"It is conceivable that the long-term effects of exposure to traffic nanoparticles may interfere with normal brain function and information processing."
This may help explain some of the posts in this forum.
Traffic nanoparticles -- that must be the politically correct term for diesel soot.
The price for diesel in New York is now $4.24. A year ago AAA was reporting about $2.89. Lets see, that would be an increase of $1.35 in one year. At this rate diesel will be over $5 in seven or eight months. I would think that at some point the prices will level off or even drop. Are we on top of a bubble about to burst???
The bad news is that the high diesel prices will take a bit to work their way through the economy (transportation charges, people deferring the cost by buying fuel on credit cards). There is a whole lot of ugly going on out there... :sick:
The price difference between RUG and diesel is about 85 cents or 25% in NY. Until the price differential decreases diesel cars are not going to make much headway. You would think that at some point the difference between RUG and diesel would go down as refineries switch their process. At least I assume refineries will be producing more diesel in the future. Anyone know of a local refinery that plans to make the switch or increase diesel production?
I am glad that our family does not need to buy a vehicle right now or in the near future. What will be the best option - RUG, diesel, hybrid, plug-in, E85 or ?? -- sort of like the Fog of War.
“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” General George S. Patton Jr.
An increase in mass transit usage is a good thing. That means less wasted tax dollars. I had dinner the other evening in Oggie's at the Trolley Center. I never counted more than 6 passengers in the 4 car trolley going by us. I think there is still over $100 million drain on the tax payers in San Diego. It still costs more for me to ride mass transit than drive my Sequoia with the two of us. The only upside I can see to Mass transit is not having to find a parking spot downtown.
"It still costs more for me to ride mass transit than drive my Sequoia with the two of us."
Are you sure? What are the true costs for each system? There are a lot of hidden taxes and the like. Would we need car insurance or the DMV if there were no cars? Think about the massive infrastructure we have to support cars. The true cost for your Sequoia is 70 cents a mile or more. After adding in all the other hidden costs the mass transit system is probably cheaper. From Edmund's True Cost to Own True Cost to Own* $52,509 view details Total Cash Price $35,435 view details Average Cost per Mile* $0.70 compare similar vehicles
The article has a problem in that all U.S. diesels are now fitted with particulate filters which remove better than 95% of the particulate produced by a diesel engine. They are fitted to all diesels sold here.
In Europe, the vast majority of diesels do not have particulate filters and will not be required to have them for a few more years.
The article really didn't have a problem. I posted the message for a bit of levity. They are always doing studies. I try not to read too much into any one study. It will likely take many more studies and a number of years before we all know what it means. Of course just by posting the article Planet Ark will influence some people.
On a related note, I have been hearing about people that are removing all emission equipment from their diesel trucks. All the pipe past the turbo is replaced with a performance exhaust. They usually add a computer chip to bypass the emission related programming and to up the horsepower. The big complaint seems to be lower gas mileage with all the emission gear. If the problem becomes widespread we might see states doing highway spot checks.
Some of the mines might have issues with the way they clean the particulate filters (highway driving). The trucks spend their whole life driving around the mine never seeing enough highway use to clean out the filters. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable folks on diesel can clarify the issue.
... I am thinking about putting a particulate trap on an older Diesel. Of course that is easy. It's the special fueling to burn the unit off every so often that will be complicated. Any advice ???
Are you sure? What are the true costs for each system?
What I do know is it costs us $3.25 each to ride the trolley one way. I have to drive to the trolley station almost 15 miles from home for a 15 mile ride to San Diego. I am not sure we can get a true cost per passenger mile for our trolley system. I have asked as a concerned tax payer. No response. It is a nice service and if I needed to ride daily I could get a $50 per month senior pass.
Does anyone know what the cost will be to replenish the urea tank or can you just tinkle into the tank? Not that most MB owners will care -- about the cost.
On pre-particulate filter diesels, the only emissions devices I know of are a catalytic converter and an EGR valve. These items have a very minimal effect on fuel economy and the catalytic converter is rather stupid as diesel exhaust contains no unburned hydrocarbon and ever so little carbon monoxide.
The chips that increase performance increase power by adding more fuel (most) or altering the timing of how and when the fuel is delivered. Opening up the exhaust and intake systems (less restrictive), allows for more gas (air & exhaust) flow, thus more power. Reducing exhaust back pressure lowers the temperature of the exhaust gases too, thus slightly reducing the amount of NOx produced.
I have already put a less restrictive air filter in my Jeep Liberty CRD and have reduced turbo lag significantly. My next alteration will be a cat-back exhaust system. The computer chip will come later after the drive train warranty is gone. I will need to upgrade the torque converter to handle the extra torque.
As to your question about particulate filters, they are self cleaning either by electrically burning up the particulate or by burning a little bit of raw diesel fuel inside of the filter. This regenerative process is based on several factors including the amount of back pressure increase and hours driven.
