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Comments
Bob
This has to be the only site where prices seems to be of no object for most members.
Even with a possible price that can go up to 40k, most forum members are eager to have more features that would boost the price further! Oh well it's only money, right?
Hence my theory that the $34K Tribeca is not a direct upgrade for a $34K Outback. Did anybody really expect a 7 seater limited for 34K?
But until we see firm numbers and features - we're all blowing smoke.
Yes they are called a Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander and Nissan Pathfinder! Is that not the competition? Or should the competition be redefined as a Lexus, Infiniti and Acura! Gimme a Break!!!!
"But until we see firm numbers and features - we're all blowing smoke"
After seeing the expected price, most the smoke is coming out of my ears
At the current 1.5 premium over the US prices (while the exchange rate is only about 1.22), that would make this car start at $51K and top out at $60K+. That's the same price range as the RX-330.
Given that Lexus is the #1 rated brand in Canada for quality, reliabilty, and service, and Subaru Canada is only rated average for quality and reliability and below average for service, this csr will not sell up here at those prices. Doesn''t matter how nice and well equipped, it will not sell very well at all.
Subaru will really need to up their service game if they want to start attracting buyers in that price range. But that would take years to accomplish.
Sly
I suspect, however, neither will be as fun to drive as the Tribeca. Neither have SportShift. Neither have as sophisticated an AWD system as the Tribeca. I would assume both have a higher center of gravity than the Tribeca.
The 3rd-row seat on the Highlander is an afterthought. There's very little room there, but even worse, it does not have a split-fold feature.
Bob
As for the "as sophisticated an AWD system" - do most buyers really care? I think not.
I'd like to see the Tribeca do well - the more choices we have, the better. The face has grown on me. But feature wise, it's gotta have more to differentiate itself.
Sduford, I guess you are well aware that Canadian dealerships will not be too eager to pass on their foreign exchange profits to their customers(I heard that for most car companies the dealer costs are quoted in US$ not CDN$ )
So keep that in mind when you visit your friendly local dealer and negotiate a price(whether it will be Subaru or not)
The Tribeca can do very well! In fact I want it in my garage. BUT it all depends on Price.
If Subaru prices its B9 as expected from prior posts, it will be a low volume niche vehicle catered to a Core of Subaru devotees. In the beginning it will sell wonderfully, but after 2 years when all the Subaru fans have one in their garage it's sales will go downhill.
If priced competitively against Toyota/Honda(or any other marque)---the B9 can become a high volume seller with a lot of former Honda/Toyota owners becoming Subaru converts.
A lot of those features could be added without taking the price to $10k. Obviously, new trannys and suspensions would be costly, but I am sure that Subaru has most of the other items sitting in the parts bin somewhere. I am really disappointed that they didn't add HID and a telescoping steering wheel. My two biggest complaints about my 01 OB VDC are the lack of versatility in terms of seat position and the mediocre headlights. I travel to western MD/PA quite a bit and there are quite a number of critters that always seem to want to cross the road in front of the OB at night. Having HID would be a definite plus. I also share your concern that Subaru is moving away from its outdoorsy image. It seems to me that the competition for the Tribeca are the RX 330 and MDX. The Pilots and SUVs of their ilk offer better value if the emphasis is placed on function, i.e., seating/cargo capacity and price.
Oh, since I mentioned the OB, here is a problem that I am grappling with right now. The speedometer and tachometer are caput. The proposed solution is to add a new circuit plate, but the folks at the dealership say that this will zero out the odometer, thereby destroying the re-sale value of the car. It's just over 3 1/2 years old and has 30k miles on it. I hope that someone--either at Subaru or the dealership--can come up with a better solution.
Bill
John
It's due to be replaced, and I'm sure it will have SH-AWD, as the concept RD-X has that feature; but we're talking about vehicles we know about.
As for the "as sophisticated an AWD system" - do most buyers really care? I think not.
Not sure I agree with that. As more and more vehicles show up with AWD, there's bound to be comparisons as to which offers the best system, just like there have always been debates over the best type of engine.
