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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
This car really has a unique look to it. The rear lights look better in the latest pictures from ivan99 - thank you once again. I am looking forward to test driving it. The new Jetta has had luke warm reviews to date. I hope the same does not occur to the Passat.
I was just about to ask if anyone had seen the new pics at germancarfans.com. They may have missed in the styling department with the Jetta but this Passat outta here gorgeous. The dark colors really make it look smaller than it is. I like that. If priced right this will be VW's savior in the U.S., not the Jetta I'm afraid.
In further review of the pictures, I think the best part of the design is the side profile and the rear "haunches" they're executed so very well, I find these two pics:
and
to convey what I may or may not being stating correctly. The car's styling shames the Accords, Maximas, Camrys and Avalons of the world.
Shames...Yes...add to the mix Infiniti M, GS300, RL.
I haven’t been too impressed with many exteriors lately, except the A6 (but $'s and power don't compare to the Passat...I know, different league).
...that all of the press material available concerning the US launch of the new Passat continues to completely ignore the availability of the diesel engine. Not one of the VW enthusiast sites seems bothered by this, but it sure makes me wonder...
Yeah but all those cars shame the Passat in sales, perceived quality image in the big picture. Plus the Accord V6 hybrid shames everyone in this class on technology so lets not play it up prematurely. Me no like the front overhang too much in the side view. Looks like all Audis have the same big overhang issue. See BMW 3 series, G35 how its done. If they try their fantasy pricing again like the W8, they will get laughed at all the way to the local Acura, Lexus dealership.
Over hang does look “too big” on side view. I think this is because the front of the car, If seen from a top view, is rounded. A 3 series on the other hand has a more flat front therefore seen from the side it looks like the over hang is much less.
Either way, I guess the front does have a large overhand only that the Passat seems to be more “pointed” where the front nose is, as opposed to being a overall large front overhang like some others (domestics). I agree the side view of the 3 does look impressive.
Accord hybrid 255hp does not match up favorably against 280hp. I’m all for new technology, but it has to provide some tangible benefit and a few mpg and 15 hp does not do it for me.
Nobody has official prices yet, but guesses can be made based on what the market is like out there.
Currently most successful automakers make sure that their new model introductions are not priced much differently than in the past.
Based on that ---24k looks realistic. Unless VW commits an act of self-sabatoge and seeks the path of non-success! Then the sky would be the limit in terms of pricing!
I saw on the vw media room website that the Passat is being launched in Germany on 3/11/05. The price is said to be the same as the previous model. US prices may increase depending on the exchange rate. Strangely though they were offering 4 engines initially which did not include the 3.2L V6 used in the A6. More engines and transmissions will be added in the near future there.
I read in a Canadian site that all V6's would be automatic only. I hope that VW won't turn it's back on those of us who like to shift our own gears. There are so few car makers that offer their biggest engines with manuals anymore.
I drove a 1995 VR6 Passat GTX 5-Speed for four wonderful years, great car. Unfortunately by 1999 it was all used up (nearly 100,000 miles of NYC metro area driving takes its toll on a car) and I was all set to jump into a 1999 Passat GTX 5-Speed when VW pulled the rug out from under me and cancelled the 5-Speed for that model year (and if I remember correctly, only that model year). That was so unacceptable to me that I said, "Bye, bye VW, hello BMW." Now for the first time since, I'm actually considering looking at VW again. I find that the new Passat is very appealing and certainly in my top two or three cars to replace my current (second) BMW. Having said that, if there is no "Stir your own" option (with a real clutch and pedal), I'll be looking elsewhere. That would be a pity as it looks like this new Passat could be a real winner for VW.
Regarding the engines, I haven't driven any of the current crop of VAG engines, however, back in the late 1990s, when I compared the 2.8 VR6 vs. to 2.8 V6 in the likes of the A4, I found that my "Butt Dyno" much preferred the low end torque of the VR6 to the rather lethargic feeling Audi V6. Assuming that comparison still holds true, I think that it is a very good thing that VW is going back to the VR6 for the Passat.
I was all set on buying the new BMW 3 series touring this Sept but found out it will not exist here until late 2006.
