Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Good? Bad?

bumpy

Different strokes for different folks... I saw a white Accord from that generation with a gold door on my way home today.

jrosasmc

A '91 Alfa Spider for $9,500 or best offer. It doesn't sound too promising to me. I most certainly wouldn't pay over $5,500 for any Spider made from 1989 to '93, even if it had low miles.

lilengineerboy

One owner, all paperwork, all updates, full history, silly targa and and wing (I like them both), it looks very nice. Only in Seattle would beautiful Porsches be on Craigslist. It will probably be more rewarding than an old Audi
Excellence Magazine (its about Porsches specifically) does a market watch in every issue for a different model, and they have a section in the end where people write in with the deal they got and the "experts" evaluate it. I don't know how seriously I would actually take it but its a fun read.

lilengineerboy

http://detroit.craigslist.org/car/144386928.html
I especially like the peeling graphics and the rust down the side. Notice the damage to the rocker panel. I think he added a 1 in front of the price by accident or something.

andre1969

Am I looking at the ad you had intended? The one attached to your link is for a 1975 Buick LeSabre. Now, just calling it "lovely" is a stretch of the imagination, but this one shows a winning bid of $4550. ?

Yep, that was it...a '75 LeSabre 4-door hardtop. Maybe "lovely beast" IS a bit much. How about "handsome brute"? :shades:

And I don't believe for a second that someone was actually willing to pay $4550 for it! Now I could see if it was well-optioned (power everything) and looked brand-new (it looks solid (and like it has plenty of life left in it, but it's hardly a creampuff!) I think something's crooked.

qbrozen

hehe.
My favorite part is, "The car is in great condition."
Did he forget to add ";)" after that?

fintail

I bet this is a beast to drive

stickguy

OK, I want that car. bad. Even if it is a Targa, since I actually like them. At least with me, it would probably never see rain.

andre1969

The no power brakes part would probably be no big deal. I had a 1967 Newport that had nonpower brakes, and had no trouble stopping it. In fact, a little old lady owned it before me, and had owned it for something like 28 years, so evidently SHE had no trouble stopping it!

However, the manual steering might be a chore. I've only driven small, lightweight cars with manual steering, so I have no idea how a big, heavy brute would be. I've driven my '68 Dart with the power steering disabled, but that's actually worse than a car with nonpower steering would be!

That '63 Catalina does look like a cool car. Isn't that actually kinda cheap for a Tri-Power car though? Presuming it's original?

stickguy

I have owned "compacts" w/o PS, and it isn't a big deal. But, not sure how much of a difference it makes going from a Duster or Camaro 6 cyl into a V8 Catalina.

basically, the steering is light, you just have about 20 turns lock to lock.

Worst non-PS car I can remember driving? A VW 412. Arnold would have trouble steering that baby at low speeds, which made no sense since the engine was in the back!

Mr_Shiftright

Corvair is a piece of junk, forget it. Restoring a Corvair is like restoring old farm equipment. Takes a special person to have that much faith.

The Alfa should be in really nice shape for $9,500, without any "needs". The 90s Alfa Spiders without the rubber ducky whale tail, are worth more than the earlier ones, but still. If you want a beautiful low miles Spider for $9K, I know where there's one: www.specialitysales.com

I've seen the car and it's near flawless (but it is a rubber ducky model).

Also keep in mind that these later Alfa Spiders are dog slow cars. A city bus will mop the floor with you. All the fun is in the top being down and the handsome looks. However, about $3,000 can change all that if your state doesn't have strict smog laws.

british_rover

Well being in CT the emissions laws are pretty strict so not much use in that too bad. I have never been a fan of small convertiables in general but I do like most of the Alfa ones.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you should drive the '91 Alfa and see if you can live with it...the problem is that the 2.0 liter engine with the Bosch fuel injection, while more reliable than earlier Spica injection or carburetor cars, just won't REV...it just runs out of breath...and really an Alfa engine that won't rev is like a....well....never mind.....

british_rover

Yeah I understand a italian motor that does not rev is like a muscle car without any grunt to put it in more PC terms. Maybe I will take a swing by and look at it on sunday.

fintail

My dad's manual-everything 3 on the tree 68 Fairlane wasn't too bad in braking, but the steering was not cool, especially in parking. IIRC his 60 Ford also had manual brakes, and I did a lot of my pre-license driving in that car without issue.

The Pontiac does look cool, nice color combo too, but for this area the ad makes it sound quite rusty. But that kind of car seems like it would attract a do-it-yourselfer, so it might be worthwhile if it is legit.

qbrozen

Ok ... so a Bimmer 740 is a bad idea, right? Well, what about a Range Rover? Isn't that a bimmer V8 engine? Or am I just flat out wrong about that?

