Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)
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At the same time, I'm realistic about this and am not approaching this with any particular set of expectations. We'll give it a shot and let the chips fall where they may. Better that than to do nothing imho.
Looking at the specs on the 06 RX 330 the hp rating has been down graded to 223 vs. the 230 of my 04' and the estimated gas mileage has been reduced slightly to 19 city / 25 highway vs. my 04 of 20 city/ 26 highway. Could these numbers have something to do with making this engine and transmission shift smoother...based on some of your previous theories I would say it's possible?
As a side note...I don't make much noise here but do enjoy and appreciate the effort of yourself and the few others that are puttiing forth considerable effort in trying to understand this issue.
This is the thing that bugs me about paying $20K for a car.
edit: re: 1 second: I brake, look atthe RPMs, look both ways at the intersection, hit the gas, then count "one-one-thousand", slowly, and then the car goes.
Not to minimize your concern...I agree...I spent $40K for a lux SUV that does the same exact thing...it really bugs me.
Where do you live in Canada?
You're correct that we don't have Lemon Laws as such, but there are other options which can be equally effective.
http://camvap.ca/eng/media_release.htm
People such as you and I are becoming more numerous. I have no desire whatsoever to own a Toyota anything.
The competition is also not sitting still. While Toyota keeps being smug, they keep coming out with vehicles such as the new Buick Lucerne which has features the Avalon lacks.
Canvap is a very good choice. It's a Federally administered program which extends to all provinces. Your local Administrator for that program in the Lower Mainland area is the Better Business Bureau.
Another option is the Motor Dealer Council in BC. This is an active agency which has proven to be very effective in resolving disputes between buyers and dealers.
You might also wish to contact the BC's Ministry of Transportation. They also have a dispute resolution department which might be helpful to you.
You don't mention taking any action at all with respect to your dealer or Toyota. Regardless of which agency you may decide to utilize, the first action you must take is to give an automaker ample opportunity to correct the problem.
Also, 06 Avalons aren't getting a lot of press about hesitation issues. Yours may be an exception, and that may be a reason where the problem could be corrected by a dealer.
That fact, and your insistence that Toyota has evidently designed in the problem across the board, coupled with the additional condemnation of Vancouver as congested, inadequate, etc., leads me to believe you may not be an easy person to please on many issues.
My family and I lived in BC for a dozen years. In our opinion Vancouver is one of the nicest and most beautiful cities in North America. We go back there often and compared to Toronto and many other big cities, Van. is a delight to drive in. If all else fails, stop for a break at Stanley Park and take a walk around the Seawall. Or spend some time at UBC's Museum of Anthropology. Not many cities anywhere offer all the outstanding venues available in Van.
I also think the Avalon is a darn good automobile.
If, as you say, there is a hesitation issue with yours, It certainly isn't a widespread characteristic. Every one of the consumer polls I've seen are quite positive about the Marque.
Perhaps it could be argued that you're being a excessively harsh in your assessment?
No mention of hesitation, but many posts here have noted the lurching, or something similar.
I have not always agreed with Motor Trend's evaluations, (Chevy Vega, AMC Pacer as Cars of the year, to name just two famous blunders...anyone remember those?) While I never stated that I doubted anyone who experienced these hesitations and lurches, I DID state that I didn't believe that it affected all Toyota/Lexus 5spd automatic dbw vehicles. I know believe somewhat differently. And I did wonder...Was it going to show up in my car at some point? To date, 30,000 miles NO! (Thank goodness)
A poster questioned why those of us who don't experience these hestitations or lurches are on this forum...For me, It is to stay in the loop on updates (TSBs) fixes, and a general interest in all things automotive...and I own one (or more) of the subject vehicles. YES, I am also concerned mildly about resale values, as I tend to trade vehicles at roughly 2 year intervals...altho, I doubt (maybe hope?) this will make any significant dent in values.
I am 99% satisfied with my 05 Highlander's transmission's performance. Perhaps the way I drive, under the conditions I drive...luck? dunno
My conclusion for today..(sorry for being so wordy) ...it exists in all Toyota/Lexus 5 speed dbw configurations to some degree. The driving style, driving habits and traffic conditions coupled with the degree severity of the hesitation, (for lack of better terms at the moment, what I mean is some cars may exhibit more and others less) may or may not cause this to be an issue for any individual owner. I now suspect, that if any of you who have experienced the severist of the hesitations (and are sensitive to it) were to drive my vehicle, you would sense (or cause to happen) some degree of hesitation/lurch in my vehicle as well.
I remain very satisfied with my Highlander, and have no reason to fool with that satisfaction, so until there is a 100% fix that will guarantee no degrading of the way it performs for me now, it is status-quo for me.
For those who are unhappy, I truely hope there is a real fix in the offing.
Respectfully,
Jeff
BTW, I may be confusing you with someone else, but I thought you just bought your Highlander. You put on some major miles if you are already at 30,000 mi.! If you aren't feeling the hesitation now, I think you are probably in the clear.
Jeff
Toyota has come up with some TSB's and a fix, but the jury is still out - some have reported improvement after the fix, others have not. In the Pittsburgh paper's announcement of the fix earlier this year, even the Toyota rep who was interviewed admitted that the fix wouldn't work for everyone. Good luck to you. I hope you find some recourse.
