Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

skierx420

My favorite show was the one where Al was going to be on TV because the Dodge was going to make it a Million Miles and Peg backed it out of the Garage and it rolled over and Al starts driving it to make it to the next Million Miles. Does anyone know the approximate make and model of that thing?

stickguy

I like that BMW wagon. I am one of the few people that actually cares for the dark green with tan guts. If that was near me, and checked out, I would but it for sure.

xwesx

I think that BMW is a beautiful car. Those colors are a great combination.

warpfreak

does anyone in here appreciate Cadillac cars?!! The features and upgraded Chassis Engines and Cadillac Seville auto body parts were regenerated. With this, I believe, made Cadillac stay on the business field. I hope now, you'll start to Appreciate Cadillac Cars">link title

qbrozen

Hey, stickguy,
Got one for ya.

Heck, I'm really tempted, but wifey says she doesn't want one quite that old.

qbrozen

This is WAY more tempting!

fortee9er

I used to love those big 1960/70s american luxo-barges and owned four in the years betwween 1988 and 2006:
1966 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham - paid $200 gave to Salvation Army.
1972 Imperial - paid $200. Stolen by the guy where I was parking it.
1975 Buick Electra Ltd gift from friend sold for $1500.
1978 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz. paid $800 sold ten years later for $800.

andre1969

What kind of condition was that '75 Electra in? Was it a 2-door or 4-door? The '75-76 Electra is another guilty pleasure I wouldn't mind owning an example of one day.

Those '69-73 Imperials with the hidden headlights were cool, too.

lemko

Did you catch the article on the 1969-73 big Dodges in the latest edition of "Collectible Automobile?"

Isn't it true they forbid one from entering one of those 1969-73 Imperials in a demolition derby because they'd destroy just about any other make entered? I heard that 1971-76 full-size Chevrolets are excellent demo derby contenders, though I would never dream of entering such a beautiful car in such a destructive sport.

lemko

I'm sure I'm not the only one disturbed by it, but doesn't it make you wince when they crush 1970s American cars in monster truck shows or destroy them in demo derbies? Shoot, I don't want to have to go to a museum to see a 1975 Buick Electra Limited someday.

fintail

Those clamshell wagons are an endangered species today thanks to demo derbies

I remember when I was a kid and I went to my first demo derby, this would have been in the mid 80s. I remember a lot of mid-late 60s material in it, and a 60 Caddy flat top sedan. Even then I was kind of shocked something like that was being ruined.

stickguy

that one actually looks pretty nice, and certainly is reasonable. Assuming, of course, there isn't anything klugy about it.

Icould live with that myself. Not qute sure what the kid would think about it! Just needs a set of alloys.

Now, too bad it is way up in Matawan. If it was close I would go look.

qbrozen

The more I thought about that wagon, the more I thought it may be a scam posting. I emailed the seller, so we'll see.

Remind me again where the heck you are located. I can't seem to remember.

bumpy

The wheels are worth more than the car.

Depreciation.

Probably has 6 billion miles, but it's a Honda.

Last of the lightweight sport coupes.

This one just screams Andremobile.

andre1969

I wonder if the engine in that '85 Grand Prix came out of an older car? The orange-red air cleaner throws me, and while the engine itself appears buried, it looks like there's a bit of orange-red peeking out from behind the a/c compressor. The V-8 in these cars was a Chevy 305-4bbl with 150 hp, but I think by that time, GM was painting them all black.

I kinda like it, but don't care for that two-toning. Or those little wanna-be 1973 GTO "NASA" hood scoops, or whatever they're supposed to be. And I'd rather see a set of Pontiac Rally 2's on that car than the Firebird wheels. And cars with bucket seats and a column shift always annoyed me.

But other than that I like it. :P For some reason, that style of Grand Prix never caught on in the way the Monte did, or especially the Regal and Cutlass Supreme. All personal luxury coupes took a serious hit for 1980. In 1981, GM re-skinned theirs, and sales saw a jump that year. However, by 1982 the Grand Prix was starting to flounder, and sales went downhill pretty fast. In contrast, I think the Regal, Cutlass, and Monte stayed strong through 1985 before tapering off.

Pontiac was starting to change their direction in 1982, going back to performance (or at least the suggestion of it), with new designs such as the Firebird/Trans Am, J2000 Sunbird, and 6000. Meanwhile, big cars were dropped entirely, and the Grand Prix and Bonneville-G (what had been the LeMans) were just sort of left to whither and die.

