Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    got an email advertising this site, so I'm browsing.

    Its kinda odd, I think. On the first page of 25 results alone, I count 14 replicas, 2 clones, 1 retro rod, and 5 cars that have no business on there at all ('04 bmw, '99 acura, etc).

    That leaves 2 arguable entries:
    "one of the most stylish and beautiful Cadillacs ever built"

    Not sure what this dude was thinking.

    And the 1 true classic car on there ....
    Can you call it restored when you don't even use the right engine?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Maybe he meant "on of the most stylish and beautiful Cadillacs built in 1982."

    Camaro guy is off a little. He could have made a better choice of a collector's item - not sure what, but something must be better. For spare parts on that car, I would have gone with computer modules or electronics rather than the gas tank.

    Maybe the Packard guy was restoring it to its 1974 condition instead of original condition.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I kinda like the '79-85 Eldorado. It's a decent style, IMO, but far from the most beautiful Caddies ever built! And for the most part, the engines sucked. The 1979 had an Olds 350 which I think had a 4-bbl. At least, I don't believe it was fuel injected, but I could be wrong. It was a decent engine. For 1980 you could get the Caddy 368, which I believe was fuel injected, and was a decent engine, but the Diesel 350 was really popular that year. For '81, they had the V-8-6-4 rendition of the 368, and once you disable the cylinder deactivation, I hear it's a really good car. But for '82-85, they only offered the little aluminum 4.1 or the Diesel 350, and both of them were pretty bad.

    With that era of personal luxury coupe though, I actually prefer the Toronado and the Riviera. They started off with the same Olds 350, but after that usually came with reliable, durable Olds 307's, although in some years they slipped Buick 4.1 V-6es in them. I always thought the Rivs and Toros were more stylish though, with more tasteful interiors. They had an upscale, quality look to them, without appearing pimpy like the Eldorados.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The 1992 Camaro price is ONLY 2.5 times actual value. Close enough right?

    PACKARD -- I don't understand why you'd go through all the trouble of installing a Chevy crate motor and then not put in a modern overdrive automatic? Well you get what you pay for I guess.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeesh!!! The 4100 engine was at its WORST in 1982-3! That alone would scare me away from that Eldo. Shame, because it looks to be in pretty decent condition for the price they're asking.

    That's got to be a very low-end Packard. Note the dog-dish hubcaps. I'm sure it's rare for a Packard.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Anybody have any ideas about what an '88 is worth? It looks like the front spoiler is taped together, who knows what else is hiding. This car slipped under my radar as the first time I saw it, the price was far higher than it is currently. The dealer in question is not more than a couple of miles from here. Older cars like this are usually on consignment. They sell any kind of car that is foreign and requires lots of maintenance - from Land Rovers to Lamborghinis.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    Huh. I like it.
    But it looks like its been reprayed. Hopefully it is a halfway decent job and not hiding anything.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    hmm. Bimmer with duct tape. Not a good sign.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    eh. The tape doesn't necessarily scare me. At least, not on the chin spoiler. Its just too easy to catch them on a curb when parking.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Let's call it "fair" condition, what with front air dam taped up, badly scuffed seats and who knows what else----about $4,000 seems all the money.

    The best in the world might bring $7,000, with no chance of any future appreciation on this model beyond inflationary upticks.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Might be easy to catch on a curb, but if the owners idea of repair is duct tape, what is his idea of maintenance???
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    An old BMW is not a car you want to maintain on an "as needed" basis. You have to be pro-active with these cars, not reactive, or they'll bite you in the butt and won't let go either. Great engines, well-built, but glitchy and you have to scour the aftermarket and BMW clubs for parts discounts and repair tips to stay alive on these cars.

