Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Arrhhh a warriors death you say. Worf agrees with you.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Far better to die in battle than to be put on cinder blocks and slowly tortured to death in the back yard of some old coot who is "gonna restore 'er some day".
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    When the 70's crap failed, you could find ways to bypass it.

    I bought a carbureted 1983 Malibu wagon in '95. It had 120k or thereabouts and was in decent shape overall.

    One problem was that it leaked from the exhaust manifold, or more to the point, from the AIR tubes that bolted into the manifold like an 8-legged spider. Air Injection Reaction, as I'm sure you'll recall.

    It took me $32 in parts and a full EIGHT HOURS of work to get the old, corroded plumbing removed and the replacement parts installed. What a mess. I had my heart in my throat the whole time because I knew if I buggered up any of the threads, that was it for me and the Malibu.

    Most people didn't bother and just plugged the holes in the manifold and called it good. The problem is that when you do that and don't pump air into the exhaust, the extra gas (~ 10% according to the literature) goes unburned and winds up in the air. How do you like that? Everytime you fill up the tank, you might as well splash 2 gallons into a pan and have it evaporate. That's disgusting.

    It makes me wonder whether the net effect of a lot of 70's smog equipment wasn't to increase the pollution over the life of the car. At least here in the Midwest where there's no annual smog check.

    Now once fuel injection became the norm, things got much, much better. I just sold the last carbureted vehicle I ever hope to own.

    -Mathias
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I remember commercials for them that said, 'you could pay more for a luxury car but don't have to'

    Yeah, why pay more for a Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, or Cadillac when you can get the same thing at your Chevy dealer. Oops. :sick:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I always used to tell people back then that a Cadillac was just a Chevrolet with more sound-proofing, more chrome and better upholstery, and I don't think I was too far from wrong. It's not like Chevy assembly line workers were just slamming them together while Cadillac workers were tippy-toeing around in white gloves and hand-fitting each piece.

    Maybe in 1956 a Buick, Olds or Cadillac was a "better built" car than a Chevy, but I don't think so in the 1970s. There was just MORE of everything, including gadgets of course.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,439
    Yeah, why pay more for a Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, or Cadillac when you can get the same thing at your Chevy dealer

    I think that was the point exactly. Each division was like it's own little business and they were more than happy to cannibalize from each other
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I remember commercials for them that said, 'you could pay more for a luxury car but don't have to' Couldn't these be optioned up pretty nicely? I recall seeing one at a cruise night last summer that looked to even have a factory moonroof. If it wasn't factory, it was an exceptional aftermarket installation.

    I just checked my 1985 Consumer Guide, and it's not showing a sunroof as an option on the Caprice/Impala, but it's an option on the Parisienne, LeSabre, Delta 88, and Fleetwood Brougham. A $1230 option. I dunno why they didn't offer it on the Caprice, though. I think they did offer it in earlier years though. Either that or it was a very common aftermarket option, because I know I've seen them from time to time.

    Back in, say, 1978, you could option up a Caprice with power windows, door locks, seat, probably a power antenna and a nice stereo. They probably offered some kind of rally wheel option as well, although most of the ones I've seen just have hubcaps. That BBS style hubcap in the one above was an option, though. I don't think they started offering a leather interior in the Caprice though, until around 1986-87. By 1987 though, GM's big RWD cars were down to just the Caprice and the Brougham, so they made a few luxury versions of the Caprice, like the Brougham and the Brougham LS, which satisfied buyers who felt burned when the RWD LeSabre, Delta 88, and even 98/Electra went away.

    In the late 70's though, I don't think the Caprice offered a package that would give you a plush, loose pillow look velour interior like what you could get with the LeSabre Limited, Bonneville Brougham, or Delta 88 Royale Brougham or whatever long-winded name Olds was using by that time.

    They also still kept a sense of hierarchy about these cars back then, as a 350 was the biggest engine you could get in a Caprice. Meanwhile, the Catalina/Bonneville could be had with a 400 (403 in California or other areas that banned Pontiac engines). The Delta/LeSabre could have up to a 403 as well. And then a Cadillac would come standard with a 425.

