Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

qbrozen

140k miles and 8 years old and still ... i dunno... ~40% of its original price?

And that's not an anomaly

Yet....
$6k discount still ain't enough to move a new diesel

fintail

This is the one where I'd think you would want the correct engine

Probably better than most

"Brougham"

Not something seen every day

Funny blast from the past, painful price

For the money, why not

andre1969

I kinda like that '71 Torino. Those 4-door hardtops must be pretty rare. I think Ford only had that body style in the midsize range for '70-71. Years ago I saw one for sale at Carlisle, silvery green, real sleeper looking car...but it had a 429 under the hood!

I do think it was a bit much though, once they started applying the name "Brougham" to cars in this size and price range. It just seems to me that word should be reserved for a more Elite class of car.

I guess it's just a word that got watered down, along with "Limited", "Classic", etc.

Mr_Shiftright

Well that Jaguar Mark II has now been rendered worthless. Nice job guys.

Might be good for parts.

qbrozen

Salvage title?
Looks to my untrained eye it should be maybe a $7k repair. Yet insurance totalled it. hmmmm... more damage than meets the eye, maybe?

Oh wait!
He has more!
Lesseeee... $13,500 for the one above or $10,500 for this obviously sound investment?

lemko

Sheesh! There goes my idea of finding a used Insight for a reasonable price! Wouldn't the battery packs be down on their efficiency after that much time and mileage negating their fuel economy? I'd consider those prices if both the ICE and hybrid drive have been completely overhauled and a new battery pack installed - that is if the body and interior are decent.

qbrozen

Heck, if it runs OK, could strip it down and make it a track car.

My cousin has a great tool collection. We could buff that right out.

That price is about right ... if it WASN'T damaged.

Don't have to be rich to suffer massive depreciation.

qbrozen

You and me both.

And that's not even the worst of it. Check out the asking prices on Autotrader!

Guess everyone read that article in R&T this month, huh? ;P

Mr_Shiftright

Given that one could find a nice 2005 Prius for around $18,000 with low miles and no salvage title, I don't much see the wisdom of buying a salvage car for $13,500.

Sounds like about $9,000 would be the right price. Then just drive it into the dirt.

boomchek

Given that one could find a nice 2005 Prius for around $18,000 with low miles and no salvage title, I don't much see the wisdom of buying a salvage car for $13,500.

You'd be surprised how many people are willing to save a buck, even if it means going salvage.

I've had friends who convinced themselves (or got convinced by the seller) that the vehicle sustained only minor damage and "scratches" but otherwise it's ok. When you tell them there's no warranty, they look in disbelief, and wonder if it was worth the $3-5k they saved (typically on 1 or 2 year old model).

lemmer

I'd only buy a salvage car if I was planning on throwing it away when I was done with it. I'd probably still need to know the owner and the car's history.

qbrozen

OH, I didn't say it was a good buy.
Just wondering aloud why it was totalled if its just the damage shown in the pics.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably because just about every panel was hit and the whole car would have to be painted. Also they might have had it on a laser alignment machine and it was too far out of spec.

The Golden Rule is:

"Whatever it is that gets you into a car cheap when you buy it, will come back to haunt you when you sell it".

oregonboy

Here's the only Insight on the Seattle area Craigslist:
2002 Honda Insight, metallic grey, 105k mi., 53+ mpg, 5 spd, A/C

I could see having one for the occasional long distance trip, but not at that price. What did they sell for new?

boomchek

The Insights were pricey when new. I remember when I worked for Honda in 03/04, the Canadian MSRP was like $26k for one, about $3k cheaper than the first Civic hybrid.

We never carried them as they were special order. Not many even inquired about them.

I bet if they'd be available for sale now with same pricing as a Smart car, (sub $20k) they'd sell like hotcakes. I guess Honda was a little ahead of the curve back then.