That in itself is a blessing in disquise since now I will be able to comparison shop between the new Passat wagon( I am confident it will be out by late 06), the A4 3.2 manual tranny version and the new 3 series touring.
The pre-requisite for my new car will be a manual tranny---HOPE VW is listening!
I'm a 2003 Passat owner wondering where to go next. Looking at choices in the price range being projected for the B6, I think the new Avalon is going to present the biggest challenge to the new Passat, especially given VW's current terrible quality image. With VW's move upmarket and Toyota's attempt to go after a younger demographic with the new Avalon, there will be far more cross-shopping of these two vehicles than in the past. I'm not going to argue that the new Avalon is as good looking as the B6, but it's not bad, and undeniably much improved over the previous generation. It is appreciably larger and more powerful than the B6, and comes with Toyota quality. Passat has more of a "driver's car" image, but the new Avalon is apparently much improved in this area, so there may not be all that much real-world difference between the dynamics of the two vehicles.
Precisely right and based on the new improved engine selections it will remain one. The Toyota Avalon? Fantastic car if you like soft luxury at a value price versus Lexus. Is Avalon a driver's car? Personally I would rather be a Avalon passenger than a driver.
Just confirmed this morning with my VW dealer that the VR6 will only be available in the US and Canada as automatics--he states that from what he hears there are no plans to make a manual available other than in Europe. I spoke to a BMW dealer this afternoon and it looks like this long-time VW customer will be buying a new BMW 3 series with a manual for about the same money I would have spent on the new passat.
As I posted a few days ago, VW pulled that stunt on me in 1999 and "forced" me into a BMW. Now, with this latest revelation about Automatic only VR6 Passats, the new Passat has just rocketed itself off my short list to somewhere in oblivion. It looks like BMW is going to lease me a third car since 1999 when the new E90 330i hits the streets.
Hey, anybody at VWoA listning? When a new E90 lands in my garage that will make something like $125,000 in car sales that would probably have gone to VWoA instead of BMW, if only you hadn't cancelled the manual transmission from the 1999 Passat GTX. Do you folks REALLY want to make that same mistake again?
I'm a 2003 Passat owner wondering where to go next.
I am surprised you are already contemplating changing cars.
With VW's move upmarket and Toyota's attempt to go after a younger demographic with the new Avalon, there will be far more cross-shopping of these two vehicles than in the past.
I don't believe VW's upmarket move includes Toyota or the Avalon. I wouldn't call that upmarket.
I think these cars are worlds apart, both in actual performance, and in demographics. Here are a few excerpts about the Avalon from autoweek:
...If, however, you just want something relaxing in which to haul your golfing buddies to the 19th hole, you have found the perfect car.
It’s the coddling and soothing that probably means the most to buyers in this demographic (average age 66).
The new Avalon is built for ride comfort over handling, and it achieves that well, with so much isolation you float as if in a dream...
Last year Toyota sold just 36,460 Avalons. Buick spills more than that off the back of the transport truck. But remember, those baby boomers who have been ruling demographics for generations now are all growing up into their AARP years, so being ready to coddle them with a nice, comfy Avalon just makes good business sense.
I've said it so many times before -- if money could be made with manual transmissions, VW would offer them (as would oh so many others.)
We shifty types are a statistical anomaly. We may go to BMW or Porsche, or Volvo or whoever du jour offers the manual transmissions. My friend, who sold his VW/Audi dealerships said he lobbied VW and Audi for manual cars -- the A6 was first brought to market with only an auto -- the following year or the year after it was offered with a stick shift. The cars sat on the lots.
I figured it was because they were strippies -- no options. OK, so that may have been a factor, but my dealer owner friend said he brought in some maxed out A6's with sticks and they just sat there.
Even when the 2.7T came out and offered a no charge 6speed manual -- and more sport lux stuff could be had -- the stick versions withered and died on the lots.
Over at one of the two BMW dealers here in River City, it is hard to take a car with a stick shift out for a test drive -- there are fewer than 15% of the ones on the lot so equipped.
Believe me, if 85% of the customers wanted sticks (or even 25% for that matter), the inventory would actually show up.
VW has assessed the market and determined that a stick shift would languish on the lots, losing value, costing "floor plan" dollars and so forth.