    In 1980 though, the biggest engine in the Chevy was a 305, except for police cars. Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, and Buicks only went up to a 350, and Caddy got demoted to a 368. For 1981, B-O-P lost the 350's, limiting them to mainly 307's and 301's, and probably a 305 here and there.

    Throughout the 70's, Chevy did seem to maintain a "baby Cadillac" upscale sort of look about them, which no doubt helped with sales. It was a lot of car for the money. Meanwhile Pontiac tried to rely on past styling, with its split grilles, and tried to play a sporty angle, even if they really weren't. The Catalina used to be the volume seller for Pontiac, but it didn't do too well in downsized form. I think by that time, people were starting to realize that the Catalina really didn't give you anything you couldn't get in an Impala. In '77, an Impala 4-door sedan base priced at $4901, while the Catalina was $5050. And I don't know if there was really anything in a Catalina that made it worth $149 more. Personally, I think the '77 Catalina looks better, although I think they're both good looking cars. I like the Catalina's interior better (subjective), and I think it has a better dashboard (again subjective, but I think the Catalina's dash did use nicer materials and less hard plastic).
  • plmcrzyplmcrzy Member Posts: 1
    I saw an old Ford Cortina a while back and it brought back memories of a 1968 Ford Cortina my friend had when I was in high school, it had a 289 Ford V8 swaped into it along with a C4 auto trans and a Ford 9" rear end, that car was light and extreemly fast, wish I had one as a project car now, and the $$$ to play with, HA HA
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,649
    Regarding that dumb Maxima, looks like it has a mismatched airbag cover too. Always a good sign.

    I kind of like the ad with attitude. Although it begs the question, if the needed repair costs a mere grand, why not do it?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    '67 Buick Riviera -- market probably was around $15,000 last year but more like $12,000 today if he's lucky enough to sell it.

    1989 BMW E30 -- the seller sounds like he might not be well mentally. The ad is almost incoherent.

    1978 corvette Silver Anniv -- price is fair enough for a beater. I sure wouldn't go putting lots of money in this car as an "investment" though. Crate motors are cheap and matching #s are rather irrelevant on late 70s cars anyway.

    1970 Chevelle SS -- yet another 1970 Chevelle to be placed in row upon row of 1970 Chevelles at Show and Shine. Market correct? Depends on quality of work and ability to document the claims of "matching" numbers.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The guy posting the BMW needs to chill.

    It's none of his business as to what will happen with the car. If he cares so much he should fix his tranny and keep it himself. I could use it in a demo derby if I desire, or 24 hours of Lemons. lol

    I suspect he will have it on there for quite some time with that attitude.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,649
    I've noticed a lot of these fancy Chevelles and similar cars on the market lately. I suspect a lot of these are being sold due to mortgage issues...as I am certain many were bought with HELOCs.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,649
    Hey look who's back.

    It'd be funny to buy that old 3er, destroy it, and send the guy some pics.

    I'll admit when I sold my W126 I was concerned about it going to a good home, I was screening any potential buyers. I didn't want the car to end up in the hands of a high school girl or something.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Good to see you're still around....

    When I had my 77 Impala, which was all original btw with 89k miles, I sold it to a guy who said he'll cut the springs and use it in a demo derby. He was the only taker for it fo the 2 months I had it for sale, so even though it saddened me, I had to let it go.

    If I had a huge acreage, maybe I'd open up a car heaven, where older cars can rest and be preserved. lol

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    If I had a huge acreage, maybe I'd open up a car heaven, where older cars can rest and be preserved. lol

    Funny, but I always wanted to do something like that, too. In an ideal world, where I had so much money that there's no way I could ever possibly blow through it all, I think I'd buy up some big warehouses and use them to store the cars, to keep them out of the elements.

    Just out of curiosity, what does cutting the springs do for a demo derby car? Shame to hear about your '77 Impala. What kind of condition was it in when you sold it?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,649
    I'm a slacker....what can i say.