    These can be daily drivers if you a) buy one in great shape from the get-go and b) spend enough each year to stay on top of it. Plan on at least $100 a month averaged out for basic maintenance and replacement of expendables.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Are they any fun to drive? Their is actually another one in my local paper that sounds like it might be really nice.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They are a bit large for "fun". They are more of a GT car, a comfy and somewhat sporty highway cruiser. I don't think I'd like to be flinging one around a twisty road all day long. But one of these with a manual transmission might be sorta kinda fun if you don't mind shifting a big heavy sedan type vehicle. Personally I see these cars as point-to-point high speed cruisers, with automatic, AC, leather seats and stereo, and very good road manners. I don't see them as "sports cars" by any stretch, although fanatics insist otherwise.

    These are BIG cars. Nice ride, though.
  • charleyccharleyc Member Posts: 1
    I have an 83 LeBaron that belonged to my Dad who recently died. He did drive it and maintain it. It has ~ 83K miles, power windows/locks and a/c. Any idea on what I can sell it for?
  • stumack1stumack1 Member Posts: 56
    100 bucks.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I have an 83 LeBaron that belonged to my Dad who recently died. He did drive it and maintain it. It has ~ 83K miles, power windows/locks and a/c. Any idea on what I can sell it for?

    Sorry about your loss. I don't believe the 83 Lebaron has any collector car value. If it has sentimental value to you then keep it, otherwise expect to get a few hundred bucks for it as it's a 25 year old used car.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    $500 to $1,000 is fair market value for a clean driver. Try craigslist. Someone will buy it to get to work I bet.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    It actually sounds like a nice little car, but unfortunately, I don't think ANY 1983 Mopar really has much collector value. One thing you might want to do, though, is scope out some Mopar clubs and post it there. There are some die-hard Mopar fans that love EVERYTHING Mopar, so one of them might snatch it up.

    And actually, it might make a decent daily driver in these times of high gas prices. I imagine it has the 2.2 with a 3-speed automatic? Even though it doesn't have overdrive, it's still fairly economical. I had an '88 LeBaron turbo coupe, and it could break 30 mpg on the highway.

    But yeah, try Craigslist, eBay, some of the Mopar clubs. I imagine if you just do a Google search for "Mopar Club", a lot of stuff would come up. Two that I know of right off-hand are the Mopar Mailing List and the Chrysler Products Owners Club of America.

    Good luck with it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I think he'd be better off keeping it for himself as he'd be disappointed at what he'd get for it, especially if the car is in excellent shape. I guess an exception might be something like "Jon Vought's car" - a 1983 Town & Country convertible if anybody recalls the Seinfeld episode.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    I guess an exception might be something like "Jon Vought's car" - a 1983 Town & Country convertible if anybody recalls the Seinfeld episode.

    That episode was a total hoot. Thanks for the memory, Lemko.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I agree. I thought of that episode the minute I saw the post. :D

    Turned out it was the wrong Jon Voight though.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    '73 Corolla -- seller needs to "get real". The car is worth maybe $750 bucks. Rust, dents, mismatched paint---these are DEDUCTS from the book value!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    '73 Corolla - just think how fast it must be if you get it with those "Panasport racing wheels"! :sick: These Corollas made Toyota's reputation as economic and dependable, but in no way desireable...
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,440
    Whatever the year is, it looks fantastic for less than a grand
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,964
    the seller for the 500 was pitching it like a camaro: 'HO motor and posi'.
    it's not like you are going to go racing for pinks with it.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,654
    Funny thing, it could school most malaise-era Detroit V8s of that year ;)

    Regarding the cheaper one, I just noticed the windshield says 88, that must be what it is. For 1989 the W126 received a smoother steering wheel texture and different upholstery pattern. It's kind of sad that such details live right at the top of my head.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Funny thing, it could school most malaise-era Detroit V8s of that year

    Just for comparison, here are some 1980 0-60 times, taken from a Mopar police car book I have...

    Corvette 350: 7.4 seconds
    Trans Am Turbo 301: 8.2 seconds
    Camaro Z-28 350: 8.5 seconds
    Dodge Mirada CMX 360: 10.5 seconds

    Fastest police car in 1980: Dodge Aspen 360, 10.9 seconds.

