Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Finally, spring has sprung, and we got a break in the weather. I couldn't resist taking the car out for a little drive. I didn't see anything else old on the road, which was disappointing - I imagined more people would have taken advantage of a mild dry day. The old cars in the garage where mine sleeps just sit there dormant month after month, sad. A gratuitous pic (no video this time):



The car ran perfectly, no issues, I didn't spot any excess smoke or hear any unusual suspension clunks. Got one compliment, from a guy in an F10 5er at the gas station.

fintail

Hopefully the Coronet steering can be fixed with a simple bushing. The fintail had loose steering when I bought it, a bushing cured it. Too bad about the little issues, hopefully the price was enough to offset them. Looked good in the pics.

stickguy

every old domestic that Edd had in the WD workshop was the same way. Always ended up being tired bushings. Just assume you are going to replace the front end bushings, tie rod ends, etc. The basic stuff. Not like a 67 Dodge is particularly sophisticated. Brakes, well, that is pretty easy to sort out.

qbrozen

I tightened up the steering a bit but its still in pretty bad shape. Brakes do work, I just need to stand on them. Took it out for a couple of miles. She gets off the line good but doesn't wind out quite right. The trans is very inconsistent. Kicks down good, its the upshifting that is sporadic. A tach would be ever so helpful. Oh, and none of the gauges work.

It handles better than expected. Good suspension and roadholding.

Anyway, my 7-yr-old could not wait to lay into it with tools. Since I don't have any parts yet, I let him help me yank out the heater box.



In the car, the fan wasn't working but bench testing proved it is fine. But I guess I'll leave the box out till I get the AC and heater core. 

fintail

The gauges thing would drive me insane. Was that significant fault noted by the seller? This was a dealer, right?

qbrozen

Yup a dealer. Faults were not noted. I emailed him just because I felt the need to point out the rust. I don't expect a response. 

stickguy

well, you knew you were taking a risk not doing a PPI because you were getting a good deal. And now know why the dealer took it.

so most likely, you still both ended up with a fair deal. If all the small stuff was fixed, he would have asked a lot more. And you were planning to DIY stuff anyway, so in the end, you will likely have it dialed in, the way you want it, for less than his if perfect price.

at least it is still fast, sounds good, and can smoke the tires, right? Everything else is just gravy!

omarman

I looked up the Coronet by VIN number but the description I found was slightly different - engine date code, etc. This was a Jacksonville ad.

From the online ad:
Description
1967 Coronet (Real) RT, one year body style, very nice driver quality.Engine is a 6/15/ 65 year, not a matching number and non HP. No power steering and manual drum brakes. Automatic on the column. Runs and drives very nice. Paint shines good and is very presentable with very minor blisters. Interior is nice. Car now has seatbelts, but needs left front drivers signal fixed. All lights and horn work. Speedo is not correct speed(jumps up and down) has the 150 dash cluster. 0ther gauges need to be fixed. Automatic with 727 transmission and 8 3/4 rearend with 323 gears and is sure grip, bumpers have minor pitting. Looks like all inside and outside chrome is there besides front center piece for the grill. Floor pans and floors and framerails and trunk are solid. Any questions call 904 219 6195. Missing fender tag but Vin and title match. Florida title.This is more than likely the cheapest running driving RT out there for sale, love the car just moving on to a hemi car. Bring this car to a car show and guaranteed alot of looks.

I also noticed a nice looking '65 F100 pickup which shows well in pics and they're calling it a "nice driver." Hard to say though what's really "there" without a test drive. They're asking $15k on the truck.

qbrozen

At least his ad was a little more honest, but he is wrong on the engine date. The ID is B 440 8 2. B is for 1966 and 8 2 is Aug 2nd.

sda

qbrozen said:

I tightened up the steering a bit but its still in pretty bad shape. Brakes do work, I just need to stand on them. Took it out for a couple of miles. She gets off the line good but doesn't wind out quite right. The trans is very inconsistent. Kicks down good, its the upshifting that is sporadic. A tach would be ever so helpful. Oh, and none of the gauges work.

It handles better than expected. Good suspension and roadholding.

Anyway, my 7-yr-old could not wait to lay into it with tools. Since I don't have any parts yet, I let him help me yank out the heater box.