    I sold my W126 to a 60-something guy who once had a 420SEL that got hit, and wanted another one. He barely even negotiated with my price as the car was so clean and sound. What he has done with it now is his business, but I would like to think the car has been cared for.

    I'd like to have my own little old car sanctuary like that too...I'd be open to parting the cars out, but keep them away from the crusher. Over the years I have seen a number of sub-$500 fintails and others that I would like to have saved.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,439
    What's funny about the ad for the 3 is that the town the guy lives in is about a 3 hour commute to Wall Street and has a sex offender on every block. It's not where you'd expect to find a time is money Wall Street tycoon. Then again, most Wall Steet millionaires can't mess around selling 20 year old cars on craig's list for a couple grand.

    I wish that I could see that guy's inbox today.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I have no clue why he wanted to do what he was going to do..........

    The car was a two owner before me, with original unfaded paint, back seat never sat on, pretty much a old gentleman drivn car since new.

    My friend sold it to me after his son has a misshap and hit a tree damaging the front grille, other than that it was pretty clean.

    Even the seats and carpets did not show wear (it had a light blue interior).

    I sold it for $500 I think.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800
    I sold my W126 to a 60-something guy who once had a 420SEL that got hit, and wanted another one. He barely even negotiated with my price as the car was so clean and sound.

    Funny. That's the same story when I sold my 190E. The guy had an S class that he totalled and wanted another Benz. He practically begged me to sell him mine at just a few hundred below my asking price, IIRC. He was some kind of war vet according to his buddy.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Funny, fifteen years ago I had a nice 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille I sold to a friend of my Dad's who utterly TRASHED it. It wasn't until later my Dad told me this guy didn't take very good care of his cars. The last time I saw the car, it was in a junkyard outside of Hazleton, PA. I knew it was my car because I saw the parking decal for my workplace in Philly on the bumper.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Deciphering the BMW 3-Series ad:

    DO NOT CALL if this is your "first BMW because you always wanted an E30."

    It's my first BMW. My other cars are a Lamborghini, a Ferrari, and a Porsche.

    DO NOT CALL if you think $2000 is "a lot of money" (This only means you are poor).

    Well, it depends on for how much scrap metal is selling. I'm not paying more than the market price.

    DO NOT CALL if you want to strip this car apart and use it for "racing."

    Does "demolition derby" count as "racing?"

    DO NOT CALL if you think you'll be able to "chew me down." (I make a disturbing salary, this car is only for "fun.")

    I might chew you out when I find out what a hunk o' junk you sold me. Your pay is only disturbing, because one wonders how you can possibly live on so little. Your idea of the car being "fun" is sitting behind the wheel turning it back and forth making motor noises as you can't afford the gas.

    I work on Wall St, wasting my time, literally costs me money.


    He works on Wall Street in West Ghettosville, New Jersey.
    Yeah, the time you spent away from holding a styrofoam cup begging passers-by for loose change might cost you $24.63 in quarters, dimes, nickles, and pennies.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,649
    You're probably not far off. I doubt many snooty egoistic types from the real Wall Street deal with 20 year old 3ers.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    He probably got an intern position at some co. that deals with Wall Street types, and thinks he's a big shot now.

    Junior needs to slow down and be nice... or he'll be stuck with the Bimmer for a while.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,439
    Long Island (and Miami) and known for boiler room chopshops full of Gordon Gekko wannabes screwing widows out of a couple of grand on BS stock. Mastic is one of those towns that are too far East to commute to Manhattan so people only go there because it's cheap by Long Island standards and maybe because you don't mind having many sex offenders in close proximity.

    If anything, this guy probably goes to some office on the side of the Long Island Expressway and pushed crap stock making 200 phone calls a day. He probably goes home every night and watches a VHS copy of Wall St and knows every line. A Disturbing Amount of Money means that one week he screwed two widows instead of one. Mudslides were on him at Crapplebees that week.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    What kind of car is the Family Truckster in Vacation?
    I think their old wagon was an Olds Vista Cruiser.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    What kind of car is the Family Truckster in Vacation?
    I think their old wagon was an Olds Vista Cruiser.


