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Comments
heated cloth seats would be fine by me, and i wouldn't mind it if i had to manually adjust them. I don't 'THROW' my body about to do it either. have we really gotten this lazy?
Mackabee
Mackabee
Mackabee
http://toyota.alsayeronline.com/English/toyota_models/aurion/gallery/interior_10.jpg
Mackabee
Toyota has repeatedly stated that lack of highly qualified engineering expertise is their main limitation now. It's certainly not money and it's certainly not sales volume.
You read the article backwards. Because of the Camry launch most of the engineering was dedicated to the Camry launch. This took resources away from the Corolla launch. Combining that with running into the Tundra launch the good soldier Corolla just got pushed to the rear.
With RAV4 it is too late, but I am certainly hoping that Subaru will not follow suite with the 2009 Forester. That would be very bad.
Mackabee
How can this be the midpoint of the platform's life when the car will be redesigned for next year?
I hope you are right that the 2009 Corolla won't get bigger. But I am not very hopeful, based on history: each Corolla has been bigger than the previous one; each Camry has been bigger; Yaris is bigger than ECHO; each Tundra is bigger; each RAV4 is bigger; each Highlander is bigger... there is a definite pattern here.
Interior room is up fractionally, weight up marginally, trunk size down, and crash protection well improved, earning a 'Good' structure rating from IIHS in side impact, matched only by a few competitors (Passat, Legacy, Galant).
I expect the Corolla to follow suit.
Whatever the case, we'll find out in a few months, with Toyo announcing it will debut the '09 at SEMA.
~alpha
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/17/sema-preview-toyota-to-unveil-2009-corolla-heavy-duty-tundra-a/
DrFill
The Highlander is in reality the Lexus 300 which first came out in 1999. That platform ended it's 10 yr life this year.
10 yrs is not carved in stone but it's a good yard stick.
DrFill
2007 Camry: 3285 lbs., 189.2 in. long, 71.7 in. wide
(Source: multiple, including Motor Trend)
Looks to me like the 2007 Camry is bigger than the previous generation car. They are the same length, but the 2007 is wider and heavier.
Yes, I expect the 2009 Corolla will follow suit: bigger and heavier. Hopefully it will also improve to Good on the IIHS side impact test.
Hey, did you see in the SEMA announcement the note about a Corolla coupe/hatchback? It's not clear if they meant a coupe that is a hatchback, or a coupe and a hatchback, or if they aren't sure which it will be (i.e. is it just a replacement for the Matrix?) It would be good to see a Corolla coupe again, and a hatchback that is a true Corolla 5-door hatch and not a totally different body style ala the Matrix.
The Focus is universally panned, against it's superior cousin. Having driven both a bit, that is pretty clear.
DrFill
:shades:
In parallel the powertrains also run on about a 10 year cycle but they often overlap the platform updates by about 50%.
As an example, the Camry used the 2.2L through all the Gens 2 and 3 but went to the 2.4L for Gens 4 and 5. However the 3.0L/3.3L V6 overlapped Gens 3 and 4 and was new for Gen 5.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/08/earlyshow/living/supersavers/main604717.shtml
Yep, definitely time for a new Corolla!
Having sold a Focus or two, I know it is positioned as some sort of Sports sedan. It is well behind cars like the Mazda3 in that regard. And it won't get better in the 2008 facelift.
Toyota wants the Corolla to be well-built, likeable, and efficient. That's it.
The people approve.
Look at it this way. This Corolla is going out with a bang!
DrFill
But who knows really what toyota is going to do.
I agree the next Corolla will likely be heavier, but given the current size of the Camry in relation to the Avalon, I doubt it will grow - in terms of exterior volume -very much if at all.
As noted, time will tell, SEMA will be here before we know it! The h/b took me by surprise, and I'm hoping this is a separate offering from the Blade nee Matrix.
Toyota managed to make the new Camry 4 cylinder quicker and of the same efficiency as the outgoing model, and V6 MUCH quicker and MORE fuel efficient than the outgoing model, and I hope the Corolla follows suit. (This despite the increased weight).
(Source, Consumer Reports for both acceleration and OVERALL MPG Gen 5 vs. Gen 6).
Actually, the 2007 Camry has LESS interior volume than the 2006 Camry! I sure hope THAT is a formula that Toyota does not repeat with the 2009 Corolla: wider, porkier, but less interior room. Hopefully they will instead follow the formula Hyundai used on the 2007 Elantra: about the same length and weight, and the same power, but better fuel economy, lower emissions, a bigger interior, and more standard safety features.
The formula Hyundai used on the Elantra, eh? Well, ok, I'm pretty sure the Corolla is already ULEV-II, which is pretty decent, but yes, PZEV would be fantastic. And indeed, more standard safety features, but as long as they translate into something (and we can hope the Elantra's do, as compared to the Accent's scores, for example). I just hope that the Corolla doesn't follow the Elantra's sales formula - a 6% decrease YTD through June, despite being a brand new model, in a segment that is growing due to increased fuel costs. (The Sentra has been a very sad story as well.)
Toyota needs lessons from Hyundai like BMW needs Lincoln's help making a suspension.
Regarding the Corolla 2-door, it's too racy for a Corolla. It sounds like a good idea, but so did the Solara.
DrFill
It was a four door hatch, a virtual clone of the Kia C'eed, forthcoming Hyundai i30, 08 Subaru Imprezza, etc. The car was a Toyota Corolla Prima I believe, with temp tags and a German license plate frame. Turned out it was being driven by someone from the German embassy. I did not have the opportunity to talk to them about it.
Whether or not that car reflects our next Corolla, I'm not sure. I do know that what has been sold as the Corolla overseas has been very different from ours. But the size and configuration of this one would make perfect sense as a replacement for what we have now.
