Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

michaellno

Not really a candidate for restoration

Ah, memories

One might think that as a 25th anniversary edition, the asking price would be higher

One for Lemko?

Get a load of that color!

Price seems a bit high, but it's local to where I live....

michaellno

Gotta admit, this is a pretty creative sales job in his description

fintail

This should keep your mechanic happy

gsemike

Give credit where credit is due... that is a good ad. I wouldn't buy a 91 Gran Prix in a million years, but it made me read until the end.

Mr_Shiftright

The ugly Jaguar nobody wants, the dreaded 2+2 Series II coupe.

Yep, you might as well take a pile of $100s and shovel them into a furnace while going ZOOM ZOOM!

Costs the same to restore as an E-Type roadster with 1/4th the value (if that much).

british_rover

But if money was no object I think it would be kind of cool.

Mr_Shiftright

you can't mean the 2+2..you mean the series One coupe perhaps?

british_rover

Yeah I meant the regular E-Type. The 2+2 would be kind of cool though in a different way.

qbrozen

I want a 2+2 .... but we've all figured out by now that I'm a strange one, haven't we?

qbrozen

So that 525 was sold. Figures. It gets reposted several times with no sale ... until I actually want to go check it out.

This peaked my interested for about 20 seconds. I then went back and read the recent discussion to bring myself back in check.

Did you say the 735 was good, shifty? That same dealer has one.

lilengineerboy

The Beetle was parked in front of a house with what looks like an A3 and a Mercedes G-Class in the driveway. The G-class is some big bucks.
The Porsche looks neat. I think some people don't like the targas as much as the coupes, but I think targas are cool. I would make sure its had the updates, and if its cycled through a few owners, make sure it had all its records.
Those 70s T-birds are on a couple of lists as the next thing that is going to be worth something some day. The collector car market is based on what you wanted in HS and couldn't afford, or what you wanted when you were 9 and had a poster of in your room.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, BMW 735s were good cars indeed. Figure only about 17 mpg though...a thirsty six cylinder engine.

Porsche Targa: The targa tops can be a real nuisance...best to leave it off as much as possible.

fintail

One Andre would save, anyway

gsemike

Not worth a grand and probably not worth restoring at all.

fintail

If one money pit is just not good enough

andre1969

the body on that 442 doesn't look TOO bad. It's probably restorable to someone who wanted one bad enough. But like anything else, you're probably better off just finding one that's in decent shape to begin with.

I looked it up in my auto encyclopedia, and they don't even list a 442 for 1973, so by that time I guess it was downgraded to being an option package, versus a separate model. What the difference is between the two though, is a fine line I guess. Anyway, my book lists two 455's available in 1973, a 225 hp version that was standard in the 98 and Delta wagons, and optional on other Deltas, and a 250 hp version standard on the Toronado and optional on the Cutlass.

So I'm sure it still had some kick to it, but still kinda underhwhelming compared to the heyday of the musclear era.

ghulet

I've probably never seen a '73 4-4-2, but those emblems just don't look 'right' to me. Maybe they are, but the font (is that the word I want?) looks like nothing I've seen before. I would have thought it'd have more striping, or something. And yellow with red-orange emblems? Check this out and see if you agree:

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/oldsmobile-442/oldsmobile-442-history.sh- tml

Apparently the 4-4-2 was just a handling and appearance package (with either a 350 or 455), so maybe it is correct, but it looks like a 'home job' to me. In any case, I don't know if it's worth restoring, and the price is so-so (can't you buy the nicest '73 GM anything for $5000?).

ghulet

....mention something about 'money pits' earlier?:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/142727144.html

I've always loved the design of this car, too bad they're such a complicated mess mechanically.

fintail

Good for a beater I suppose

I know it's a horrible franken-car mutt, but it has its own coolness

That Audi looks like a good parts car, if one is into that kind of thing

lilengineerboy

How those Lucas folks screwed up a Legend I don't know, but they didn't fair very well in reliability. I think just the drivetrain was Honda (re Saturn Vue) but the rest of the car was all Sterling, so you still get to deal with wipers that dont work in the rain, headlights that don't work in the dark, etc.
Yes, that Audi needs the 20v n/a motor to make it remotely interesting, even to me, and I'm into that kinda thing lol. However, I bet its diff locks work unlike the UrQs that I am looking at.

fintail

This looks nice

I always thought that Audi 80/90 line was kind of odd. They didn't seem to hold up well either, seems lots of them were ruined by the late 90s.

Mr_Shiftright

Wait'll someone prices out a new headlight and cornering light for that Audi....get the heart pills....

jrosasmc

For kicks I once compared parts prices of a Volvo 240 with an Audi 5000 Quattro and the costs of the Volvo parts come nowhere near the heart-stopping pile-of-junk Audi. (LOL)

fintail

Now this is the money pit

Hard to find another one, but she's got needs

lilengineerboy

I think comparing something that has been the same since 1973 to something that revolutionized world rallying and the All wheel drive sports car concept isn't exactly apples to oranges. Also, if you look at any performance attribute, in any weather condition, the Audi will lay the smack down on the Volvo. If you start looking at faster (turbo) Volvos, the costs are more in line with each other. If you want to look at feature content, look at a 760 turbo.
The Audi also has a lot more gizmos than the Volvo, so there is more to break. Price out the cost of rebuilding the rear suspension on a Vovlo 760, or replacing the climate control unit, or the power steering components and it will be similar to the Audi.
The interiors of both cars fall apart so we will call that a draw.

jrosasmc

I think you made a good point about both the interiors of the 760 and Audi Quattro. I remember that they had plastic dashes that would deteriorate rather quickly, fragile wiring harnesses, iffy upholstery, etc.

Do you remember the old Saab 900s from the '80s? Talk about biodegradable interiors!

Mr_Shiftright

Swedish leathers (wherever they got them from) were trash for the longest time...I'm not sure if they were just buying the lower grade or if the way they cured and dyed them was the problem, but they were pretty fragile.

Also of course old Saabs and Volvos suffer from "financially challenged ownership syndrome"....where you have cars that are expensive to fix being sold cheaply as used car.

fintail

I've seen the awful Corvair before...but the dog-dish Biscayne is a new one to me

I'm sure this has no electrical problems at all. 'Consumer Guide' did a hilarious write up on this when it was new

jrosasmc

I saw that exact same Triumph on Ebay one time. Must've been hard to unload.

bumpy

GM must have built 6 billion of these

$1500 for the badge

"needs some work" = Run away! Run away!

crude, but you can make your own fuel

truth in advertising

commands respect on the highway

not quite an Andremobile

this seems to be the fate of all Buicks after the old ladies who bought them pass on

ghulet

Lemme see:

The Volvo screams 'bought by rich parents for spoiled high school brat who's now graduated college'. Sorry, does that sound bitter? Not that it's worth much in 'running' condition, but leaving it to rot over likely a battery is just dumb.

I think that 'Chevy' truck is actually a GMC, based on the quad headlights. My grandpa had a '71 Chevy pickup, 350 four-barrel, TH (I believe), long bed (called 'Longhorn'), with metal bed floor (as opposed to the wood floor on my parents lower-line '72 Chevy pickup), lasted forever (well, the drivetrain, anyway) and it was SERIOUSLY fast. Tons of torque. Looked like the second coming of the truck on 'Sanford and Son' by the end of its life, though.

That Tempest wagon is very cool (natch, made in my birth year), if for no other reason but that I can't remember the last time I saw one. I like the period green, too. I can't compare production numbers off-hand, but it seems like full-size GM wagons of that era have survived (if overpriced) a wee bit, but the intermediates are scarce, if not necessarily valuable.

fintail

LOL I wouldn't expect anyone to chase that Triumph. It just has an aura of endless little glitches.

And all of those old Chevy trucks were orange and white. When I was in high school a less than beloved old teacher had one of those, it was really minty. Orange and white, of course.

Biscayne has its own ad now...could be a good beater

Another good beater/driver for the price of a service on many cars

ghulet

Both the Biscayne and Falcon strike me as bargains, maybe just for the drivetrains (both cheapo four-door sedans with V8s, a bit unusual). They probably don't make the best 'parts cars' for collectible hardtops or convertibles, since most exterior body parts aren't compatible, but both at least look solid.

FWIW, grandpas '71 Chevy truck wasn't the 'traditional' (for the era) two-tone orange and white on the body, but it was a kind of copper (body) with white top. Didn't think much of it then, wish I had it now, though.

bumpy

Yeah, it's probably a GMC, but those old trucks get parts mixed-n-matched so much that it's a hazardous judgement at this date. They ran TH-400s back then. The 'Longhorn' option was a 9-foot wideside bed (a regular 8-foot bed with an extension spliced on the front at the factory and fairly rare).

stickguy

That Biscayne is what everyone keeps asking the domestics to build: A family size, 4 door, V8 RWD sedan, with a stick shift for the purists. Just think of it as the 1965 version of the Charger, but better since it has a clutch!

Also, pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a protecto-o-plate? I know about the build sheet, etc.

stickguy

doesn't actually look as bad in the pics as she makes it sound. Bring jumper cables and 5-$100 bills, and if it cranks, wave the cash and take it home. If you are reasonably handy (and brave) might get a decent cheap beater. If not, you get it semi-running, and move it to the next sucker for $750!

lilengineerboy

Hence the disintegrating Vovlo interior comment...
It's probably good she moved to NYC where she won't need a car since evidently, she can't take care of one. She did say 2 hundred and something odd thousand miles though. One of my students was complaining she had been given her father's old (8 years) LS400 to take to college so he could get a new one. I offered to trade her the 15 year old non-air conditioned base model Civic I had at the time. Surprisingly, she refused.
That Pontiac wagon was kind of cool. The craigslist around here stinks, although there was an '87 924 up there that sounded like it needed ~$200 to get running (either an ignition module or a fuel pump).

lilengineerboy

Here's something that was on Hemmings collectable list:
http://www.tradeexpress.com/details.aspx?adid=10917906

british_rover

Fairly close by to me and looks ok in the pics.

C36

gsemike

I was brought home from the hospital in a 65 biscayne. It looked just like that but was light blue and had a straight 6. I misted up looking at it. It was quite traumatizing for me when we traded it in in 1972 on a Torino wagon.

Mr_Shiftright

uh-oh---the car said the "R" word. 3.0s are notorious rust buckets...best to check that car on a lift, especially all suspension points. I have seen the shock towers punch through the hood on those cars.

fintail

Looks decent. Probably warrants an inspection, and I'd want to know the tranny has been serviced...but looks above average for sure.

Rare-ish color for one too, although not to everyone's liking

fintail

A twin for that nice 69 Pontiac wagon...it's gotta be worth this money, the wheels should be worth something alone

au1994

If you could get away with only sinking a few hundred bucks into it, the Chevy/GMC truck would be a great weekender for those trips to Home Depot. Pretty easy to work on, parts o' plenty and some guts behind it if the motors not shot.

qbrozen

So i drove around ALOT this weekend. Stopped at the one place with the 750 and 735 ... turned out it was a junkyard acting like a car lot. Took one look at the 735 and got the heck out of there.

Stopped at a bunch of places on the way home. Stopped in one small lot and spotted a '92 525 with a price of $3500.

Went to talk to the owner. His words were "that's a great car! just had the engine overhauled and the tranny rebuilt. It runs great!" When I probed into these comments, turns out overhauling the engine amounted to a valve job. oh, and the kicker I did not know until I spoke to him ... it had 203K miles!! Well, after he practically begged me to let him start it up to show me how nice, I obliged. Let me ask you all ... does a start-stall and then a 2nd start that results in a big cloud of smoke enveloping the car and a final idling tune equivalent to a diesel constitute "runs great!"???

Needless to say, that car was not even a consideration at any price.

Now he did have something else on the lot that drew my attention. A '94 Mark VIII with only 80k miles. The inside wasn't terribly well taken care of, and the body was just so-so, but the engine and undercarriage looked half their age. Asking price on this is also $3500. It needed a little love here and there, but that 4.6 is bulletproof, IMO, and the low miles probably means I'd get ALOT of good use out of it. Then my wife looked at it and gave it the thumbs down.

british_rover

Untill I bought my MINI about a year and a half ago all of the cars I had ever bought had been gray just by chance. Now all the cars I have bought since the MINI have been red and that is by choice. Red is my favorite color.

fintail

This would be one of my last choices for a "commuter car", as that idea usually involves reliability

I like blue and silver cars.

andre1969

but only on certain cars. I think it looks good on small, sporty cars, on old cars, and on cars where there's some kind of accent, like enough chrome or a two-tone color, or convertible top to contrast it. And in most cases, anything with a lot of chrome or two-toning is going to be old, anyway!

Another problem with red is that nowadays, the "true" red seems to be a rarity. More often than not it's more of an economy-car, orangish-red. At least that C36 appears to be a "real" red, but I'm just used to seeing Benzes in more "upscale" colors, like blues, silvers, blacks, etc. I think red also contrasts better with a true black interior. With dark grays and charcoals, it just looks a bit clashy.

I currently have three red cars. Two of them, my DeSoto and my pickup, are actually two-toned, with a white roof, white lower accent, and enough chrome (well, okay, plastic and aluminum in the truck) to balance it out. The other one, my '76 LeMans, was originally a metallic red called "Firethorne", IIRC, but it's been repainted a burgundy.

british_rover

My MINI is red with a black roof, black mirror caps black interior with anthracite accents and soon to be black wheels too.

My jeep is red with gray trim and gray interior.

So yeah I agree red with black looks sharp on smaller cars. On larger vehicles Red with tan looks better on the inside. The Range Rover Sport with the red interior looks much better then the one with the black.

fintail

Maybe that's why I like the colors I do, they work better on the cars I like. A red S-class? No way. Although a red fintail is kinda cool.

That C36 is also a real red, non-metallic, so you'd need to keep it waxed.