Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

I think the mere fact that someone calls a used car "perfect" is already a tip off that disappointment is in the wings.

ghulet

...I like the orange '73, especially for $4500, though their claims of 'no rust' (does this include the floors and frame?) will also likely be met with disappointment.

ghulet

Yeah, the seller is a stroke, for sure (what the hell does 'I sold the car three times already' mean--why were you foolish enough to take deposits on three separate occasions?), but unless there's something nasty I don't see, it still seems like a bargain at $4k....it probably is hiding a bit of rust (it's gold, after all), it needs the top mechanism and back window repaired (that can't cost more than $1000, even professionally, right?) and I'd definitely find some hubcaps. I like that it's had lots of maintenance/mechanicals done recently and it's certainly presentable. We're in the process of buying a house, and I'll finally have a garage, unfortunately I can't spare $4k right now, otherwise I'd consider it, not that I need it at all....oh, well.

fintail

Clean big bird

Mr_Shiftright

The price seems just about right for a "fair" condition car, which this seems to be. So I'd say "market correct", maybe maybe a little bargain, it depends. This is not a highly sought after year and model. You could let it go without feeling like you missed some great deal.

fintail

Cheapest Allante I've seen

xwesx

I am not sure why anyone would even bother posting a sale ad online without being ready to post some photos. I mean, come on, do you really want to sell it, because the attempt is, at best, half-hearted and will likely prove to be fruitless.

Mr_Shiftright

If an Allante doesn't have the Northstar engine, it isn't worth very much (although I wonder why anyone thinks early Northstar engines are such great things, anyway... :confuse: )

andre1969

Did the Allante go directly from the 4.1 V-8 to the Northstar in its final year, or did it upgrade through the 4.5 and 4.9 iterations of that engine like the other Caddies did? It might just be a case of the Northstar version being desireable simply by virtue of the other versions being so UN-desireable?

Mr_Shiftright

I think you're quite right about that...the Northstar appeared I think just one year 1993 in the Allante and it was desirable because the other engines were so lame. Remember this car was touted to compete with the 560SL, which was in fact a pretty darn quick car in its day and would humiliate the early Allante in just about every way possible. At least the Northstar made the race better than a cruel hoax.

Now a 1993 Allante for $2,500 would be great. It's no 560SL but it was pleasant enough.

fintail

Yeah, the price is a little crazy, but I think it's really pretty cool

fintail

Rare color for a 123...not too greedy a price, could be worthy with negotiation

Nice looking survivor

Mr_Shiftright

Don't you love ads like this:

W123---ever notice how these 300Ds with the engines that "can go 500,000 miles" always seem to have replacement engines or heads at 200,000?

Now why IS that?

Anyway, might be a decent buy although the windshield being cracked and bad power antenna could run up to $350 or so....I'd offer $2,000 if it ran great and the body was clean and paint shiny. Also, we'll have to play with the climate controls....

65 Galaxie -- what really annoys me is that people get their time periods mixed up----nobody wore straw hats or "flapper dresses" in the 1930s (should be 20s) and nobody had fuzzy dice or greasy hair in the 1960s (should be 50s). Car people are ALWAYS making these mistakes. They should know better you'd think.

fintail

I have seen fuzzy dice in many 60s and even 70s cars. Never cared for myself...although my fintail does have a period bobblehead/nodder figure on the dash.

All that kind of reminds me how people often put wide whites on cars too new for such an accessory. I'll see like a 1970 Galaxie with wide whites...what's that about? IIRC the fintail was one of the last cars using them, offering them through the 1964 model year. My dad's old 68 Fairlane had like 2" whitewalls the previous old codger owner installed...the car was white so it almost worked, but it bugged me just a little.

