Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lemmer

Or are 928s really worth $50K?

fintail

Well, I guess if you must have a 928, a GTS is the way to go. 25-30K maybe?

One for lemko

Mr_Shiftright

Oh that's a 912E--that car is a mutt with a VW engine in it from a 411. All the money at $8K...a "real" 912 would bring up to $12K

bumpy

The asking price on this one is pure democracy in action, though.

stickguy

THIS RARE OPPRTUNITY IS THE BY-PRODUCT OF A WICKED, TORRID DIVORCE. THE SELLER'S EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT AND CARE FOR THIS GTS EXCEEDED ANYTHING THAT WAS EVER PUT INTO THE RELATIONSHIP .

Doesn't that explain a few things?

fintail

Lovely color for a nice car

Oh the humanity

Probably the highest mileage example ever

This looks like a better than most survivor

Not a bad deal if you look at it soley from a size perspective

Looks better than most, but that's steep

lilengineerboy

I'm down with the TR8. A little domestic Buick aluminum love in the British wedge. Those limos you gotta watch out for. When they get stretched like that, they are only as strong as the place that did the conversion. There was a lot of press a couple of years ago about Hummer and Expedition limos, when the OEMs said they never designed the frames to handle something like that. Basically, they said certain cars can be modified by approved coach-builders to make a safe "authorized" limo, and the hack jobs they can't be responsible for.

au1994

can't quite make out the price. Is it 4995?

andre1969

I couldn't make it out either, but then I went to the website and yeah, it's $4995. If it had low miles and was in really nice shape, I'd almost be tempted, as I kinda like these. However, the ad doesn't say how many miles it has.

Otherwise, it has a leather interior and the ad says it has a 3.4. But it lists the fuel economy (19/29) of the 3.1. I'm not sure, but I think in the Cutlass Supreme, the only 3.4 you could get that year was the DOHC version, which put out something like 200-215 hp, and had a nice, broad range of power, where in comparison the 3.8 would be close in 0-60, but would lose out in passing, higher-end performance, etc.

I always liked these, even though they still had that damned basket-handle B-pillar/roll bar which, IMO, kept it from being a "true" convertible.

bumpy

Yep, $5000 for a ten-year-old domestic convertible with obvious dings and dents.

fintail

I know these have at least a small following

And yeah, I expect that sad W140 limo to bend/sag at the middle

xwesx

:surprise: and an auto tranny, no less!

xwesx

Oh the humanity

Look at the wheelbase on that thing! That would be impossible to drive here... heck, you'd bottom out over a frost heave! :surprise:

fintail

I dunno about that steering wheel, but looks like a nice survivor otherwise

andre1969

that this ragged beast is nothing more than demolition derby fodder at this point, for for some twisted reason it appeals to me. I always liked that funky hardtop coupe style that the later versions of the LeSabre, Delta, and Catalina used. I think the Bonneville might have used it in '74 as well, but I think for '75-76 the Bonneville coupes all had fixed windows.

If I really needed a beater to drive around it, I'd consider it.

fintail

"This is your basic Mercedes-Benz wheelbarrow." - this seller doesn't beat around the bush about this car not being nice

ghulet

...is interesting if only for its options. Don't think I've ever seen one configured quite like that--power windows on a Catalina are a bit strange, and it has the highly unusual cornering lamps (the white things, standard on Cadillacs and Lincolns, non-flashing illumination when cornering).

michaellno

Um, how many miles? For how much?

Somehow, I don't think the picture is of the actual car for sale

Price seems high for the miles on this one, too

Looks good in the pictures, but probably needs a fair amount of work

One for fintail

smithed

Andre, buy it. There must be $200 in scrap steel in that old thing. If you were to enjoy it for only one day, it might be worth the $200. Or set it in your driveway and let it rust away, just to annoy the neighbors

fintail

Seems a bit steep given the work needed

LOL at "Toyota Red Color sports car"

'one for fintail' is that same old Nova..oops

michaellno

This should be the car for fin

bumpy

Anyone need a C/10?

The last of the "good" Es

"Going back to Jeeps, more room to work on the engine." Yeah, I bet.

This has an extra 0

This one seems to be underpriced.