Corning Announces Additional $100 Million Investment in Diesel Manufacturing Plant Company cites strong demand for its clean-diesel products for passenger cars and heavy-duty vehicles
Thes LNG/CNG buses dump nearly as much NOx into the air as diesel powered buses do. So only the perception of being cleaner is really there. Also the fuel is cheaper than diesel, but the FE is atrocious and they have no power. So where is the savings?
Indeed our local rag did a per mile driven comparison but did NOT list LNG. I am not sure why they left it out. Diesel was app $1.11 per mile and hydrogen at app $52. per mile driven.
... The long haul busses (mostly one eight hundred the hound) (Greyhound) are almost all Diesel. For your statement to be correct, it must be the exact opposite in the cities.
All the school buses I seem to get stuck behind are diesel as well. Most school districts spend all the money on administration and have little left to buy million dollar hybrid buses or expensive conversions to CNG.
I have watched the ads for a buy on a Beetle TDI with DSG. They are a bit rare in CA. I think the Beetle TDI got the DSG in 2005 and 06 before they quit selling the TDI.
Indeed I was at a GTG where one of the folks has been driving a DSG and just LOVES it!!! He is a short distance away for a test drive, but I will wander over to his place if and when I am ready to really pull the trigger on a 2009 model DSG.
Right now the goal is the same on the 2003 TDI with 103,000 miles, 400,000 more miles on the oem stock clutch. But I don't know, it is awfully tempting to put on bigger nozzles, chip, performance mapping with a 5 th gear modification for 137 hp and 236 #ft of torque. The correct first mod would be a V6 Sachs clutch and flywheel upgrade to handle 47 hp/81# ft of torque more. :shades: Right now I would be totally clueless as to what mods would be right for a DSG equipped vehicle.
Some of the mines might have issues with the way they clean the particulate filters (highway driving). The trucks spend their whole life driving around the mine never seeing enough highway use to clean out the filters. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable folks on diesel can clarify the issue.
Mining trucks are under a completely different set of rules. Dodge and Cummins offered a mine-specific Dodge Ram for that very purpose.. it was available in 2007, but no word on its 2008 fate. Cummins.com - 2007 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 Underground Mine Pickup
King UR, great comparo with the Z06 MPG in USA vs TDI MPG in Euro-land It gets even better with the better-mpg non-Z06 vette. Georgia Grice, your point about buying opportunity is nice for those with interest in owning another diesel. I wish i wanted to buy another diesel vehicle, but i sure don't. And it's unlikely to happen within a year or three if diesel is 30% more than gas. local mobil: 87 octane 3.19, diesel 4.19. :mad:
Our diesel is about the same as yours. Our gas is much more expensive. Last tank was at $3.62 per gallon. For us it is about 14% higher than regular. I would be getting at least 35% better mileage with the Mercedes GL320 than my Sequoia. Out on the highway it would best the Sequoia by more than 40%. I expect by May the price of diesel will be lower than regular gas as it usually is.
"I expect by May the price of diesel will be lower than regular gas as it usually is."
Did that happen last spring? A look at AAA shows that RUG was $2.55 one year ago while diesel was $2.75 (national averages). Are we dealing with a new paradigm?
AAA is still reporting that NY holds the lead in diesel prices at $4.28 with RUG at $3.39. I noticed there are a lot of states with prices above $4. When will it stop? My prediction of $3.99 diesel appears to be crashing and burning as we speak. Oh well....
EIA is probably Ok when it comes to keeping track of historical trends. Just don't ask them to make a prediction. They are the ones that said Mexican oil production would rise to 4 mbd -- didn't even come close. In 2006 they said production would rise even though Mexican oil production had peaked in 2004. In the 2007 report they finally made an adjustment saying that production would hold at about 3 mbd for a few years but rise to 3.5 mbd down the road. They must believe in miracles because Mexico is not likely to increase production unless they make a massive investment in exploration and forgo billions in tax revenue. Mexico will become a net importer of oil in 5 to 10 years. We can expect our diesel and RUG prices to keep climbing.
the actual diesel passenger vehicle fleet quietly and actually slipped from less than 3% passenger diesel fleet to 2%. (or less).
(see msg 5104 for link)
I was suprised to see a reference in passing that the diesel passenger fleet was (actually) @2% The connection hit me when .in an unrelated goggle, I went back to the NHSTA.gov site and for 2006 the registered passenger vehicle fleet had grown to 251.4 M vehicles (from a pass steady figure of 235.4 M= plus 16M ). In percentage terms, this is really quite a HUGE decrease in the D2 passenger vehicle fleet %. (loss if it can be so characterized ) Interesting (operatively) in terms of the system NOT being anti diesel?
So in context of so called rising D2 SUPPLY (in relationship to RUG to PUG) LESS demand translates into higher prices!!??
