People are not going to be cross shopping the xB. People who want a bigger truckish-wagon type vehicle with a bigger engine and funky styling are going to get the xB and those who care about fuel economy will get the xD. If you want the xB, just pay the extra money over an xD and buy it and if you want to be able to average over 30 mpg anywhere other than on extended highway drives, get something else. People who want a conservative small sedan will get the Corolla and will not be seriously looking at xB and xDs even if they are around the same price or less.
I'd love to see a Limited above the LE in the same way the Avalon has it. The Ltd would be just that limited in number but having all the Euro-niceties including Navi, leather, BT+JBL 440 watt, a manual ( 1823 ) and an AT ( 1824 ).
Yep that's exactly why I put it at $22K. It does overlap the Camry, the Base CE and Base LE, which are bigger, softer cushier, more powerful, and very.....basic.
For the same dollar amount you could get a mini-Lexus or a less powerful XLE Camry. A small volume would not affect Camry sales that much but it sure would give the Corolla some sparkle.
Civic also sells the upscale, very sporty Si for $21-22,000, perhaps Toyota's new 2.0L could fit into an upscale Corolla. Honda somehow succeeds at overlapping Civic/Camry prices.
Did't they try this with the current model a year or two ago? There was a fully loaded LE that sold with every bell and whistle including leather seats and a very fancy stereo (no NAV or HIDs though) with a sticker over $20 grand. Nobody bought them, which is why Toyota cancelled the factory leather option this year (or was it last?).
I think the compact car segment is changing a little bit - the Mazda3 initiated this change, and now the Civic is bumping it a long a little bit. I think Toyota should try this again with the next-gen, offering a proper Limited, but will the king of mainstream volume do it? I say the chances are next to nil.
On a different note, I notice that the '08s are on the lots now, and the new EPA rating is down to 26/35 from 30/38. I realize it's the same powertrain making the same gas mileage as the '07s, but still I hope they really boost that up for the new model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Good ideas, but, yes, not much of a chance...do the manufacturers ever poll the dealers/sales force for ideas? You'd think that would be a good source...
What are these blogs for if not to discuss these things?
Still not enlightened. In your posting you were comparing a Jetta to a Golf. Not Jetta to Corolla or Gulf to Corolla. Also in your posting you included a link to the 2007 Jetta along with your "long hard search for a used low mileage Golf." So I still don't see your point.
If it was more comfortable, it would have sold better. Slapping leather on bad seats isn't appealing. Maybe some nice 6 or 8 way adjustable seats and telescoping wheel would have been attractive.
The rolla's final design was set a long time ago...It will look exactly like what the rest of the world (except Japan) will get. The new rolla is going upscale with interior space comparable to a Camry's. Toyota delayed Corolla's North American launch was due mainly by giving priority to the Tundra. Also, giving more time for the assembling plants to setup new equipment because the platform is actually all new based off of the current rav4 and to minimize any kinks that might occur. Safety will be greatly improved as with interior noise, vibration and harshness.
... I'd go out on a limb to say that the new Corolla's interior looks BETTER in quality than the new Camry's. Additionally, don't forget that the new Corolla is going to be introduced under Toyota's recent quality initiative, to address the shortcomings regarding recent launches (the Highlander is the first model to benefit from this program).
I agree with others here regarding trim and equipment, with a few other comments: CE w/ 1.8L SE w/ 2.0L - note that I'd like this to be more along the lines of the SE/Sport/Touring variants of the Camry/HL/Avalon, which are more than body kits and actually tidy up handling a bit LE w/1.8L or 2.0L option XLE 2.0L
The new rolla is going upscale with interior space comparable to a Camry's.
I seriously doubt that. It would only take sales away from the I4 Camry, which is the big seller in the Camry lineup. More likely, the interior will grow a little, but will be significantly less space than the Camry has.
As for the delay in releasing the new Corolla due to giving priority to the Tundra: it has been widely reported that the reason the Corolla has been delayed a year is that Toyota went back to the drawing board to make changes to better compete with the likes of the Civic.
I would certainly expect safety to be greatly improved on the next Corolla, since that is a weak spot for the Corolla now vs. some competitors. I expect at least 6 airbags, active front head restraints, and ABS standard, and wider availability of VSC. I also expect to see a standard telescopic wheel to fix the driving position problem of the current car.
