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Comments
My worries about an out of warranty Passat, and a first year new Passat, are the same as yours.
Hence my interest in the new Avalon -- but I will give the new Passat a try.
Anyhow, I've been eyeing the 06 Passat. I certainly do hope and expect VW to offer it with a manual trans.
Did you know the new Mazda 5 minivan will have a manual transmission?
http://broadcaster.freespeed.de/broadcaster.php?s=1060&t=67
Good for Mazda! I heard the new BMW x5 will have no manual. That must mean the future BMW Minivan(oops I meant Multi-Functional vehicle as they defensively call it at Munich) will not have manual. Shame, Shame BMW---do not forget your core market!
It is nice to know that there are some devoted stick lovers out there.
Best Regards,
Shipo
M
The maxed out will go against Acura, Lexus and Infiniti and Audi
M
Perhaps the loaded Passat is only meant to move current VW cliental (and enthusiasts) upscale.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in a few years.
It's an alternative to the Acura TL,Infinity G sedans, and Lexus ES 300's that are in the same mid 30's price range. The new Passat will also appeal to those who can't step up to Audi dollars.
Sarcasm to follow:
Whether we like it or not, our vehicles make a statement about us. Why should I spend $38K if nobody can tell I did?
Best Regards,
Shipo
That's true but passersby, neighbors, and co-workers aren't driving?
What I mean is that a $12-14K spread in base to top line model is way too much IMHO. There should almost be 2 models for that price range.
Personally I like cars with manual transmissions, and I cannot tell you the number of times that folks have chided me for skimping on the "Most Important Option" (at least in their mind), an automatic transmission. I've even had car salesmen tell me, "You don't really want a stick; nobody will buy it when you want to sell it." The point is that you are buying a car for YOU, not for family (excepting maybe your spouse), friends, co-workers, car salesmen or the person who is going to buy it after you are done with it.
Regarding you argument about a $12-14K spread, that really isn't very much these days. There is a $19,775 min/max spread on a Chrysler 300, and a whopping $29,700 on a 5-Series BMW (and the even pricier M5 isn't even out yet).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Why on earth would anybody care what a passerby or stranger thinks?
So what if the top model is 50% more than the base. Look at the Accord. The Hybrid at $30,000 is nearly twice as expensive as the DX at $16000. Look at a mainstream minivan like the Sienna - priced from $24k to $42k.
As for the price range, I'm just having a difficult time seeing the Passat have that big of a range - or even ranging into the high $30's. I think VW is trying to cover too broad of a spectrum with the new Passat - mid-level family car to mid to entry-level luxury car. I realize they are trying to move upmarket but I think they can't do it that quickly.
I have a hard time understanding this concern. I suppose there are consumers out there who are hyper-conscious of image projection, I just can't connect with this thinking.
In fact, the opposite is generally true for me and many other sensory-types who truly enjoy driving a well engineered machine. The more "sleeper", the better! And a well engineered vehicle can run the gamut cost wise, from 20K to 500K.
As for VW's effort to move up market too quickly, well, it's already done - and it's called the Phaeton.
The strength of chassis/motion control dynamics with this platform (passat)as well as an industry leading interior execution will more than justify and support an additional 15-20k in options if so desired.
I don’t see most VW’s, especially the Passat as basic transportation. I place most VW’s at the top of my list.
I place the VW Passat over Honda’s and Toyota’s During test drives a few years ago I rated a Jetta higher than a Lexus ES300.
For a 280hp AWD, NAV, well handling (taking liberties here) car, with parts/features raided from the Phaeton. A MAX of 38K may seem like a bargain. How about no Nav, AWD and some other indulgences removed. 34K doesn’t sound too bad.
And of course, we’re talking MSRP here. So after the hype is over (as it always is), take a couple grand off of that (or more).
Now don't get me wrong, I like the Passat but I just don't think it is a $38K vehicle. It doesn't meet my value proposition at that price. Well equipped at $24-$26K - yes.
By that do you mean that you think that a Passat equipped with the 280 HP VR6, AWD, Nav, Leather, upgraded Audio System, Xenon headlights and whatever else a maxed out Passat will have should be priced (MSRP) at $24-26k?
Personally I think that is stretching things a little as I don't think any manufacturer in the world would be able to offer a comparable car at that low price. If nobody else can, why should VW?
Best Regards,
Shipo
VW's and Audis (and even the one BMW that my wife and I had) have always been "comparable" cars. My wife and I are both over 50, Ok, she's exactly 50.