Bob
Bob
But only among enthusiasts - not the general market.
Oh I know that, but if you add in our complete wish list, it could.
Subaru is constantly weighing price vs. content. They did pretty good with this vehicle, but it's not perfect, and I know that. I wish it had more from the get go. I'm more concerned about their shift away from outdoorsy stuff/image, frankly.
Bob
I think the telescoping wheel could be a problem- My wife always had problems fitting behind the wheel of my SUVs since she's so short. It always made me uncomfortable that she was so close to the wheel.
I'm not sure how Subaru is going to go "premium" without a premium price. It cannot go head to head with Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans and expect to be "premium". It has to be better and less expensive than Acuras, Lexus, and Infiniti. And while it seems really nice, it doesn't have the power to play in that league, IMHO.
In the sedan market, we all pay a premium to drive a Subie. But in the SUV market, where everything is AWD, why should people pay that premium to drive a Subie?
I think the car needs more power, needs to be loaded (like the premium brands) and come out several thousand less. Then it might get a foothold in the market.
Otherwise, it's just an overpriced Subie playing 'dress up'.
tom
I'd ask for power pedals instead - it allows the seat to be further back from the wheel which is the real danger with airbags.
I agree.
Bob
I have to agree that just from what I have heard so far, the Tribecca is moving more towards a city vehicle, rather than an outdoors type. Part of the appeal of Subaru is it's ability to take it offroad, when wanted. I know I have done that a couple of times with my OBW, and it is something I want in my next Subaru.
With that said, if they made a "Telluride" version as earlier suggested, that would definitely appeal to me. As someone who doesn't really need a 7 passenger vehicle at this time, the Tribecca is intriguing.
Also, for your list of what is wanted - please add having the power to windows/accessories stay on for 30 sec. after the key is removed. That is something that I have wished for several times. It is aslo something most "premium" brands seem to offer.
Mark
Edit: did the SVX have a tele wheel?
tom
Heck - Honda Accords have had that since at least 1991.
-Jay
-Dan-
That was also discussed with Dave, the Brand Manager. I forgot to mention it here, but thanks for reminding.
Bob
As I said earlier, Subaru is not perceived as a quality brand up here and their service is pretty lame. People buy Subarus because of their ruggedness, value, and all-weather capability.
If they try to compete with the likes of Lexus, Acura and Volvo it will be a total failure. I would bet money on that.
-Joe
Subaru sales were 16,311 up 12.1% for 2004
According to newswire.ca:
sales are expected to be up slightly to 1.56 million vehicles in 2005
Close enough for our WAG ciphering!!
Key: don't wait too many years or the wide open door will be filled with competitive vehicles. Note, the new Explorer platform will likely be put on the SportTrac, making two mid-size Baja type vehicles available.
John
Remember, the base Lexus RX has cloth and none of that stuff. It's all options, expensive options.
3 kids in 2nd row? It's not as wide as the Pilot, but it's wider than the RX. The cargo area is 2-3" wider than the RX, but the Pilot is a few inches wider still.
Windows have frames, yes. It might be the most quiet Subaru ever.
Footwells cramped? No. Subaru was very smart - both the first and 2nd row seats are mounted off the ground enough that you have room for sneaker under both rows. This buys you extra space and is very smart.
In fact, the Legacy lacks this, so the 2nd row of the Tribeca is much more comfy, especially the middle seat. The "hump" in the middle is also small, much smaller than the one in my Forester.
As to Ken's question, how does it feel sitting inside? You feel like a VIP. Rich. Definitely. This is not your average interior.
Go to an MDX and you suddenly feel inadequate, or at least outdated.
Windows are huge - good observation. Ginormous. The door opens real wide to let you in, ingress/egress is excellent. Hip point on seats is about where the Forester is, which I love. It is not as high a throne as the LR3.
Moonroof is small, because the DVD gets in the way.
Payload was over 1000 lbs, I think 1070 or so? Bob?
