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ivan_99, "Volkswagen Passat - 2006" #180, 18 Feb 2005 2:09 pm
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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M
I was down to a Subaru Outback,Volvo70 and Passat (all wagons) BMW and Audi are way over priced.
I chose the Passat v6 GLX 4motion, extended my warranty to 7yr100k miles and am happy with my choice. I feel safe motoring down the highway at 75 when everyone else is doing 85-95 mph. Just another .02
klh59 :shades:
PS - extending the warranty to 7 yrs?!?! Wow, that's planning ahead!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Here is a great article--very lengthy but worth reading. It also provides some suggestions about the new Passat pricing.
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102351
I look forward to test driving a manual Passat 2.0T Wagon.
In the May edition of Automobile Magazine it was written that the Passat is becoming more Phaeton than GTI. To me that is horrid. Cushy luxury with gizmos is not my idea of fun. My idea of fun is a car as big as a Passat that is as fun to drive as a GTI.
To read all the hype, that sounds like a description of the new BMW 330.
M
That's a bit unrealistic. Mid to Upper 30's for the top of the line Passat with every option is not unreasonable. This car will compete w/ the G35, Acura TL, and Audi A4 Quattro. I think it's right where it needs to be price-wise. If the new Passat's interior and fit and finish are pushed up-market and are Phaeton-like, VW should have a winner.
This is exactly the kind of Wolfsburg logic I cannot understand? Please explain to me why VW needs to compete with a Audi A4 Quattro? :confuse:
Nissan Altimas and Maximas do not compete with Infiniti G35s! Why should they? Altimas/Maximas are very competitive cars in their own market segments without stealing sales from Infiniti.
So why cant VW have a reasonably priced Passat that can compete with cars within its traditional market segment without stealing sales from Audi?
Why cant VW price its cars competitively?Is it because of the following VW excuses such as foreign exchange, strong labor unions, high worker benefits, inefficient factories? If that is the case---VW is following the same route as Fiat.
Competing with A4 is simply idiotic. I must also mention that A4 got too expensive as well (but is is a separate issue), so it will not be easy. But in no way anybody will pay for "peoples' car" similar amount of money. It must be significantly separated. If Japanese FWD fully loaded can come at list price $28K or so, so should VW if they want to get volume sold. Now it looks they will simply leave this place unchallenged. Unless they hope 4 cyl Passat will compete with 6 cyl Camry and Accord and Jetta will compete with 4-cyl Accord and Camry, but this is a simple lunacy. By the way, there will be some people willing to pay extra for AWD, but does it have to come paired with Auto???
Just recent news from VW dealers show that those guys in Wolfsburg have no clue about the market demands. I usually do not have dealers' ability to predict market demand in high esteme delares (they play safe for me), but this time it looks they know better than those guys in Wolfsburg.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The 06 Passat seems like a really nice car, and based on what I see, it will do very well in the high 20's to 35k range.
You mentioned Altima, Accords and Camrys. Passat as far as I can recall has always been premium priced compared to Japanese vehicles. Fair enough if the 06Passat is premium priced !
BUTit all depends on the premium. It appears VW wants to widen that premium quite significantly. Whether they do or not is another question. But based on the Jetta pricing--it appear VW forgot what competitive premium pricing really means!
True, but the price for a base V6 model shouldn't be over 25K imo. What VW doesn't realize is that they aren't a luxury brand and cars like the A4, G35, TL etc. are NOT their true competition.....IF, and only IF they want high-volume sales in the U.S. market. Now if they want to move say 50K Passats a year then yeah a 35-38K price for a tricked out VR6 AWD Passat is ok, but like others have stated, why this competition with Audi. VW has seemed to think all along that people won't cross shop their cars with Audis and that simply isn't true. The Phaeton and A8 I see mentioned all the time as being cross shopped, but VW acts like it never happens. The Passat is a VW family sedan not a luxury car and should be marketed as such. A family sedan with more style and cachet compared to comparable Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, Fords with a slightly higher priced like 2-3K not a near 40 pricetag. A 38-40K the Passat isn't a sports sedan like the G35, A4, TL or 3-Series. The Passat is too big and not sporty enough to compete with those cars. VW can't cry about low volume while pricing the Passat out of the thick of the family sedan market which is 25-30K.
IMO, if VW wants the Passat to be a big seller their should be a 255hp V6 model in between the 2.0t and 280hp VR6 model for about 25-27K and the VR6 should be a sporty/specialty model for 34-37K depending on options.
I can't wait to see what the pricing for the VR6 model will be that will be the deciding factor on whether or not VW can move 100K of these, again imo.
There is an article about VW's U.S. dealers wanting cheaper cars and that the boys back in Germany are saying that because the U.S. arm doesn't make any money because of the Euro situation, so they only send fully loaded cars, in this case the new Jetta.
M
The above statement was made by the head of VW Canada. Seems to be a BIG CONTRADICTION between what VW Germany is doing(sending loaded overpriced VWs nobody is willing to buy) and VW Canada's view that a VW should be about value!