In the car, the fan wasn't working but bench testing proved it is fine. But I guess I'll leave the box out till I get the AC and heater core. 

Other than the primary picture I wasn't able to see any pictures on eBay. When you get a chance post some of the exterior, interior, engine, etc. I hope you have fun with it and that your young son is with you as you take care of the issue list. I have very fond memories of me, dad and his best friend working on cars and motor bikes when I was your son's age.

qbrozen

Here are some from the auction and the underside pics he emailed me.

isellhondas

That Coronet probably needs the usual front end parts that commonly wear out on those. Tie rod ends and lower ball joints and idler arms come to mind. Not a huge deal!

texases

Without those fixes it wouldn't be a project car, after all.

I'm jealous, getting a car like that is something I might do in a few years.

qbrozen

Thanks for all the supportive words, folks.

Just ordered the air con kit. Comes with a whole new heater box and condensor so looks like I won't be putting that one we pulled yesterday back in and don't need to order a new heater core.

I was hoping to find a complete power steering conversion kit, but I have not been able to find something so simple. I did find a rebuild kit for my manual column and a quicker ratio manual box, so maybe I'll just go that route. PS would have been nice, though.

Oh, and got insurance today. $300/yr through American Collectors.

ab348

PS conversion isn't easy, it seems. Looks like big $, but it is out there:

http://www.streetmusclemag.com/project-cars/project-track-attack/tech-install-1962-82-mopar-steering-box-upgrade-with-borgeson/

https://www.borgeson.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1748

A forum like www.forbbodiesonly.com probably would offer some advice.

qbrozen

 I read a lot about that Borgeson stuff, but it is pretty much all about upgrading your existing power steering box rather than converting from manual. It seems as though you basically have to replace  everything in the car related to steering with new power equipment. So, yes, quite expensive. And not in kit form but piecing it together. 

stickguy

just freshen up the manual set up. Feel of the road, and a good bicep workout. Spend the thousands of $$ on something more fun.

ab348

stickguy said:

just freshen up the manual set up. Feel of the road, and a good bicep workout. Spend the thousands of $$ on something more fun.

I tend to agree. Even if you found all the parts for an original PS system on one of those, it is Chrysler's infamous no-feel ultra-light power steering. I'd rather spend the $ on either a power booster for the existing brakes or a disc brake conversion.

stickguy

oh heck yeah. I was thinking this thing needs a serious brake upgrade. That is safety, not comfort.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

At least his ad was a little more honest, but he is wrong on the engine date. The ID is B 440 8 2. B is for 1966 and 8 2 is Aug 2nd.

Engines can have date codes that are as much as 3 months earlier than when the car was built. They always made the engines beforehand of course and sometimes they'd get shelved for quite a while.

qbrozen

I have ordered a new carb, dual plane intake, and headers. Speedometer cable, steering box, column refresh kit, and a couple other little things as well. I haven't even started on cosmetic stuff. I think I might be done under the hood with new valve covers and correct air cleaner label. But I won't be sure till I have a working temp gauge and can see if it is cooling efficiently with the stock radiator and fan. About $3k in so far. 

Oh, and some of that cosmetic stuff is ridiculous. Yearone wants $150 for a badge and $100 per door handle! Yikes. Wonder what it would cost to get a door handle refinished.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

At least his ad was a little more honest, but he is wrong on the engine date. The ID is B 440 8 2. B is for 1966 and 8 2 is Aug 2nd.

Engines can have date codes that are as much as 3 months earlier than when the car was built. They always made the engines beforehand of course and sometimes they'd get shelved for quite a while.

So do you think it is safe to call this engine "date correct" to the car?

uplanderguy

Paging Uplander.......

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/6041956348.html

Sorry for the delay. That '55 Stude looks nice to me; great colors IMHO. I'm used to seeing the light and dark blue two-tones on those. I don't know details of those cars; not sure that seat trim would be original to the car. All that said, the pics inside the trunk look solid as could be. Seems a little pricey to me but I'm not basing that on anything other than...well, nothing. I like the cars.

Speaking of delivery, I get my 'new' '66 on Monday the 17th. My friend keeps sending me little notes about original stuff, small stuff, he's finding on the car that corroborate the mileage. I'm loving that.

ab348

qbrozen said:

Oh, and some of that cosmetic stuff is ridiculous. Yearone wants $150 for a badge and $100 per door handle! Yikes. Wonder what it would cost to get a door handle refinished.