We grew up thinking Jettas were "special" cars, we have owned: Audi 4000, 5000, 80, 90, 100, coupe, A4, A6, S6, allroad and TT; VW Jetta, Quantum and Passat (and lusted after Sciocco's and GLI's and GTI's and Touaregs) and even owned 1 BMW 325ix. These cars are (in our minds) all in the same league (not all on the same team, but you get the drift).
Perhaps those who are in their 20's, 30's and 40's see VW as something else. Growing up, when my dad brought home a VW, I thought "something big" must've happened. VW's have always been spoken of with reverence and averted eyes (Ok, I'm getting carried away).
A $38,000 Passat? Compared with the BMW 325xi and 330xi and Audi A4 2.0T and 3.2 and Mercedes C class and Infiniti G35x, etc etc etc (and don't forget Volvo's S40 and S60 while we're at it).
This Passat, thusly priced and I assume lavishly decked out with AWD, great power, 6 speed tip, full screen navi, ESP, Brake+Assist/ABS and all electronic goodies in current production in der fatherland --- take a deep breath, will be a bargain.
If, "maintenance" is included in the price, this thing ought to sell, limited only by how many of them that can be screwed together for delivery.
Even if the maintenance is NOT included, this car will be very competitive. All the folks I know see VW as in the near Premium class -- who knows this new Passat may kick it up to the bottom rung of the Premium class. It isn't an Audi or a Bimmer, but it will be thousands less.
I quickly add, the lease and/or finance arm better get in concert with the rest of the marketing of this car or, like my friend who cross shopped a Passat GLX 4Motion and an Audi A4, found that the A4, with the higher sticker, was less money on a 36 month lease than the lower priced Passat.
Of course, other's perceptions of VW may be (and obviously are) lower than mine.
No. The current GLS with leather package, 1.8, stick MSRP's around $26,500 with destination. I think a similar new model should sticker between that and $27.5K.
V6, AWD, NAV, HID's could all be items that might add $6,000 to the MSRP for a GLX version at $33-34K or so.
Now I realize the new car will be bigger with more powerful engine than the outgoing, but I don't see how they can price the new model appx 14% higher MSRP (current GLX $33K vs new top of line $38K). All manufacturers now come out with bigger, better, and more powerful at much smaller increases - 2-3%.
You can get a lot of car for $38K from other manufacturers with more prestige (yes that's important to many folks), better dealership experience, included service, and better long term reliability.
At $38K, the Passat doesn't present a good value proposition TO ME. Your opinion may differ.
I would therefore not disagree that you can get a lot of car from other manufacturers for $38K, but I can't think of one at that price that has "more prestige." The new Passat will certainly have the looks and content to compete -- the only area where it may come up short is to those who don't perceive VW as a near Premium brand.
This doesn't mean I think you are wrong if you think the VW has "lower" prestige than say, Volvo or whoever else you are thinking of -- it is just to point out that some folks think of VW as something special, not something pedestrian.
Prestige to me is an acquired label that comes along with premium/luxury brand postioning. Audi, BMW, Cadillac, MB, Jaguar - even Volvo and Saab have it. I counter that for $38K MSRP, you can get a lot of car from any of those manufacturers. Additionally, premium/prestige labeling includes dealership experience, reliability, and the entire model spectrum. Offering a premium vehicle at the top of the line does not create a trickle down effect onto the entry level models.
As for my opinion of the VW brand - yes I see it as pedestrian. I've never thought of it as being anything special. My Dad back in the mid 70's cross shopped the Rabbit against the Vega. I recall that in the early 70's in Boston, if you owned a VW you were most likely a struggling grad student or a professor not willing to pony up for a Volvo. If my Dad had come home with a Rabbit, trust me, it wouldn't have been a hallowed event.
Please note - I'm not saying the vehicle won't be an good choice. I'm just not buying the idea of a successful $38K Passat. I think it's too much of a stretch in one leap. Heck, I'm feel the same way about a $40k Subaru.
Faced with spending, say, $35k on any sedan right now, my first choice would probably be a G35. Better reliability, better dealers...without quite as much room inside as the new Passat.
The current Passat is a good car; the new one promises to be better. But VWoA and its dealers have to make the total ownership experience a whole lot better than most people get [follow some of the problems on this board, and on other, VW-specific websites] in order to justify pricing it in the $30s and up. Straight comparisons of one car vs another miss this point - buying the car is usually the easy part - living with it and getting problems solved [and there have been plenty of those with the current car] is an entirely different ballgame. What was/is OK when you're competing in the entry level is entirely different when you want to be compared to the best.
