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Comments
1987 Toyota 4X4 -- I'll bet that truck is already sold for asking price.
Cadillac -- did you use the words "nice looking" and "bustle" in the same sentence? I'm shocked, SHOCKED.
1968 AMC "Rebel" 770 -- this thing isn't even in the price guides. Not a good sign.
Too bad Jaguar didn't subcontract the electronics for the XJ and other models to a Japanese company, or even Ford, since Ford seemed to have fixed Jaguar's electrical problems . If Jaguar had subcontracted just the electronics, which are invisible, it wouldn't have diluted the image or character of their car(s). Electrical issues weren't the only problem with old Jaguars, but my sense of things is that they were the most annoying and troublesome source of problems. Customer satisfaction would have been much higher if the electronics had been reliable, even with the other issues, such as expensive brake jobs.
The XJ6 had electrical issues but also engineering issues. The "saddle" gas tanks leaked and to repair the darn things you had to remove the back half of the car; ditto the rear inboard brake rotors, which require dropping the entire differential assembly. Using rubber injection lines under the manifold where you can't repair them when they crack--that was fun. And using the AC to cool the fuel---not a good idea. When the AC conks out, the fuel starts to boil---not good. Under-sized radiators? Not good. Lots of water leaks in the windshield? Not good.
Nice looking car though :P
I think the Nova's a better looking car overall, though. And since these things were essentially badge-engineered, I don't think that the Ventura really gave you anything like a nicer interior, unless you sprang for an option package like the SJ or LJ or whatever it was called.
Now with "real" Pontiacs, like the LeMans, Grand Prix, and Catalina/Bonneville, I think in cases like this, you did get a slightly nicer interior. At least, I always thought the Grand Prix looked a bit nicer inside than comparable Monte Carlos, and I think my Grand LeMans is a bit nicer inside than a Malibu Classic.
I'd imagine model for model though, nowadays, a Chevy ANYTHING is worth more than its Pontiac counterpart. Maybe it's a closer match with something like the Firebird/Camaro, though?
I'm not sure what it was called, either, but Nova offered an upgraded Concours model in '76 and '77. I'm not sure exactly how that compared to its Ventura counterpart, but it was a very well appointed Nova.
Believe it or not, there's one parked out behind the building here at work, a brown one with a beige vinyl top. Hold on and lemme go out and look at it...
...I'm back. Had to walk past 5 generations of Accord to get to it, but it was back where it usually sits. I can't remember the last time I've seen it move. Also turns out it's black with a black vinyl top. It's just that between the dirt, rust, and the top seeming to bleach out, I swear the thing looks brown from a distance. Red interior. Not exactly what I'd call velour, but sort of felt-like? Fold down armrest up front, carpeting on the lower door panels, power locks (but crank windows). Stand up hood ornament and a special badge glued to the ploodgrain on the dash. Chevy rally wheels. Extra thick bodyside molding running the length of the car. 6 taillights instead of 4. And the snootier, chromey grille.
So maybe the Concours would still trump the Ventura LJ? I remember I liked the cloth material they used on the Ventura better (or Phoenix LJ, I guess it would've been, for '77-79). But I don't think the Pontiac's trim package gave you a different grille or taillights.
Overall though, I'd say this Nova Concours was a pretty nice package, considering what passed for compact luxury back in the 70's. I remember years ago, there was a 1976 or so Olds Omega Brougham for sale at a local park and sell. It had a velour interior that was really nice. Definitely a step up from this Nova Concours, so I guess GM was still trying to give you a reason to step up, even with these badge-engineered cars?
The Ventura write up is funny because the owner had a log book of when he tested the lights and horn and so on...... hmmmm, if it's sitting in the garage it's whole life I don't think it matters if the lights or horn work.
Must have been an eccentric individual who bought the car for the sake of preserving it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The Rebel SST had the 390CI option, beefier suspension, bigger brakes (I think. Seemed to stop a lot better).
I just remember seeing the late 60's and early 70's AMC products on the lot start rusting right where they sat on the lot. We used to get tasked with sanding and spray painting the underside of the hoods before sale, because the paint was so thin that rust would start. You could see it because there was no underhood thermal blanket.
On that rebel, I thought maybe 290 was a typo. Thought it should be 390. But then I looked it up and, sure enough, a 290 was available. All 200hp of it. Yikes!
