Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

That was probably the last Austin Marina remaining on the road in Canada. Good thing you guys didn't buy that! A car that directly coincides with the downfall of the British auto industry.

Funny Andre mentioned the Monte Carlo backseats...I remember sitting in the back of my friend's two Montes, and I do remember something about an ashtray in the way.

boomchek

The Marina looked better than the Volvo but I think my parents' early experience with British cars (The Morris we had in Poland) pushed them away from anything British. So the Volvo it was.

lemmer

This '87 911 is obviously a scam.

I don't think this 911 is a scam, but it seems way too cheap for its description. Must be a story there.

boomchek

The first one is a typical scam. Most scammers price their cars at under $5k (maybe a moneygram limit or something?). I had some fun with a few of them on cars they advertised in local freebie sites. Turns out the ads were lifted from legit ebay sellers or other legit classifieds.

I managed to waste a bunch of their time, gave them the runaround and told them to "go check again I just sent you a payment" before finally reporting their email to their internet provider, or in one case the fax number they gave me, which in turn I forwarded to THEIR local police dept.

I argued with one guy via email who sent me a fake ebay email asking for the payment. Then the supposed ebay customer rep asked me to fax a receipt for the payment I just sent to him. I asked why would I send you a receipt for a payment I just sent you..... are you that stupid?

anyways just having fun when things are slow at work...

As for the Ferrari it looked nice but I only saw it for the second it drove past. I've never seen one on the road before.

Mr_Shiftright

Well advertising it as a "coupe" when it's a cabriolet sort of gives the game away. :surprise:

jlflemmons

Two things that flag scam: price too good to be true, and no vin number listed.

That, and if the thing really does exist in Mississippi, could it be a reclaim from the hurricane floods???

Without the vin, you cannot check.

boomchek

Some of the ads do list a VIN as well. But when you google it, the same ad by the scammer appears all over the continent, Canada and US, and one of those is acutally a legit listing by the original seller.

lemmer

The second 911 is for sale on the Pelican Parts website for $16,500. Shows up on Craigslist in Humboldt too. Scammers are getting better, but what is the scam. Do people wire a deposit, send the whole thing before even seeing the car?

I don't buy cars online or otherwise until I touched it with my own two hands.

boomchek

The scam is that people get hooked on the low price. The scammer says that the transaction will be done through a "secure ebay program". The scammer then emails a page that looks nearly identical to an ebay transaction page, with working links and so on, but fake details. The scammer says that he won't get the money until the buyer gets the car and informs ebay that evewrything is ok. On the fake ebay pagew there's instructions on how to wire the money through moneygram or a bank transfer, or western union, and details are provided.

If you're gullible, you'll wire the money thinking it's going to an ebay portected account and that ebay is holding it, but you're really sending the money to the scammer and will never see him or any car for that matter.

qbrozen

what ya think of these?

My father likes the Rover. Says he drove one in '67 and dug it. Of course, parts will be a big problem.

We both like the Tbird, although I think probably overpriced unless its in very good shape.

fintail

There's a fintail mentioned there, sadly no pic. Also a 6.3, which is a money pit that can rival a Rolls-Royce. 4 grand for a 77K mile 500SEL could be interesting, if it is genuinely nice...they can rust, so one in Joisey would need inspection. Actually, all of those MB can fall under that warning.

hpmctorque

Interesting, scary. So how does one differentiate a fake Ebay site, or Craigslist, for that matter, or otherwise protect ones self?

Like lemmer, I would only buy a car from an online ad after I've seen the car and met the owner, preferably at the owner's residence. That's been my practice, which precludes buying cars located too far to visit or from a third party, other than a legitimate dealership. I'd make an exception if I know the person who knows the owner. I'd never buy a car from someone I don't know who's selling the vehicle for someone else.

lemmer

If people really contact you through eBay you have a duplicate message at your "my eBay" account. As long as you got to eBay rather than following links sent by someone else, you should be fine. I personally won't even send a deposit on a car. If the seller requires a deposit, I won't bid unless I can get to the car before the deposit is due.

This S2000 scam is in the print edition of my local (Birmingham) paper. The phone number has a Washington area code.