I participate all over this forum and whenever I even hint that someone should buy their new S4 or allroad or A4 with a stick shift, I am not surprised to be told to butt out.
I encourage folks to take seriously long test drives of stick shift cars -- far as I can tell, it falls largely on deaf ears (or blind eyes as the case may be since this is a written forum).
I've decided, rather than becoming twisted and bitter and ticked about it, to realize that mass customization. could fix this, but there seems to be little impetus to make this happen.
Finally, there are virtually no American cars with sticks -- you would think if the customer wanted a new CTS with a stick shift that there would be more choices than the 400HP V8 version -- but, nope, if you want a stick, you have to be looking at the low end or the over the top end.
At this moment, at least you can still get an Audi S4 with a stick and the 2.0T version, too. Maybe if enough people bought one of those in lieu of the Passat auto trans, VW would respond appropriately to the market.
"year after it was offered with a stick shift. The cars sat on the lots"
Interesting stats about the lack of enthusiasm for manuals among VW/Audi buyers! BUT if Passat has any plan to compete with BMW 3series Infiniti G35 and the new upcoming manual Lexus IS, they should follow the success of their competitors.
No wonder there are comparisons with the Passat to the Avalon!
I agree with Shipo about BMW, I will wait another 618 days for the BMW 3 series Touring with manual. Once upon a time I was very eager about owning a VR6 manaul Passat wagon, what a shame!!!
Like you, I have participated in these forums (forua?) covering a broad range of topics off and on since 1998, and I too have seen a fair amount of apathy when it comes to stirring your own. Having said that, in both the 3-Series and the 5-Series discussions, the concept of having three pedals under the dash is not only not a foreign concept, it is alive as well.
Regarding how large the market is for manual transmissions, well, I suppose it depends upon where you look. When I leased my first BMW (a 1999 328i), it was because VW failed to offer a stick on the 1999 Passat GLX (after offering it 1998 and offering it again in 2000 (I think)), I happened to ask my salesman (oddly enough, he was the same guy who leased me my 1995 Passat GLX 5-Speed at a dealership 60 miles away), "How many 3-Series cars do you sell with a manual transmission?" His response surprised me, "Oh, a little over 50%." Yikes, a dealership moving over 50% of their 3-Series BMWs when the national average is something around 25%, and this in the NYC metro area no less. They are doing something right. ;-)
Regarding what dealerships order for inventory; were it that I was a dealer selling BMWs or other sport sedans of their ilk, I would probably attempt to only keep a very small number of cars on hand with a manual transmission (for test drives), with all of the rest of my cars for inventory being ordered with an automatic transmission. Maybe I'm totally wrong about this; however, my impression is that most folks that prefer to drive a manual transmission are also the very type that are inclined to order a car as opposed to picking one off the lot. In our case, my wife and I have custom ordered 8 out of our last 8 cars, and 6 of them were built to said orders (the other two were found in the pipeline with EXACTLY the options we ordered).
As far as making money building manual transmission cars, I've opined a number of times on this issue as well (in fact, I think one of those times was in an exchange with you on this very topic). Given that the cost of certifying a car here in the U.S.A. is fairly steep, and given that the population of "throw backs" that still drive stick shifts is shrinking every year, thus costing more per car for the aforementioned certification, I think that the vehicle manufacturers should make the manual gearbox an extra cost option. That would have two positive effects (at least I think it would): 1) It would up the profitability of manual transmission equipped cars, making them more desirable to build and sell, and 2) It would force those who routinely brag, "Yup, I got her with all of the options", to order a manual transmission.
Personally, I'd gladly pay a similar premium to what automatic transmission buyers have paid for years for a manual transmission.
True, but a 280hp Passat will likely cost $35K or more. Even the base Avalon at $26.5K has 280hp. VW overcharges for the V6 in the current Passat, especially given that the 1.8T with automatic is a poor combination (I know, I own one) .... and it looks like they will make the same mistake again.
Say what you like, but I'm a 45 year old Passat owner who is seriously interested in the new Avalon, and I personally know at least 3 other guys about my age who are interested too. We're not old fogies, we're just looking for a speedy, roomy, quiet, reliable car.