I've never seen a Buick wagon like this

This is kinda sad...could have been pretty cool

andre1969

on the rearview mirror of cars is also something that people did in the 90's with just about any old car, so I guess you could look at it that way. :P I have to confess that I have a pair of fuzzy dice hanging from the rearview mirror of my '67 Catalina. Plus a garter belt. A coworker gave them to me, so I felt obligated to hang them up for her. Um, that's the dice I'm talking about, NOT the garter belt! :surprise:

fintail

Someone must have gone to some effort to preserve this...I don't know why

Seems like a lot of car for the money, but the cars in the pic don't appear to be the same - different wheels

Not cheap fintail, but it looks nice

I don't think this is really a hardtop...notice how the B pillar is hidden, or looks too thick

andre1969

is definitely a 2-door sedan. I think sometimes people confuse the term hardtop. They just think soft-top versus hard-top. And then they get the term "soft-top" mixed up. Some people think if it's not a convertible, it's automatically a hard-top. Which technically I guess it is...as it does have a hard top. And then there's people who think "soft-top" means vinyl roof. So if it doesn't have a vinyl roof it's a hard-top. And in a twisted way they're right. Smack your hand on a car without a vinyl roof, versus one with a vinyl roof, and it'll hurt a lot more. At least, I guess it will. Never smacked a car on the roof, myself. I did kick my Dart once or twice, though. :shades:

jrosasmc

What do you make of this supposedly original '68 Volvo 122?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volvo-1968-Volvo-122-All-Original-Well-kept-Calif- ornia-Car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6458QQihZ013QQitemZ230013308321QQrdZ1

p.s. Why is the shifter very long, just like a truck's?

fintail

I think the shifters were that way in old Volvos. I've seen another like that.

On the 122 note, I saw a very nice and obviously restored 122 wagon today. It was dark green and had sporty wheels on it.

fintail

Maybe the worst fintail I've ever seen..wrong on the model, too

Another lovely from the same guy

Classy

gsemike

At least he wants little money for those heaps. How many ads have been posted here before where somebody is looking for $500 or a grand for that type of stuff.

I can't imagine what would be good on those, but if it had something good that you needed... presto

Mr_Shiftright

Looks like a cobbled up piece of crap to me. Was that engine used as a boat anchor? And the Weber carb is going to suck gas---why people get rid of the SUs is beyond me---they are so much better for the car than the Weber.

The power brake doesn't work, and that is VERY expensive and difficult to repair---the car won't stop worth a damn without power brakes.

And then we have rust in the doors.

Hell you can just go buy a clean nice one for $4,000 and save yourself the headache of trying to sort out this mess.

fintail

Small trim pieces and glass would be the most productive. I'd offer $100 for the pair.

fintail

Doesn't look like the worst old thing

I've heard of this special edition...doubtful it adds much value

It was probably worth as much or more 20-25 years ago

lilengineerboy

Who writes these ads? You think they would read a few others and get a good idea what should be there. Year, make, model, trim level, mileage, engine type/size, transmission type/speeds, and options. Yeah its great you don't want to haggle on your 35 year old 12 mpg car, but could you please tell us what it is?
At least the grammatical structure of the ads seems to be improving. It kills me when I read the adds for bicycles and they only say how many gears it has and a price (as opposed to SIZE, make, age, etc). Pretty much means it came from k-mart to me. If your selling something at least figure out how to describe it, or if you really don't care that much about it, then don't whine about your price.

andre1969

that '71 Skylark has a Buick 350-2bbl V-8 hooked up to a THM350 3-speed automatic but yeah, would it be so hard to actually SAY that?! Now on the flip side, it could have a 250 inline-6 under the hood mated to a Powerglide 2-speed!

Or it could have a 350-4bbl, or one of two 455's. I think one was a 2-bbl, because 315 gross hp out of a 455 sounds pretty tame. But yeah, at least SAY what engine it has!

Mr_Shiftright

That Model A 4door is a good buy if it's as nice as it looks. The 4-doors have more room for the driver, whereas the two doors and roadsters are hell to drive if you're over 5' 9". Also, if this car has only 3 owners, chances are it's not the typical Model A Ford that has parts from 12 different cars on it + aftermarket items galore.

Someone should snatch that car, it's worth it.

T-Bird
WTH is a Monaco edition? Well it's just a regular T-Bird Landau coupe with a certain color scheme and a few extra trim pieces, alleged a replica of the car given to Grace Kelly by Lee Iacocca, as if she didn't get enough presents already for gawd's sake. 2,000 were made. The claim of 20-30% extra value sounds like nonsense to me. I mean, who cares? It takes about 20 minutes to explain the car, which is kind of a pathetic form of fame if you ask me.

I saw that one failed to meet reserve in eBay by 50%---top bid was $9,000 and change and that sounds more than fair to me. (Seller was asking $19K, another seller was asking $31K!!!). Needless to say, they still own them....