Only a little research would convince you that ALL Toyota/Lexus 5-speed transaxle, FWD, vehicles are showing a high percentage of owners with engine/throttle hesitation complaints going all the way back to the 2002 model year first addressed by a TSB in the spring of 2003.
:lemon:
:lemon:
Get over it. Calling it a lemon is actually a little less harsh than calling it a "design flaw" imho (which would imply every vehicle is noticably afflicted with this symptom).
*** by widespread I only mean a significantly large enough number of owners willing to complain to make the matter very well known publicly.
Is that less than 1% or greater than 10%??
Interesting. I doubt the problem will show up if it hasn't already, knock on wood. Thanks for an honest, upfront post, with no hint of mocking or discounting those of us who experience this truly aggravating symptom.
Email: private
Member since: October 29, 2005
Last login on: November 10, 2005
Just another new member joins to tell us we don't have a problem? What a coincidence.
Anybody have this done that can tell me what to look out for?
Saying "a design flaw in one component" is actually a lot more accurate IMHO. It's a more sober word than "lemon" I think, the later being purely emotional (even if justifiably so).
Now the good news. Evidently, this time I'm not the bad guy.
To Scoti. Not trying to put anyone or anyone's case down in my post earlier, but it did seem like his assesment was slightly on the harsh side, based on what little info was posted at the time. I thought most of what I posted was helpful.
To Wwest. Your blanket condemnation does appear to be somewhat excessive. I don't think you meant it to be as across the board as it sounded. However I respect your opinion if that's what it was. But I don't agree with it either.
To Mert. What exactly is your point in posting the guy's profile? Didn't seem to me that he was saying no one is having problems. Maybe you were just trying to get someone's goat? It does nothing but fan the flames, friend.
if you use two identities and we catch you, you are out of here. Dem's the rules and we have the technology :P
Can happen with any and every product, and does, even my company's.
But here I think we have an extreme case, too many of Toyota/Lexus' 5-speed transaxle products are falling outside the "norm".
Personally I keep thinking about the transaxle's PWM (pulse width modulated) pressure regulating solenoid as being the most probable culprit. I just can't imagine using this device in this manner without some sort of pressure measuring feedback or factory calibration of the positional charactoristics of each solenoid individually.
But then the factory may be doing exactly that but the positional charactoristics are changing over time for some unknown reason.
The good news is that the problem, seemingly, doesn't exist in the 06 models but with a reduced EPA rating of ~1 MPG.
I will qualify my statement---when the workers at BMC and Harley DAvidson were sabotaging the products on the assembly line, then maybe yes you'd have a real lemon---but that was purposeful destruction (sometimes they'd leave a gear out of the transmission or leave bolts out here and there.
That makes a LEMON.
In this case maybe the MAF, the IAT, and both of the "front" oxygen sensors all end up on the end of the tolerance that causes the vehicle to always run rich and thus be less subject to knock/ping. Remaining, or upshifting, into higher gears would be then more "acceptable".
let's say the vehicle is 99% operating properly, but since delivery or shortly following delivery, 1% is not functioning properly. let's say that this 1% causes distraction from the main task of driving, dis-sastisfaction, an owner to feel unsafe in some driving scenarios, frustration because the dealer says everything is normal...attempts at a solution are stone-walled or unsuccessful. other people with the vehicle simply don't have the problem. lemon is an unfair label?
"lemonosity"?
shifty - exactly what % of a vehicle has to fail to operate properly to be a labeled a lemon? 1%, 10%, 25%, 50%?
does it have something to do with severity, or time in the shop, or fixability?
what if 100 things go wrong with a vehicle but those 100 things are fixed promptly and competently at a dealer when the vehicle is brought in? you know chronically in the shop, fixable, but taking up an owner's effort and time? "lemonosity" or lemon?
your criteria is subjective. some might say, as subjective as the hesitation problem itself. for the people with the problem, it's not subjective, it's objective...it's just not backed up with captured and comparative data and a detailed understanding of the design of the system and it's proper operation.
i believe 100% in reports that some people with these model vehicles have absolutely no problem (not just that they don't percieve a problem), and some population (size unknown) has an issue but the owners don't deem it significant or don't notice it (perhaps because of driving style - we don't know), and some population (size unknown) has a significant problem.
one might imagine this situation is possible, not because of a design flaw (although the driver classification algorithms are possibly contributing), but i believe because of some part or parts failing to meet specifications (as wwest indicated)...this happens, or because the sub-system was not put together properly...this happens too.
by characterizing it as one part exhibiting "lemonosity" is to (perhaps unconsciously) invalidate and marginalize the reports of these owners. i'm sure it's not your intent.
rather than split hairs on the labeling of a vehicle in it's entirety based on the performance of the transmission or engine, or whatever parts are involved, i personally think we should be collectively sponsoring the purchase of an OBD-II reader capable of interfacing to a laptop to capture this phenomenon in gory detail so we can pick it apart and speak to it using understandable language for everyone...
leighanne4, "Toyota Highlander Owners: Problems & Solutions" #1914, 27 Oct 2004 10:48 pm
leighanne4, "Toyota Highlander Owners: Problems & Solutions" #1943, 4 Nov 2004 10:12 pm