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Comments
Were the engines OK? :P
what is one of those things worth, in real life? I always thought they were kinda neat, in an oddball sort of way. Although I think this is one of those examples of a design where the 4-door version actually looks better!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So this guy at $13,000 is about $11,000 overpriced at the moment, given the condition of what he is selling.
Another stunning example of: "It's rare, and nobody cares".
At that asking price, he'll be buying it lots of birthday cakes.
Shifty can probably chime in with more accuracy, but I would say a really decent one of those is worth no more than 5-6K...maybe up to 10 or so for a really perfect low mileage concours one. Even though the MB SLC is what I consider their most disco-fied car, I would take one over the Jag.
You know, some cars really don't look good as coupes, and the XJ is one example of that, as are most of the Benzes....a coupe is NOT always better or even more valuable.
I recall you saying that it was, and is, an extremely fun car to have and drive.
Really it's the American cars that benefitted from the coupe style, since in the 40s-60s the sedans weren't very attractive as a rule. The 4-door sedan was the "utility" or "workhorse" of the line up and even the luxury models of the 4-doors looked just like the taxicabs but with more chrome.
it "looks like it runs"! Wait, let me get my wallet...
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/133150777.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The seats on the 95-97 SEs are really comfy with big bolsters to keep you in place. Not so comfy for those super-sized folks but I liked them.
So I can't remember if that was old enough to be from the BMW era with the two different V8 blocks, one was a N-something and one was a K-something, I think (not sure). Apparently, one of the blocks had a problem with the cylinder bores. Buying a car from that era was like a roulette game.
I remember the 12 cyl models of that style had depreciated to nothing even 10 years ago.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think the Dart GT looks like it could be the basis for a nice project. Pretty cheap, easy to work on, and not valuable if authentic, so you can pretty much do whatever you want to with it.
I personally would like a 1970ish Dart/Duster 340 4 speed. I know there was one year that was the best, but I forget which one.
American Muscle Car did a show on them not too long ago. Plus, my 2nd car was a Duster, so I still have fond memories of doing stupid things in it (the sunroof came in handy in quite a few ways..)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If I was to pick a favorite year for the Demon/Duster/Sport style, I'd go for a '72 Demon. Just something about the front-end that year looks aggressive, almost evil!
Dart GT -- it would be fun as long as you don't want to stop or steer at high speed. But with some upgrades, it might be okay. Tires, shocks, sway bar, that sort of thing.
I still think any modern 4 cylinder car of decent displacement would easily keep pace with it, though. Those old engine/trans powertrains are very inefficient so they gobble up or waste a lot of horsepower.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They might be inefficient by today's standards, but for the time were pretty good. One definite advantage the Dart/Valiant had was that it used a 3-speed automatic. Most compacts and even many larger cars were still stuck with archaic 2-speeds which would usually give you a 1-2 punch by hindering both acceleration AND fuel economy.
I dunno if a '65 Dart GT would have 10" brakes with the V-8. By the late 60's, I know they put in larger brakes for V-8 models. My '69 Dart 225 only had 9" drums, but my '68 318 has 10" drums all around. They're pretty good at stopping the car, provided they're adjusted correctly. Sure, you get some yahoo who's only used to modern cars behind the wheel, and you can have fun watching them kill themselves, but once you get used to 'em, they're not that bad. Heck, I've logged over 100,000 miles between my two Darts, and lived to tell about it! :P
This is why there is such a brisk aftermarket in retro-rods. Modern owners of old cars want good steering and brakes.
Best thing is, parts tend to be cheap on these, and you can often retrofit better components from other models (or later versions). There isn't that much of a difference between a '65 and '75 Dart, is there?
I remember reading once that you could take most of a modern car (A Camaro) chassis and stick it right onto a '57 Chevy 9suspension/steering/brakes), which sounds plausible.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As for Darts, you could get disc brakes for them back in the 60's...it was something like a $23.00 option. Nobody really cared, though. Part of the problem might have been that once you get disc brakes, a power booster is almost mandatory, and I think the power assist is where much of the cost came in.
I think it was 1973 when disc brakes became really common on Darts and Valiants. It'll swap onto the older drum-brake models, but I think you have to also swap either the upper or lower control arm, as one of them was changed for use with disc brakes. The '73-76 disc brakes also use the larger 4.5" bolt pattern, which brings the Dart in line with the rest of the Chrysler lineup of cars. The drum brake Darts and the pre-1973 disc brake ones used the smaller 4" bolt pattern.
I know a guy with a '59 Dodge Coronet with the D-500 option. He converted it to 4-wheel discs. There's actually a conversion kit you can get for the front that uses Aspen/Volare brakes. That bothers me a bit, because, I dunno, but I'd rather have drum brakes on a big car that were ENGINEERED for a big car, rather than disc brakes that were engineered for a compact! Unless it used copcar brakes. My '89 Gran Fury, which was Volare-based, used the same disc brakes as my '79 New Yorker.
As for the rear axle, his '59 Coronet has an 8 3/4 rear end out of an old Challenger/Barracuda (the E-body rear axle is within millimeters of the old full-sized Mopars) and the disc brakes come from, IIRC, a 1979-85 Eldorado.
I've thought about getting my '57 DeSoto's brakes converted, because they're annoying as hell. They actually do a commendable job stopping the car...12-inch "Total Contact" drums will do that for ya! But they're overly complicated. You need a special wheel puller to get to the rear brakes, and the front brakes actually employ TWO cylinders on each wheel! It makes the shoes apply to the drums more evenly, but it also adds complexity and there's just more to adjust. And I figure hell, the thing needs new brakes anyway, so maybe I'll just take the plunge and go disc!
Didn't buy a car without front disks after that episode!
Sad thing was, the family car at the time (which I learned to drive on) was a 1969 Volvo 144. Fantastic 4 wheel disks (non power too, Andre), although they did squeal most of the time. At least we always knew when my parents where almost home.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I've also driven cars without brakes though (don't worry, NOT for any long length of time...maybe 10 miles, tops) so maybe that's why it doesn't bother me so much.
For a brief period of time, I had a 1967 Chrysler Newport. 383-2bbl, nothing really fancy, but I'd guess it weighed about 2 tons. It had drum brakes, non-power. Before me it belonged to a little old lady. Now for me it was no big deal to drive (until the brakes failed on it), but I just can't imagine a fraile little old lady driving a 2-ton car like that with non-power brakes!
Oh, I've also run disc-brake cars through big puddles, and had loss of braking power. I remember doing it with my grandma's '85 LeSabre. And my 1980 Malibu. It's scary enough when you do it in an all-drum car and expect them to fail, but even scarier when you're in a disc car and DON'T expect them to fail! :surprise:
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/133897655.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/133896111.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
And, for a NJ car, it seems to have held up quite well!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Now some Mopars did have a sub-frame that was isolated from the structure by these big rubber grommets, so theoretically you could just unbolt it and the suspension, engine, and tranny would drop right out. My '79 NYer is like this, and I'm pretty sure my '89 Gran Fury was, too. I forget where the torsion bars hook in though...can't remember if it's part of the subframe assembly or some part that's welded to the body structure.
AFAIK though, the rear sub-frames were always welded in. I'd imagine that the Challenger's front sub-frame's welded in, too. It was based on the midsized platform, which didn't go to the isolated sub-frame until 1974-79 (and the '79-81 R-body derivative).
The last body-on-frame Mopar car was the 1966 Imperial, which used the same platform from 1957. All the other brands went unitized for 1960.