    The Wagon Queen Family Truckster was based on a 1982 or so Ford Crown Vic station wagon. They might've still been calling them "Country Squire" by that time, but I can't remember. And yeah, the old wagon, which got crushed, was a Vista Cruiser...maybe around a 1970?
    "You think you hate it now? Wait till you drive it!"
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,820
    I can't remember how to change a link to be words like the rest of you guys do. I know I did it once, but just can't remember.

    Anyone want to supply the URLs for dummies version?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Scroll down on this page and you'll see a whole HTML chart.

    HTML Codes

    Or to make it easy, when you press the "URL" link button below this "post a message" box, it will give you an area in the code called "link title" in which you can wirte whatever you want your link to be called.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,820

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Looks like the truckster was based off an older Crown Vic Country Squire, or whatever their name for a wagon was back then.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I like the Caprice. I learned to drive on a 1989 but a station wagon version.

    The LApina is nice too, but I'd prefer it in the long wheelbase version (I know they don't make them like that).

    The Datsun is funky too, fairly good shape.

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  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,439
    How bad would the gas mileage be on the Caprice? It would probably have a 267 or 305, right?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    In 1986, the Caprice came three ways:

    4.3 (262 CID) V-6/3-speed automatic: 18/23
    4.3 V-6/4-speed automatic: 18/25
    5.0 (305 CID) V-8/4-speed automatic: 17/25

    I'd imagine the vast majority of them came with the 5.0.

    The EPA's website is also listing an Olds 307/4-speed automatic, rated at 18/25. I dunno if that's right, though. I didn't think the Olds 307 ever went in the Caprice coupe/sedan. At some point though, and I guess it could have been 1986, they started using 307's in the wagons.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,439
    Some years, wasn't there a smaller 8? My brother had a 2 door Impala that I would have sworn was a 260something V8. I supposed if those cars were rated using today's standards, that mileage would be worse. I can't see 25 mpg in real world driving. Nonetheless, if that one in the ad isn't selling, I don't think that it's because of gas mileage. We're not talking about a 10 mpg boat here
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Chevy did offer a smaller 267 CID V-8. I think it first came out in 1979 as the base V-8 on the Malibu and Monte Carlo, and then for 1980 they offered it on the Caprice/Impala as well. I think they phased it out after 1982 though.

    I'd think 24-25 mpg on the highway would be attainable if you didn't get too wild with it. They tended to use a 2.56:1 axle with the 305, and a 2.73:1 with the 307. Once they went into overdrive, that would effectively knock it down to around 1.7X-1.8X:1. They were just barely loafing along, although if you put your foot into it they would downshift pretty readily, and around 45 mph tended to hunt back and forth. But yeah, most people wouldn't be getting 25 mpg in typical driving.

    When I had my grandparents' '85 LeSabre, which had a 307, I'd usually get around 14-15 driving locally, which included pizza delivery, and maybe 22 on the highway...which is about what the new, downrated EPA estimates are for it. Back when it was newer, Granddad actually got 29 out of it. Once. That was when they took a trip out west, back when the National speed limit was still 55. Granddad probably hung around 55-60, and this was a flat desert stretch, in the springtime, so they weren't running the a/c.

    I'd imagine fuel economy, or at least the perception of it, might be hurting this car to a degree. Even though it's not a horribly thirsty car, I'd imagine a lot of people are going to think that it is, simply because it's big and has a V-8.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,960
    hey andre, just to let you know, i filled up the mustang yesterday. it got a bit over 20.5 mpg. not bad for a 17 year old car that has never had a tune up. all the plugs are original. the air filter was changed an indeterminate number of years ago.
    i do keep the tires aired up, just so it is driveable.
    it's great when my daughter with her permit pulls into the parking lot at driving school and all the boys are getting out of their mom's minvan, mom driving of course. this one is still a hold 'em :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Those of you who have followed the story of our son getting his license last year know that I put him in a '99 4dr S10 Blazer to go back and forth to school and run errands for his mom. This has worked out well, gets about 14-15 around town, and 20 on the highway.