I'd be all over that Toyota. Had an '87 4runner, albeit with the EFI, and my brother had an '84 pickup around the same time. It was useful to be able to steal parts from each other as needed (although the one being stolen from each time didn't think so). Worst thing either one experienced (and, actually, I believe they both did) was a head gasket. Pretty easy job, too.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If I was go after an 84-88 Toyota pickup, I would get a 4x4 extra cab model and try to replicate Marty McFly's Back to the Future truck. It's impossible to find those in good condition anymore.
58 Jag
Volvo 1800s discussed earlier
A rare sight these days
I dont' think I've seen a Falcon like this
Pace Setter Chrysler
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I agree...I like 'em as long as they left the factory fairly restrained to begin with. Actually, I saw one of the fake Eldo convertibles here at work yesterday, in all white. It wasn't too bad. I think the Eldo/Toro/Riv and Seville are actually one of the few designs that can pull off a carriage roof with some dignity...although I still prefer 'em without it.
I actually prefer the Toronado and Riviera, though. The Toro looks like a toned down Eldorado to me...more tasteful and a LOT less pimpy, whereas the Riv just had a classy, yet modern look to it. These two tended to be more reliable as well, since they usually had Olds 307's.
The '79 Monarch seems reasonably priced, if the mechanical condition matches the appearance. I wouldn't want it, though, even for $500. Those cars drive and ride terribly, and they're gas guzzlers. It had looks going for it when it was introduced, in '75, but in my view it has no redeeming qualities today.
That green Falcon two door is an okay car, but I think it's way overpriced, regardless of condition.
The Chrysler convert is a neat car.
I remember I had a somewhat eccentric teacher in high school who had a Monarch coupe as a town car (her other car was a then-new Caddy STS when those were a big deal - those horrible teacher's salaries. Her husband actually used an unrestored Model A Tudor as a daily driver). I think it must have had a 302/351 or whatever was used in them as she claimed it got 10mpg. She called it her "little butterfly".
Falcon is an oddball, but even with all the money given to it, it won't approach that price.
Something really rubs me the wrong way about that Chrysler, other than the 90s wheels. That lettering can't be correct, and some of the detail work doesn't look very well done.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
People are funny though. In the same ad:
"This engine will go 500,000 miles or more"
And THEN:
"Also replaced the head gasket which is a common issue"
Whoa! Back up. You're going too fast for me here... :P
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Volvo P1800 -- pretty strong price he's asking for a less than pristine car. Try $8,000, take $6,500 if you have to. This isn't a sport wagon BTW, so go to the proper line in the price guides. You'll notice than in this model, the newer the car, the more it's worth. This happens sometimes with collectibles.
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1958 Jaguar.
If you say 3.8L, 4 speed, wire wheels, you are in HEAVEN
If you say 3.4L, automatic, disc wheels, you are in Half Price Heaven.
Deduct $2000 for disk wheel, deduct $2000 for automatic, deduct $$$ for condition, and there you have it. Mabye a $10,000 car? $12K if you hit a home run? If you can sell it to ANYBODY? Tough sell, good luck pard'. Worst possible combination of features, driveline, wheels, trim level and color.
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I thought about that too, usually pace cars have multi font and colored lettering. The wheels look off as well. But then I checked around and found this:
And this official site with all of the previous pace cars.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
If the 250 I-6 is the same block as the 300 I-6, then the term bulletproof is applicable. If it's based on the 144/170/200 c.i. family of Ford engines, then it can better be described as well-tested and competitively durable, but bulletproof would be stretching it. I'm not sure which engine family the 250 belongs to. Does it date back to the new-for-'52 OHV I-6?
Regardless, the 6 cylinder Granadas/Monarchs were slugs. Most were equipped with the 302 V8, which provided decent performance. The 351 was the one to have, if you valued performance.
I guess the boring lettering isn't too off...now just get some proper wheels (hubcaps from a 63 Chrysler can't cost too much) and a white top!
Maybe not in 1991, but they were getting up toward that by 1996 or so as the yen steadily appreciated against the dollar.
For the most part, I think the 250 used in the Granadas put out 98 hp, although in some years it might have been less. I'm sure it had to be slug-like in the Granada.
I don't think the 250 was used in much else, in Ford's lineup. Their big cars and even their intermediates got too big and heavy to make use of Ford's 250-6. So even in something like a 1972-76 Torino or '77-79 LTD-II the 302 was standard...something I'm sure they tried to hype up as an advantage when Mopar and GM were still putting 6-cyl engines in their big cars.
Then when stuff like the Fairmont came out, the 250 was probably overkill. Heavy block and not much power, so for that car they used a standard 4-cyl with the 200-6 being optional, and the 302 above that.
I'd imagine a 351 in one of these cars would be a relatively fun ride. I think they were choked down to about 140 hp, but still probably had plenty of torque to move a Granada or Monarch.