If special editions have serious hardware that you can't buy on a regular model, well that often counts for something...you know, like a Boss 302 or an RS/SS Camaro. But a couple of twinkie upholstery bits----nah, I don't think so.

fintail

I agree with all that. I have even less faith in humanity after discovering craigslist. So many ads don't state mileage, mechanical details, don't have pics, etc. And I've seen many that don't state the year! Especially on modern cars that look newer than they are - aka the owner is ashamed to admit the car is 10 years old. All of this usually means the seller is hiding something. The worst ads don't state the price. It's not ebay, people.

Bad grammar and spelling are still very common...even spelling the name of the car incorrectly. It's not a typo when it is repeated through the ad.

fintail

Yeah, I like the looks of that Model A. It looks like it has the quail hood ornament too, which is a nice touch. I remember back when I was maybe 7-10 years old a friend of my dad's had a Model A coupe, and I very much wanted my dad to get something similar, even if it was just a boring 2 door sedan. He didn't want anything so old...I remember he got kind of close to buying a showroom new-looking 50 Chevy fastback, but my mother vetoed every old car attempt. After a few years of that he just went and bought a few cars anyway...and that didn't help the marriage lol

qbrozen

Here's another one of these, "This car only needs a minor repair." Yeah? So fix it!

Don't see too many spitfires in this condition. I'm not sure its worth that much even for concours, however.

All show and no go. To put GTO badges on this is worthy of a lynching.

oooo... look at all this I'm including in the price ... which I'm keeping a secret. And thank GOD he's selling rims with the car. I just hate buying a vehicle that's on blocks.

lemmer

BIMMER - I've given up on giving consideration to any car that needs a 'minor' repair, particularly one that prevents a decent test drive. There is that tiny little chance that you might fix the clutch and then find that maybe the transmission ain't so great either, or maybe the rear end needs replacing, or maybe you see once the car is rolling that the speedometer doesn't work, or about a million other things. If I am selling a car for $1000 or less, I would have no qualms saying as-is, where-is, you tow it away. I am surely not going to represent it as a daily driver.

SPITFIRE - The more I see high-priced Fiat, MG, and Triumph convertibles, the more I want a Miata.

PONTIAC - I can't figure why any car like this still has a 6-cylinder in it. The first time any little thing went wrong with it, I would use that as an excuse to put in a 800 hp crate engine (or at least a used 350 from a junkyard).

MB - I am the only person left who remembers when rims referred to the 'rim' of the wheel rather than the entire wheel? And why is this guy giving us his collection of home electronic goods along with his secretly priced car?

fintail

A more or less 10 year old V12 car with 100K on it, and a trunkload of likely stolen eletronics to boot. Sign me up!

A friend of mine in high school had a Spitfire...it had most of a top, but no side windows. Not good in the rain and cold.

Mr_Shiftright

SPITFIRE -- I wouldn't mind having that car for about one-half the price. I don't know if it's worth $10K either....maybe...I guess...sorta...we'll see....but again, it has "Weber's disease"....well maybe if he has a hot cam in there and really worked over the head, the Weber might not over-carburate it so much.

LEMANS CONVERTIBLE-- I just appraised a 1965, original owner, 326 with high output 285 HP, factory 4-speed, all documentation from new, and clean clean origina...I thought it was worth at least $25,000. If it were a GTO, it would be worth double that, crazy huh?

lemmer

Yellow Alfa project. Maybe its time is up.

According to this guy, his '91 Legend is appreciating. I really, really don't think so.

RX-7 Turbo II that basically needs everything. Might as well use it as a beater because I am not sure there is anything on it nice enough to even part it out.

Mr_Shiftright

1999 Camaro -- guy offered me this car for $1,000. Runs fine, has engine light on, some broken handles, oxidized black paint.

I drove it and it was fast, but my god, the build quality on these cars is really atrocious.

Then I checked Edmunds TMV value---these cars aren't worth very much even in nice shape.