    In January I bought a 2002 Blazer xTreme which he drools over daily.

    The boy has taken good care of the '99, no tickets, no accidents, not even a bump. Now dad has to decide if he gets to take the xTreme off to college. My thoughts are because of mileage ('99 ~90K, '02 `68K) but his level of maturity over the next year (senioritis. Been there, done that) will help with the decision. I figure one of the two will be replaced in about a year, and neither will bring much on a trade. However, I love reading the "fair market values" on xTremes. They are so rare and sought after that you can never find a decent one within $2K of the published guides. Even harder is to find one with <80K miles or hasn't been "customized" with bad audio, mongo wheels, and busted ground effects (extremely expensive to replace).

    But it is fun to see the kid beg. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,649
    Weird beast

    I prefer these early models to the later ones

    Not seen every day

    This is as rare as the owner claims - but will only receive demand from a few...also "trip tronic" always make me laugh
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I prefer the old Alfas too. The ones in the 80s and 90s got the ugly platic cladding and the newer looking tailights that totally didn't match the rest of the car.

    As for the Benz I thought there's be more than just 22 in the states but then I guess it could have been a limited run just before the model changeover.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,649
    The old ones also have a more classic rear end, no plastic spoiler etc. The covered headlights are a nice touch, too.

    The 2000 C43 had a short run as the W203 cars were ramping up. I have never seen a 2000 MY example in person, but 1998-99 cars (as the one I had) are around. I think that number is correct, or close to it. Seller claims it has xenons, but I don't see headlight wipers, so if he has those, it's a conversion.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800
    The ones in the 80s and 90s got the ugly platic cladding and the newer looking tailights that totally didn't match the rest of the car.

    hey, hey now. Watch it, bud!

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Your Alfa looks good q, I was referring to the last generation before they discountinued them.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,439
    With that Catalina, I drove it everyday for 4 years and then it stopped so I'm selling it as is. Why wouldn't you at least have a mechanic look at it? It just smacks of BS. I'd have to assume that the engine seized and he doesn't want to say so.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, really it just needs freon.....okay, and maybe a new AC compressor...you can get those on eBay for $9....and yeah, maybe a drier...picky picky...oh sure if you want to be a fanatic and get all the metal debris out of the AC system from the seized compressor, I guess you could go overboard and put in a new evaporator/expansion valve. And converting from R12 is real easy. A friend of mine's brother will do it real cheap for you. I was going to do it but I need the money for new tubes for my bike.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    {And isn't it even better? I didn't see the compressor on the pic} - Edit - oops, now I see it, far left, oh well. Those Pinto wagons weren't too bad, boss at the gas station used it as a gofer car at the autocross. Until the engine would wear out, that is...wonder why he went to the trouble of 5-lug wheel conversion. :confuse:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    With that Catalina, I drove it everyday for 4 years and then it stopped so I'm selling it as is. Why wouldn't you at least have a mechanic look at it? It just smacks of BS. I'd have to assume that the engine seized and he doesn't want to say so.

    I hate to admit it, but I'm guilty of doing sort of the same thing with my '68 Dart. I was driving it less and less, and then finally sort of retired it over at my grandmother's place. I'd move it around every once in awhile just so it didn't kill the grass. One time though, after only letting it sit a few weeks, it wouldn't start back up. It would crank, but wouldn't fire up, and if you dumped gas down in the carb, it would run for a second or two until that burned off. So I figured it was the fuel pump or breach in the fuel line somewhere.

    In my defense though, I guess, at least I know more or less what's wrong with it. With that Catalina, it would be nice if the guy at least described the events leading up to its demise, and the symptoms of what it does now. Like, does it crank but not fire up? Or nothing at all? So yeah, you're right in that it's probably got more issues with it than he's letting on.

    I guess one advantage is that it probably wouldn't be too hard to just find another Pontiac 400, or even a 455, and throw it in. But then it's dumb to pay running-car money for a 2 1/2 ton garden gnome.
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