Given a choice, I would opt for the Audi version of any given VW product/platform just because, at least in the markets I know, their dealers are better than VW [but still not anything to brag about - the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura folk all do a better job at keeping their customers happy].
There are good VW dealers out there - I know of a couple from my own experience - but the horror stories from some owners suggest that VW has a long way to go in this country to play in the part of the sandbox to which VW management aspires.
On the other hand, I also believe that part of the reason for its floppage was the fact that it was NOT marketed or advertised aggressively.
The two W8's my local dealer had in stock were never positioned in any way (I mean on the lot or showroom floor) to point at them as if to say "hey look at me!"
So, much as I hate to concede on facts, I do so concede.
However, on my own perception and emotion, the new Passat at the top o the line configuration "ought to knock the ball out of the park!"
My dad didn't come home with a Rabbit -- no no no, he came home with (eyes averted, head bowed) a shiny black Beetle! I thought he had been promoted -- it was a German car for Pete's sake, "we've got a German car." Uh, I wasn't old enough to drive -- it was a small midwestern town, mmm, er, I was easily impressed?
But I would not be interested in Passat anyway since VW is only offering vinyl (or leather) interior.
I won't buy a car that forces appearance over comfort features on me...why would I want to sit on plastic covered seats instead of cloth, why would I want to hold a wood steering wheel instead of leather?
The exterior looks great, though.
are you sure cloth won't be available for the NA market?
I am hoping the Jetta value edition will not be an el-cheapo interior, as that is apparently the only VW left with cloth. If it is a crappy interior, we will probably go for the Volvo S40.
Also, the 2006 Passat shown in the Geneva Auto Show seems to have cleaner lines than earlier pictures I've seen of the 2006. Which is the real Passat?
rivo
There are a few others that offer similar “automatic” manual transmission, such as Toyota and BMW, but this one has DUAL clutches. The next gear is pre-selected so when you push the lever to [non-permissible content removed] up, it is almost an instantaneous shift. When left in automatic mode it supposedly is just as good as or better than other top of the line auto transmissions (this information what I have read, never driven one).
The mileage is also supposed to be better (slightly) than a manual and since all your shifts are “perfect” it really is the best of both worlds.
The only “problem” I see, so far, is that VW/Audi has not included it in EVERY auto and has not marketed this revolutionary transmission.
The new Passat, here anyway, is supposed to start at around 24K. That seems well under the magic 30K figure (plus options of course). Obviously loaded up it goes to around 38K, but in that category it competes with autos in a much higher category than a classic 4 door family sedan.
I love the new design theme; maybe I'm the only one...heh
for the past few months your photo posts have been great. Thanks!
Now for the Golf it is a fact that it has been a big disappointment for VW. It all boils down to price. Europeans are flocking to other cheaper European/Japanese/Korean models.
i also read the new golf is selling well.
some people accept changes in the car world better than others. just imagine if the internet was as common in the mid eighties as it is today. how many people would be ridiculing the japanese for making a $20k sedan (remember the acura legend)? gasp! a VW over $30k.
Which VW?
A fully loaded Passat for 38k is too high? Any fully loaded vehicle's MSRP price looks outrageous to me. You got to focus on the base price and price in the option you yourself want and then make a judgement about price. Also brushing up on negotiating skills can also help.
I am a man with simple needs and I would be satisfied with a base manual Passat with minimal options. Based on my needs a Passat is compelling value.
STYLING, however, had absolutely nothing to do with the problem with sales - it was price, price, price, which is precisely why I think VW had better be pretty darned careful about how they approach both the new Jetta and new Passat in this market. They solved the problem in the EU by doing the "unthinkable" - official discounts in the form of free A/C [no, it's not standard on most Golf EU models] - voila, sales started to recover, and as of right now, seem to be OK, if not quite as stellar as VW was hoping.
Both the Japanese [who are finally understanding how important it is to have good diesels in the EU market] and GM, in the form of the new Opel Astra, have been making the new Golf seem like a very expensive proposition for what's being charged. It remains to be seen how VWoA applies their pricing model for the Passat to our market. Personally, I'm betting there is trouble ahead, but I would be happy to be proved wrong.
Anyway, the Golf did indeed flounder there for awhile, and it was all about how much they were charging, not how the car looked or how it drove [everybody loved it when the EU car mags did their initial reviews].
"The Volkswagen Golf is once again the most popular car in Europe...the Golf regained the top of the registration statistics for Western Europe even in the first half of 2004.
In the second half of the year, it was able to increase its lead by a greater margin. With approximately 569,000 registrations between January and December, it was about 72,000 units ahead of its nearest rival."