I have been generally pleased with my Passat and wish VW all the best, but they seem hell-bent on charging top $$ for their good stuff, and their chronic quality issues are making me nervous.
While offering a manual tranny may not be hugely profitable it certainly does not hurt the bottom line. It also helps with having a price leading model as well as boosting performance and economy specs. It also is good customer relations, although that is becoming rare these days.
I realize that auto makers say economies of scale is what forces certain option packages, but if the consumer is willing to pay a small premium, then why not let that person order the vehicle however they want it - especially if that vehicle is made in another country.
Passat, especially given that the 1.8T with automatic is a poor combination
Tue, but how about the 2.0T with a 6 Speed auto this combo may be “better”.
I haven’t seen any info regarding the base price of a 3.6L.
All I’ve seen is the maxed out 3.6L costing 38K or so. In a stripped version (similarly or better equipped than the Avalon) it may be competitive; within a couple grand or so.
I just priced out a new "Maxed Out" Avalon and it came out to $38,489 and even without all of the extra goodies, a fully equipped (from the factory) Avalon Limited still adds up to $36,630. Hmmm, what's not competitive about that? It sounds pretty close to a $38,000 Passat to me.
Then again, if VW wanted to generate a little more market differentiation, they would allow a manual transmission to be optioned with the rumored 280 HP VR6. Yeah, yeah, I know, "It ain't gonna happen." Oh well, "Hello BMW." ;-)
The Avalon at that price will be FWD, the Passat will be AWD.
The Avalon will probably not be a great handling car -- but it will probably be more than adequate and it will certainly be a fine "road car" if the road is, say, from Cincinnati to Lexington or Columbus (interstate routes that is).
I hate to admit this, but driving a new CTS from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh and back over the weekend (an Enterprise rental) was quite an easy task (not easier than my allroad, but my allroad was $14,000 more than the Caddy as equipped).
Much as I love VW's and Audis, I can at least understand the allure (a bit) of the Avalon.
Having said that, it just seems that 280HP through the front wheels would make the Avalon, should we say "twitchy."
Even money, an AWD auto Passat vs a premo equipped Avalon -- I'd probably take the Passat in a heartbeat, OK, two heartbeats (but I would certainly not overlook the A4 -- but that Passat HP and engine at that price would equate to a 200HP 4 cylinder A4.)
The premium cars -- and this is good for all -- have some serious competition.
You're right, top of the line B6 Passats and Avalons will probably be pretty comparable in features and cost. The rub is, you get virtually all the important mechanical bits --most notably the 280hp engine-- in the "stripper" Avalon. The upmarket models just add more luxury stuff. The one exception is stability control, which Toyota foolishly limited, at least for now, to the top models. I expect this to change soon.
AWD would be a plus for the top-end B6 if you live where this is a factor (I don't). On the other hand, the Avalon is roomier and probably will be more reliable.
Obviously this comparison is premature, since the new Passat isn't even out yet. I don't plan to buy my next car until it is, and the B6 will definitely be on my short list.
"True, but a 280hp Passat will likely cost $35K or more. Even the base Avalon at $26.5K has 280hp. VW overcharges for the V6 in the current Passat, especially given that the 1.8T with automatic is a poor combination (I know, I own one) .... and it looks like they will make the same mistake again."
I agree. They should use the 280hp engine in a sporty R36 variant an offer the regular 3.2L V6 as the mid-level trim at 250hp for about 24-27K, in line with similarly powered cars. Either that or give the customer the option of having less options that they don't need in order to get the 280hp V6 for under 30K. Sometimes I don't understand VW, they want sales but then price themselves out of contention.
A 35K, 280hp Passat is going to be a really neat car, but at 35K it won't sell enough units for VWoA to turn around their problems.
Interestingly enough a loaded Maxima can top 35K too, but you get the 265hp V6 standard no matter what you choose in options.
Hello, just browsing the Passat site to see what's up and say goodbye. I shudder when I see Avalons being discussed here. My 2001.5 GLX 5sp is off lease now and I can't wait for the fall so a new 2005.5 Audi A4 2.0 Quattro will be in my garage Thursday night. My wife and I got so delerious on Saturday that we traded in our Subie LL Bean and she picked up a 2005 Allroad 2.7 today. To chip in on a previous thread, BOTH are manuals.
