Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I think he bought one of these :P

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  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Yeah, what year is your new Subie, and what model is it? You must be loving it!

    It's also a good thing the vehicle was made a-okay before you took ownership of it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Aieee! (Blinding himself with hot pokers!).

    No, thank heavens, it's not the Subaru Cheese Wedge.

    Mine is a '97 Outback AWD with the 2.5 motor and 5-speed manual trans. Odometer says 130K, but all the work was done at 124K.

    It isn't as light and agile as the xA but much more sure-footed and quieter on the highway. Also no squeaks or rattles, which I hate. For now I have to have just one vehicle, so the Subaru seems like a good all-around compromise.

    it's not sexy and not particulary fast, but to be honest, giving me a 400 HP car is like handing a revolver to a baby. I'm better off this way, especially as night vision and reflexes decline with age (sigh). But I do hope to add a sportier car to the stable before long, probably a two-seater. Or I might save up for a slightly used EVO if I can find one in the right color and without the silly wing. 4 doors + fun!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My brother in-law has a 2000 Mercedes-Benz S430. I think just one of those problems is going to cost big bucks - namely the suspension. I remember other people having problems with the ride control in their 1994 Cadillac DeVilles and finding out that one strut was $500 minus labor. So, that $2,000 just for four struts if they all need replacing. I'd at least double that figure for a Mercedes. How did he get a bowed fender? Can't say the frame is bent as the car is a unit body.

    Eeeek! He still owes $16K on an 8 year-old car? Where did he get it, one of those BHPH lots that sell off-warranty luxury cars in marginal neighborhoods? Good God, those places are only there to trap the poor into living beyond their means! "Sorry, honey! You're going to have to try to hold off the landlord for another week 'cause I gotta get the Airmatic fixed on my ride!"
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I think an airmatic failure like that will run a good 3 grand, maybe a little more. You can actually see the car in the pics is leaning a little towards the passenger side - a common failure. I think this problem is primarily in the 2000-2002 cars. The bowed fender is probably from the car being driven on the failed suspension.

    Those cars have depreciated a lot in the past few years, so he could have just been in a long term plan and hasn't knocked it down enough. He probably paid 35K for it 3 or so years ago on an 84 month contract with nothing down, and is now stuck. Seeing as one with no needs at all shouldn't really be more than 20K, the neglected car is a horrible idea.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I notice I have less road rage when I drive a slower car :P

    If the car is nice, you could probably take it to a place where those are in high demand (like Seattle) and get most of your money back when you tire of it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Good suggestion although I think Santa Cruz is a high demand area as well, even though I don't have a rainbow sticker on the back window :P

    I just get a little bit crazy in a fast car. It's addictive and I can't be trusted, even though I'm a trained driver--I just take too many chances (not with other lives, but with my own). Never had an accident but I've scared myself plenty.

    You know how it is: "Hey, I can pass that guy, I have plenty of power" or ....."just listen to that engine when I wind 'er up"......

    What I REALLY need is a car that seems to go fast when it isn't, like an Austin Healey Sprite----but geez, how primitive can you get?

    Subaru's fine---it was really great today on Highway 17 in a furious rainstorm. An old Porsche targa with their lousy ventilation, drippy top, and wiggly tail would have been hell. On the other hand, a brand new Carrera AWD would be been okay :shades:
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    What I REALLY need is a car that seems to go fast when it isn't, like an Austin Healey Sprite----but geez, how primitive can you get?

    1st-gen Acura Legend coupe? Nice suspension, respectable yet lawful 2.7L V6, and little in the way of go-fast aftermarket parts.

    image
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Guess I'm not as hot on that 2002 as some of you. Looks like a piece of junk to me. Rusted doors, very suspicious floor pans, ripped seats

    There you go, spoiling my daydream :sick: I've never looked over one of these for rust, sounds like it can happen everywhere. I was thinking the seat fix wouldn't be too tough, but yes, rusty body = waste of time. You previousely mentioned a collapsed seat on a 5er - is that expensive to fix, or is it the horsehair stuffing (IIRC) falling apart?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Legends were very good cars, Bump, but not any more exciting than a Subaru Outback IMO, so aside from a bit more power it wouldn't appeal to me, as 2-door coupes like this are not very useful and anything but sexy. I think I'd be bored with it very quickly. The suspension and brakes would roll over and play dead within 1/2 hour of the way I would try to drive it. It lacks personality. It is much too polite. :P

    MUSTANGS -- good bang for the buck but they weld in subframe connectors for a reason---a frame that is a flexi-flyer. And if you stiffen everything up in that pretty primitive chassis, you end up with a bone-crusher. So I'd suggest extensive test riding to make sure you can live with the shortcomings of this car after you have been seduced by the V-8 rumble. These are real low budget cars when new, so rattles, squeaks, parts falling off and ornery handling are things to watch for.

