Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

michaellno

1983 - Denver:

Oh, dear. What a waste.

One for Andre?

Before CUV's ruled the world, there was this

This car isn't green, it's gray ... oh, wait ... now I get it

Double your pleasure, double your fun ... uh, NOT!

For as nice as this looks, and for the money invested, you would think the owner would know how to spell the marque name

Return of the mullet!

Guess there just aren't the nice choices in Denver as there are in Seattle.

boomchek

I don't even think the "Porshe" owner knows what model that is or what motor it comes with.

fintail

I could see Andre with the Imperial.

W123 is a nice color...although that might be all.

Are those "Porshe" wheels really correct for a 944? They look wrong to me. Looks like an amateur project money pit.

british_rover

Oh man I loved those SX4s.

Anyone else think BMW stole the design of the SX4 for the X6?

fintail

I don't want to be called an "automatikfahrer" by other cyclists :shades: ...so the bike would have to be subtle. The two I have looked at don't stick out, to me anyway.

I think the 80s styling is kind of cool, maybe because I remember it from back in the day. The trim pieces have to truly be unobtanium though, and it seems around here most of those bikes that remain have not led easy lives.

andre1969

I do like that Imperial. I think that it pulled off that bustleback look better than its rivals. The 1980-85 Cadillac Seville was kinda cool in its own right, but a bit on the pimpy side. And that little Fairmont-based Continental of roughly 1982-87 just seemed kinda old fogey. But the '81-83 Imperial had a futuristic look to it, and makes me think of something Darth Vader might drive, especially in black.

I have a friend who has one, an '81 I think. Still has the original fuel injection, while most of them were converted to 2-bbl carbs. Nice car except for one thing...it's brown!

andre1969

Of course, since I busted on them in my last post, now I find a Continental I actually kinda like...mainly for that dark emerald green color.

Dunno much about Porsches, but this 944 doesn't look bad.

Paint job's kinda silly, but otherwise this 5-series don't look too bad.

Decently preserved Crown Vic in period earth-tones.

I was starting to be impressed when I saw they spelled "Alfa" and "Romeo" correctly, but they lost me at "convertable"

Nice pic of the asphalt in this Mark VI ad.

Cheap hauler...I imagine the engine should last forever.

Oh, the humanity.

This '83 Silverado doesn't seem bad for the price. Although I don't care for that "designer" interior, and I wonder how much the lowering hurt the utility. And I'm learning to be leery of vehicles that have had potentially half-assed engine swaps or "upgrades".

I guess Diesel-mania hasn't hit the DC area yet judging from the price, but from the sounds of it, this one might need some work.

If it's just a 380, is this one just a poseur-mobile? Not bad looking, but then everything looks better wet.

Rare because it's a truly special, prestigious breed, or rare because nobody wanted it new?

Another Diesel Benz...miled up, but might still have some life left in her.

Isn't the North Carolina State Tree one of these wrapped around a telephone pole? Still, might not be bad if it all checks out.

Another Benz Diesel...this one looks kinda nice.

Shortbed GMC Sierra that looks nice in spite of its miles. Wish he'd mention which engine it has.

Mr_Shiftright

Does that Camaro come with a cheap handgun under the seat?

qbrozen

Don't say I didn't warn you!

Do NOT click if you recently ate!

qbrozen

This one seems it may actually be well done.

Probably a good thing it is nowhere near me.

fintail

Would almost be cool - like a ute - if it didn't have all that garbage stuck on it. What a waste of money.

fintail

Wow, what a list!

When I was a kid, my aunt had one of those fake bustle Continentals. I don't remember it in any detail, I think I only rode in it once.

That 5er with the period racing paint scheme is pretty cool looking. The old European Touring Car racers might have worn that, and others (M1 I think) were painted in that scheme back in the day. Of course, no doubt that car has no racing upgrades.

The 300K mile $1000 300D is overpriced - sounds like it has a lot of issues. The cars can being decent money to the cult if they are sorted out, but when they have needs, the price drops fast.