I haven't bought anything from Year One in decades. At first I bought everything from them until I realized most of their stuff comes from other suppliers who sold it cheaper, in many cases, much cheaper.

For example, Laysons says they will sell you a pair of repro exterior door handles for $114. I don't know who supplies most of the B-body repro stuff but once you find out who to go to, they will almost always be better value than YO.

uplanderguy

I know we're talking Studebaker Lark versus GM stuff, and we're talking 1993 versus now, but I remember buying NOS door handles for my '63 Lark Daytona Skytop for $8.95 each.

That was during a May sheetmetal and trim sale then, though, LOL.

uplanderguy

ab348, don't know if you remember us talking about it then, but a female college friend of mine has a '68 442, maroon with red interior and black vinyl top, that she drove until 1987 and parked on the ground but under roof, and wanted to fix 'er up. I was out there with my wife last summer and the doors still closed really well, but on four flats I couldn't look under it and wasn't optimistic.

Her cousin, a mechanic, got it out of there and says the underneath is fine--apparently well-undercoated--had to rebuild the engine but it's coming along. I'm happy for her. Hers was built in Oshawa, Ontario, when I looked at the data plate under the hood.

The real irony is that when we were in college in the late '70's, her dorm room was number 442 and she told her Dad she wanted a 442. She meant a fairly-current one with the huge side stripe and "442" graphic. She was disappointed when her Dad bought her the '68. I told her it's sort-of, kinda, like 'Gift of the Magi' as he got her the good one!

ab348

@uplanderguy - I do remember, and that's great news that it is still good. One thing to note if they get into further mechanical repairs is that apparently Oshawa-built Cutlasses and 4-4-2s used the Chevy c-clip rear ends back then as opposed to the Olds rear ends that were in Lansing cars.

uplanderguy

That's interesting, thanks for the info and I will pass that on to her.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

At least his ad was a little more honest, but he is wrong on the engine date. The ID is B 440 8 2. B is for 1966 and 8 2 is Aug 2nd.

Engines can have date codes that are as much as 3 months earlier than when the car was built. They always made the engines beforehand of course and sometimes they'd get shelved for quite a while.

So do you think it is safe to call this engine "date correct" to the car?

We should decode the fender tag. Can you take a clear photo of it?

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

I know we're talking Studebaker Lark versus GM stuff, and we're talking 1993 versus now, but I remember buying NOS door handles for my '63 Lark Daytona Skytop for $8.95 each.

That was during a May sheetmetal and trim sale then, though, LOL.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

At least his ad was a little more honest, but he is wrong on the engine date. The ID is B 440 8 2. B is for 1966 and 8 2 is Aug 2nd.

Engines can have date codes that are as much as 3 months earlier than when the car was built. They always made the engines beforehand of course and sometimes they'd get shelved for quite a while.

So do you think it is safe to call this engine "date correct" to the car?

We should decode the fender tag. Can you take a clear photo of it?

Can't find the fender tag, unfortunately. Would love to know if this is even the original color.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

Oh, and some of that cosmetic stuff is ridiculous. Yearone wants $150 for a badge and $100 per door handle! Yikes. Wonder what it would cost to get a door handle refinished.

I haven't bought anything from Year One in decades. At first I bought everything from them until I realized most of their stuff comes from other suppliers who sold it cheaper, in many cases, much cheaper. For example, Laysons says they will sell you a pair of repro exterior door handles for $114. I don't know who supplies most of the B-body repro stuff but once you find out who to go to, they will almost always be better value than YO.

Thanks for the tip

uplanderguy

Thanks Shifty; that's a '62, taken out at the Proving Ground which last I heard is now owned and operated by Navistar.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

At least his ad was a little more honest, but he is wrong on the engine date. The ID is B 440 8 2. B is for 1966 and 8 2 is Aug 2nd.

Engines can have date codes that are as much as 3 months earlier than when the car was built. They always made the engines beforehand of course and sometimes they'd get shelved for quite a while.

So do you think it is safe to call this engine "date correct" to the car?

We should decode the fender tag. Can you take a clear photo of it?

Can't find the fender tag, unfortunately. Would love to know if this is even the original color.