I would consider the Infinti G-35 before the Avalon. Considering the problems I've had with my 2002 Passat, I'm seriously considering going back to Infiniti. The Passat has been my favorite car for the reasons we all know (handling, throttle response, ride, gas mileage), reliability excluded. I fear going over the warrantee in my 02' because of the repair costs. The 06' Passat is a beautiful car, but I'm reluctant to buy any vehicle in it's first year, even the reliable Japanese brands.
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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
M
to convey what I may or may not being stating correctly. The car's styling shames the Accords, Maximas, Camrys and Avalons of the world.
M
I haven’t been too impressed with many exteriors lately, except the A6 (but $'s and power don't compare to the Passat...I know, different league).
Either way, I guess the front does have a large overhand only that the Passat seems to be more “pointed” where the front nose is, as opposed to being a overall large front overhang like some others (domestics). I agree the side view of the 3 does look impressive.
Accord hybrid 255hp does not match up favorably against 280hp. I’m all for new technology, but it has to provide some tangible benefit and a few mpg and 15 hp does not do it for me.
It's gorgeous.
Currently most successful automakers make sure that their new model introductions are not priced much differently than in the past.
Based on that ---24k looks realistic. Unless VW commits an act of self-sabatoge and seeks the path of non-success! Then the sky would be the limit in terms of pricing!
or wagon...side view
Best Regards,
Shipo
Not sure what Audi is going to do...being upstaged by VW's 3.6L
The US will get an exclusive 3.6L
I drove a 1995 VR6 Passat GTX 5-Speed for four wonderful years, great car. Unfortunately by 1999 it was all used up (nearly 100,000 miles of NYC metro area driving takes its toll on a car) and I was all set to jump into a 1999 Passat GTX 5-Speed when VW pulled the rug out from under me and cancelled the 5-Speed for that model year (and if I remember correctly, only that model year). That was so unacceptable to me that I said, "Bye, bye VW, hello BMW." Now for the first time since, I'm actually considering looking at VW again. I find that the new Passat is very appealing and certainly in my top two or three cars to replace my current (second) BMW. Having said that, if there is no "Stir your own" option (with a real clutch and pedal), I'll be looking elsewhere. That would be a pity as it looks like this new Passat could be a real winner for VW.
Regarding the engines, I haven't driven any of the current crop of VAG engines, however, back in the late 1990s, when I compared the 2.8 VR6 vs. to 2.8 V6 in the likes of the A4, I found that my "Butt Dyno" much preferred the low end torque of the VR6 to the rather lethargic feeling Audi V6. Assuming that comparison still holds true, I think that it is a very good thing that VW is going back to the VR6 for the Passat.
Best Regards,
Shipo
http://www.cwwcardesign.com/cars/vwpassatcoupe.html
The pic I posted above of the coupe shows it as a four door...and is actually on the road driving.
The link you provided shows what appears to be a photo edited version of the current released photos only 2 doors.
I’d be surprised to see the 4.2V8 in the transverse layout of the Passat.
That site may be playing fantasy land...
I was all set on buying the new BMW 3 series touring this Sept but found out it will not exist here until late 2006.
That in itself is a blessing in disquise since now I will be able to comparison shop between the new Passat wagon( I am confident it will be out by late 06), the A4 3.2 manual tranny version and the new 3 series touring.
The pre-requisite for my new car will be a manual tranny---HOPE VW is listening!
Precisely right and based on the new improved engine selections it will remain one. The Toyota Avalon? Fantastic car if you like soft luxury at a value price versus Lexus. Is Avalon a driver's car? Personally I would rather be a Avalon passenger than a driver.
Hey, anybody at VWoA listning? When a new E90 lands in my garage that will make something like $125,000 in car sales that would probably have gone to VWoA instead of BMW, if only you hadn't cancelled the manual transmission from the 1999 Passat GTX. Do you folks REALLY want to make that same mistake again?
Best Regards,
Shipo (a former loyal VW driver)
M
I am surprised you are already contemplating changing cars.