The 380SL is the only model available that year. IIRC we never got the 5-litre 107, we had to wait for the 560SL in 1986. Price seems average.

Lancia is a [non-permissible content removed] stepchild of the marque...Shifty can go off about those...

qbrozen

Truly looks to be as nice as the seller describes.

What do you think that's worth, Shifty?

Mr_Shiftright

Alfa LS Sedan -- I used to have one of those----really fun car to drive---the engine note is beautiful. This is a FWD car you know? It's a risky car in many ways, so it would depend on how it checks out and what the service records are. For instance, the required valve adjustment is a real project. Electrical gremlins abound (of course).

I'd say about $4500 is a fair price for all concerned, and having an Alfa specialist in the immediate area is an absolute prerequisite.

tjc78

And that little Fairmont-based Continental of roughly 1982-87 just seemed kinda old fogey.

I always thought that was on the same platform as a Mark VII or Thunderbird.

Edit.... that is the Fairmont/Fox platform! Learn something new everyday, gotta love wikipedia!

boomchek

I think that Bimmer with the M stripes looks sharp, but not for the price he's asking. South of $5k would be more like it even with the paint job and wheels.

I like the last truck, the blue Sierra, looks nice and clean with decent 90s style wheels too.

As for the Camaro, I can't believe how little hp they had even with a V8 motor. The odd speedo (never seen one like that in mph and km/h only goes up to 85 mph. What a joke! That's pretty pathetic.

When I was a kid back in Poland, and spotted import cars like a Fiat, Alfa, or somethng german, I'd always look (all kids did) at the speedos to see what the top speed on it was. So I was used to average econoboxes having 200km/h (120mph) speedometers or more.

So imagine my dissapointment when I came to Canada and noticed that almost all domestic cars had lousy speedometers that topped out at 160 or 180km/h (100-110mph).

European cars always have overrated speedos, but maybe because they use the same ones from the lowest models to the most high performance models.

With domestic cars, maybe the numbers are low to try and prevent people from speeding although the numbers on the speedo face have nothing to do with the actual top speed a car is capable of.

lokki

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230367117605&ssPag- eName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#v4-37

A 67 Boat-tail Duetto is sort of the holy grail for me, but I don't think you could get much off this one but the trim and the vin... :sick:

Still - think you could "put the rust to sleep for a while" if you got in for $ 3K or so?

jlflemmons

The speedometers were changed when the Carter administration mandated a 55MPH national speedlimit. Cars produced during that era typically had 85MPH speedo's, which put 55 in the area where 70 is on a 120MPH speedo.

My '66 Mustang w/ 200ci six had a 140MPH speedo, even though it topped out at a whopping 92. With the brakes that thing had, 92 was too fast!

Mr_Shiftright

don't see how you could come out alive on the Duetto. Top dollar right now might be $20,000 for a real beauty, and you aren't going to restore that car for $28,000, that's for sure. And you'll always have a car with metal patches everywhere.

it would be better as a parts car, and marginal at best even for that, since what everyone wants is good body panels.

fintail

I think most American cars from the 60s had 120mph speedos - all of the 60s cars in my family have had one, and the fintail has that maximum, too. Then the energy crisis and asinine laws hit, and 85 was the usual max, with "55" highlighted. In the 90s when people woke up, the labels changed again - I am pretty sure the 93 Taurus my mom had back in the day went to 100, and 120 might be standard again now. All gas MB I have seen made in the past 25 years go to 160 or more, and I remember my friend's old 92 Accord read 140 - which of course was hilariously impossible.

boomchek

85 seems so silly for a car like the Camaro, that's suppose to be a high powered, high speed sports car.

explorerx4

i just checked, my 91 mustang 140, 07 fusion 120, 09 escape, 120.

qbrozen

Well, I may not be an "alfa specialist," but if we could figure some equation where you accept less of a "specialist" the closer you get to home, I'd probably just have to keep fixing it myself, like I did the Spider.