Makes me realize why they discontinued it.

andre1969

that '66 LeMans is probably about a 15 second car. Umm, that's a 15 second 0-60...NOT a 15 second quarter mile! How slow does a car have to be to get the quarter mile to come up BEFORE the 60 mph mark? I know 15 seconds is still kinda far away, because I remember CR testing a '68 Dart slant six, and they got 0-60 in 14 seconds and the quarter mile in 19 seconds @ 72 mph. Interestingly, they also tested a '67 Valiant with a quicker rear (2.94:1 compared to 2.76:1) and got 0-60 in 13 seconds, but the quarter mile still came up around 19 seconds @ around 72 mph. So does that mean the Valiant was actually a bit SLOWER from 60-72 mph than that Dart was? That's one correlation that could confuse me sometimes.

fintail

Good train wreck

Not a car, but this gave me a big laugh

ghulet

Who the hell would dump $1800 into an '82 Eldorado diesel, especially one in not-so-great condition? Were they confusing this with a Mercedes diesel (not that I'd put $1800 into one of those this age either, at least not expecting or needing a primarily 'reliable' car). I don't know what's in the water up in WA, but you guys are nuts for diesels, apparently. Seller states 'it runs and drives', but apparently not far enough to keep the neighbors or the police off his case (you mean people get peeved when you park your rusty, clackety beater backwards on the street?). Not too convincing.

fintail

People here are insane about diesels. The whole biodiesel thing has struck a chord with the old hippies (and their kids) here. All the time I see beater 123s where the joker wants 3-5K for it, even more for wagons. These cars are far from mint, or even nice.

steine13

Personally, I think it's C&D with their story "Battle of the Diesel Beaters" a few issues back. Maybe they started a trend...?

If you haven't read it, do. It's pretty funny.

-Mathias

qbrozen

wow! I can't believe this guy has an RX7 that needs to be put down and he thinks its worth $2500??!

good god, man! Did you even read your own description? It sounds like a post mortem, not a sales pitch. And some of the lines are really priceless.

it still needs the interior panels replaced to really be perfect

wait a sec! Ain't this the same car that you just finished describing as having most body panels creased or dented and the wiring worked over by Tim The Toolman?? Yet it will be "perfect" with just some new interior panels!

The ac will work but the blower motor is bad. With a new motor, a belt for the ac condenser and some refrigerant it would work fine.

HUH?? The AC doesn't even have a belt and you can claim it would work with just a blower motor? I gots to get me some of those crystal ball diagnostic skills!!

qbrozen

yeah, that was a good one.

They went ahead and sold those on Ebay afterwards. IIRC, they actually made money on at least one of them.

Mr_Shiftright

Man I wouldn't go NEAR those chemicals you need to process used cooking oil into diesel fuel. but maybe the old hippies have enough brain damage already that a little more wouldn't matter...I just love the smell of lye and alcohol in the morning....

Hey, pass that joint and then let's go crank up the 300D and smell the exhaust!

qbrozen

i'm just posting this so we can all laugh at how many miles he claims it has.
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/188808990.html

the guessing game becomes, what number would be in the 100,000 column, if it had one.

qbrozen

THIS is a much better vacationing vehicle.
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/188801132.html

lemmer

How much for a decent Berkeley? 750 lbs seems a little bit small.

'77 911 with a Chevy 305 6-cylinder (that looks suspiciously like a V8 in the pictures). Why not a 350? I am guessing he had a ragged out 911 and an old 305 abandonded in his backyard.

Like new Panoz. Maybe a decent alternative to a Cobra kit car. I wonder how these are perceived as I don't hear much about them. I had a friend who worked in the Panoz automotive empire, and he described their vehicles as Mustangs with slightly worse reliability and much worse build quality - not exactly how the car magazines describe them.

qbrozen

A daily driver??

I didn't know Jersey ran on the metric system.

Here's one of those special editions brit-rover has mentioned. Just what is a "quork"? Must be a british thing.

ummmm.... can AC work and not work at the same time?

lemmer

Is a quork anything like a lepton?

british_rover

Hmhh Great Divide editions aren't all that sought after in my experience. All I ever get calls for are 94-95 LWBs.

Is a quork like a cousin to the sub-atomic particle quark??

andre1969

might be a nice daily driver if you don't care that you're only getting about 15-16 mpg, max.

I kinda like that 1980 Sedan DeVille. Those cushy cloth seats look like they'd be nice and comfy, albeit not that much side bolstering to keep you in place in spirited driving. But then, how spiritedly would you drive one of these?

As for the seller's description of the a/c, I'd take it to mean that the compressor does engage, but it needs freon...which means there's probably a leak somewhere. I guess that's a bit more desireable than having a car with a/c where the compresssor simply doesn't engage at all?