Mr_Shiftright

Now really who on earth is naive enough to BELIEVE that ad? The ad doesn't even make up some story about the ridiculously low price.

I once knew a genuine con-man from Chicago. He was very good and made lots of money cheating people. His philosophy, while certainly not justified, had a certain ring to it: "If these people are stupid enough to believe the clumsy, crude, ridiculous schemes I pitch to them, they deserve to lose their money". (paraphrase).

And it was amazing how many people seemed to bite on his very transparent con games. "Genuine" diamonds at .5 cents on the dollar, $500 Harley Davidsons, Army Surplus Jeeps for $1, "foreclosed" real estate (basically land he didn't even own), you name it, he did it.

I heard somebody shot him, so all's well that ends well :P

boomchek

Interesting, scary. So how does one differentiate a fake Ebay site, or Craigslist, for that matter, or otherwise protect ones self?

It's easy: the scammer will ask you to wire him the money, instead of using paypal. Plus hotmail has gotten really good at warning you that the email is a phisihing scam, and it's not real.

If you want I can email you a copy of some of the email I have. But typically most of the ads look like that S2000 ad mentioned earlier. Price is unreasonably low. The unfortunate part is that people do fall for it and send these guys money, that's why they're still doing these ads.

fintail

Beater for Andre

"You could probably fix for $1500 or less"

" This is a collector show car.. Not yet, but can be."

Odd "hot rod"

"The only model in 1985 recognized by NADA as a collectible!"

Mr_Shiftright

"The only model in 1985 recognized by NADA as a collectible!"

Owners of the Riviera Convertible, Mercedes SL roadsters and Ferrari Testarossa would be interested to know that.

andre1969

I like that Bonneville. I think the more basic coupes, like this one with the big triangular quarter windows, are attractive. I hated those landau roof treatments though, that gave you thick padding and a shrunken, oddly shaped quarter window.

Nice color combo too, with the light blue over darker.

Oh, and as for 1985 "collectibles", let's not forget the 1985 LeSabre. GM even said so...they called the top trim level "Collectors' Edition" :P

lemko

"You could fix for $1,500 or less..." The seller was referring to just the broken glovebox door on the Porsche. The rest of the phrase is "...you'll need a 40-year mortgage to fix everything else."

texases

Yeah, that 928 ad was laugh-out-loud funny. A fire? In a 928? $1500??? Stop it, you're killin' me :P :P

Mr_Shiftright

928 -- parts car, $500. Or if you're handy, put in a Chevy V-8 kit:

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/#

lemmer

How much does that run with all the necessary parts including the basic kit? Looks like close to $4k? How much for the labor on top of that? And don't forget the cost of the engine and tranny on top of all else.

Might as well just buy another 928. A 944 on the other hand weighs less and would easily double its hp with an LS-1.

boomchek

Half Restored Mustang

I think the restorer ran out of money and hence they want a $15k "retainer" to finish the project.

Did it come in that color blue back in the day?

Mr_Shiftright

$45,000 for a 1965 Ford Mustang coupe?

He's absolutely crazy. You could buy a REALLY nice Mustang 4-speed convertible and have money left over for a European vacation, a couple really fun nights in Vegas AND a retainer on a divorce lawyer.

You know you're in trouble when sellers call their cars 64 & 1/2 Mustangs. Unless it's serial # 1 or 2, a Mustang with a generator and funny seats is worth about $1 more.

texases

"Did it come in that color blue back in the day? "

Sure doesn't look like any of these:

boomchek

That's what i thought about the color. Who cares if the wipers are down to the orignal year of production if something as basic as THE CAR'S COLOR doesn't resemble anything from that year.

I have a feeling it'll be sitting in their shop for ever, especially with them asking for a"retainer" and price being firm. Hmmm, so I give you $15k for an unfinished car, and hope that somehow you'll assemble it, and give it to me within a reasonable amount of time, errr I mean hold it hostage until I pay you another $30k.

Mr_Shiftright

The whole business smells like a 3 day fish to me.