In any case, after a few minutes of real thought put into it, I've realized it is not a good choice as my DD.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but you need special tools for the 164LS, and valve adjustments are a shim-design, and extremely critical. And even if you do most of your own work, you'll need to set up your parts network so that you don't have too much downtime.

And for things like small trim pieces, and glass---I don't know where you'd start looking for that stuff.

qbrozen

so that you don't have too much downtime.

That's pretty much the main reason for not doing it.

Mr_Shiftright

If you can't abide downtime, you can't abide an Alfa, that's true. There's always a few days delay for UPS deliveries.

hondaowner10

That color scheme has to be one of the worst I have ever seen. I can't begin to imagine who thought neon green and orange was a good color combination.

qbrozen

Yeah, its something I need to keep in mind. With the 2nd kid on the way, there are some days I won't be able to fall back on the Z. The DD, although I think can be well used, needs to be readily fixable. So a strong parts network (and relative ease of repair) is important.

gsemike

I guess that you could live in it

Probably too expensive Are those moon hubcaps?

As always, I have no idea how to price these but this looks good given the miles

No pic but it doesn't matter He's dreaming

This is probably good if it's what you're looking for You don't ever see these untouched like that anymore

This would have Lemko's name written all over it except for one thing

Really stand out for $8879

Another hard to find unmolested car

Very clean, very low miles but why?

0-60 measured in hours

Who put rims on this????

fintail

The 240D is harmless enough, but slooooow, at least as bad as that rare and sought after Ranger diesel.

Camaro and RX7 look like harmless deals too.

The Lotus will catch on fire sometime, guaranteed.

boomchek

The camper could be used as a house. Those things probably weren't cheap back in 83, maybe $50k at least?

MB Diesel is priced about right.

Camaro looks decent except you can probably get one 5 to 10 years newer for about the same money.

Lotus Esprit is neat too. But probably better suited as a display piece in the garage than a driver.

I think I posted that Scirocco here before. I don't think he'll ever get that money for that car. Ever.

Sometimes I secretly ponder the idea of owning an Aries. Not sure why.

gsemike

Even if the VW is the best on Earth, it's not worth that money. How does such a common car average 280 miles a year anyway?

Mr_Shiftright

You WILL stand out with that Lotus Esprit Turbo because your car will probably catch fire sooner than later. Money pit. Run away.

Mercedes 240D -- priced fair enough but sloowwww is hardly the word. It's actually possible to get trapped in the right lane of a freeway for hours if you come up behind a breakdown or obstacle---you wouldn't *dare* pull out to try and pass anyone. Could take you 20+ seconds to go 0-60. Nice city putt-putt or join the cooking grease cult.

1983 RX-7 -- the phrase "all it needs is tires" is tossed out so casually these days, as if any kind of decent tire you'd put your life on costs $5 apiece or somthing. Still if you could bargain on it, that's cheap fun.

texases

That '83 Scirocco - why spend that money on a car that 1) disappointed many in its stlying, compared to the gen. 1, and b) had less performance than the GTI (it wasn't until '84 that it got the GTI's 'big' 90 hp engine)?

jlflemmons

That Pace Arrow was a high-end motor home when new, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING, depreciates like an RV. The only exception is the Airstream trailers, but compared to new price, they still take a big hit in resale.

Oddly enough, one of the more sought after "older" motor homes is the GMC front wheel drive (Toronado drive train) monolith from the early '70's. Aerodynamic (relatively speaking) and actually handled pretty good. Also relatively speaking.

explorerx4

i read a story a while back about restored GMC motor homes

british_rover

Ha I actually worked on one of those old Toronado drive train GMCs a couple of times.

It pulled up to my shop for an oil change and a check out. I hadn't seen one before got underneath it and was blown away.

It actually drove pretty good.

fintail

Those things are pretty cool for motorhomes. If I had one, I would want it with a period style restoration - vibrant ugly paint and accurate interior.

andre1969

I wonder how much those rims on the '83 LeSabre coupe are worth? That car might not be a bad deal if it's relatively un-molested otherwise. You could sell the rims, maybe recoup some of your outlay. Only downside is that you'd need to replace those wheels and tires. Not too terribly expensive, but still a cost.

lemko

Those rims would be gone in a New York second and replaced with some proper 15" Buick factory wheels if I bought that car.