A friend for Andre's Bonneville

More temptation for Andre

Must not have been a good year

andre1969

looks like a total rat, but hey, at least it has a big-block under the hood! I wonder which one it is? That year they offered a 175 hp 400 dog motor, a 260 hp 400, and a 280 hp 440. There was also a 330 hp 440 6-pack, but I can tell it's not that one.

I'm guessing it's probably the dog-motor?

I like that '67 Catalina, but geeze, that's like 2 1/2 times what I paid for my convertible! It better be in DAMN good shape for that price!

And I kinda like that '69 C-10. Maybe I should go put a bullet in my '85, and replace it with that one? :shades:

lemmer

Shifty,

What is with this old thing? Is it worth the asking price?

fintail

That's a lovely old 109, but unfortunately he's still a bit steep by a few grand. They just don't bring big money.

I think the extra '0' on that Infiniti came from the Chevelle.

fintail

The car is OK enough, but look at all the room in that engine bay with that little engine. Wow

fintail

I thnik they are a year or two off...but this looks like a really nice example. Great colors.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh yeah, that car (if in very good shape) should be worth $12,000--$15,000. It's a steal at $5K if it's a straight car. You could double your money.

Wouldn't call it "rare" though--they made about 7,000 of them....

jrosasmc

Speaking of Italian cars it just occurred to me- Is there any particular reason why most Ferraris need a major service performed at 30K miles? It seems as if they need either valve jobs or timing belts done around that time.

I wonder what would happen to a Ferrari if someone maintained it like a Toyota or Chevy.

Mr_Shiftright

Ferraris are built to a very narrow engineering range, that is, to perform at extremes of endurence and rpm.

if you maintained a Ferrari like a Chevy or Toyota it would blow up.

If you drove a Toyota or Chevy like a Ferrari, they would blow up.

british_rover

I was just talking to a customer of mine and on his new Ferrari at like 9,000 or 12,000 miles he needs a complete service that includes removal of the engine to do the timing chain.

I don't even remember how much it cost at this point cause my mind drifted away as we were looking at his car.

Mr_Shiftright

For just about any used Ferrari, figure roughly $1.50 a mile to drive and maintain it (not including gas and insurance).

So if you see that old 308 or 328 for a tasty price, keep in mind that you haven't begun to spend yet. With a Ferrari, a 60,000 mile car is practically a parts car---not that they won't go 60K, not at all, but that the maintenance requirements get higher and higher.

This is why you see so many Ferraris being sold just shy of the 30K mark---because that's when the $6,000 major serivce is due.

fintail

Looks like a good old beater

Mr_Shiftright

too much money for a rat I think.

gsemike

I'm not crazy about 64s and5s and 4 doors in general, but for a driver, $1200 doesn't buy much. You can get that or an early 90s GM or Ford intermediate, the choice is yours.

My niece's boyfriend bought a pretty worn Taurus for $1100. At least the Malibu will be easy to work on.

fintail

That's what I was thinking....probably better than some clapped out old Celebrity or Lumina or Taurus that's a head gasket or tranny away from the crusher.

andre1969

I'm also not really a fan of the '64-65 Chevelle, but hey, for $1200 there are bigger pieces of junk out there. Now if it were a Special, Tempest, or F-85 I'd actually be more willing to fork over the $1200. I know a Chevelle is probably worth more than the B-O-P triplets, but from those years, I just like them better than the Chevelle.

lilengineerboy

I was thinking how ridiculous it is to drop the motor for basic maintenance, then I realized the Subaru requires some motor twisting to get the plugs out/adjust the valves, (I think its loosening the motor mount and twisting it to clear the frame rail, the price of a low CG I guess) and the Porsche Boxter doesn't even have a hood. At 60k, the motor is dropped, the plugs and belts changed, and re-installed. Again, might be part of why so many Boxters get dumped at 58k. As a caveat, I don't think its terribly difficult to pull the engine, but it has to come out through the bottom, so I would imagine its dropping the whole sub frame.
As an aside, I'm down with the old school Chevelle. It just needs a drop, airbags and some 20s :P . Okay, just kidding.

andre1969

a buck fifty per MILE?! Jeezus Chrysler! I kept pretty good records on my '68 Dart, and it ran around 11 CENTS per mile, plus gas & insurance. And that was taking it from 253,000 miles to 338,000. And amortizing the $1700 purchase price over those 85,000 miles!