    Often people put too much motor in these cars, and there's nothing worse than "too much motor", which often equals too much stress, too much heat, a clutch fit for a Kodiak bear, and axle tramp like you wouldn't believe.

    So I'd go for modest modifications and keep it as a pleasant cruiser, not a sports cars, which it ain't.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,438
    So, I'm thinking that thanks to a new unexpected promotion, I may be able to accelerate my plans for a toy. Once I do a few things to the house, would a Mustang possibly be an affordable way to pay cash and get into the game? I know that it won't draw any crowds but it could be a little fun if I get one with a stick and possibly be on the low maintenance side for a few thousand miles a year

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    I like this one with the Welds

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    The following two are obviously piles of crap



    Looks like it's held together by rubber bands

    LOL

    A little bit better

    If there was a hardtop with subframe connectors that hasn't been beat to heck, what should I expect?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I used to like those things when they were new, and used to think it was a pretty sexy style. But from looking at the pic above, it shows that sometimes we remember things as being better than they really were.

    Oh I still think it's a pleasant enough little car, but I just don't think the styling is anything to get excited about anymore.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800
    A 914 could be a fun toy for not too much money, but you need to buy the 2.0 model and you need to watch for rust. Some people have switched out the Bosch injection for Weber carbs but that's yet another "Weber conversion" that makes matters worse, not better.

    That's exactly what the article says. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    My friend has one of those with a Chevy 350 in it. :P You can't even talk to anyone while you're in the car.

    A 914 could be a fun toy for not too much money, but you need to buy the 2.0 model and you need to watch for rust. Some people have switched out the Bosch injection for Weber carbs but that's yet another "Weber conversion" that makes matters worse, not better. I wish people would stop doing that to MGBs and 914s and Volvo P1800s, It simply doesn't work out very well and it's an $$$ way to fail.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, people who know 914s are always telling this to newbies, and the newbies never listen because they think Webers will make their car faster. But all Webers do is give you a complex device with very imprecise metering for a broad range of conditions. Webers are great for racing however, where WOT is the norm. But for idling in traffic or slow speed operation, they over-fuel the engine.

    Which is why any imported car with Webers is DEAD MEAT for a California emissions test---don't even BOTHER to try to pass.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Lotus

    It appeals to me for some reason, but the price seems pretty high.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I also hear the vehicle security systems on those can be pretty troublesome. :P (sorry, vague "For Your Eyes Only" reference)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yeah it does look like a fun car, but it's a shame they used that dog of an engine for a conversion. A Chevy crate engine would have given much more power and probably better economy as well.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,815
    Of all odd places, the local Ford dealer is advertising a (IIRC) 1983 Porsche 944 (I think it was an '83), with a whopping 40K miles on it. Asking $7,995. And no, I have not gone to look at it yet!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    I bet your son might like that one. How in the world do you drive a Porsche less than 2,000 miles a year, especially a 944. If Porsche ever made a commuter car this was it.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I think I drove my 944 around 1500 miles last year, but that is a little different because it was a 20 year old car when I bought it and I have another car as a daily driver.

    That being said, I have neighbors with 911s and Boxsters that couldn't possibly rack up more than 2,000 miles a year.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That is so silly. A modern Porsche can easily go 200,000 miles on an engine if not more. These cars were built to drive hard and fast. Babying them just destroys them.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    My neighbor has a Cadillac XLR, BMW Z4, and an Audi A4 Convertible for fun. He has two pickup trucks he keeps at his lake house and another pickup truck, a Cadillac SRX, and a Honda Odyssey for his and his wife's daily driving duties. That makes it kind of hard to rack up the miles on any of the cars. This guy is an extreme, but four cars for two drivers is often the norm rather than the exception.

    The other excuse I hear is that the doctors usually work in the hospitals downtown on a regular basis and are afraid to leave their Porsches parked there.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I don't care about the other cars, as they will fade into nothingness, but a Porsche should never be left to rot :P
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I dunno; I put maybe 750 miles on the S2000 the first year I had it, and some of that was going to the grocery store just to give it some exercise.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,791
    Yeah, no kidding!

    Andre, you are certainly not joking when you say "fleet." Whoa.

    I could not even begin to cover all the miles on my vehicles; I drive more than I care to admit. I was thinking about it a few weeks ago and I estimate that I put 160,000 miles on my Subaru Outbacks since August of 2000 - 145,000 on my '96 (it had 220,000 last December... 2006) and about 7500 each on the 07 and 08 Outbacks. Also since then (8/2000), the miles on my other vehicles went down dramatically. I probably put 10,000 on my '69 Chevy since then and 30,000 on it during the three years prior.

    I have not been driving all that long; what, 15 years probably. Tossing a WAG out there, I have likely logged 250,000 miles total, so obviously most of my miles logged have come during the last 7.5 years.