Not sure how much the Insights cost when new in the US.

explorerx4

this would look good at your mopar shows

not sj or ssj

not many

very near me and over priced

spend another 10 and get a new one

turbo chicken?

almost done, but what color?

i thought i was looking in the 'bargain news'

park your cars underneath this

andre1969

I know it's over-priced, but I sort of like that '73 Dart. Looks like it's in pretty good shape, although in those pics it looks like there might be some bondo just behind the rear wheels. But, I think they almost came from the factory that way. :sick:

That '69 GTS is really sweet, too. I can't drive a stick worth a darn, but for something like that I'd learn!

My old supervisor had an '80 or '81 Turbo Trans Am. He sold it for something like $2500 back in 1994. He knew I was into old cars, and actually got a bit pissed because I bought my '67 Catalina, instead of his Trans Am. He just didn't grasp the concept that just because I like old cars, doesn't mean I want to get my hands on every single one in existence! Plus, I didn't have enough gold chains or chest hair to pull off the look. :shades:

I've seen the 2009 Challengers up close, and honestly, I think I'd rather just buy an old one. Plus, while the new ones may only be stickering at $43K, most people are trying to get $55K or so for them. Dunno what they're actually getting, but that's what they've been asking.

boomchek

I like the Dart too. I don't think it's overpriced if it really is the way it looks. I'd drop $3k on that.

explorerx4

the interior looks mint and it has a/c, but the right front fender looks a bit bunged up and it's beige.

andre1969

I didn't notice the front right fender, but looking again yeah, I can see how it looks a bit punched in towards the front. It sort of outlines the rubber strip, so that might be why I didn't notice it at first.

My old '69 Dart GT was a beige close to that, but it seemed to wear it better, IMO. Part of it might have been the contrasting. It had a black interior, blackout paint on the grille, a black aluminum strip that ran the entire length of the beltline, and a black trim panel on the decklid. It had a black vinyl top when I bought it, but it was tearing pretty bad and had rust underneath, so I just pulled the top off completely and fixed the rust. I just used bondo, but actually did a pretty good job. It still looked decent 4 1/2 years later, after that car had been wrecked, when I finally had it hauled off to the junkyard.

I guess I've also just had too many similar colored cars since that Dart ('79 Newport, '79 5th Ave, '67 Newport, and my '67 Catalina is a creamy yellow that's not too far off), that the color has worn kind of thin on me.

That Dart also shows the little tricks they used to fluff up the overall length of cars in the 70's. IIRC, a 1973 Dart is about 204" long, whereas my '68 and '69 Darts were about 196". You'd think 8" would be a significant amount, but on these cars, I think it was all in that little beak, and those big rubber blocks they hung on the bumper.

For '74-76, I think the Dart actually got up to 206". That was when they made the back bumper stick out further, and also put the rubber blocks back there, too.

Visually though, I think those 70's Darts look smaller than my late 60's ones did. Maybe because the late 60's ones had a longer rear deck and vertical rear-end, as opposed to the sloped-off rear of the 70's? Funny though, how the automakers could actually "hide" 8-10 extra inches back then. And also kinda interesting how they'd sacrifice utility in the name of style. That sloped off trunk dropped the Dart's volume down from about 17 feet to 15, although sadly, by the 70's, that still made it class leading in compacts, and it actually rivaled some midsizers!

qbrozen

I BELIEVE they were only like $18k here in the states in their first year or 2. It was said Honda was losing money on each one they produced and sold.

Edit: Hey, pretty good memory.
according to msnautos, the 2000 Insight's original MSRP was $18,880. And current KBB is ~$10k. That's extremely impressive resale.

fintail

Old time stripper...the kind of cars that were actually on the streets 45 years ago

Most of these are ruined today

A real truck

Fancy Granada

End of an era, kind of

Less common "Celebrity"

andre1969

That 1990 Caprice is pretty sharp. I like the way they padded the quarter window in the rear door, with a treatment that reminds me of my '79 New Yorkers. It is a bit pretentious for a Chevy, I guess, but by this time the Caprice nameplate was more or less filling the RWD full-sized car shoes for everything from the old Impala on up to the Electra/98. Lemko, you said you needed a new beater, right? Do I sense a road trip to Washington State coming up? :shades:

Those Lincoln Versailles were a pretty lame attempt, overall, to compete with the Seville. It's sort of a shame that Ford didn't try harder to differentiate the look from the Granada, because in some respects, they actually put some effort into them. IIRC, the Versailles was the first domestic car to offer a clearcoat paint job. I see them every once in awhile at car shows, and I swear they actually put many modern cars to shame. Build quality was also pretty good on them. Ford took more car in assembling these, so the fit and finish was tighter and more even than on their other models. It was a well-built automobile for the time...if only it didn't look like a fluffed-up Granada!

fintail

I remember when I was a kid a family friend had a 77-78 Versailles, grey and silver two tone. It was in immaculate condition and I thought it was a very nice car, due to the plush interior and that it had a glass moonroof - something which seemed really cool to me and was still an uncommon feature in the 80s.

fintail

Another daily driver for lemko

"You will not find anything you don't like about this car"

Mr_Shiftright

I love the brothel architecture on the seats! Too bad it's not red velvet.

andre1969

I actually like the color scheme on that '91 Fleetwood coupe. It helps to tone down the overall pimpiness of it. I don't really care for that style of car, although that one does appear to be in very nice shape. Overall though, I'd still much prefer a RWD Brougham.

My grandmother's cousin has an '89 Coupe DeVille. I've driven it a couple times, and for such a small car, GM did their damnedest to make the thing FEEL like a big car. Wide turning circle, vague handling, wallowy in the turns, etc. I guess that's what much of the buying public still wanted at the time though, because they were pretty popular at the time.

explorerx4

not only that, i'm driving it! it belongs to my FIL and has about 58,500 miles on it.
the good:
everything i tried seems to work, lights, wipers, power seat, radio, power windows and locks, power antenna!!!, clock time matched my cell phone, too!, takes bumps well. it didn't seem to leave any spots in my driveway overnight. never any bodywork or paint needed.
the bad:
power brake booster is failing, engine does not have much acceleration power uphill, general direction steering, couldn't figure out the cruise control while i was driving. someone stole the hood ornament.

lemko

Spotted another dark olive green Mopar compact sedan - this time a 1970 or 1971 Plymouth Valiant sedan with full wheel discs. The dark olive green must've been really popular back in the day.

explorerx4

why is it the green ones seem to survive? not just mopars.

fintail

This could be a good driver

"Special"

here's a genuine reason for sale

fintail

Is this a Ciera or a big Cutlass Cruiser?

I think "general direction steering" was standard equipment on most domestic cars back then.

explorerx4

you can just see the rear bumper in this pic.
cutlass wagon
it's a mid size before gm went to fwd.

if you look between the 9 and 11 am spokes on the mustang, you can see part of thr original right side exhaust pipe.

omarman

Interesting story behind this 1969 Boss 302 Mustang.

Lots of documentation including an old 13.04 second drag ET. (That was quick for a stock Boss 302.) 196 miles showing on the odo and "raced three times by an enthusiastic amateur who passed away just a few months into his ownership."

Anything is possible, who knows? The worn-looking steering wheel and missing clutch pedal seem odd. And though the seller states the engine was started and sounds strong, "the vehicle has not been moved under its own power."

Assuming all is as stated in the auction, how would you appraise a garage find like this? Deduct for needs or simply estimate the "time capsule" value of a rare old race car?

Mr_Shiftright

Well who knows about these claims. We'll see if the car shows up at national shows or whether it will end up in a law suit if the claims prove false.

Would I have paid $70,000 more than the car is worth?

No. Was the buyer wrong?

We'll only know if he can resell it for that price, right?

explorerx4

not sure why anyone back in 1970 would pick a 302 mustang as a drag race car. did they have bracket racing back then? :confuse:

fintail

Oh, one of the "lights in the bumper" models - I always thought that was a strange design cue.

I think it must be an 83 then, I want to say those were gone by 84...Andre would know.

andre1969

Yep, '83 was the last year for the RWD intermediate wagons. They transferred to the A-body (Celebrity, Ciera, et al) lineup for 1984. I always thought the taillights in the bumper were kinda weird too, but now that I think of it, the bigger '73-77 intermediate wagons were like that as well. Maybe they did it so that they could make the tailgate wider?