The interesting thing for me is to see what Toyota will put on the new Corolla that is class-leading. All of the things I just mentioned (with the exception of VSC) just bring the Corolla up to par with cars like the Civic and Elantra. Will the new Corolla set class standards for NVH, interior appointments, fuel economy, or ??? We'll see in a few months.
Good marketing hype by Toyota. Note that the Edmunds.com folks didn't buy it. I don't, either. If relatively little Hyundai can roll out nine new designs within 30 months, including four all-new models, certainly huge, profitable Toyota can handle a Corolla rollout along with a few other models.
What this means to you: Toyota is flush with cash and firing on all cylinders. So why would they delay this redesign? Mysterious.
Why release 5 new models in less than 1 year? When you release too many vehicles at once, they lose their market significance, and you can't push the new models properly. Nissan made the blunder a few years ago with Pathfinder, Titan, Murano, Maxima, and Frontier all getting redesigned at the same time.
Hyundai hasn't done any better. They have more models than last year, the whole line-up is brand new, and sales have been flat for 18 months. They deserve a hearty handshake on that.
Tundra, HL, Sequioa and Land Cruiser are all redesigned this year.
Think about it. Would you want the Best-selling car in the World's redesign to get lost in that?
And Corolla just set a sales record, furthering Toyota's plan. The market likes the current Corolla just fine.
Toyota is flush with cash because they spend their money wisely. Toyota knows what they're doing.
All those vehicles you listed are trucks or SUVs. It would not have hurt Toyota one bit to release the new Corolla this year, as it's a car and not in the same market as those other vehicles. I can't imagine the world's best selling car getting lost among a truck and 3 SUVs. How many debuts does Toyota have coming up this fall? How about releasing the Corolla this fall, instead of waiting for 2008? I think the reason is, the Corolla needed more time to get its act together. And that's fine. It will obviously be great, given Toyota had six years to work on it.
The new Tundra launch is considered as important as the launch of the Camry since this is Toyota's gateway to the huge pickup truck market dominated by the domestics. Toyota wants to put all its resources to SUVs/trucks this year. Also Toyota will be upgrading its engines to have Valvematic in the future.
Why do so many people still look down on Hyundai? The Sonata is a terrific car and is probably equal to the Camry in most categories. Was very impressed with my Sonata rental last year and if I had been in the market for a mid sized car, I'd probably would have bought one. Since I needed a compact car, the Civic won out over the Corolla easily. The mushy brakes still exisited after 10 model years which really put me off and the awkward seating position put the final nail in the coffin. The mpg's between the two models was a wash as far as I was concerned. We will definitely look at the new Corolla in 2010 when the next new car will be purchased. I just hope Toyota finally addresses it's lousy brakes.
As for the delay in releasing the new Corolla due to giving priority to the Tundra: it has been widely reported that the reason the Corolla has been delayed a year is that Toyota went back to the drawing board to make changes to better compete with the likes of the Civic.
'...widely reported speculation...' is accurate I imagine. The reasoning I think is twofold and very simple. 1) Tundra 2) The new Corolla will not be revolutionary in any way, AFAIK. It won't be a whole lot different than the current model except probably nicer inside and out. If the widely reported speculation was accurate then what was it that 'sent them back to the drawing board'? Was the original design too edgy? Was it even edgier than the Civic and they decided to go back and make it only slightly less bland than this Gen? Engines? The 1.8L dual VVTi would have been a normal progression. Ditto the 2.0L if it is put in as an option.
I think concur with alpha01's summary, I hope there is an XLE trim.
Some of you have to get off the speculation waggon because we are getting the European/Chinese/Australian version design wise. The plant workers that makes the Corolla have already confirmed it. It will be an option of 1.8 or 2.4 for the XRS. Sometime in the cycle, engines will be upgraded to 2.0 valvematic or even the 3.5 for a limited edition.
I would have to agree with you with the exception of the 3.5. There's no room for that power plant in this car. The Tundra has nothing to do with the delayed intro. It's has more to do with the bland design they were going to dump on us. Looked like an old Mazda Protege. I'm betting it looks like the red Chinese Corolla that was posted a few pages back. Who wants to put money on this? :shades: Mackabee
Corolla doesn't need to be a revolution, just an evolution - they should fix some things that stand out now. Interior materials could stand to be a lot nicer, NVH needs to come DOWN (is this a Toyota or what? I mean, COME ON!), and the seating position could use some work - it could sure use a telescoping steering wheel, and maybe higher trims could finally get a driver's seat with power adjustments including lumbar?
