Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lemko

Anybody interested in a 1988 Chrysler Park Avenue?

fintail

Not many of these shamelessly huge whales around anymore, esp in 2 door form

lemko

There's a yellow 1970 Lincoln sedan rotting away on a repair shop lot I pass on my way to work each day. It's next to an equally decrepit yellow and white 1958 Chevrolet Bel Air

lilengineerboy

If it hadn't been for the Olds Delta 88 Diesel in the late 70s, I think this country wouldn't feel the way it does about a renewable energy source that would reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Wow, that sounds like a commercial.
In high school, my friends had VW, Peugeot, and MBZ diesels. The turbo diesels were great, as soon as the waste gate opened you could leave a smokescreen behind you...or just smoke out the kids at the bus stop who made fun of your diesel.
I did a lot of miles in the Peugeot 505s Turbo Diesel, thats actually the car that was used when I was taught to drive stick. If I could find a cheap MBZ 190D w/ a 4spd or 5spd, I would consider that for daily transport (running bio-diesel, of course).

Mr_Shiftright

Diesel fuel is .40 to .50 MORE per gallon that regular gas where I live, so there is no justification for putting up with a slow smelly 190D where I live at least.

Once the new generation diesels are allowed into California, and once we have a supply of the new low-sulphur diesel fuel, I think diesels might be a great alternative in California. But for now, they don't make much sense. Personally I don't have the time to haul peanut oil out of Chinese restaurants, filter and treat it and heat it and run it through a primitive diesel car that's 30 years old (gee I made it sound ever worse than it is, didn't I? sorry).

Bio-diesel is great but $$$ if you buy it at the pump.

Ethanol and other grain fuels really don't give the energy back that it costs to produce them. That's why ethanol is a federally subsidized industry. It can't compete in a free market.

lilengineerboy

So I did some googling. EPAs website lists the fuel mileage for a 80s 190D @ 29/37 and an 80s 190E (gas) at 21/28. The annual fuel cost for the Diesel is $1160, and gas $1532. Gas was assumed to be 2.25/gal (about what it is in Ann Arbor as of last night) and Diesel was 2.47 (again, seemed in line with what I found on Gas Buddy.com)
Bio-diesel is about the same price here, but considerably harder to find, although even "standard" diesel around here is ~10% bio-diesel.
If you don't want something slow, noisy and smelly, and live outside CA, there are new VW TDIs.
The nice thing about M85 is it requires very few modifications to a gas motor to work. I think as peak oil approaches, and getting oil out of the ground becomes more expensive, it may be a more realistic option. Hopefully not in my lifetime. I'm going to be really ticked if I restore something and then have to crush and refine my own dinosaurs to get gas for it to run. :mad:

lemmer

He just dropped the price from $13,900.

Mr_Shiftright

Seems like fair price for the car.

stickguy

looks nice. A little high on miles, but based on the ad, the expensive stuff has ben taken care of. Could do a lot worse for 11K.

Good thing I'm not close to 'Bama!

fintail

Decent looking Mercedes brick

martian

Back in the late 80's, a friend had a Volvo sedan with a diesel engine..it was pretty peppy, though I don't think it was turbo charged. Anyway, Volvo doesn't do diesel today..is it because cold weather driving is iffy for diesels?

jrosasmc

This isn't really a project but I thought you'd be interested...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-500-Series-1991-560-SEL_W0QQcmdZVie- wItemQQcategoryZ6332QQitemZ4616718621QQrdZ1

I think the W126 cars, along with its Mercedes brethren and some Porsches, were some of the very few shining stars of very early '90s cars in terms of quality and driving experience.

lilengineerboy

Vovlo's diesel in the 700 series was shared with 2 other companies, maybe Volkswagen and Peugeot or something. It was considered ahead of its time and one of the fastest diesels of the day.
Today, Volvo does do a diesel, just not in the US. The main reason there are no diesels here is emissions concern, the slow/stinky/loud reputation and preference.
Diesel technology is much further along in Europe. The have developed particulate traps and other devices to clean up diesel exhaust (like gasoline cars have catalytic converters), and with innovations like the TDI Volkswagens and direct injection Merchryslers (I think they call it CRD), they aren't so stinky or slow. I think if they could get rid of the diesel noise at start up (they already did at idle), you wouldn't know you were driving a diesel.

xwesx

Cold weather is not iffy for diesels as long as you use the correct fuel. #1 from the pump is not going to cause freezing at any temperatures seen in commonly inhabited areas. If you use #2 or similar biodiesels, then you'd better put an additive in there to keep it from turning to gel! :sick:

fintail

That's a lovely 126, top notch. Shame about the color. I'd like to have another one, some day when I have more garage space. They really are just superb cars.

I could see Andre in this, and it's not GM or Mopar

This is indeed cool, I like it a lot. Certainly worth repairing.

lilengineerboy

That Buick is beautiful. Part of me fanticized about bringing my first born home from the hospital in some classic vehicle like that, but then I get worried about how the seatbelts work with an infant seat, and if the baby is born in the winter, etc.
The Lincoln needs some rims, or at least the wires put back on, and the interior should be red (with the opera top) and people can inquire of the driver where they might find some companionshiip for the evening.

Mr_Shiftright

horrible car...DEATH...run away...volvo diesel, BAD ju-ju. Warning! Warning! Abort! Abort!

Mr_Shiftright

the '74 looks like it has rear suspension issues (typical). Also might be a carburator car....not a good year for Benz all in all.

fintail

Those didn't have a special rear suspension, did they? That's a very lowline car, carb for sure. And the seats are getting saggy. But for the money...

Mr_Shiftright

No but that car is WAY down in the rear. New springs and shocks ain't cheap and the car will just pogo stick over every hard bump and pound your spine if you don't fix it. So it's a very necessary repair and this makes the car a $3,000 car, not a $1,600 one IMO.

imidazol97

Correct me if I'm wrong (as if the guys on Edmunds wouldn't!!!) but did Buicks come with red rims and red door frames and the classic blue paint along with white top. I don't recall that combination. Has the color been changed?

Dad had one of these blue 55's that had been my uncles. Dad bought it on a large. I drove it while I was rebuilding my 67 Mustang motor in 68 when it had a strange, occasional freeze up. The car was a dream. No shift transmission. Powerful. Smooth. Gashog.

fintail

I'd figure that old squareline would get any repairs in an enthusiast's backyard, not in a shop.

And yeah, that Buick is odd with the red interior and blue exterior, that can't be original. The paint doesn't look old. It'd be better in red too!

Mr_Shiftright

I suppose some backyard jockey could replace the shocks and springs but if he tackled the carb he'd be dead meat. Benzes do not tolerate work that is "close" to right. I was figuring $1,000 for parts alone.

fintail

This doesn't look bad

andre1969

could very well be original in its color scheme. Here's a link to a 1955 Buick Brochure. Now it looks like they had a tendency to do the rims in a color that accented the body, but check out the Roadmaster on Page Five. The body is blue, while the interior and rims are red!

Now a red interior seems to work best with a red, white, or black exterior. IMO though, blue does seem workable. So do some cremes and pale yellows, if they're the right color. And grays and silvers, to an extent.

andre1969

is the rear end on that car indeed sagging, or is the front just raised up too high? IMO, it looks like the back is about "normal" height. Up front though, it makes me think of car you see in the junkyard or around repair shops that have no engine in them. Maybe someone replaced the front shocks or springs with components that were too heavy-duty, and that raised it up?

imidazol97

I didn't remember a brilliant color contrast from those days... not to quibble but the blue the red is with is the darker blue. I wonder if it was available with the lighter blue. That's what the car in the pic was.

I do recall the 1957 Olds having bright yellow with black and some other bright color combos. So it's not as radical the Buick may have been a field leader with red on blue!!!

I don't suppose you have 1957 Olds brochure link... hint. grin.

andre1969

I don't know where to go to get a '57 Olds brochure, but I'm sure they're out there. Here's the website I found that '55 Buick brochure though...http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/ They have a lot of great info and resources there. I'm thinking about scanning in my '76 LeMans brochure to send to them. I also have a 1979 Malibu and 1979 Nova brochure. And some R-body brochures, but somebody already beat me to scanning them in!

fintail

Low mile survivor

I wish I had a place to store cars...this is worth the money

fintail

I've seen worse oddballs

Mr_Shiftright

What are those front seats out of?

fintail

The ad says a Cordoba...I bet Andre could identify it by the stitching pattern.

I swear I've seen that car before, too.

fintail

It aint a beautiful design, but looks to be a good vintage beater

" Crimany at this price!!What do you want a brand new car!!? "

Mr_Shiftright

Pontiac: Okay, let me get this straight. No engine, no seats, raced and rusty. I'm thinkin' maybe $50.

bumpy

I didn't even know there was a four-door version of the second-gen Chevelle and clones.

fintail

Prettier than your usual money pit

These flat tops are uncommon in Chevy form

Mr_Shiftright

Actually that's one of the few 4-door Chevys I really like.

andre1969

The ad says a Cordoba...I bet Andre could identify it by the stitching pattern.

Unfortunately I'm not that good! At first when I saw the pics, the seats reminded me a bit of the leather buckets my '88 LeBaron turbo had in them. But they weren't quite as plush. So I had to read the ad to find out what they were from.

Back in 2004 I came close to buying a 1980 Cordoba, but it was the cheap LS model, and it just had white vinyl bucket seats. I think they were a different pattern, too.

Mr_Shiftright

The Dart is what we call in the trade a "[non-permissible content removed] car" or a "bitsa" car. Generally they are roaches (if we are to judge by the quality in the photos) but they can be fun because one knows that they are strictly for utility and not for collecting.

fintail

If you're into this kind of thing (not as a huge investment) this seems like a nice candidate

andre1969

is a "Y-block"? Is that just another way of saying "deep-skirt V-block"?

fintail

I always thought a 'Y block' was something like a 272 or a 292. My dad would know.

stickguy

12K in body/paint work, plus who knows how much spent on other parts, and now it's worth $3,500?

Proving once again, the best project car is one that someone else already spent the big bucks on.

bumpy

Deep skirt it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Y-block_engine

Mr_Shiftright

That's what happens when you put $12K in a car worth $2,500, now and forever. A two-door stripper sedan in an unpopular year is surely not a candidate for investment.

"Y" block is the common term in the hobby. I always thought it was a horrible engine...clanky heavy and problem-ridden. The Chevy 265/283/327 seemed light years ahead at the time.

fintail

In 61 a 352 should have been offered, so you could swap in that, or a 390 or even a 406. Make it a drag-style car, like a 409 Biscayne etc.

metro123

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/car/138408675.html

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/car/134268293.html

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/car/133462850.html

fintail

I just vomited from the bodykit on that Civic. Thanks!

Atrocious. That old Eldo is a good pimpmobile though.

Mr_Shiftright

Can a '78 Caddy really "get up and go". I thought they were total cows back then...maybe I'm thinking of the 500 cid '76 engine...that was a woodstove ....

andre1969

that '78 Eldorado has enough torque that it can still throw you back in your seat the moment you jab the gas pedal. A lot of cars from that era that had low horsepower and restrictive gearing, but still had a lot of torque, could do it. But you'd still end up with an underwhelming 0-60 and quarter mile time. And those big, rumbly engines sounded powerful, even if they weren't, so that might have made the cars feel more powerful than they are.

Just out of curiosity, would a 425 in an Eldorado be much slower than the 500? I think hp was close to the same, around 185-190, but I'm sure torque was way down. I know the 425 wasn't a bad performer for the time in the '77-79 DeVille/Fleetwood, but those were considerably lighter than the pre-downsized Eldorados.