Models with the DVD option are iPod ready. Rumors have it next year all models will have Aux inputs.
I'm still catching up, I'm on post 791.
-juice
But it doesn't really exist does it??!!
Leaving space for feet to fit under the seats is smart? Duh, I've never had a car that didn't do that, except for my OBXT. NOT doing that is NOT smart. Doing it is normal.
tom
Recline - yes, both 2nd and 3rd row seats recline. That helps, that and the foot space under the seats.
The Nissan Pathfinder is bigger but the 3rd row is BOLT-UPRIGHT and that made it simply uninhabitable.
Many competitors had high floors and that also kills the 3rd row.
Subaru beat 'em in both areas, but I still won't call it roomy.
LCD size is 9", it's huge. All competitors have 7" or less screens, they look puny next to the Subie's. The new Odyssey has a 9" screen but I think it's the only vehicle in the industry to match the Tribeca there.
Actually, in park, with both screens playing the video, it was really cool, very high-tech. People gathered to watch the rally video they put on the two screens.
We asked about retained accessory power, one response (or excuse depending upon your angle) was that they said many owners like the auto-off headlight feature. You remove the key and the lights go off so your battery never dies. That might have had some influence, that and containing the costs.
-juice
Pilot is fine for the average Joe, sure, 7" DVD means you only have to squint a little. LOL
But seriously, the Pilot owner's boss will trade in his MDX for a Tribeca.
It is much, much nicer. Like a TSX is to a Civic. No kidding.
Sure, Honda has good assembly quality but the materials used are pretty pedestrian next to the Subaru, and the design is just plain bland.
The MDX has the nicer materials but still loses out on the design side.
I bet the next generation MDX will have a similar interior. Seriously, the Tribeca's interior looks more like the TSX', done taller for an SUV.
Having said that, they still had to beat Lexus/Acura and Volvo in price, so they will. A loaded Tribeca will cost about what a stripped model from those makes will cost.
In essence it falls inbetween the two segments. Call it premium mainstream or near-near-luxury or whatever you may.
-juice
I say the latter. Honda puts a little timer on the headlights for auto-off after the key is removed. Retained power should be for closing windows, sunroof, et al.
I think the feature is sitting in a warehouse next to the factory tinted windows for the Outback.
Ford showed that very concept at the show. An IRS Sport Trac based on the new Explorer.
Payload was over 1100 pounds.
Bob
It's funny, I think Honda is granted God status by a lot of people. If you have not sat in or driven a Pilot lately, please do. It is not perfect by any means. Puh-lease.
Size is good, width and room are class-leading, at least for car-based SUVs. Kudos. Pricing is competitive, too. If you shop for square-foot-per-dollar, stop here and go buy your Honda. Or the Durango for that matter.
But go drive one. Handling is the opposite of sporty, in fact I think the Odyssey actually has a better ride/handling balance.
Materials are mostly hard plastics, some of them shiny. Accord had higher quality switches and materials. The overall design is unimaginative.
The powertrain everyone here thinks is perfect is far from, it's too weak to tow anything at all without two coolers - oil and power steering, both required and included with the very expensive tow package. Transmission problems are still common.
No Sportshift. FWD 99% of the time. 7" DVD looks small after you've seen Subaru's. And at least back when I looked you could get DVD or Nav, but not both.
The one I drove back then had several quality issues, and even the pre-production Tribeca did not.
Here was my review for the 2004:
ateixeira, "Town Hall Test Drive Team" #12, 24 Jun 2003 2:23 pm
Note the 2nd row now slides so they fixed the leg room issue.
If you want a soft, practical SUV for a value price and don't mind the no frills ambience, be my guest.
-juice
In essence it falls inbetween the two segments. Call it premium mainstream or near-near-luxury or whatever you may."
Very, very smart on Subaru's part, IMHO.