And of course they should add all the safety gear that has become standard among all the competition.
That, and keeping the fuel economy high, should do it I think. I will be curious to see what new stuff is optional, as the Corolla lacks some factory options that other cars offer.
And as for the earlier post about transmissions, YES TOYOTA! DO make the auto a 5-speed next time! And I would love to see the next manual have six forward gears, but I won't hold my breath. Toyota is gradually dropping out of the manual game.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There are no real photos of the US interior of the 2009 Corolla floating around the internet, so whatever you saw was completely useless for determining the quality of the interior and materials that will be used.
Sorry Mackabee this is just not accurate. The was no design changes at all. The design and styling was finished 24 months ago well before the Civic debuted.
The some owner/principals saw it then. Plant personnel at the two plants saw it then. Of course it's going to look like the Chinese, and Euro version, seen here previously that was always the original design. It's going to very Camry-ish just on a smaller scale. We are all saying the same thing.
I too doubt that the 3.5L will ever make it into a Corolla. This is some racer's dream. It's not what the Corolla is about.
I am doubtful Toyota would put a power seat on the Corolla, but it's possible. The Jetta has that option, and adding a power seat could reinforce the positioning of the Corolla as the "Lexus of small cars". Even a manual lumbar support would be nice though.
A 5AT would help Corolla compete with Civic, differentiate the Corolla from the Yaris, and help with fuel economy. So it would be a smart move. A 6MT? A nice feature for the S model, but as you said, Toyota is not focusing on manual trannies.
Ya, but did u expect Toyota to put the 3.5 v6 on the rav4? The head engineer of the new Corolla said that the engine bay was designed to also accommodate the 2gr-fe in mind. Also, that engine is in high production volume at Toyota's US engine plants. So it won't be too far fetched.
I hope they don't make it bigger. It's the perfect size right now. (Actually, it was the perfect size a generation ago, but anyway...) This is what I'd like to see done. They should still have the CE for people who just like plainjane transportation, LE with nicer touches like they have now, with the fake wood trim, but put in a JBL or better 6-speaker sound system that can accomodate satellite and iPod, side airbags should be standard, cruise and tilt, AC, no ABS please, give it a softer ride/tires, put the black trim around the windows like before with matching windows and door handles, change the wheels to where they're not ugly. Then the S for the people who like their kidneys to suffer. Put a goofy spoiler on it, more aggressive styling like Mazda3. And after all that, keep the MSRP LOW.
I never said there were design changes. If you look at Toyota worldwide the Corolla is sold in upteen versions. The one they had picked for us just didn't hold up in the styling department so they just chose another version. Heck the current Camry is the same design as the Mark V or VI just change the hood and bingo! Toyota has gotten very adept and changing a cars personality with interchangeable body parts. Don't believe me go to www.toyota.co.jp and look all over. You will be surprised at what you see. Mackabee
Don't believe me go to www.toyota.co.jp and look all over. You will be surprised at what you see.
Is there an English version too this site? At this site every thing is in Japanese. Other than the obvious Scion not sure what vehicle I was viewing? :confuse:
Agreed that all of this is true and the RAV V6 was a shocker but it makes perfect sense now that it overlaps with the new Highlander that has no 4c option.
The Corolla overlaps the Camry so a 2.0L with 150+ hp makes send in comparison to the 160 hp 2.4L in the Camry. the Corolla is still a supporting player to the Camry which is the key element in the entire auto car line. Nothing harms the Camry.
The one they had picked for us just didn't hold up in the styling department so they just chose another version
Again this vehicle was fixed design-wise way before the Civic came out. It always was going to look like the Chinese/European versions which came out last Fall.
Do you think that originally it was going to be blander than it now is? If you look at the Chinese/Euro versions they are practically the same on the outside at our current model. They're a little nicer but there's nothing extraordinary about them. That's what we will be getting.
I think if they do offer optional heated leather as someone suggested above, it would be silly not to offer an optional power seat at the same time, hand in hand in fact. Who ever heard of heated leather seats that you had to pull up on a bar and throw your body back and forth to adjust?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have. Elantra Limited for one in this class has heated leather seats with manual adjustments. I think Sentra SL is going to offer seat heaters with leather for 2008. Usually, the manual adjustments are not so stiff that you have to throw your body back and forth to adjust them, but I suppose there's exceptions to that.
the comment on a 3.5 litre engine in a corolla is the funniest, and yet at the same time, dumbest words ever to be typed on this site.