Reason I'm asking is because the wifey likes the Range Rovers, and I'm seeing them fairly cheap ($6k for 100k mile examples seems pretty normal), and when I looked up reliability, most reports seem to be pretty favorable.

british_rover

Any Range Rovers you are seeing for 6,000 dollars are Mark II Range Rovers which do not use the 7 series motor. A modified version of the 7 series motor was used in 2003-2005 Range Rovers and it is actually a very good motor. You will never have a drivetrain problem with a new Mark III Range unless it is one of the 2003 MY cars that has the front diff failure problem.

Mark II Ranges use the old Fireball V8 developed by Oldsmobile in the 50's. It is an ok motor but not particulaly great or that reliable really. Oh and if it pukes a motor look at between 7000 and 9000 dollars for a new one.

More likely you will have air suspension problems with those cars and a complete air suspension failure will cost you 3000 and 5000 dollars to fix depending if you want to get new air springs that will fail again in a few years or if you want to retrofit a coil spring suspension.

qbrozen

thanks for that info.

do all mark II ranges use air suspension?

i just spotted a cheapo '87 Range with "leaking rear shocks." What years used the air suspension?

How much of that $3k-$5k is labor?

Would I be better off pointing her towards a Disco?

qbrozen

So what is something like this REALLY worth?

Hornet sedan

andre1969

Oh, I dunno? 50 bucks? Going once, going twice? :P Seriously, I have no idea. I guess if it's really nice and needs nothing, maybe $3000 tops? To someone who REALLY wants it? If that sucker came stock with a 304-2bbl, even if it had an "SST" badge, it wasn't a performance car. Probably about the equivalent of a Nova with a 307 or a Maverick with a 302, and a step below a Demon/Duster 318. Even though the guy says it "only" weighs 2600 lb, I can't imagine it being that light with a V-8 and air conditioning, although it would still be lighter, probably, than a Duster/Demon or Nova.

I'd say if it was one of those SC coupes with the 360 and a 4-speed (I'm guessing they made them that way?) it might be worth something.

qbrozen

I absolutely LOVE the color. now, i'm serious about wanting to know a value on this one:
4-door Fury

andre1969

that is a nice tank. There was once a time that I hated those '69-73 "fuselage" era Mopars, and also a time that I hated orange colors, but my tastes have changed over the years. That sucker's pretty sweet!

I know Shifty would have a much better idea but I'd guess maybe around $5-6K, if it really is that nice in person? I've heard that museum cars can sometimes be troublesome though, simply because they sit around too much.

qbrozen

digging around a bit, it looks like that engine actually puts down decent power. The 383 with dual exhaust was good for 330hp/425tq.

http://www.tocmp.com/brochures/Plymouth/1970/Fury/pages/ply70-20_jpg.htm

andre1969

at my perceptions of what's a big car and what isn't, but I was shocked to see that those Furys were "only" 214" long! Now granted, that WAS before the 5 mph bumpers were added. And by 1972 they'd bulked up a bit to 217".

I think by around 1975 even something like a midsized Fury or Coronet sedan was around 218" long. My '79 New Yorker is something like 221.3" long, but somehow those old fuselage C-bodies just seemed so much more massive.

qbrozen

ah, but, see, i was also thinking its "only 214"

my Lincoln LS, which is not a large car, is 195"

A towncar is 215"

So I can't really classify that Fury as an "old boat" or anything like that, when there are new cars just as big or even bigger.

fintail

I like that fuselage car too. Is that 383 hood stock?

The AMC is kinda cool, but those seem like they'd be unpleasant to drive, somehow.

qbrozen

if you look at the other pages of that brochure i linked, it does show that hood.

qbrozen

i know, i know, but my wife is really bugging me about this ...

740

british_rover

All Mark II's are air suspended unless they had a coil conversioni at some point. I forget which year they went to the air suspension in the Classic Range Rover maybe 1991 I forget.

Go to www.rangerovers.net and you can look up the particulars of the various models in more detail then I can remember.

Discos use the same motor as the Range Rover for the most part. 2003 and 2004 Discos are actually pretty nice with all up the suspension and braknig updates but they are still very old technology.

fintail

So that hood is stock...that fuselage car is cool, if I was a mopar nut I'd want it.