With VW's move upmarket and Toyota's attempt to go after a younger demographic with the new Avalon, there will be far more cross-shopping of these two vehicles than in the past.
I don't believe VW's upmarket move includes Toyota or the Avalon. I wouldn't call that upmarket.
I think these cars are worlds apart, both in actual performance, and in demographics. Here are a few excerpts about the Avalon from autoweek:
...If, however, you just want something relaxing in which to haul your golfing buddies to the 19th hole, you have found the perfect car.
It’s the coddling and soothing that probably means the most to buyers in this demographic (average age 66).
The new Avalon is built for ride comfort over handling, and it achieves that well, with so much isolation you float as if in a dream...
Last year Toyota sold just 36,460 Avalons. Buick spills more than that off the back of the transport truck. But remember, those baby boomers who have been ruling demographics for generations now are all growing up into their AARP years, so being ready to coddle them with a nice, comfy Avalon just makes good business sense.
I could say more, but will refrain.
We shifty types are a statistical anomaly. We may go to BMW or Porsche, or Volvo or whoever du jour offers the manual transmissions. My friend, who sold his VW/Audi dealerships said he lobbied VW and Audi for manual cars -- the A6 was first brought to market with only an auto -- the following year or the year after it was offered with a stick shift. The cars sat on the lots.
I figured it was because they were strippies -- no options. OK, so that may have been a factor, but my dealer owner friend said he brought in some maxed out A6's with sticks and they just sat there.
Even when the 2.7T came out and offered a no charge 6speed manual -- and more sport lux stuff could be had -- the stick versions withered and died on the lots.
Over at one of the two BMW dealers here in River City, it is hard to take a car with a stick shift out for a test drive -- there are fewer than 15% of the ones on the lot so equipped.
Believe me, if 85% of the customers wanted sticks (or even 25% for that matter), the inventory would actually show up.
VW has assessed the market and determined that a stick shift would languish on the lots, losing value, costing "floor plan" dollars and so forth.
I participate all over this forum and whenever I even hint that someone should buy their new S4 or allroad or A4 with a stick shift, I am not surprised to be told to butt out.
I encourage folks to take seriously long test drives of stick shift cars -- far as I can tell, it falls largely on deaf ears (or blind eyes as the case may be since this is a written forum).
I've decided, rather than becoming twisted and bitter and ticked about it, to realize that mass customization. could fix this, but there seems to be little impetus to make this happen.
Finally, there are virtually no American cars with sticks -- you would think if the customer wanted a new CTS with a stick shift that there would be more choices than the 400HP V8 version -- but, nope, if you want a stick, you have to be looking at the low end or the over the top end.
At this moment, at least you can still get an Audi S4 with a stick and the 2.0T version, too. Maybe if enough people bought one of those in lieu of the Passat auto trans, VW would respond appropriately to the market.
We have met the enemy and it is us!
Interesting stats about the lack of enthusiasm for manuals among VW/Audi buyers! BUT if Passat has any plan to compete with BMW 3series Infiniti G35 and the new upcoming manual Lexus IS, they should follow the success of their competitors.
No wonder there are comparisons with the Passat to the Avalon!
I agree with Shipo about BMW, I will wait another 618 days for the BMW 3 series Touring with manual. Once upon a time I was very eager about owning a VR6 manaul Passat wagon, what a shame!!!
Regarding how large the market is for manual transmissions, well, I suppose it depends upon where you look. When I leased my first BMW (a 1999 328i), it was because VW failed to offer a stick on the 1999 Passat GLX (after offering it 1998 and offering it again in 2000 (I think)), I happened to ask my salesman (oddly enough, he was the same guy who leased me my 1995 Passat GLX 5-Speed at a dealership 60 miles away), "How many 3-Series cars do you sell with a manual transmission?" His response surprised me, "Oh, a little over 50%." Yikes, a dealership moving over 50% of their 3-Series BMWs when the national average is something around 25%, and this in the NYC metro area no less. They are doing something right. ;-)
Regarding what dealerships order for inventory; were it that I was a dealer selling BMWs or other sport sedans of their ilk, I would probably attempt to only keep a very small number of cars on hand with a manual transmission (for test drives), with all of the rest of my cars for inventory being ordered with an automatic transmission. Maybe I'm totally wrong about this; however, my impression is that most folks that prefer to drive a manual transmission are also the very type that are inclined to order a car as opposed to picking one off the lot. In our case, my wife and I have custom ordered 8 out of our last 8 cars, and 6 of them were built to said orders (the other two were found in the pipeline with EXACTLY the options we ordered).