A 2.0 corolla wont compete with the likes of an si as mcmamus insinuated earlier, especially given that the si is not really an 'upscale' version of the civic as much as it is a performance version. they would need an xrs again to compete.
that is one thing the civic is lacking, i think, a sort of middle point; like an se version with leather as an option; a stiffer supsension and some bigger wheels and maybe either the k20 155hp engine or the euro/jdm spec r20 for almost the same economy with more grunt.
I dunno about the 3 being the leader into the foray of fancy luxury interiors on compact cars; Vw's interiors have totally been owning even japans best in this segment ever since the mkIV jetta and golf; even the best mazda 3's interior is not as nice as the new mkV jettas, and even lacking in some areas compared to the rabbit. Its sportier looking, but not classier feeling. (or looking for that matter.)
Comments
If you want the xB, just pay the extra money over an xD and buy it and if you want to be able to average over 30 mpg anywhere other than on extended highway drives, get something else.
People who want a conservative small sedan will get the Corolla and will not be seriously looking at xB and xDs even if they are around the same price or less.
$22000? would it sell?
For the same dollar amount you could get a mini-Lexus or a less powerful XLE Camry. A small volume would not affect Camry sales that much but it sure would give the Corolla some sparkle.
But I agree it won't happen. [surprise me]
I think the compact car segment is changing a little bit - the Mazda3 initiated this change, and now the Civic is bumping it a long a little bit. I think Toyota should try this again with the next-gen, offering a proper Limited, but will the king of mainstream volume do it? I say the chances are next to nil.
On a different note, I notice that the '08s are on the lots now, and the new EPA rating is down to 26/35 from 30/38. I realize it's the same powertrain making the same gas mileage as the '07s, but still I hope they really boost that up for the new model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Then make the new 2.0 optional in the S, and standard in the LE, adding another 20HP or so. Then make the 2.0 standard for all Corollas in 2011.
That should bolster the lineup. Toyota wouldn't do that, doh.
DrFill
DrFill
Still not enlightened. In your posting you were comparing a Jetta to a Golf. Not Jetta to Corolla or Gulf to Corolla. Also in your posting you included a link to the 2007 Jetta along with your "long hard search for a used low mileage Golf." So I still don't see your point.
I agree with others here regarding trim and equipment, with a few other comments:
CE w/ 1.8L
SE w/ 2.0L - note that I'd like this to be more along the lines of the SE/Sport/Touring variants of the Camry/HL/Avalon, which are more than body kits and actually tidy up handling a bit
LE w/1.8L or 2.0L option
XLE 2.0L
And for pete's sake, can we get 6M and 5A???
~alpha
I seriously doubt that. It would only take sales away from the I4 Camry, which is the big seller in the Camry lineup. More likely, the interior will grow a little, but will be significantly less space than the Camry has.
As for the delay in releasing the new Corolla due to giving priority to the Tundra: it has been widely reported that the reason the Corolla has been delayed a year is that Toyota went back to the drawing board to make changes to better compete with the likes of the Civic.
I would certainly expect safety to be greatly improved on the next Corolla, since that is a weak spot for the Corolla now vs. some competitors. I expect at least 6 airbags, active front head restraints, and ABS standard, and wider availability of VSC. I also expect to see a standard telescopic wheel to fix the driving position problem of the current car.
The interesting thing for me is to see what Toyota will put on the new Corolla that is class-leading. All of the things I just mentioned (with the exception of VSC) just bring the Corolla up to par with cars like the Civic and Elantra. Will the new Corolla set class standards for NVH, interior appointments, fuel economy, or ??? We'll see in a few months.
DrFill
What this means to you: Toyota is flush with cash and firing on all cylinders. So why would they delay this redesign? Mysterious.
Hyundai hasn't done any better. They have more models than last year, the whole line-up is brand new, and sales have been flat for 18 months. They deserve a hearty handshake on that.
Tundra, HL, Sequioa and Land Cruiser are all redesigned this year.
Think about it. Would you want the Best-selling car in the World's redesign to get lost in that?
And Corolla just set a sales record, furthering Toyota's plan. The market likes the current Corolla just fine.
