row now slides so they fixed the leg room issue.

     

    If you want a soft, practical SUV for a value price and don't mind the no frills ambience, be my guest.

     

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "Having said that, they still had to beat Lexus/Acura and Volvo in price, so they will. A loaded Tribeca will cost about what a stripped model from those makes will cost.

      

    In essence it falls inbetween the two segments. Call it premium mainstream or near-near-luxury or whatever you may."

     

    Very, very smart on Subaru's part, IMHO.

     

    Oh- and, FWIW, - sent the link via email to the Tribeca website to 5 friends (non-car types) who love our Legacy- their comments were all very similar, I'll use one to represent all 5 "OMG the Subaru is BUTT ugly! Everything looks fine till you get to the ugliest front since the Pontiac Aztec! Boo Hiss!"

     

    3 males, 2 female, all my age (23).

     

    I told them they need to see it in person, and it will grow on them.... I'd like to believe this myself.

     

    ~alpha
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's see how the "inbetween" strategy works for Subaru.

     

    One thing I mentioned is that there is not much of a spread from a base model to a loaded one. When you look at some mid-sizers, they start at $24k and go all the way up to $42k.

     

    Limited resources probably forced them to stick to the middle of the segment. So it's funny but they might have ended up there because they had to.

     

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Windows have frames, yes. It might be the most quiet Subaru ever.

     

    Wow, that's a first! Were you able to find out why they dropped a Subaru signature?

     

    BTW, thanks for all the reporting, juice and Bob!

     

    Ken
  • imagesandwordsimagesandwords Member Posts: 26
    If you just want a decent AWD system, VSC, leather, 7 passenger seating (real 7-passenger), split folding seats, then you cant beat my Sienna XLE AWD leather (non-Limited) for $32k street price.

     

    BUT if you want the looks of an SUV and can pay a small premium the Subaru looks pretty interesting.

     

    Its difficult to tell how big/small it is. Is it Highlander or MDX or Pilot size? I heard it was around 4200lbs so its not all that big (relative).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2132273475

     

    OK, I have to explain each pic, they were all taken for a reason. I will try to be brief but I also wanted to be complete.

     

    Photo #1 - room for feet under 2nd row seat, and I'm a size 11/12. Note also the top tether anchor for kid seats, it has all 5.

     

    2 - DVD is huge and loads easily. 2 wireless headphones and wireless remote std. Vents for dual A/C, std on 7 seater.

     

    3 - aux inputs and 12 volt outlet for nintendo or iPod located in 3rd row area.

     

    4 - surprise! Little window in A-pillar.

     

    5 - wiper de-icers (Honda owners - make sure you have a fresh ice scraper!)

     

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    I completely agree. honda interior quality is cheesy. Also, MDX suspension is not even as good as my 01 20k OB. Yes, i have driven both.

     

    We don't even need to see in person. Just go to RX, MDX or pilot websites, compare the interiors to those of Subdriven.com pictures. It makes a difference. Tribeca is done fantastically logical.

     

    My wife reiterated yesterday that she was shocked to see that premium is written all over Tribeca !!!!!! She said, for the first time, Subaru has not disappointed with somthing. Tribeca has everything she needs.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sienna is awesome so I won't even rebut that argument. That's what we might end up in if we can't afford what I really want - a loaded B9.

     

    Photo 6 - mirror breaks away, turn signal like Legacy.

     

    7 - jack storage plus two bins. The Pilot loses this space for the 3rd row headrests since you must remove those to fold the seat.

     

    8 - moonroof is about 17" x 30", if I had to guess. Sorry we forgot to measure.

     

    9 - just one sunglasses holder. Forester has 2.

     

    10 - velvet-lined glove box is not that big.

     

    11 - lit vanity mirror plus extension.

     

    Just thought of something else - the air filtration filter is in the engine bay and easily serviceable now.

     

    12 - arm rest is wide enough for two, but just barely. Knob is for lumbar support, both seats have it.

     

    13 - back seat slides 8", pic shows all the way back and all the way forward. They also recline.

     

    14 - front row foot room is good, my heels cannot reach the floor fully extended. 30" inseam.

     

    15 - Nav screen can show movies while in Park.

     

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    16 - neat cup holder can hold 2 cups plus 2 juice boxes or cell phone and PDA. I would use this for sure. Also note the Sportshift.

     

    17 - map pockets, bottle holder in door. Left side of 2nd row is all the way forward, right side is in the middle position. So it could still be moved back 4 more inches.

     

    18 - closer view of bottle holder

     

    19 - 9" DVD

     

    20 - Nav has vents under it

     

    21 - front leg room legs fully extended. Look how far my knees are from the dash. In a CR-V my shins touch the dash in this position!

     

    22 - Dave explaining features

     

    23 - armrest, leg room with 2nd row all the way back.

     

    24 - front seat.

     

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    25 - slight angle when all seats folded

     

    26 - preliminary specs (not gospel)

     

    27 - parking brake is floor-mounted. Dead pedal has two fasteners and is rubberized. Note some less sporting competitors don't even have dead pedals, LOL

     

    28 - door jamb, blurry (sorry)

     

    29 - DVD for Nav load here, under driver seat

     

    30 - Candeline in 2nd row with front seat all the way back and reclined a lot, or "sitting behind Shaq"

     

    31 - I'm magic and I made her disappear!

     

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    NO NEED TO GO IN PERSON, JUST COMPARE THESE PICTURES, CAN'T BELIEVE PEOPLE ARGUE TRIBECA SHOULD COMPETE WITH PILOT, SEE BELOW.

     

    lexus

    http://www.lexus.com/models/rx/gallery_interior_photos.html

     

    acura

    http://www.acura.com/models/model_gallery_view.asp?module=mdx

     

    pilot (what a joke !)

    http://automobiles.honda.com/models/interior_gallery.asp?ModelNam- e=Pilot

     

    tribeca

    http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/Temp/Sites/1571/041106_097_coc- kpit.jpg
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