I just dug up some old test stats, and found a 1977 Granada 302 at 0-60 in 14.2 seconds, quarter mile in 18.6. A '77 Monarch was worse...0-60 in 14.4 seconds, quarter mile in 20.1! Those numbers and plenty of others can be found here. Kinda sad, that by the 70's, you had to upgrade to the V-8 in a compact to get performance similar to what the 6-cyl got in the late 60's.
The 300 I-6 was also known for its gas swilling ways. In fact, it could drink many bigger displacement V8s under the table, so to speak.
The 4-cylinder was nothing to write home about, in terms of refinement and durability.
In fairness to the 250 I-6, I think a major reason for its mediocre performance, to be kind, was due to the porky nature of the Granada/Monarch twins. Their predecessors, the Maverick/Comet, also used that engine, but performed better because they were lighter. I think the four door Maverick/Comet were better cars than the Granada/Monarch. They not only accelerated quicker, but also rode and handled better. Of course, except for the Maverick/Comet equipped with the LDO trim package, which I think looked pretty nice, the Granada/Monarch looked much more upscale. Ford did achieve its appearance objective.
No way I'd call it a project. So I guess he was just looking for a convertible to cruise around in.
He bought a '99 Saab 93 SE. automatic, dark green over tan leather, 120k miles.
All I could think was "yikes!"
He's happy with it ... for now.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
This is EXACTLY why I no longer offer to help people to find "fun" or "project" cars anymore.
They invariably give out a list of their supposed wants, then patiently listen to my pros and cons and other suggestions.....and then go buy a Hummer.
I think people need to "confess" what they THINK they should be buying, and then go out and satisfy their actual dark little desires. :P
Me? Guilty as charged.
for my father or the Saab?
or me?
;P
And I couldn't agree with you more. And its not just project cars, of course. Its any car. I might have 1 person out of 20 who actually listens to me when they ask for my advice. And even then its not to the fullest. I may be able to steer them away from a Yugo, but then they'll just buy the first Daewoo they come across without consulting me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Here's yet another 1975 Monaco, trying to be something that it isn't. I kinda like this one, though.
I kinda like the Monaco fire car too, looks well done.
He bought a brand new Hyundai Tiburon for her.
That Dodge donk-style thing has exterior Marine speakers. Does it mean it can do water fording Jeep style? Must be trail rated, :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Well, good thing she's got that long warranty--it's going to come in handy.
Friend did same thing for his 16 year old son, quickly discovered that 2-door + teenage son = MAJOR insurance bills, traded it it for a Corolla, I think.
Heck, I quit recommending cars after I talked someone into a brand-new '94 Civic that turned out to be a piece of crap. So I figure that if a Honda that I recommended turned out to be junky, the fates must really be against me! :sick:
I actually talked my Granddad out of an Intrepid! He really liked my 2000 when he first saw it. However, it has some blind spots, and the corners are almost invisible. It's a car that takes some getting use to when it comes to parallel parking and other tight maneuvers. Plus, it's not that easy for older people to get in and out of, and he had just turned 85 when I bought that car.
Oops, I take that back, about not recommending cars to people. Back in 2004, one of my friends who had a 1995 Grand Marquis with about 175,000 miles on it, wanted a newer car. I went to CarMax with him. He had his heart set on this 2003 Grand Marquis GS with about 20,000 miles that they wanted $18K for. Well, there was an '04 Crown Vic LX, with only 10K miles on it, for $17K. It was also a bit better equipped, with leather seats, alloy wheels instead of wire hubcaps, etc.
He ended up buying the Crown Vic, but every once in awhile wishes he bought the Mercury. He even bought a stand-up Mercury hood ornament and had it mounted on the car! :surprise:
My two sons shared that car while they were both in high school, then the oldest took it with him to college. He kept it for another 6 or 7 years before it was totaled by a rock through the rear window (yeah - the rear window cost more than the car was worth at that time). At that point, he was out working so bought himself a used Acura TL Type S. After putting up with the Tracer for al those years, he has really babied the Acura.
65 Dodge
Seller could be a little more specfic on location
Another Impala
Scooby Doo
Special BMW
BMW with Alpina drivetrain: cool car, not sure about the vinyl top, if it's in fact vinyl, or the price. :surprise:
I think you might be able to get an authentic 5 or even 7 series Alpina of that vintage for that price.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
That Benz has 4 photos, each one of them not really showing much. :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
People selling cars on CL need to be required to use an external image hosting service - there are many free ones out there - so better images can be provided.