    Were they not mostly old gas guzzlers, I would definitely drive my antique "fleet" more often. As it is, the combo of activating insurance and paying for the 10-11 mpg make it severely cost-prohibitive. I limit the use of my trucks to required trips only (i.e., hauling loads, plowing, etc). I stretch my old van's legs (at about 25 mph... hehe) a couple times a year on my local road sans insurance just to lube the parts a little bit.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,438
    My two cars are pretty pedestrian but I struggle to put 5k a year on either. my daily commute to the train is 3/4 of a mile and my wife is a stay at home Mom
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    here's the rundown on my fleet, over the years...

    1967 Catalina convertible. Bought it in April 1994. Probably put about 10-11,000 miles on it since then.
    1957 DeSoto Firedome: Bought in September 1990. Maybe 3000 miles?
    1979 NYer 5th Ave. Bought in October 2001. Roughly 7200 miles.
    1985 Chevy Silverado. Bought in September 2002. Maybe 17,000 miles. However this one gets used fairly regularly. My roommate who doesn't have a car and I switch off between this one and my Intrepid.
    1976 LeMans: Bought in April 2005. Maybe 2000 miles, which included the 500 mile trip home from Ohio, where I bought it.
    1979 NYer base model. Bought in May 2007. Perhaps 400 miles.

    My roommate used to drive 40 miles round trip to work, 5 days per week, and I was letting him use my Intrepid for that, since it got much better fuel economy than my truck. Plus, I really didn't trust him with that truck, having to go that far. Nowadays though, he only has to go about 10 miles round trip, 4-5 days per week, so I've been making him use the truck more.

    The Intrepid really hasn't really had to go that far in recent years, either. I think it hit 120,000 miles back around Feb/March 2004. I remember that because that's when it went in for its tranny service, which I have done every 30,000 miles. It now has about 139,000 miles on it. So even my most-used car is now down under 5,000 miles per year. Drastic change from when it was new and I delivered pizzas, and racked up 30,000 miles in 11 months!

    I guess if I ever bought another brand-new car, as little as I drive these days, it would last almost forever. That is, if it doesn't dry-rot first!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,815
    Nice deal the roomie gets. Room plus a free car to use? I wouldn't bother to buy one either with that package!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    I put 110K on two cars in 4 years, mostly work commute. The current commute is round trip 58 miles daily. The worst was right after wifey and I got our first house outside of Houston. We lived west of Houston, she worked in the medical center and I on the Gulf freeway (east side). Fortunately we could carpool, because it was 75 miles a day, round trip. I couldn't do that with today's gas prices. $3.02gal last night for regular. A fillup will last 4 days.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Forget the gas cost, the Houston commute alone would drive me to drink!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Oh, I let him use my car, but it ain't free. He reimburses me for insurance, gasoline, and so much per month that I use for a maintenance/repair/replacement fund. Still cheaper than a new car payment, definitely, but if he really wanted to he could probably get a decent used one for about what he's been paying me.

    I don't want youse guys to think I'm some rich old patsy sugar daddy or something like that! :P
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    The sedan in front is the color that I was thinking of.
    Isn't it lovely! :blush:

    image

    james
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Got FUN? hardly, I can't imagine that driving a 40+ year-old Saab wagon would been a whole bunch of fun. Besides that paint job looks so wrong. Old Saab wagons are supposed to be olive-drab green. :P

    james
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Fun? There are some strange people in this world, and at least one of them lives in Seattle.

    ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    Or beige or tan...colors to match the excitement of the vehicle.

    There's actually a couple of those things running around here, I see them out now and then.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I once drove with a friend to Mexico and back in one of those, back in the 1970s. I briefly had a sedan version, also a '67.

    They are rugged cars but very primitive devices, with a clunky column shifter and an engine that sounds like ball bearings in a clothes dryer. And with lots of parts made out of unobtainium, a potential future value of zilch, and looks that only another armadillo could love, one does have to wonder where the fun is exactly.

    You want a noisy rugged station wagon, buy a Subaru. You'll have just as much "fun" (as in none) and not break down every week.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Ironic that I'd happen across that pic just as ABBA's "Dancing Queen" happens to be playing on my Itunes. :P And I had to do a double-take, because in those flesh-tone clothes, at a quick glance those people look naked!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Doesn't the back end of that Saab wagon kind of remind you of that of a 1957-58 Dodge wagon?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Yeah, I was thinking that too, Lemko. Heck, I think the slightly Dodge-ish rump of that wagon is its best feature! :P
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    The gold-tone grill on the town car is sooo classy.
    It makes me want to ralph. :P

    Step-side pickups never made sense to me.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,791
    Step-side pickups never made sense to me.