    Those civilian car tests were from C&D and MT, who would tend to shift automatics manually, power-brake, etc...do whatever it took to get the quickest time possible. For the copcar tests, they just put two cops in the car and had them take off, flooring it but not doing anything special.

    So yeah, 1980 wasn't exactly a stellar year for performance. :sick:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Was that Corvette dropped from a helicopter?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    This police car book doesn't mention which transmission the cars had. I guess it's possible that the Vette, Trans Am, and Camaro all had stick shifts? I know the Mirada and the copcars just had 3-speed automatics.

    There was an optional 350 for the 1980 Corvette that had 230 hp, so I guess that could have been the one that was tested. Standard 350 just had 190 hp, and a 180 hp 305 was a credit option.

    The Camaro Z-28 also used a 190 hp 350. The Turbo Trans Am's 301 had 210 hp. And the Mirada CMX had a 185 hp 360.

    Top Mustang engine for 1980, believe it or not, was a 2.3 turbo! 140 hp. According to my old car book, the 302 was not offered that year. Only V-8 was a 118 hp 255. I imagine the 2.3 turbo would've been pretty quick in that light body, but my copcar book didn't list it or any stats on it like they did those other cars. I know once the 302 came back to the Mustang, with 157 hp, it was pretty quick, but that was a few years off.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,654
    A 1981 test by 'Autocar' magazine put a Euro spec 500SE at 7.5 0-60. Not too shabby for a sedan of the period.

    The American mags could get in the low-mid 10s for the detuned NA market 380SEL that year.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Corvettes were recovering quite nicely from their mid-70s problems by then (from a HP standpoint anyway).
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    But, the '86 911 deal I posted about is close to going through. My FIL is supposed to take it by his friend's Porsche shop today or tomorrow and check it out. We've come to an agreement, so if it checks out, it is mine.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    According to Edmunds, the TMV of a clean '86 Carrera with options is $3,386. Why bother having a calculator for older cars if it is going to be so far off?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I wrote to them about that TMV error but you might mention it using the "help" button down below at the very bottom of the screen (way down there).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    According to Edmunds, the TMV of a clean '86 Carrera with options is $3,386.

    Woohoo!
    Who do I contact to let them know I'll take every one they have on hand?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,654
    I just made a random old car TMV, an 85 MB 300TD wagon with 75K miles and all options, in "outstanding" condition. I will also buy all of those they are willing to sell me for $1587.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well at least that's only 50% wrong instead of 250% wrong. :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    well I had a bit of drama with my two Pontiacs over the past week. Friday before last, the Catalina killed its battery. Then that Sunday, the LeMans decided to die...it would crank but wouldn't fire up. I was supposed to take the LeMans to a car show up near Allentown, PA, too.

    Then to top it off, I lost the keys to the Catalina! :blush:

    I ended up driving my '79 NYer, the base blue one that used to leave me stranded at work until I had the carb rebuilt. Would have taken the 5th Ave, but the LeMans was blocking it in and I didn't feel like pushing it out the garage and then uphill to get the 5th Ave out. Plus, the base NYer, while not as trustworthy to drive, is a bit more presentable for a car show.

    And damn if it didn't die on me, at the grocery store, about 2 miles from home when I stopped off to get ice for the cooler! :mad: I was just about to give up on it and call one of my roommates to come get me, when I finally jiggled around with the choke in just the right way and got it to fire up. I was probably taking a chance driving it all the way up to that car show, which was about a 392 mile round trip. But the car did fine, and even managed to get about 19 mpg on that trip, which ain't too bad because I wasn't exactly trying to hypermile it! Oh, I did lose a hubcap along the way though. Didn't notice until I actually got up to the show. So the car did look a bit ghetto sitting out on that show field.