Might be a good beater, but who knows what's wrong with it

Dual tanks are never a good sign

Very pretty W112 coupe...not as cool as a W112 fintail, but it still looks very well kept...this car was top of the line when new and would have been very expensive. Not a horrible price for those into W112/M189 cars, esp as negotiation is certain

Mr_Shiftright

Fury --$3K to $5,500 is all the money in the world for it.

Hornet SST/304 -- a nothing car, not collectible. Just a used old bucket.

The collectible AMC cars are AMX, Javelin AMX, Javelin, Javelin SST, Rebel Machine, Hornet SC/360 and SC/Rambler. Of course, the larger the engine the better, 343, 360, 390, 401. The 304s aren't of much interest.

ghulet

...looks like it went for a relative bargain at the $51xx selling price, providing you have the scratch (or credit) to fix it should something nasty happen. The KBB, as usual ($10925-huh?) is a joke, that's a price more common to the newer-bodied '95-96s. At 76k in 13 years, it might have been babied (certainly looks it) or it might have had very little replaced, in which case a nightmare waiting to happen. I hate buying cars (any) at or near 80k, it's been my experience that they're usually becoming needy (alternators, suspension work, frequently the second set of brakes/tires) at that point. They seem less trouble at 100k, more usually has been replaced, though of course YMMV on that little observation. In any case, on something like this, you'd want records, records, records, so that'd take some mystery out, though probably not enough for my wallet.

qbrozen

yeah, we discussed it ad naseum and i decided our trigger was $4500. That way, if nothing else, we could enjoy it for a little while and then resell it without a problem. At $5100, that buyer had better love it, because he's married to it.

KBB is insane. Trade-in value is all of $4k on a good day.

qbrozen

arrggg... wife is denying me that Fury. Claims because it wouldn't be safe for a baby seat. Man, never thought that could be used as an excuse for not buying a 36-year-old car.

she did say i could give up my Alfa for it .... I'm not sure about that, though.

qbrozen

I'll admit, I like this ... but to turn down $1475 real money on it is just stupid, IMHO.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4624367420&rd=1&ss- pagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

andre1969

in my '68 Dart once. It wasn't fun, but it was doable. The biggest problem was the the seatbelts back there had gotten tucked under the seat, so we had to pull the bottom cushion out. Also, the low-slung hardtop styling of the Dart got in the way, and we ended up tearing the headliner. But I don't think that getting a car seat in something like that Fury should be a big deal.

In fact, you could argue that it would be SAFER than a newer car, because since it doesn't have airbags, it would be safe to let the kids ride up front! :P Also, let her know that the car has crumple zones, so it's very safe. Just don't tell her that the "crumple zone" is that whatever that tank hits, it crumples! :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

Not a very reassuring name for a dealership "Torch Light Volvo". Reminds me of the final scene in Frankenstein.

xwesx

The owner must not like white cars..... :P

fintail

Doesn't look awful as-is

Nice wheels....uurgh

xwesx

Galaxie - No, but those rims sure look aweful in red!

LeMans - *smacks forehead* What was he thinking?! E-gads! Horrid, horrid wheels....

qbrozen

gotta love this:
It is a head turner and gets more attention than i want.

ummmm... if it really bothers you, how about removing those ridiculously large spinning reflectors you got under each fender?

british_rover

So that C36 in NJ sold for about 9,800 and it had about 83,000 miles on it and it was red.

Red C36

The same car but with 103,000 miles on it sold for 10,000 dollars but it was silver.

C36 Silver

Hell every time I look for these they are only in silver or black. The red one has to be more rare I bet it is the only red C36 they sent to the US.

fintail

Both of those cars look pretty legit...if they are as good as they look, they were pretty decent deals, good bang for the buck. I paid a bit more for my C43, but it is a different beast.

Red is very rare...in person I have only seen black and silver C36/C43 - only one each in red, and just in photos. I saw a pic of a white C43 once too.

fintail

Those bare wheels with base caps always say "big engine" to me, although they can be easily faked

stevedebi

"The collectible AMC cars are AMX, Javelin AMX, Javelin, Javelin SST, Rebel Machine, Hornet SC/360 and SC/Rambler. Of course, the larger the engine the better, 343, 360, 390, 401. The 304s aren't of much interest."

Oh, how could you leave out the Gremlin with the V8?

fintail

Not really a "muscle car", and not the best pic, but it could be a good driver/beater

gsemike

With decent wheels, isn't 11.5 a decent deal? The pic didn't really look like it has a 454 though.

fintail

Might be a good old junk hauler

That 68 Pontiac is just a LeMans, not a real GTO

Mr_Shiftright

Well I meant "collectible" as in "car collection", not collectible as in collecting in the back yard :P