If the 2009 Corolla's MSRP is increased as much as the 2007 Elantra's MSRP was increased, and at the same time incentives are cut back, and at the same time Toyota cuts back on the number of Corollas available to sell, then I think it's quite possible we'll see a sales decrease for the new Corolla.
Oklahoma landrush comes to mind. Any good well-respected model should flourish; Corolla, Civic, Focus, Elantra, Mazda3, Cobalt (?), 'Hello, Chrysler? There is a probable surge in demand for smallish fuel efficient vehicles. Did you want to participate?'
DrFill
the new corolla doesn't seem that great anymore; so i'm assuming they will be keeping the torsion beam rear suspension?
I think it's likely incentives will be cut at first--happens to nearly all fresh models. Price increase? Highly likely if the car has more feature content, e.g. safety features. Reduced inventory? Not an issue for Toyota, is it?
I don't know why some of you are so negative bout the Corolla... Have u even driven one before? The current one's ride is quite competent, comfortable and it doesn't roll or plow either. Isn't that what people want?
What WILL happen is you will see Corollas passing $20k, but not go into Mazda3/Jetta territory.
There are different segments of the compact car market.
Civic is basically a Corolla, but it sells to much younger buyers. Coupes and Si models will sell to that market. That's why Corolla will probably never get a 2-door, because that is Honda's market. They market to the sporting driver. Toyota has no heritage in that class. To steep a hill to climb.
Parents want Corollas for their kids, if they are buying them a first car. The kids want a Civic more. Having seen it firsthand, parents get nostalgic about Corolla, and know a friend who sings the praises of their Corolla, and the keep up with The Joneses.
I think a graduate who buys their first car will get a Civic. But a student is more likely to have a Corolla.
Or a used Civic.
Redesignig a compact car is about knowing your place in the market.
Hyundai doesn't know it's place, or wants to change places, and that's where the problems come in. The last Elantra was a good $5 cigar, and now we have Limiteds and stuff their buyer doesn't want.
No Elantra should pass $17k. Period. Know your market.
Civic and Corolla are good cars, but they are just better at knowing and reaching a targeted market.
Every battle is won before it is ever fought.
DrFill
Doc, you're probably too young to remember or weren't born yet. Ever heard of the 1985 Corolla GT-S 2 door coupe? Around $8000.00 and more fun than a Honda!
:shades:
Mackabee
It wasn't any beauty queen, either. I used to see them once in a while. Definitely tried to enter the CRx market.
Apparently, it didn't do too good. :sick:
Supra was a phenomenal ride too. Not seeing those anymore either.
People don't buy sporting Toyotas. Some things will never change.
DrFill
A car with a mid-sized interior, heated leather seats, moonroof, deluxe sound system with XM, 16" alloys, ABS, six airbags, 4 wheel discs, heated power mirrors etc. etc. shouldn't list for much more than a Yaris that has much less feature content? Maybe you should stick to what you know.
P.S. Actually, you can get an Elantra equipped like that for about $17k (or less) + T&L. But not a Corolla.
Really, Elantra is in the EXACT same market as the Corolla, except they attack it from angles.
The last Elantra was successful because it was a great value, but to a price point. If you wanted a $15k car, everybody said look at Elantra. Now you can't do that. The car has changed. The mission has changed.
You said it yourself. Midsized car. Nobody cares if it is now in the midsized class! Get rid of the bells and whistles that Hyundai can't sell, and sell it against the Corolla as a value. You point of no return is $16k.
Corolla knows it's market better than anyone. It does exactly what is expected. People don't go to Toyota to buy a $17-18 Corolla. They just don't. I know from experience. Corolla is a $16k car.
Hyundai has changed Elantra's mission, and it's just like changing the time slot of a good, fledgling show. Hyundai has killed all the momentum the old Elantra developed, by Changing the idea of the car. It's not a car for all people. It can't fight Corolla at $15k and Jetta at $18k.
It's a Hyundai! It's about time Hyundai stuck to what it knows. :surprise:
And when you find out what that is, let me know, because I'm drawing a complete blank! :P
DrFill
Nobody cares if they can by a car that is compact on the outside but has the interior room of a mid-sized car, at the price of some sub-compacts?? That is some great sales-ese, drfill. But wrong. Read the reviews. The roomy interior of the Elantra is universally praised.
But rather than more competitor-bashing, let's talk about the 2009 Corolla. I'd love it if it had a mid-sized interior but a compact exterior, like the Elantra. I'd love it if it were priced like an Elantra--$13.5k-14.5k depending on locale, before negotiating, with full power, ABS, 6 airbags, 6-speaker stereo with satellite radio, etc. I'd love it if Toyota increased its warranty (fat chance there). I'd love a comfortable driving position. Other cars in the Corolla's class offer all of this and more. Soon we'll see how Toyota has responded.
The trunk and back seat are pretty good already. The car doesn't need to get much bigger. The rear end of the car is fine. Materials are very good, especially after you sit in the Yaris, you notice a difference. And obviously economy isn't an issue.
Nobody is asking the Corolla to become some sex symbol either. So things aren't that bad.
DrFill
What would it take for Corolla to be deemed "best in class" by both the media and consumers?
My guesses:
1. Eliminate the silly shortcomings (like the awkward driving position) that are easy to fix.
2. Offer more body styles (coupe, hatchback, wagon, sport).
3. More power while maintaining economy.
4. More room (Americans aren't getting smaller).
5. More features and options.
6. Better handling and sportier feel.
7. Keep the price in line with the best of the competition.
The main flaws are driving position, safety features, and upgrade power.
I also expect telescopic steering, maybe a power seat on the LE. I wouldn't expect Smart Key.
Everything else is for niche makers to cover.
DrFill
Mackabee
The Sandman