Heck, I think even my Intrepid, which now has around 114,000 miles on it, only cost around 27 cents per mile, plus gas & insurance. And that's including the purchase price ($22,389 out the door, with tax, tags, an extended warranty I never had the pleasure of using, etc) amortized over those miles.

I used to joke that the Intrepid's cost per mile would never get down to the level of the Dart's cost per mile, but after hearing $1.50 per mile for a Ferrari, those other cpms are negligible!

Now would the Ferrari's cost per mile go down if you drove it more? For example, if I drove my Intrepid more and, say, it had 150,000 miles on it rather than 114,000, the cpm would be lower, because most likely I wouldn't have had to put much more $ into it, other than maintenance and maybe some tires, while the big cost factors would be spread over higher miles. Or is a Ferrari so high-maintenance that if you drive it more, you just get to the point where more things break on it quicker?

fintail

I don't see what's so "GT" about it

andre1969

Back when I had my '69 Dart GT, which just had a slant six and was all looks and no muscle, a friend of mine called it the "Get There" edition. As in, if you hop in the car and it gets you where you're going, you got off lucky.

Sad thing is, she was driving a brand new '89 Escort at the time, and I swear my 20 year old Dart was more reliable than that thing! I remember her also being utterly amazed that I had a 2-door car with rear windows that rolled down.

imidazol97

>"Get There" edition

That's great. Made my laugh for the evening!!!

>rear windows that rolled down

I'll bet they went ALL the way down, didn't they. I'd forgotten that some cars used to have those instead of windows that went down about 10 inches.

fintail

I think I'd take the Dart over the Escort

Mr_Shiftright

You're paying for a fantastic experience in a Ferrari---it's not like an ordinary car. You want to fly the space shuttle or fly to Erie PA? If you want to go 180 mph and stay there all day long you can do that in a Ferrari.

A Ferrari shop has all the special tools to pull the motor and this makes it easier (for him, not you) . A regular mechanic can't even work on the car. Even the computer scan tools are unique. There's a special frame you roll under the car and attach the motor and subframe to that. A fan belt is $100 and there are perhaps 6 or 7 of those (special size, cogged, etc.)

Mr_Shiftright

Horrible cars, those old Escorts....just horrible.

bumpy

180mph for 12 hours... that's $3000 bucks (you have to stop a few times for gas and potty breaks).

andre1969

Well, if you want to get technical, the upper corners of the windows did stick up, just a tiny bit...maybe 1/4 inch or so. Still, for all intents and purposes, it was all the way. And being a hardtop, with no B-pillar, impressed this chick as well. I dated one of her best friends, who wasn't exactly an automotive genius, either. This was about a year before, when I still had my 1980 Malibu. I remember at a traffic light a car pulled up next to us and she said "Oh, there's a car just like yours!" I turned and looked...it was a 1975 or so Delta 88.

andre1969

is a Ferrari to ride in? I can't imagine that something that low-slung is going to have much interior room, ride very comfortably, or be very quiet with that engine right behind you.

I don't doubt that they're fun...in small doses. I mean, roller coasters and go-karts are, too. But after riding a go-kart for about a half-hour, you're pretty beat-up, and the last time I went to Kings Dominion, those roller coasters had me pretty bruised and battered by the end of the day, too!

To me, a Ferrari sounds like a car that would be better suited to rent and take out on a closed course and have some fun with. And then give it back when you're done with it, so you don't get stuck with all the costs. Or, if you were so filthy rich that a buck fifty per mile was chicken-droppings.

martian

A French car with tailfins? And a 4-speed on the tree? Are thse heaps worth anything? I did LIKE the 504 model-it was a well-designed car, with good seats. Heck, Peugeot used to call itself the "French Mercedes"-except parts used to fall off them!

british_rover

I belive, correct me if I am wrong, that if a mechanic works on a ferrari that is not ferrari certfied it voids the warranty on the car any way.

I have ridden in a 575M that one of my customers has. Our sales manager drove it but I just rode along with the customer for a couple of miles. This is the guy that wouldn't take deliver of the car till we all road in his new Ferrari.

I have to say it was an real experience. His car had the F1 style manual shifters as well.