VW Canada reports to VW USA . So the views of VW Canada are not exactly inconsistent with the views of VW USA. Unfortunately the Volks at Germany seem to be clueless how we North Americans think!!
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=40801&pg=2
Of course, they have a funny way of doing it.
I stopped by to look at a new Jetta -- the car is quite handsome. It is priced, IMHO, appropriately for its looks. Yet, I have read every test report and commentary about this new Jetta I can find -- the car seems to be an absolute bone in terms of performance (a bone is worse than a dog, don't you know.)
True what is in the pipeline for the Jetta is encouraging. But what ever happened to "put your best foot forward" or "you only have one chance to make a first impression" (while we're spouting platitudes)?
Audi did the same kind of thing with the new A4 3.2 -- only bringing automatics to the US for the first go round of the new model. Perhaps they all do this -- bring the least impressive to market first and "save the best for later."
On the other hand, BMW has "hit the airwaves and print media" alike with this new "3" campaign. And our local BMW dealership (2 of them in Cincinnati) has one of every flavor of the new BMW available for a "passionate test drive."
The new Jetta in many ways is a step in the right direction -- from at least one perspective (that one being the one that believes there is always room at the top) -- but then they don't have any examples of the truly "betta Jetta's" that will be here in the coming months. Perhaps a test drive in this new 150HP model would convince SOMEONE to not miss the excellent 1.8T or the apparently outstanding 2.0T versions.
I have now spent two weeks driving my wife's 2003 TT coupe (with the 225HP 1.8T engine and 6 speed transmission) -- and I am wondering who's idea it was to not use this wonderfully peppy and powerful engine in a host of Audis and VW's (with no criticism of the 2.0T intended.)
The new Jetta 2.5 if it could have been immediately brought to market with the new 2.0T or perhaps this 225HP 1.8T that I am loving (if we wanted to keep the older technology in the VW and the newer tech in the Audi -- perhaps for one model year) -- instead it is saddled with the caption "under powered and over priced."
Beats me how the original platitude seemed to have been lost in translation.
Hopefully all the new Passats (even the one with the big motor and 4Motion) will be made available from the get go with an advertising campaign to support it.
Remember the Pueblo, Remember the W8.
Far fig newton indeed.
True, "We who like to shift are a dying breed." Fortunately our epitaph has yet to be written. It's becoming old news, but you may not yet have heard that BMW initially decided to import the new M5 and M6 with the "Automatic Wannabe" SMG to North America. The owner base and BMW-USA made such a stink about that fact that BMW is hurriedly fitting a 6-Speed manual to the two V10 "M" cars as we speak. Cool, I only wish I could afford one, looks not withstanding.
Back to the Passat; when I saw the new one I thought to myself, "Hmmm, maybe it's time to defect back to VW, I mean how cool would it be to have that new Passat with a 280 HP VR6 coupled to a sweet shifting 6-Speed manual?" Alas, it ain't to be. :-( Again!
Best Regards,
Shipo
Exactly! Couldn't agree more. I truly believe that the new Jetta wouldn't draw this overpriced rap if there was at least 190hp present combined with a generally more refined engine. There is no reason why 1/2 of the Lamborgini Gallardo's V10 can't make more hp. The car otherwise seems to be a complete little package, but the engine seems to be the sticking point. The 2.0t model should have 225hp and the future "R" model should be a 250hp screamer, but thats just the way I'd do it.
What was the point of 5-cylinder engine if isn't going to outpower most 4-cylinders in the category? I just know there is at least another 30-40hp in that engine easily.
dewey,
That is exactly what VW should be value priced and fun to drive, but VW's take on value means valued priced against other German cars. That would work if there was another "regular" German brand competing for the family sedan market, but there aren't any. All the other German makes in this country are primarily luxury brands with a some cheaper models at the lower end and to me VW shouldn't try to compete with them especially with a Jetta. Doesn't make a bit of sense. Yeah sure a hi-po Passat could be marketed as an alternative to a C-Class or 3-Series, but that Passat model should only be the specialty model, with the "regularly" priced Passat models competing with Hondas/Toyotas etc, you know the meat of the market.
Being "value priced" relative to other German brands still makes VWs too expensive to compete with Honda/Toyota and the like which is where the volume is.
Again, I base all of this on the theory that VW wants to sell like 100K Passats a year and in general would like to return to the sales heyday of 1998-2000. Now if volume isn't what they want (which all their press releases say it is) then they're heading in the right direction by selling less cars at higher prices and putting more emphasis on the car/brand than value.
M
What VW says and what VW does appears to be currently inconsistent!
Marketing the Passat as a Mini-Phaeton at higher prices seems to be VW's real strategy. Although we still dont know what the prices will be, my hunch is that you can expect similar price inflation as the Jetta. This VW strategy reminds me of the following words from Michael Porter's book called Competitive Strategy:
Clinging to "higher quality' as an excuse for not meeting aggressive pricing and marketing moves of competitors. High quality can be a crucial company strength, but quality differentials have a tendecy to erode in mature industries(i.e. Auto industry). It is difficult for companies to accept the fact that they do no possess the highest quality product or that their quality is unneccesarily high.