Considering that Pontiac was supposed to be the performance division, I was always surprised that they never got a high performance version of the Grand Prix, in the Grand National/Monte SS vein. There was the GP 2+2 for 1986-87, which sort of aped the Monte SS Aerocoupe, but it had clumsier styling with a bulkier rear window, and oddly misshapen front-end. And worse, it just used the regular 150 hp 305-4bbl, not the 180 hp unit from the Monte SS.

andre1969

I dunno if this is an indication of just how far these have fallen from grace, but I saw one on Saturday, being used as a taxi cab! Almost hit it, in fact, because it had pulled off to the side of the parking lot, but then as I was just about to pass it, it suddenly pulled out in front of me, to turn around I guess, just begging me to t-bone it.

fintail

The Honda is a scam

oregonboy

I would agree that the Honda Civic SI is a scam.
Bet the posting disappears within an hour. :lemon:

james

fortee9er

The 1975 Electra was a 4 door hardtop. It was in very good mechanical condition condition but the body was showing its age. The paint was showing signs of oxidation and the rear bumper fillers needed to be replaced. I liked driving that car better than the Cadillacs. The Imperial I did not get driven much I spent a lot of time replacing parts and rebuilding the carvburetor but could not get it to run right. I had the car stored in some guys property and he sold the land took my car and never saw him again.

stickguy

Q, I am down near exit 4 of the turnpike (Cherry Hill area). Say abo9tu an hour to where the GSP and NJT meet.

qbrozen

Did you ever go visit that big classic car lot down i believe in that area? Its 2 lots right next to one another. I could probably dig up the name, but maybe you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, lots of overpriced mediocre cars, but fun to browse.

stickguy

Yup, that sounds like Black Tie classics. About 1 mile or so from my house. You are correct that there are a lot of ratty cars that are way overpirced, but some interesting stuff.

At least he doesn't seem to be trying to pass off clones as real valuable models (at least not now!). He just prices his cars like they are real.

But, if you need a V8 stick shift Gremlin, it is the place to go.

qbrozen

That must be it. Name sounds familiar.

I think I posted about my trip there a while back ...

ahhh... here it is.

qbrozen

Am I wrong to be SO TEMPTED by this??

By the way, where is British Rover when you need him? I spotted an '03 Disco SE7 with 51k miles for $12k. Is it still a vehicle to avoid even at that price? I'd imagine so, or else it wouldn't be that cheap, but man that's a lovely vehicle for that kind of money. Then again ... there's that price of gas to worry about ...

qbrozen

'98 M3 vert with only 35k miles for $15k. That thing is barely broken in. How you can drive an M3 so few miles in 10 years is beyond me.

stickguy

You had to do that to me, didn't you? I like the red, and that is a nice car. I drove one back in '01 when I almost got a 525, and man, that thing was a beast. More of a muscle car really.

For the price, I would give it a shot. Seems to have been taken care of. And a lot cheaper (and nicer looking, and no i Drive!) than a new one.

Didn't look at the M3 pics, but I can see the mileage if it is a summer/weekend toy, although in Atlanta it doesn't really have to be taken off the road for the winter.

Mr_Shiftright

'03 Disco -- you have to keep in mind, that when you look at the Reliability Ratings at JD Powers, and you scan down that long, long list....past the VWs, past the Daewoos, past the Kias.....there, holding down the very bottom, you'll find the parents of the Disco.

Can you beat the odds? Can a man fall off a ten story building and land on a mattress being carried by a passing flatbed truck! YES YOU CAN!

I'm a believer in the theory of "calculated" risk, and my calculations suggest that $12K will quickly become $14K, then $16K, then $20K.

GET BEHIND ME SATAN -- the devil came by today and tempted me with a 1993 Porsche 911, 90K miles, black on black, full service records, original owner, looks and runs like a dream. Total cream puff. NOT CHEAP, asking $19K. I am presently pouring cold water on my head and mumbling, "but Shifty, you already have a perfectly reliable car that is totally paid for, and you have no room for anything else"

andre1969

03 Disco -- you have to keep in mind, that when you look at the Reliability Ratings at JD Powers, and you scan down that long, long list....past the VWs, past the Daewoos, past the Kias.....there, holding down the very bottom, you'll find the parents of the Disco.

I wonder if Consumer Reports might be a better indication here? How does the '03 Disco do in their ratings? Now honestly, a lot of CR's ratings categories are so bunched together that the difference between the top three (Much Better than Average, Better than Average, and Average) is pretty much nil. But if you start seeing some little half-black dots (Worse than Average), you might want to worry. And the full-black dots, run away if they're in expensive categories!

Mr_Shiftright

It is my recollection that beating on Rover is a national blood sport here in the USA, and that all the companies which rate reliability have about the same amount of fun with the company.

I have limited personal experience, relegated to 3 close friends who have owned Range Rovers, including one Disco, and the three experiences, for whatever it is worth, were horrifying to say the least.

texases

"How does the '03 Disco do in their ratings?"
Looking at their tables, all Discos have a sea of black balls - lowest reliability, on the majority of all systems/subsystems. Of the 17 areas, 9 were all black (much worse than average), 3 half-black (worse than average), and 4 average, leaving only one (transmission) much better than average. Bleak, to say the least!

edit - my one acquaintance with a Range Rover HSE had the dealer buy it back. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

Looks like someone fired a pump shotgun at the ratings sheet, doesn't it? :sick:

qbrozen

that's pretty much what my wife says about the Disco (mostly because I talked her out of it years ago with the same argument). But then I thought "but, hey, we won't have a car payment if we buy that for $12k cash ... so it becomes a maintenance payment." But that's not exactly a good thing.

A '93 911 with 90k for $19k? That's alot of 9s. Seems like a lot of dough to me for all those miles. Not like I know the market, though.

Here's a nice lookin '89 with half the miles for $26k

qbrozen

Oooooohhhh...
But this one appeals to me more!

Mr_Shiftright

1989s 90s and 1/2 the 91s are bad cars. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.

The low miles in this case are a minus because that means the engine defects probably haven't happened yet.

The '93 price isn't so bad. Should be worth $17.5K. And this is an exceptionally nice car, as in cream puff.

If you drive a 911 about 15,000 miles a year, figure $200 a month for proper maintenance, brake pads, expendables, etc.

qbrozen

HUH? Wait a sec. Didn't we just cover this recently? I thought the '89s were THE model to have???

edit: just searched. the book i have indicates 88-89 as the good years. You indicated something about a specific trans (G50)?

Mr_Shiftright

Oh it depends if the '89 is a Carrera (good) or an '89 C4 (bad). It's a "cusp" kind of thing. I didn't look closely at the '89 ad.

qbrozen

Yeah, that one is just a plain 'ole Carrera. Nice lookin one, too.

Mr_Shiftright

BIG price. Miles aren't so important on a Porsche. These cars are tremendously durable, not like a Ferrari. Higher miles (to a point) don't scare Porsche buyers and low miles do tend to scare them. For one thing, Porsche calipers just love to degrade when idle and being dry sump engine, you've got a lot of oil to degrade over time as well---also those wiggy German electronics. Depends a lot on storage and use. Once a week exercise out of dry storage, good thing. Dead storage for 1-2 years, bad thing.

hpmctorque

"... exceptionally nice car, as in cream puff" would mean a lot to me, especially when it's a one over with complete records. How much better can it get than this? I'd see if there's any wiggle room in the price, if it's a little high after considering age, mileage, and condition, but I'd go for it.

qbrozen

well, that's the difference between a typical porsche owner and me, I would want one as a daily driver (at the moment, anyway), so miles are very important.

oregonboy

GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN -- the devil came by today and tempted me
I prefer the King James translation. It just seems more... biblical somehow. :P

Satan tempts me with cheaper toys. If this is half as nice as the seller implies it seems like a heckava deal. $3k Prelude Si

Looks like a fun, economical commuter that could double as a weekend fun driver. The problem is insurance and parking. There is no-way that I could give up my pickup and I just can't justify owning two vehicles.

james

qbrozen

Oh, thanks for posting that, only because you reminded me of something I saw this morning and wanted to share with the group.

A del sol with Cali plates and 2 people inside. The driver appeared to have his head pressed against the ceiling. May I remind you this is in NJ.

Now, I couldn't help buy wonder how torturous this cross country trip must have been!

british_rover

12k is a fair price for a Disco that is just out of warranty and you can by relatively inexpensive after market warranties for the Disco that will cover just about everything. I recommend CNA as it is what we use here for out of warranty Rovers and they do well in both coverage and labor rates.

I would still want to have that Rover checked out by a Land Rover dealer. I forget what part of NJ you are in but either Paramus or Cherry Hill are my recommendations. I know people at both dealers and they seem to be good guys.

Specifically you need to have the head gaskets checked out on that Rover as that is the weakest link in the drive line. The transmissions are good as they are ZF made four speeds but make sure the X-Case is in good shape. I would bet that if it is a NJ car low range has never been used and the switch gear might be locked up. The rest of the drive line stuff is just normal things for a higher mileage euro car check for any oil leaks etc.

Second weak link on a Disco is the ABS modulator. They are very, very expensive when they go and they will fail no way around it. The part alone is over 1,000 dollars and the labor is big too plus they cannot be rebuilt. There are companies that say they can rebuild them but their success rate is well below 50 percent. If you lose the ABS modulator you still have regular brakes but you lose ABS and traction control.

Lets see next thing is to check out the headliner around the sunroof and make sure there aren't any leaks. That was a common problem but it is fairly easy to fix and as long as someone had it taken care of fairly quickly it doesn't cause any additional problems.

Lets see off the top of my head those are the big things to look out for. Oh also make sure that the pads and ROTORs are newish. Don't let someone tell you that the rotors can be resurfaced and the pads replaced that won't work. You have to replace pads and rotors. Finally what kind of tires does it have? Discos eat Goodyear wranglers for Breakfast, Lunch and dinner so if you have Goodyears don't expect them to last much past 20,000 miles at the most. Micheliens became OEM tires on Discos late in 2003 for the most part. They are much better then the Goodyears. I would also recommend Most BFG tires and pirelli scorpions.

Mr_Shiftright

90K miles is nothing on those cars. The engines are good for 250K and the body integrity and materials are first rate. Why pay a premium price for low miles when you'll drive it a lot and destroy what you paid the premium for?

DISCO -- good tips, I'm going to save that post for my files---thanks!

texases

That Prelude Si does look good, assuming description's accurate. My favorite model, cleaned up the front end, very good handling for a fwd. And you wouldn't have to get a lot of use to justify $3k.

qbrozen

Any idea what CNA charges for a warranty?

lessee... its an '03, so already 5 years old. I don't know what they offer, but I can't imagine they'd go past 7 years total, right? So that's 2 years of coverage for ...

british_rover

Let me check and see. Just have to rummage around in our F&I Office. CNA normally does warranties that run X number of years/mileage from the day you buy the warranty.

qbrozen

90K miles is nothing on those cars. The engines are good for 250K and the body integrity and materials are first rate. Why pay a premium price for low miles when you'll drive it a lot and destroy what you paid the premium for?

Well, I look at it this way ... it depends on how much of a premium. Lessay, as a daily driver, we're talking 15k miles per year. And let's say when you hit that magic 250k, you scrap the car. Sooo.. I've got option A with 90K miles for $19k. That means I get 10.67 years of use at $1780 per year. Then I've got option B for $25k with 45k miles, giving me 13.67 years of use at $1828 per year. So, yeah, you may have a point in this case. BUT ... if they were just $1k closer, it leans slightly in the other direction.

OF course, it also comes down to driving what you like.

But thanks for giving me something to think about. Now I can show my wife "look, hun, a Porsche will only cost me $1800/year (not including maintenance, insurance, tax, finance charges, or track days. void where prohibited. offer not valid in Ill or MA)"

british_rover

Ok so depending on the type of warranty you get, the length(and CNA I think goes up to four years and 48,000 miles for a 2003 Disco with over 50,000 miles I would have to call them to confirm that) and the deductible a service contract could be as low as 2,500 dollars to as high as almost 6,000 dollars for a service contract that mirrors the factory warranty has a low deductible and lasts for four years or 48,000 miles from the day you buy it.

I wouldn't bother with the high dollar 6,000 dollar one.

CNA does have a website but they only sell through dealers none of that shady internet warranty BS.

http://www.cnanational.com/message.htm

qbrozen

OK, so $2500 is about the price I saw back when we were shopping for a Disco II a few years back. Thanks for checking.

We'll see, but I'd say its probably unlikely. The mileage and added worry probably aren't worth it. Not to mention, when all is said and done, that $12k truck is now $15k-$16k (hey, ain't that what shifty said?).

I think we'll stick with our used volvo wagon idea for the wife.

Meanwhile, I'll keep drooling over porsches and bimmers.

However .... there's always THIS.

Of course, then I think "heck, for $6k more, I could have that beautiful 989!"

*sigh* my next car decision is just not going to be an easy one.