As for power, or lack thereof, by 1983 I think they shrunk the engine choices down to the 231 V-6 or the 307 V-8. My old '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe had the 231 and it was pretty slow. I imagine the heavier wagon body would only make it worse, unless they stuck quicker gearing in. The 307 might not be too bad in something like this. Although I imagine if you drove something like this when it was new, gradually got used to newer cars, and then had to go back to the 307, it would be a lot slower than you remembered!

boomchek

I like your Stang. Those years were one of my favourites for Mustangs. Nice to see one in mint shape, and not abused like most of them are.

jlflemmons

Sorry, but I think there is someone lying on this one. There are creases in the passengers seat that you only see from use. The steering wheel has way to much wear for the mileage, as does the shifter. I have no idea what they could have done with the clutch pedal, and all the graphics seem a bit odd also, with the cheesy steel wheels.

Too many odds here to even look at. And the seller is smoking serious crack if he thinks that car will sell for the $220K he is asking. Serious crack, indeed.

qbrozen

Lots of BS going on here, I agree. As others have noted, the steering wheel is highly suspicious. Additionally, I think the $170k bid is BS, as well. Can you say shill? I knew you could. Oh, and "reserve not met." Uh-huh. Of course. You don't want your shill meeting the reserve. They just need to push it high enough.

Just look at the bidding history. Someone with 2393 feedback certainly knows better than to keep bidding up $5k at a time.

Mr_Shiftright

I am still having visions of a lawsuit.

Sellers don't realize sometimes their liabilities regarding "misrepresentation". Protesting one's innocence about the true facts does not absolve one of culpability. If you say something that is significant enough to convince a judge that this statement sufficiently motivated a buyer to purchase the vehicle, then IMO the buyer's lawyer has a pretty good hook sunk into you.

qbrozen

Whaddya think?

I'll take a stab at $350k-$400k.
Absurd? Sure!
Possible? Hey, its Barrett-Jackson!

lemko

As long as it's really Carroll Shelby's car and not that of Carol Shelby the elderly widow who used to race MGs before she was married. Anybody interested in Jon Voight's 1983 Chrysler Town and Country convertible?

lemmer

My wife's grandfather's first and middle name are Carroll Shelby. I wonder how much I could get for his 1984 Olds Delta 98.

qbrozen

If you have a convertible T&C, I'd love to see pics. Just how do the sliding doors work?
;P

I THINK you meant John (intentional misspelling) Voight's Chrysler LeBaron.

tjc78

Pretty sure the Lebarons with the wood trim were called Town and Country back then.

lemmer

If you were ever to buy another 928, would you consider an automatic transmission? Just wondering.

lemko

Actually, the car was based on the LeBaron in homage to the original Town and Country convertible of 1946-1950. The Town and Country name was first used on the 1941 Chrysler woody station wagon. What's even more confusing is that Chrysler used the Town and Country name on three different vehicles in the early 1980s: the LeBaron-based convertible, a FWD station wagon, and the upscale minivan which debuted in 1984.



Pictured above is the 1983 Town and Country convertible. In it's new incarnation, the Town and Country sat on a 4 cylinder LeBaron chassis. Some of the T&C's of the new generation came with an optional Mark Cross interior which provided an AM-FM stereo, two-tone leather bucket seats, and a Mark Cross Edition embossment on the armrests. In it's first year back it was greatly underpowered but it was a convertible and... who else made one?

Below is a 1983 T&C wagon:

boomchek

I have been browsing the local classifieds looking around for something under $5k that I can have for fun and to tinker with. I'd like something that won't require a ton of money to keep running. Here's some that caught my eye:

69 Beaumont - looks very clean to me

It's gotta be a rare Benz with a stick

Very presentable Caddy

Impala convertible

Gran Torino

Camaro owned by scuba diving aunt

Another Camaro this one with T tops

Gangster car from the 80s with "Atari dashboard" I growing fond of these probably because of the action movies I watched when I was a kid

Raised price from $750 to $900 "because of response and condition of car" what, it restored itself in a week behind the house : confuse:

Not something I'd buy, but somethng that we all will be driving and living in after a nuclear war or a zombie outbreak