    Er, um.... what? Never made sense?! As the owner of a stepside pickup, I can tell you that they are, aside from the bed itself, the most practical and useful feature ever put on a pickup truck. Their demise was only a result of a truck's appearance outweighing practicality. The moment manufacturers tried to turn a stepside pickup into a cutesy truck, the steps themselves were doomed. They lost their practicality and cannot possibly be as pleasing to the eye as a fleetside.

    My '69 Chevy pickup, with its perfectly dimensioned 4'2" x 8'2" bed, complete with a walkable bed rail and large steps, is incredibly practical. Sense is all it made. I laugh every time I am loading up the bed with some ridiculous, cumbersome load, scaling the bed every which way with ease while I manipulate and secure it because, right next to me, there is invariably an owner of a modern pickup struggling to secure a load as simple as a few sticks or sheets of lumber.

    No, pickups have gained a lot over the years, but one thing they lost was the wonderfully practical stepside.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I'm with Oregonboy. I can't figure out how making the bed smaller and the entire truck look goofy is a benefit.

    Maybe the step-sides are good for really short people. I've recently borrowed a new GMC, a Dodge Ram and an F150 and had no trouble securing stuff in the bed. The only concern I had was scratching the side with my belt buckle.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I always thought stepside pickups were pretty useless was because most times the step-side is a short 6-6.5 foot bed. But I guess it's really the shortness of the bed that limits the usefulness, not whether it's fleetside or stepside.

    I guess they haven't made a stepside pickup with an 8 foot bed in decades now.

    Also, I'm guessing a slide-in truck camper can still fit on a stepside truck, right? I mean, it has to fit between the wheelhousings anyway.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,791
    Well, again, the "goofy" argument was the demise of the stepside. Sure, they do not have the sleek appeal of a fleetside, but people who bought trucks to work them did not care about such aesthetic nonsense. The true stepside is gone from the market so long now that most people do not know any different, nor do they use their trucks like they once did.

    The "extra space" gained in a fleetside pickup is typically underutilized, as the only large-scale usable space is between the wheel wells anyway. Step sides had no incursion of the wheel wells into the bed, so the only lost space is that bit along either side, which is useful for cramming small items when the main bed is full.

    As far as securing loads, I suppose one would have to experience the access difference between an old long bed stepside and the typical fleetside short (6') boxes of today. Anyone who works a truck like I do would cringe at the thought of a fleetside if they had experience with a stepside.

    For little sport trucks like that '76 Chevy, yes, the stepside is nearly pointless. It still offers better access to the bed, but for what use? Bed access remains an issue; Ford just came out with a fancy hideaway step to assist access.

    It is ironic that something created for practicality eventually became a vestigial bump on the sides of short-bed sport trucks. Anyone remember the Ranger Splash? Sport. No wonder the stepside was doomed. :cry:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I do find it amusing that pickups have gotten so big, so tall, so commanding, so macho, that they have become almost impossible for the average-sized person to see into, let alone load from the side. Without a stepside, that is. :blush:

    I just about spit a gut when I first saw an ad for the hide-away, access step for the rear of a new pickup. :P

    As for securing a load, I've yet to see anything to beat the row of nasty-looking hooks around the perimeter of the bed of my 1974 Mazda pickup (R.I.P.).

    james
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I do find it amusing that pickups have gotten so big, so tall, so commanding, so macho, that they have become almost impossible for the average-sized person to see into, let alone load from the side. Without a stepside, that is.

    And in many cases, that extra bulk hasn't translated into any extra useable interior room. For instance, I've sat in the new Chevy and GMC pickups, to compare them to my old '85. Just going by feel, there's no additional legroom, shoulder room, or headroom. No additional room behind the seat for storage, either. The dash and steering wheel are further away though, as pickup trucks these days go a little "cab forward", pushing the base of the windshield to where it actually overlaps the back of the engine.

    Somehow, the new Silverado ends up being a foot longer than my '85. 224.5" long, compared to 212" for mine. Wheelbase is only a bit longer though, 133" versus 131.5". I'll be danged if I can see where the extra foot went, though. I think the front bumper might jut out a bit more. The hood doesn't appear any longer, but with the more sharply sloping windshield, that might be where some of the extra length went.

    One thing I'm impressed about though, is that it looks like GM tried hard to give these trucks a decent payload capacity. The regular cab/8-foot bed style has a GVWR of 6400 lb, and base weight of 4594 lb, which I guess is with the 4.3 V-6. That's about an 1800 lb spread there. My '85 has a GVWR of 5600 lb, and weighs about 4200 lb, according to the scale at the local landfill. So it only has a spread of about 1400 lb.

    I dunno how the F150 or Dodge ram stack up, though...whether they've actually improved over the years or not? I do remember my stepdad saying that my '85 Silverado can haul more than their 2002 F-150.
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