That old Pace Arrow looks like a new home for Cousin Eddie!

andre1969

That old Pace Arrow looks like a new home for Cousin Eddie!

Hoooo-Weee, I don't know why they call it Hamburger Helper; it does just fine by itself!! :P

I used to be big into motorhomes when I was a kid, and one of my relatives subscribed me to "Motorhome" magazine. I might still have some of them packed away somewhere, but sadly, I think most of 'em got thrown out. I vaguely remember them testing a Pace Arrow of that vintage. You could get them on either a Ford or Chevy chassis as I recall, but Dodge was out of the big motorhome market after 1978.

Sometimes I think it would still be neat to have an old motorhome, but I imagine the thing would be a real money pit. I always thought these things were really cool:

Mr_Shiftright

The problem with old motorhomes is that some of the aesthetics inside are pretty grotesque. You gotta love orange shag carpet, lime vinyl, the .10 cent door hardware, the smell of the holding tanks, and the creaking rattlling fiberglass as you roll down the road.

I kinda like the one you posted though. It's svoopy-doopy and not too large.

texases

I always thought the BMW-powered Vixen was kind of neat, but not very roomy:

gsemike

That's awesome how they retained the old Ddoge van grille and headlights

andre1969

Back in 2000, before the tech bubble burst and ensuing chaos, I came close to buying a 1974 Travco 220 motorhome...very similar to this one, and the same color. It was a neat little rig, packing a lot into its 22 foot body. I was impressed that, as short as it was, it still had a private bedroom in the back. One area where it saved room, I guess, was with the dinette. Instead of having two seats up front, one of the dinette seats was reversible, and doubled as the passenger seat.

Once I saw the thing up close, though, I picked up a bad vibe, and decided not to do it. Probably a good thing too, because a few weeks later I got fed up with my second job and quit it, and soon after that the economy started to tank, so I wouldn't have had the time nor the money to fool around with it.

It was still a bulky beast, too, as it was as tall and wide as any typical motorhome, but just shorter. I'm sure it would've been more cumbersome than that other thing I posted, which is a Rectrans Discoverer, 25 feet long I believe.

andre1969

There's an old movie from 1972 or 1973 called "Slither", with James Caan and Sally Kellerman in it, that features two of those babies in action. They were painted black for the movie, and were quite sinister looking. There's a chase scene towards the end involving a '72 Impala pulling an Airstream trailer and the two motorhomes, which is pretty impressive for the time. It wasn't exactly "Bullit", but considering they were dealing with big RVs in a pre-big budget/CGI world, still pretty cool.

I thought it was pretty cool, too, how they were able to retain the Dodge identity of the thing, but it wasn't just a Dodge van cab with a motorhome body built on. Back around 1999 or 2000, our local park and sell lot had a similar motorhome that was based on a Chevy platform, and was able to integrate the van grille and headlights into it as well. I don't think it was built by Rectrans, though. For some reason I'm thinking Sportscoach or Coachmen, but there were tons of motorhome builders in those days, so I guess it could've been anybody. It was white with the requisite period orange/yellow/burnt-sienna color accents and shag carpet. Looked like something that could give you an STD!

fintail

This was on NPOCP, interesting sleeper

"Are you looking for something other than a Mustang"

Mr_Shiftright

One that will sleep forever I'm afraid. Can you imagine trying to steering that thing around a turn? I guess you could put on a NASCAR suspension and stay on smooth roads.

andre1969

That thing actually sounds like fun! My grandparents had a 1981 Granada coupe similar to that, except it was a two-tone, and just had the 200 straight six. I think the best engine you could get in them that year was a 255 V-8 putting out 112 hp.

Maybe that Mustang GT engine is a bit overkill, but it sounds like the seller beefed the car body up, as well.

boomchek

That Granada reminds me of how ugly and nondescript domestic cars looked during those years. :sick: