Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

I always try to advise people that if they are selling ANY old car, and they have someone who is putting REAL money on the table, and that pile of money agrees with current price guides, that they'd better think twice before turning it down....because you might not see another buyer for a long, long time.

The only explanation I can offer is that the seller is a consignor and is restrained from selling by the real owner.

Private sellers are allowed to be delusional, but professional dealers should know better or be prepared to go out of business.

fintail

You need to look for maintenance and servicing. Especially the transmission. These cars have a supposed 'lifetime' transmission that the dealers will claim never needs servicing. It's bogus. The most common, and really the only major failure area on these cars are the transmissions. Make sure it has been serviced by 60K or so.

I would also look for cars with stable ownership, preferrably one owner cars. Some of the ones that are abused change hands a bit. They are kind of like little 4 door race cars (with a slushbox), and some people have been known to ride them hard.

I like this previous style (W202) much more than the current one, in AMG form. It has aged pretty well, although it looks very plain in lower line cars.

That pretty fintail would be worth 10K in Europe...

Mr_Shiftright

well it was worth 10K here in America, too, or at least this car on this day, it was. Maybe a European bid on it, since they are using Euros, which gives them about 25% discount off the US dollar. That would pay his shipping.

british_rover

Ok I had forgoten about the silly mercedes transmission that does not "need" servicing.

What about the previous generation C36 I know those are much rarer then the C43 but I figure the straight six in those cars would be a little easier for me to service myself.

jrosasmc

What do you make of this example of a clean '77 Porsche:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-911-S-1977-Porsche-911-S-with-ONLY-25236-- MILES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10156QQitemZ4619767962QQrdZ1

Looks good but I'd be wary of the year.

Mr_Shiftright

I'd be wary, too. As a '77 it has the "engine of death" and since the miles are low, probably none of the necessary upgrades have been done. Probably a whole pile of trouble just waiting to happen. Poor suckers who bid don't know their Porsches.

fintail

A C43 and C36 are different experiences, or so I have heard. The C43 is a bit more laid back and not so furious. The powerful V8/small car combo doesn't need to be pushed hard to move, where the C36 needs a little more involvement. I think it is a bit harder to find a really nice C36, as they seem to have attracted more tuners/racers. But yeah, I suspect the maintenance is easier. I think the C36 has at least marginally less gadgetry too.

british_rover

There are several on cars.com now. None really that close to me and that is not a car I would want to buy without a through inspection by myself and an expert.

I do have some experience working on the non-AMG version of the C36 motor so I could probably do ok on it. I just know the access on the C43 would be worse. Hmhh decsions decsions.

Ughh if my wife finds out I am seriously thinking about this she is gonna kill me.

fintail

It won't be easy to find a good one, and yeah, if you don't have complete records and at least some knowledge of MB, you will surely want to have it inspected.

I look at these on ebay now and then, and the good looking examples are a minority.

lilengineerboy

I think if someone put a weapon to some part of my person and told me I had to get a Mercedes, I would lean towards the 90s 500E/E500. It was the 300E of the 86-95 style with the S500 V8. It was cool, it had serious factory fender flares and it had the vented fenders similar to the 300D Turbo. I believe Porsche helped out on some of the engineering.
I saw one running around in a snow storm over the winter, all full of salt and snow. It made me sad.

fintail

A 500E is VERY cool. They were actually assembled by Porsche in Zuffenhausen too, IIRC.

There was a 1993 example at a specialty lot here a few months back. It had something like 10K miles on it, and it was as new. They wanted $40K for it though! Getting really tough to find a good example, most have been relegated to normal old used cars.

fintail

I wonder what's the story behind this

xwesx

Not much to go on by the description there, but it looks to be a 1-ton 4wd. Very interesting to note that it has bucket seats! I wonder if that is factory? I did not realize they came in buckets back then. Sheesh. I wonder if that person really wants to even sell it. At $2500, there could be a whole heck of a lot wrong with it and yet the seller makes no attempt to explain the good, bad, or ugly.

Were I at least 2000 miles closer, I'd at least have a look at it. But then, I am a sucker for the 67-72 (preference toward 67-69).

xwesx

1955 Ford

72 Chevy that I am not sure is worth this much, though it is a 4x4...

xwesx

A real head turner.... :surprise:

fintail

I was wondering about the engine in that 67 GMC. Looks weird. The interior is odd too, it can't be stock.

Does that 55 Ford have Chevy wheels? Blasphemy!

fintail

This looks decent enough for the money...IIRC the last carb'd MB sold in NA, too

Mr_Shiftright

Nasty things those old GMC diesel trucks....seats look like they are out of a Corvair.

gsemike

I'm pretty good with keeping track of domstic cars that were made in my lifetime and had absolutely no idea that the was an all wheel drive tempo? With tempos being such basically bargain bin cars, that is really ahead of it's time.

Does anyone have more info on them?

Mr_Shiftright

As I recall they weren't really AWD, but rather manually engaged 4WD, like those clunky old Subarus, Eagles, etc. This level of primitiveness, coupled to a whopping 100 hp engine, probably did not make for anything pleasant or ahead of its time either. I think you could only get these 4WD cars in 4-doors.

british_rover

There was a brief time in the Mid to late 80's where just about everything was made in AWD. There was even an AWD Pontiac 6000. I have seen one in my entire lifetime and that was in the parking lot of a junk yard. Not actually in the junk yard though just out in the customer parking area.

Mr_Shiftright

Well those technically aren't AWD, which would be a full-time system, right?

british_rover

I think the system in the 6000 was AWD. There was not any lever or anything like in the old eagles and subarus.

bumpy

There's lots of weird stuff in that GMC. The hood, grille, and side markers aren't '67, the steering wheel is at the wrong angle, that second shifter isn't the usual 4wd lever, and the Toro-Flow diesel is most definitely not stock (though the bucket seats and console could be).

The Toro-Flow was converted from the GMC gas V6 and was an ornery beast that liked to eat head gaskets. The gas V6 was massively overbuilt, so the diesel version wasn't overstressed (except for those gaskets). The biggest problem is finding parts, since the Toro-Flow was rare when it was new. A marine supply house that's been in business forever is probably your best hope.

lilengineerboy

I believe the Tempo had a provision to lock the diffs (ie 80s Quattros) but it was on a strict you break it you bought it case. The car really needed to be on a slippery surface to use the diff lock or it would self destruct. The Audi recommendation was to lock 1 diff for slippery conditions and lock the other as a remedy once stuck.
I miss the pre-CRV Honda Civic WagoVans with "Real-Time" all wheel drive and the creeper 1st gear. While totally gutless (although the example I am familiar with was high mileage) it always got us to the slopes.

Mr_Shiftright

I think there was definitely a lever on the Subarus...the Eagle,too...maybe it was like the old Toyota Tercels, etc, etc...I don't think any of these were real AWD cars. You had to "do something" to get them into 4WD, either a lever or button or something. They weren't full time AWD. The old Subarus were very crude nasty cars and the Eagle I remember was dog slow and a real gas hog.

The Pontiac 6000 was a true AWD but only offered as an automatic. I wonder if they used Audi technology?...probably, since they made very few of these cars.

british_rover

Not sure I never actually worked on one and have only ever seen the one in person. If I ever got one up on a lift I could probably identify the revelant bits of borrowed technology.

Mr_Shiftright

well the electronic locking diffs really suggests Audi tech.

xwesx

While crude, the old Subarus of the '80s certainly were not "nasty" cars. My father owned one from 1980-1987 when it was destroyed in a head-on collision. To me, something like that MB 750iL is a nasty car. :P The Subaru did not spend even a day in the shop during its operational life!

xwesx

That's interesting to note about the 2nd shifter.... I cannot see the front axle well enough to determine if there are locking hubs on the wheels, but it sits low enough to the ground to make me think it is a 2wd. I wonder if that is perhaps a PTO lever rather than a 4wd lever. After all, a diesel/1-ton is definitely a work truck and back in the days of real work trucks, they often came with PTOs! I just have never seen a PTO-equipped vehicle without 4wd. :confuse:

fintail

These old yachts just have no value

gsemike

PTO???

andre1969

with those downsized land yachts is that while as new cars they were much better than the mastodons they replaced, but as antique cars people just prefer the overblown flambuoyance of the bigger, pre-downsized cars?

The '77-79 Caddies were actually wildly popular when new, but in '77-79 you could still get a mammoth Mark V or Continental sedan/Town Coo-pay, and in '77-78 you could get a Toronado, ElDorado, Newport/New Yorker, or LTD/Grand Marquis in the plus sizes. Now I know that the market isn't exactly clamoring for late 70's cars anyway, but it seems that for those that want them, they usually want the biggest, pimpiest, most flambuoyant of them all!

I wouldn't mind having that '78 Caddy though. Heck, last fall I was considering a '78 Electra in close to that same color!

lemko

Where were these cars in November? I would've purchased that '78 Caddy in a New York second! Those aftermarket wire wheelcover would have to go in favor of stock wires or wheel discs. It also needs a hood ornament - non-wreath to be correct.

Mr_Shiftright

I meant nasty to drive...crude an noisy like an old truck...a nasty driving experience is what I meant. Some found the primitiveness rather charming. I'm okay with that. They did, however, like to drop valves and chuck up their oil pumps. Not a car I'd recommend to anyone....nor a 750iL, which is not nasty to drive but can be nasty to own.

xwesx

Oh.... haha.... right. I never minded it, but then I had little with which to compare it: A '71 Ford Econoline and a '79 F150.

Admittedly, when he replaced the GL with an '85 Toyota Camry, I thought the ride was rather luxurious. So, maybe that in itself speaks volumes! :P

As far as driving experience, I am rather easy going. I like all my driving experiences, whether it is 1200 miles in a '69 Econoline with no brakes, a WRX,a Cadillac, a 40' delivery box, a snazzy 38' class A motorhome.... whatever. I enjoy the drive. Granted, some of those listed might become tedious week after week. I have never had the privilege of driving or even riding in many of the vehicles you folks debate so often here, so my opinions might change relative to my experiences.

xwesx

If you are asking me to define PTO, it stands for "power take-off." It is an auxilliary attachment point for gear-driven attachments. Examples of this include winches, snow augers, farm attachments (for tractors, but I have also seen them pulled by Willys and old Broncos), you name it. It typically is an add-on from the transfer case and is engaged via a lever in the cab.

They were probably most often used for winches, and this function has now been taken over by electric winches.

qbrozen

I figure this is the best crowd to let me know if i'm nuts for actually considering this car:
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/141011864.html

fintail

You're dead if something big goes wrong...but it looks really clean otherwise...

stickguy

looks OK, except for that funny lever between the seats. That, and someone stole the clutch pedal.

Now, if it was a 5 speed, for that $$ figure, I would take a close look at it. But, I am also a glutton for punishment.

gsemike

"runs like a champ motor was rebuilt last year, the car doesn't have any problem starting up...never failed me once"

I guess that he just had the engine rebuilt for fun since the car never broke down. Seriously, it looks pretty good for the money. The engine must have cost at least that much.

As long as you have eyes wide open, I think that you'll get the blessing on my people here.

andre1969

had one of those old Subes, but I can't remember if hers was new enough to be called "Loyale" or one of the older ones before they started giving them "real" names. (like back when they were just GL or whatever).

It was a sedan, nasty, broke down alot, and expensive when it did break. But it was also getting old by that time. Back in high school I worked part time at a veterinary clinic, and I remember the owner bought a brand-new GL coupe. 1987 I think. Now that sucker was kind of a cool little car.

qbrozen

so anything major I should be looking at?

i agree that i'd MUCH rather have a stick ... but if this really is that clean, i think the odds of finding a comparable stick with those miles for that price are slim to none.

I've never had a bimmer or even looked at them, so i'm open to any advice.

i'm definitely planning on asking why the engine was rebuilt. could be it was just knocking or smoking. Who knows? Then again, with only 105k miles, a rebuilt engine doesn't give me much confidence in buying an old bimmer. Should i be concerned? Do these have a poor history? Should I assume its stellar compared to the previously discussed 7-series?

I really think i'm insane for giving up a '98 volvo and buying this .... but at least i'll have money left over for a few repairs.

bumpy

It typically is an add-on from the transfer case and is engaged via a lever in the cab.

The old Muncie 4-speeds had a rectangular plate on the side of the transmission case that you could remove and bolt on a PTO attachment, and you can still get those attachments today:

Mr_Shiftright

It would be interesting to know what he means by "rebuilt" (a much abused term, like "I love you"). Did it fry a head gasket or crack a head...that means bottom end same old thing....

Once you find out what was done to the engine (I bet it wasn't "rebuilt" but rather "overhauled"), find out who did it and talk to them.

Nice looking car, but if you lose the engine that's it---wrecking yard....otherwise, you can just have the car checked for $100 bucks and see what's up underneath.

Check for the usual BMW bugaboos -- do all the ac/heat controls work, all power accessories work...are shocks leaking? Any vibration in the driveline when you accelerate (they like to lose u-joints and you can't replace them---you buy a whole new driveshaft and that hurts). Also brake rotors are not turnable, so watch for that.

I like the 5 series a lot but if it's had a heart operation I want to know if it was a good surgeon or a Home Depot job.

fintail

I don't know if this is good or not

I like it more than this though

Mr_Shiftright

'65 Vette coupe seems overpriced for NOM engine (it's a crate motor from suffix) and bad paint...should be about $22,500 to $25,000 tops, so a full 35% overpriced IMO.

fintail

Cute little gnat of a car

Mr_Shiftright

fun car, price is right.

british_rover

Not sure about the chevelle if that work was not done well, and it probably was not, then that thing is a basket case.

If it was done well it would be a great cruiser cleaned up as long as you can afford the Gallons per mile.