Or Here
Another great looking wagon in the VW/Audi tradition.
M
Looks great, except I can live without the interior wood-trim.
Note the blogger opinion linked. They think it is dull because it is square. DUH!!!!! If a wagon is not square it would not be a wagon, it would be a hatchback. And we know what the US opinion is on hatchbacks.
My view is the hell with opinions---I seek functionality with performance/handling. There is nothing that kills functionality like a trunk or a silly curvaceous rear-end that kills cargo space(two very popular features among North Americans)
IMO I think a third row seat option. And such an option should be reasonably priced!
Why a third row?
Many people share my needs of sometimes requiring more passenger space but who are unwilling to buy a SUV or a Minivan.
What Minivan/SUV in the price range of a Passat can perform/handle like a wagon with 2.0FSI or 3.2 engines?
Whom among the wagon competiiton provides a third row. Certainly not the Audi Avant or the BMW 325xi? Volvo? Forget Volvo! They priced the third row on their wagons quite ridiculously high in order not to cannibalize their XC90 sales. With VW that is a non-issue since they do not sell any vehicles with a third row!
Based on the interior measurements of the new Passat wagon---a third row option sounds possible--assuming VW management would agree with me! An unlikely scenario indeed!!
I wonder when it'll be released? Previous reports I've seen speculated that the wagon would not release until February 2006 as a mid-year model, so that VW could get the Passats going earlier.
While I'm disappointed by the new Passat styling, the wagon or sedan will be in the top three when I get my next vehicle. But preferrably the wagon.
M
As for pricing, everyone needs to keep in mind that the 2.0 turbo 4 is bumped up to 200 hp; five years ago, that was really sporty for a V6 and it's still competitive with many American cars in this class. As for the V6 pricing, the info I saw was that the V6 was supposed to come in between the old V6 & the W8 but that the content and performance would be much closer to the W8. For this level of performance, you'd have to get a Dodge V8 which is in the same price range without the same level or german refinement. You could get a Subaru for a few thou less but you also drop in content (at least VW is offering the goodies that some of us want).
I say, let's wait until the final product hits the streets before passing judgement. Again, I think this beauty will end up as my next vehicle since I just can't bring myself to buying an SUV.
Also I heard the DSG saves fuel vs. Manual. That is impressive!
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2050610.001/volkswagen/1.html
Hmmm, I didn't get that from my reading. Maybe I missed it (or maybe you have another source) but I got that the DSG was able to maintain the good fuel economy of a manual while allowing automatic like shifting. Yes, no?
Best Regards,
Shipo
I prefer manual myself---BUT if DSG is as good as they say I may test drive one just to confirm if prevailing DSG reviews are correct.
Regarding the Manual, as you well know, I'm with you on that one, so much so, that even if a car got better mileage, had better acceleration, and was smoother shifting, I'd probably still pine for a manual transmission.
Best Regards,
Shipo
you are a rare bird indeed. And it is nice to know that there are a few rare birds like myself out there! Nothing beats a stick with a creamy smooth engine ! Nothing!!!!
So why would I even consider a DSG? It has nothing to do with car preferenences
It has everything to do with marital considerations(my wife who does not drive manual would like to be behind the steering wheel during long road trips==being referree with our kids can be quite a challenge).
Pardon my selfishness for saying this but I am still leaning towards a manual==maybe I should see a marriage counsellor :confuse:
I actually like car mag mpg results better than EPA. I recall reading, years ago, that the 3 series (I think the 220hp version) obtained 30 in a CD road trip. This road test means more to me than sitting on a dyno (even though I understand the concept of a controlled environment for comparison purposes).
I guess we’ll see.
So, what's the real truth? Well, after writing the above, I checked the Audi-USA web site and discovered that the Audi A3 can be had here in the U.S.A. with both the 6-Speed manual and the DSG, and with the same engine no less. It seems that the 6-Speed manual achieves 1 mpg less than the DSG in the city and beats the DSG by that same 1 mpg on the highway. So, it seems that my above speculation was half correct; the DSG is more efficient at shifting, hence better city mileage, however, the manual is still more efficient at transmitting the available power to the wheels in top gear.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Having said that it is quite a significant improvement for the Passat TDI which has no manual option. A DSG should improve gas mileage quite significantly versus the current automatic tranny.
Oh and last but not least the improved PERFORMANCE with DSG versus the current automatic tranny. Although I dont think many buy the TDI Passat with the intention of driving it as a street scorcher!
Are you sure about that? I don't know about those specific engines and transmissions, but for the new jetta the ATX and MTX get the same mileage rating. Of course the ATX has one extra gear.
I think MTX mileage is all about how you drive, which is also true wit ATX. But personally I tend to drive harder in an MTX car...run engine to higher rpm, accelerate faster, etc. with an MTX.