    I think I miffed off someone, too. When they had us park on the field, I pulled in next to this nice 1966 or so Chrysler Newport. I didn't see that a '60 Caddy pulled in next to me. The guy with the Newport struck up a conversation with me, started talking about his love of Chryslers. I admitted that my original plan was to bring a '76 LeMans to the show, but it wouldn't start, so maybe that was God's way of telling me to stick with Mopar! I happened to turn at that moment, and saw the guy with the '60 Caddy was giving me a not-so-amused look. Oops! :blush:

    Well, as fate would have it, the LeMans finally did fire back up on Sunday. I had its battery out and on a trickle charge, so I just put in the new battery intended for the Catalina. I took a sock and sprayed it with starting fluid and covered the carb throat. Dang thing fired right up!

    And yesterday, I finally found the keys to my convertible. They were actually under the hood. I'm guessing that I put them under there when I was messing around trying to get it started. I'd had the car's battery out at this point, trying to charge it back up. Sometimes if you just hook jumper cables right to the terminals, with no battery in it, it's still enough to start the car. But this time it didn't. So I'm guessing I gave up, had the keys in my hand, and laid them down on the front bulkhead/radiator support/whatever you call it. Unhooked the jumper cables, put them away, and then closed the hood, forgetting about the keys.

    So I'm reasonably happy now, and all is right with the world.

    Oh, and the guy who's buying my beat-up '68 Dart stopped by yesterday, and gave me another $100 towards it. He wants to come out on Saturday, finish paying for it, and finally pick it up. So I guess there will be an empty spot in my driveway just waiting to be filled. :shades:
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Unhooked the jumper cables, put them away, and then closed the hood, forgetting about the keys.

    I left a quart of oil under the hood of the S2000 last week. I remembered it before I started the car, though.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,654
    I wonder if the cars are trying to tell you something...

    One when I was a kid I locked the keys to the Tempo in the trunk. To save face and not call someone to bring me a spare, I removed the rear seatback and got them myself.

    Years ago when doing some kind of fine tuning with the fintail, I took off my watch and placed it some distance from the car - I was in the parking lot of my old condo. I finished my work, drove the car around...and ran over the watch, destroying it. I also have a bad habit of leaving the key to that car right in the ignition.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "One when I was a kid I locked the keys to the Tempo in the trunk."

    AARGG! Somebody owned a Tempo - and is willing to admit it?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,654
    Nah, it was bought new by my mother as a commuter, and then kept in the family as a spare car after it was miled up. It hung around being used by various kids until all the kids had their own cars...she finally got rid of it in 1999 when it had about 190K on it, untouched original powertrain, but it did have electrical glitches.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    first gen miata.
    I was about to comment on the alignment issues, but I see someone on Ebay took care of that for me. The other thing, though, is that something is wrong with that inspection sticker. I'm pretty damned sure our stickers don't have vin numbers on them and they certainly don't look like they are trimmed by a 2nd grader.

    Pretty light description for someone who has supposedly owned since new.

    OK, you have to look at the pics. I think this may be deserving of a "write a caption" contest.

    I think a couple of you guys will love this.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    Why would someone spend that amount of time and money on the 280Z, best known as a disappointment? The newer Z (assuming it runs OK) would get my money first.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I've always kinda liked those old Volvo 240's, too. I always looked at them as sort of a Swedish Dodge Dart. A style that went on long enough that it got really dated by the end of its run, but still having sort of an honest, trustworthy, workhorse type of aura about it. I'm sure they were a LOT more sophisticated than a Dart, though. :P

    The 1970 Riviera never really excited me. That seemed like a transition year to me, and the car just looked too much like a bloated Skylark. Seemed kinda old fogey, whereas earlier Rivs were more upscale yet sporty at the same time. When the Boattail came out for '71, it seemed like they tried to return to sportiness, even if the thing was watered down to a guzzied up LeSabre coupe by '74. Still, that one doesn't look too bad at first glance. Although I think it's been repainted. In some of the closeup shots, the reflections in the paint just look too fuzzy, kinda like a cheap repaint with lots of orange peel. As long as the paint wasn't faded, the finish on older cars tended to give a clearer reflection than many modern cars! Maybe it could just be buffed out, though?
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    There's definetley something fishy about the Miata with the non aligning panels. I've seen many, and this doesnt look normal.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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