These cars are very common. There is no reason to rush to restore one, nor to buy the first one you see, nor to pay MORE than a K code in top condition.

totally loopy deal. :mad:

andre1969

But it's a 1964 and a HALF! That color looks like an Earl Scheib interpretation of that "B5 Blue" that was common on late 60's Mopars. I'm sure it had a more exotic name than that, but I always knew it as "B5 Blue", which I guess was its color code.

tjc78

That Bonneville is equipped weird... a power seat, but crank windows? Was this common?

andre1969

I don't think it was exactly common back in those days, but options came so a'la carte that it was possible. I think the only thing standard that Bonneville would have had was an automatic transmission, 301 V-8 (the Catalina's standard engine was a Buick 231 V-6), power steering and brakes, a solid bench seat with a front armrest and maybe an AM radio. And I know this is gonna sound silly, but I think even vinyl was optional! At least on cheaper cars, like the LeMans, Catalina, Malibu, Impala, and Caprice, usually they had a cheap grade of cloth that was standard, and then vinyl was the option. Then some cars had a higher grade of cloth that was extra cost over the vinyl.

One thing I thought was really odd back then was that GM actually offered a TWO-way power seat! I saw a late 70's Olds 98 equipped that way once. It had a power adjust for fore/aft, but that was it. No up/down or tilt, which would have been the 6-way. And I think if the seatback reclined, then it was an 8-way.

Now it's nice to have some variety in your option choices, but I think that's just overkill. It seems to me there would have been some kind of economy of scale realized if they just made all the power seats 8-way, and been done with it.

As for weird option combinations back then, my '76 Grand LeMans has power windows and a power bench seat, but manual locks. I had a '79 Chrysler Newport that had power locks, but crank windows and manual seat. My grandmother's '85 LeSabre had power windows/locks, and a 6-way power driver's seat (no recline). But the passenger side seat had a power recline for the backrest, but the only other adjustment was a manual lever for fore-aft!

tjc78

How things have changed. Today it seems as if nothing is available as a stand alone option. Maybe the original owner wasn't comfortable in the car without the power seat, and didn't want to pay for any other power options.

It seems to me there would have been some kind of economy of scale realized if they just made all the power seats 8-way

I'm sure thats the case, thats the way they do it now.

andre1969

Maybe the original owner wasn't comfortable in the car without the power seat, and didn't want to pay for any other power options.

Yeah, that could be. And FWIW, a power seat could make a world of difference in those cars. Years ago I sat in a '76 LeMans coupe that was for sale locally. It was just a cheap, basic model, and kind of beat up, so I passed on it. I remember though, that it really wasn't that comfy. The seat was a bit low for my tastes, and didn't seem to go back quite far enough. But then the '76 Grand LeMans I bought a few years ago has a 6-way seat that get get into some pretty obscene positions. Its rare that I find a car that has too much legroom, but I can actually get the seat into positions where I can barely reach the pedals! I can also raise it high enough that my head just brushes the ceiling. So in this car, it's easy for me to find a seating position that's just right, making it comfy for long trips.

My grandmother's '85 LeSabre was a really comfortable car, too, with its 6-way power driver's seat. But I've also been in similar models that just have the typical manual fore/aft and no other adjustments, and they're not nearly as comfortable.

I guess another factor at play could have been that my Grand LeMans also had better, thicker-padded seats than a base LeMans. And with the LeSabre, in 1984-85 the top level models actually used the same seats as a 1984 Electra, which no doubt helped with the comfort.

texases

"My grandmother's '85 LeSabre was a really comfortable car, too, with its 6-way power driver's seat."

Reminds me of my grandmother's car, a '61 or so Rambler with reclining seats and power windows - we thought it was something amazing, played with those power windows all the time.

tjc78

And with the LeSabre, in 1984-85 the top level models actually used the same seats as a 1984 Electra,

Always liked those models. Great plush interiors, and a plush ride. Slow as all heck though!

andre1969

That must have been a rare sight, an early 60's Rambler with power windows! In those days, weren't they still "hard wired", or whatever they call it, sort of like the cigarette lighter or headlights, where you can work them even with no key in the ignition?