Is there a VIN tag on the driver's side hinge pillar? Should at least be a "WS" code in there.

The fender tag should be stainless steel somewhere on the inner front fender, driver's side.

ab348

One of the ads (maybe the Jacksonville one?) specified "no fender tag" IIRC.

That doesn't look like an original color to my eyes. The 1967 paint charts are here:

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/paintChipCharts/1967PaintChipCharts-01.shtml

It looks closest to 88-1 but yours looks more purple in the pics I've seen.

It isn't my car, so take this for what it's worth (i.e. nothing) but I would get the front seat backs painted back to the white they should be, and would get some repro chrome armrest bases and white armrest pads eventually. I suspect the original plastichrome trim on various parts of the dash can't easily be redone, but a silver art paint pen carefully applied makes for a reasonable facsimile.

qbrozen

Definitely not purple. It is very very blue. I believe it may be that Bright Blue Metallic. Considering it is EVERYWHERE on the car, I believe it likely is the original color. Although the engine bay and under trunklid, etc, aren't as shiney not metallic as the outside (which itself is not very metallic).

Shifty, fender tag MIA, VIN tag is there and confirms what seller told me which is a real 67 R/T.

qbrozen

Realized last night I forgot about the camshaft. So I ordered that along with the springs and lifters. I had not ordered the steering box yet and put that on hold since, at a little over $3k spend, I want to slow down. Did tack on valve covers though since it just makes sense to do those now. Throwing in a 180 thermostat and considering an aluminum radiator. Electric fan probably makes sense. Wonder if both are necessary or one is better to do than the other. 

ab348

I wouldn't touch the cooling system until/unless you know there's a problem with it. The old "don't fix it if it ain't broken" theory.

texases

Brake system plans?

qbrozen

ab348 said:

I wouldn't touch the cooling system until/unless you know there's a problem with it. The old "don't fix it if it ain't broken" theory.

BUT, I have to drain it anyway and would rather not do that twice. However, I think just an electric fan may be enough, so I probably will wait to see how it is stock. Of course, getting a temp gauge would help.

qbrozen

texases said:

Brake system plans?

None at this very moment, but I have looked to see what I'd be looking at and it is pretty inexpensive. $400 for front disc swap and $300 more to go with PB.

Mr_Shiftright

Wilwood does a good job with brake conversions.

ab348

qbrozen said:

ab348 said:

I wouldn't touch the cooling system until/unless you know there's a problem with it. The old "don't fix it if it ain't broken" theory.

BUT, I have to drain it anyway and would rather not do that twice. However, I think just an electric fan may be enough, so I probably will wait to see how it is stock. Of course, getting a temp gauge would help.

I see from the pics that it has a shroud for the fan so that is good for cooling. Is it a fixed 4-blade fan or a clutched 6 or 7 blade fan? Those move a lot more air assuming the clutch works well, but aren't always a straight bolt on depending upon clearance to the rad.

qbrozen

fixed fan.

Just went and got my historic plates. Its all legal like now.

omarman

texases said:

Brake system plans?

Don't stop! Hold the steering! More cam!

tjc78

qbrozen said:

fixed fan.

Just went and got my historic plates. Its all legal like now.

Do they still start with QQ?

Adding the electric fans will not only help keep the engine cooler, but will also help the AC performance at idle by moving more air through the condenser.

Mr_Shiftright

The fans help cool when the vehicle is operating at slow speeds and the radiator of course cools at freeway speeds.

Soooo, if you're overheating on the freeway, don't buy a fan.

A quick look inside the radiator core should tell you if it needs to be cleaned out or replaced.

texases

Are there many radiator shops any more? I had my Duster's radiator boiled and rodded out, still overheated on the freeway with the add-on a/c in Houston. Had to go with a bigger radiator (brass back then) and a 6-blade fan.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, sure, even in touchy-feely California !

isellhondas

Really? I haven't seen a radiator shop in years! All they want to do not, it seems is replace the entire radiator.

It used to be if you brought in your radiator one of two shops in my little town would charge us around 15.00 for a "rod and repair". They would slap a fresh coat of black paint on it and you were good to go.

Ah, but the {touchy feely" people sure didn't like some of the chemicals they used in those tanks that did such a good job! I'll have to look around, I thought they had gone the way of the tune up shops!