As far as making money building manual transmission cars, I've opined a number of times on this issue as well (in fact, I think one of those times was in an exchange with you on this very topic). Given that the cost of certifying a car here in the U.S.A. is fairly steep, and given that the population of "throw backs" that still drive stick shifts is shrinking every year, thus costing more per car for the aforementioned certification, I think that the vehicle manufacturers should make the manual gearbox an extra cost option. That would have two positive effects (at least I think it would):
1) It would up the profitability of manual transmission equipped cars, making them more desirable to build and sell, and
2) It would force those who routinely brag, "Yup, I got her with all of the options", to order a manual transmission.
Personally, I'd gladly pay a similar premium to what automatic transmission buyers have paid for years for a manual transmission.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have been generally pleased with my Passat and wish VW all the best, but they seem hell-bent on charging top $$ for their good stuff, and their chronic quality issues are making me nervous.
I realize that auto makers say economies of scale is what forces certain option packages, but if the consumer is willing to pay a small premium, then why not let that person order the vehicle however they want it - especially if that vehicle is made in another country.
Tue, but how about the 2.0T with a 6 Speed auto this combo may be “better”.
I haven’t seen any info regarding the base price of a 3.6L.
All I’ve seen is the maxed out 3.6L costing 38K or so. In a stripped version (similarly or better equipped than the
Avalon) it may be competitive; within a couple grand or so.
Then again, if VW wanted to generate a little more market differentiation, they would allow a manual transmission to be optioned with the rumored 280 HP VR6. Yeah, yeah, I know, "It ain't gonna happen." Oh well, "Hello BMW." ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
The Avalon will probably not be a great handling car -- but it will probably be more than adequate and it will certainly be a fine "road car" if the road is, say, from Cincinnati to Lexington or Columbus (interstate routes that is).
I hate to admit this, but driving a new CTS from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh and back over the weekend (an Enterprise rental) was quite an easy task (not easier than my allroad, but my allroad was $14,000 more than the Caddy as equipped).
Much as I love VW's and Audis, I can at least understand the allure (a bit) of the Avalon.
Having said that, it just seems that 280HP through the front wheels would make the Avalon, should we say "twitchy."
Even money, an AWD auto Passat vs a premo equipped Avalon -- I'd probably take the Passat in a heartbeat, OK, two heartbeats (but I would certainly not overlook the A4 -- but that Passat HP and engine at that price would equate to a 200HP 4 cylinder A4.)
The premium cars -- and this is good for all -- have some serious competition.
AWD would be a plus for the top-end B6 if you live where this is a factor (I don't). On the other hand, the Avalon is roomier and probably will be more reliable.
Obviously this comparison is premature, since the new Passat isn't even out yet. I don't plan to buy my next car until it is, and the B6 will definitely be on my short list.
I agree. They should use the 280hp engine in a sporty R36 variant an offer the regular 3.2L V6 as the mid-level trim at 250hp for about 24-27K, in line with similarly powered cars. Either that or give the customer the option of having less options that they don't need in order to get the 280hp V6 for under 30K. Sometimes I don't understand VW, they want sales but then price themselves out of contention.
A 35K, 280hp Passat is going to be a really neat car, but at 35K it won't sell enough units for VWoA to turn around their problems.
Interestingly enough a loaded Maxima can top 35K too, but you get the 265hp V6 standard no matter what you choose in options.
M
I shudder when I see Avalons being discussed here.
My 2001.5 GLX 5sp is off lease now and I can't wait for the fall so a new 2005.5 Audi A4 2.0 Quattro will be in my garage Thursday night. My wife and I got so delerious on Saturday that we traded in our Subie LL Bean and she picked up a 2005 Allroad 2.7 today.
To chip in on a previous thread, BOTH are manuals.
congrats