Oddly, with my '57 DeSoto, when you turn the key off it kills the power to the horn. I guess that's so you could leave your kids in the car and they wouldn't annoy people? Guess it was okay for them to roll up each others' heads in the windows, just as long as they didn't annoy people with the horn. :surprise:

My '57 only has crank windows, but I remember seeing a '59 with power windows, and you didn't need a key to work them. I bet that was great for the battery, too. :sick:

andre1969

Always liked those models. Great plush interiors, and a plush ride. Slow as all heck though!

It's funny, but back when Grandmom and Granddad got that car, we didn't think it was slow. But then, it had the 307 V-8, and their previous car had been a 1982 Malibu wagon with the 229 V-6. And at the time my Mom had a 1980 Malibu with that V-6, and my stepdad had a 1984 Tempo...talk about slow!

Grandmom quit driving in 1999, and gave me the LeSabre. By that time, it didn't seem nearly as fast as I remembered. It wasn't so hot from, say, 0-60, although I learned that if you shifted it manually, it definitely helped! It also liked to go into overdrive awfully quickly, where the engine was revving so lazy that it just had no power...even for an engine that got most of its torque down low. It was a good highway car, though. And if you got it up to about 90 mph (or at least to where the 85 mph speedo pegged) it would finally have enough power in that top gear. :shades:

It was also a very quiet car, which also probably contributed to making it seem slow. I have an old Consumer Guide that tested a similar '85 Delta 88 with the 307/4-speed automatic, and they got 0-60 in 12 seconds. Not horrible for that time, but I wonder if they even make cars that slow anymore?

texases

"That must have been a rare sight, an early 60's Rambler with power windows! "

I don't remember whether they worked with the ignition off, we only got to be in the car with an adult :P . I looked it up, it was a '61 Rambler Classic, never forget the tail lights:

lemko

How much to UNDO what he has in it so far like that garish blue? The engine doesn't even look right according to the pics with that non-stock air cleaner for one.

Mr_Shiftright

To say nothing of the cans of spray paint visible in the photos, a sure sign of a fastidious restorer.

"Krylon, the spray paint endorsed by Pebble Beach".

texases

And the odd thing, this seems to be a legit shop, with a fair amount of high-end performance work. Chelli's Performance Enterprises

Mr_Shiftright

Well he's not working on my Porsche that's for sure. Could be he's a better mechanical builder than restorer. Or a better mechanic than marketer.

One thing we know for sure. He doesn't read the Mustang Value Guide.

boomchek

They also have a Camaro they're selling, same kind of "retainer" they're asking for.

I don't know, it does sound a bit fishy. Maybe they are a elgit shop, maybe they're about to close their doors, and just want to squeeze some people out of money, maybe they are starting to get into the resto business and are not having luck with it.

One thing they should learn, is to use punctuation in basic sentences.

texases

"maybe they are starting to get into the resto business and are not having luck with it. "

These guys are nuts...yes, I'm going to pony up outrageous $$ to a supposed high-end car shop that can't spell 'Porsche'...they must need the cash for continued drug purchases :sick:

jlflemmons

3000 miles and has been in storage much of it's life, yet is restored? Say what???

And since when does restored come with a wheelbarrow full of aftermarket performance parts? For 50K???

Man, they must grow some fine dope up there in Vancouver. :confuse:

boomchek

Man, they must grow some fine dope up there in Vancouver

Some of the best in the world. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't mix with restoring cars as you can see in the last 2 ads. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

I'm sure it can race "Porschas" on the highway as long as you don't ever have to TURN. And not sure how that 500HP gets from the engine to the ground.

stevedebi

"These guys are nuts...yes, I'm going to pony up outrageous $$ to a supposed high-end car shop that can't spell 'Porsche'."

Well, maybe they are German - that is the pronunciation of Porche in German. Or maybe it's a fine day for dope up there.

The language in the ad screams out SCAM...

boomchek

I emailed them for fun, with questions that most posted here earlier, but received no response yet.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes but "ch" is a hard C in English, not the SH sound of German

I don't know anyone who says PORCH-A except a hillbilly. Italians use a similar word with a K sound but it's a bit rude.

fintail

And the "a" ("uh") sound is supposed to be very sharp and short...not "Porschuhhhh" as I hear from so many