Oh- and, FWIW, - sent the link via email to the Tribeca website to 5 friends (non-car types) who love our Legacy- their comments were all very similar, I'll use one to represent all 5 "OMG the Subaru is BUTT ugly! Everything looks fine till you get to the ugliest front since the Pontiac Aztec! Boo Hiss!"
3 males, 2 female, all my age (23).
I told them they need to see it in person, and it will grow on them.... I'd like to believe this myself.
~alpha
One thing I mentioned is that there is not much of a spread from a base model to a loaded one. When you look at some mid-sizers, they start at $24k and go all the way up to $42k.
Limited resources probably forced them to stick to the middle of the segment. So it's funny but they might have ended up there because they had to.
-juice
Wow, that's a first! Were you able to find out why they dropped a Subaru signature?
BTW, thanks for all the reporting, juice and Bob!
Ken
BUT if you want the looks of an SUV and can pay a small premium the Subaru looks pretty interesting.
Its difficult to tell how big/small it is. Is it Highlander or MDX or Pilot size? I heard it was around 4200lbs so its not all that big (relative).
OK, I have to explain each pic, they were all taken for a reason. I will try to be brief but I also wanted to be complete.
Photo #1 - room for feet under 2nd row seat, and I'm a size 11/12. Note also the top tether anchor for kid seats, it has all 5.
2 - DVD is huge and loads easily. 2 wireless headphones and wireless remote std. Vents for dual A/C, std on 7 seater.
3 - aux inputs and 12 volt outlet for nintendo or iPod located in 3rd row area.
4 - surprise! Little window in A-pillar.
5 - wiper de-icers (Honda owners - make sure you have a fresh ice scraper!)
-juice
We don't even need to see in person. Just go to RX, MDX or pilot websites, compare the interiors to those of Subdriven.com pictures. It makes a difference. Tribeca is done fantastically logical.
My wife reiterated yesterday that she was shocked to see that premium is written all over Tribeca !!!!!! She said, for the first time, Subaru has not disappointed with somthing. Tribeca has everything she needs.
Photo 6 - mirror breaks away, turn signal like Legacy.
7 - jack storage plus two bins. The Pilot loses this space for the 3rd row headrests since you must remove those to fold the seat.
8 - moonroof is about 17" x 30", if I had to guess. Sorry we forgot to measure.
9 - just one sunglasses holder. Forester has 2.
10 - velvet-lined glove box is not that big.
11 - lit vanity mirror plus extension.
Just thought of something else - the air filtration filter is in the engine bay and easily serviceable now.
12 - arm rest is wide enough for two, but just barely. Knob is for lumbar support, both seats have it.
13 - back seat slides 8", pic shows all the way back and all the way forward. They also recline.
14 - front row foot room is good, my heels cannot reach the floor fully extended. 30" inseam.
15 - Nav screen can show movies while in Park.
-juice
17 - map pockets, bottle holder in door. Left side of 2nd row is all the way forward, right side is in the middle position. So it could still be moved back 4 more inches.
18 - closer view of bottle holder
19 - 9" DVD
20 - Nav has vents under it
21 - front leg room legs fully extended. Look how far my knees are from the dash. In a CR-V my shins touch the dash in this position!
22 - Dave explaining features
23 - armrest, leg room with 2nd row all the way back.
24 - front seat.
-juice
26 - preliminary specs (not gospel)
27 - parking brake is floor-mounted. Dead pedal has two fasteners and is rubberized. Note some less sporting competitors don't even have dead pedals, LOL
28 - door jamb, blurry (sorry)
29 - DVD for Nav load here, under driver seat
30 - Candeline in 2nd row with front seat all the way back and reclined a lot, or "sitting behind Shaq"
31 - I'm magic and I made her disappear!
-juice
lexus
http://www.lexus.com/models/rx/gallery_interior_photos.html
acura
http://www.acura.com/models/model_gallery_view.asp?module=mdx
pilot (what a joke !)
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/interior_gallery.asp?ModelNam- e=Pilot
tribeca
http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/Temp/Sites/1571/041106_097_coc- kpit.jpg