Toyota is flush with cash because they spend their money wisely. Toyota knows what they're doing.
Hyundai not so much.
DrFill
Next year we can get a New Corolla, a new Blade, another Hybrid.
The following year a new Avalon, a sports-type car, another Hybrid.
People like Toyota's cars, so there never really is a rush. This isn't Nissan or Hyundai.
DrFill
We will definitely look at the new Corolla in 2010 when the next new car will be purchased. I just hope Toyota finally addresses it's lousy brakes.
The Sandman
'...widely reported speculation...' is accurate I imagine. The reasoning I think is twofold and very simple.
1) Tundra
2) The new Corolla will not be revolutionary in any way, AFAIK. It won't be a whole lot different than the current model except probably nicer inside and out. If the widely reported speculation was accurate then what was it that 'sent them back to the drawing board'? Was the original design too edgy? Was it even edgier than the Civic and they decided to go back and make it only slightly less bland than this Gen? Engines? The 1.8L dual VVTi would have been a normal progression. Ditto the 2.0L if it is put in as an option.
I think concur with alpha01's summary, I hope there is an XLE trim.
No rush.
DrFill
:shades:
Mackabee
Mack
And of course they should add all the safety gear that has become standard among all the competition.
That, and keeping the fuel economy high, should do it I think. I will be curious to see what new stuff is optional, as the Corolla lacks some factory options that other cars offer.
And as for the earlier post about transmissions, YES TOYOTA! DO make the auto a 5-speed next time! And I would love to see the next manual have six forward gears, but I won't hold my breath. Toyota is gradually dropping out of the manual game.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The some owner/principals saw it then. Plant personnel at the two plants saw it then. Of course it's going to look like the Chinese, and Euro version, seen here previously that was always the original design. It's going to very Camry-ish just on a smaller scale. We are all saying the same thing.
I too doubt that the 3.5L will ever make it into a Corolla. This is some racer's dream. It's not what the Corolla is about.
I fully expect it to look just like that, save for rear fog lights.
DrFill
A 5AT would help Corolla compete with Civic, differentiate the Corolla from the Yaris, and help with fuel economy. So it would be a smart move. A 6MT? A nice feature for the S model, but as you said, Toyota is not focusing on manual trannies.
Mackabee
Is there an English version too this site? At this site every thing is in Japanese. Other than the obvious Scion not sure what vehicle I was viewing? :confuse:
The Corolla overlaps the Camry so a 2.0L with 150+ hp makes send in comparison to the 160 hp 2.4L in the Camry. the Corolla is still a supporting player to the Camry which is the key element in the entire auto car line. Nothing harms the Camry.
Again this vehicle was fixed design-wise way before the Civic came out. It always was going to look like the Chinese/European versions which came out last Fall.
Do you think that originally it was going to be blander than it now is? If you look at the Chinese/Euro versions they are practically the same on the outside at our current model. They're a little nicer but there's nothing extraordinary about them. That's what we will be getting.
This next 9 months will see the Highlander, Sequoia, Corolla and Sienna all new.
So a 150+HP 2.0 sounds like a plan to me.
But people buy Corolla for economy, not for performance, so I don't expect a powerhouse. :surprise:
DrFill
"We were using essentially all engineering resources to make sure Camry launched on time," [Toyota spokesperson John] Hanson said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=a8qUsPyUC_HE&refer=japan
Nightie-night!
DrFill
I think if they do offer optional heated leather as someone suggested above, it would be silly not to offer an optional power seat at the same time, hand in hand in fact. Who ever heard of heated leather seats that you had to pull up on a bar and throw your body back and forth to adjust?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A 2.0 corolla wont compete with the likes of an si as mcmamus insinuated earlier, especially given that the si is not really an 'upscale' version of the civic as much as it is a performance version. they would need an xrs again to compete.
that is one thing the civic is lacking, i think, a sort of middle point; like an se version with leather as an option; a stiffer supsension and some bigger wheels and maybe either the k20 155hp engine or the euro/jdm spec r20 for almost the same economy with more grunt.
I dunno about the 3 being the leader into the foray of fancy luxury interiors on compact cars; Vw's interiors have totally been owning even japans best in this segment ever since the mkIV jetta and golf; even the best mazda 3's interior is not as nice as the new mkV jettas, and even lacking in some areas compared to the rabbit. Its sportier looking, but not classier feeling. (or looking for that matter.)