Yesterday we filled up with 8500 gallons of #2 dyed diesel in Tacoma, WA. While looking over the paper work I noticed a line “Sulfur PPM:” It was filled in with”< 15 PPM” I have noticed over the past 6 months that the black smoke from turbo lag was almost non existent and we have not been getting the soot and clinkers on deck when starting cold/cool engines. Lots of good things from clean diesel especially when you’re burning 16,000 to 20,000 gallons a month and this is a small boat. The maritime industry is doing it’s part.
A penny a day adds up. After watching the price of diesel in New York for the last week or two I am still amazed how it continues to rise by 1 to 2 cents a day. The folks over at the http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/contents.html seem to think diesel will average $3.45 for 2008. Wishful thinking on their part. For each month the average is $4 you will need another month where the average is less than $3. It is possible, but I would not bet the farm on prices coming down that far.
NY is at an all time average high of $4.34 for diesel. The stuff is almost a dollar more than RUG.
People with RVs and who tow boats must be getting a bit nervous with these kind of prices as summer approaches. Then there are the farmers getting ready for spring planting.
I'd be the first to wish D2 were actually cheaper than RUG/PUG. :shades: But the system does NOT want many folks to switch to D2 !!!! It operatively puts up a plethora of obstacles to resist this change. The math might be indicative.
Then there are the farmers getting ready for spring planting.
The only station around me that sells red dye diesel discounts it 10 cents under his high priced $4.18 ULSD. It has much higher sulfur content that is allowed for off-road use. I still can get ULSD from ARCO for $3.99 for my tractor. It does not blow out any soot with the BP ULSD. I only use about 5 gallons every six months in my Kubota tractor.
The spread from RUG to diesel at your corner store is a bit less than other parts of the country. A quick scan of the AAA state averages show a range of about 45 cents to a dollar.
I was not sure what you mean by the system. Diesel is just a fuel. I look at it as a potential option down the road. Over the last few years I have been evaluating that fuel/technology along with some of the other options. Right now there is really no diesel car option in my area. The closest VW dealer is about 200 miles away. I won't buy a new car unless the dealer is in town. I am also not crazy about the limited number of diesel fueling stations.
An article I read a few days ago suggested that the new Jetta diesel will be about $2,000 above the gas version. Using some numbers for the EPA fuel site I calculated that a person would save about $336 dollars per year (2003 RUG vs. Diesel). Since I drive about half as many miles as EPA has for an annual average (15,000) my savings per year would be about $170 a year. It would take me 12 years to recover the additional cost of the diesel not counting extra financing costs.
I'm probably better off snagging a Ford Fusion in the $18-$19K range. The cost per mile for the 2008 Fusion is also about $336 more than the 2003 Jetta TDI for fuel each year if you drive 15,000 miles. If we had a VW dealer in town the price of a Jetta TDI would probably be in the $22-$24K range. Of course this is just an estimate. We won't now the exact details until the 2009 cars are released.
1. when you buy diesel (or any other fuel for that matter) YOU do not buy the "spread". I listed the three so folks can put it into context. While this corner store price can indeed be "GOOD" (for around here), I have literally bought RUG/PUG/D2 @ three separate stations!!??
2. I am confused about your "confusion". You state do not know what I mean by the "system" and then you go on to systematically describe the very "system" that makes diesel options (now) less than 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet operation!? Pardon me for saying this, but you have demonstrated knowledge of EXACTLY what I am saying. :shades:
BX22 with backhoe and bucket. Great for getting in and removing dead trees and planting young ones. Those little 3 cylinder diesels do not use much fuel.
“You state do not know what I mean by the "system" and then you go on to systematically describe the very "system" that makes diesel options (now) less than 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet operation!? “
To be honest, I do not think I described the system in any detail. I just made a few comments regarding the availability of VWs in my area and one way to calculate the payback on a diesel. The system or market is really production and distribution and consumption. It would include everything and everyone (consumer, car makers, sellers, oil companies, and government).
Diesel is not really a new fuel, it has been around for 100 plus years. In the past diesel has been associated with trucks not cars. And yes we have had the occasional weird friend or uncle that owned a MB 220 diesel. Diesel has a stigma or stereotype associated with it. It will eventual overcome some of that stereotype as more people buy the vehicles. Diesel while an old product still will follow the adoption curve that all products face as it expands into mainstream autos. In Europe it took 17 years or so for diesel to go from about 12% of new cars to 53% of all new registrations. And as we all know Europe had tax laws that favored diesel fuel.
I also wanted to mention that the current high diesel prices are proof that refineries cannot easily switch from gasoline to diesel. If they could they would have done so already. Refineries will chase the money like all businesses. If you owned a refinery, would you turn your barrel of oil into X amount of gasoline which is retailing for about $3.25 or diesel which is $4 a gallon?
If you owned a refinery, would you turn your barrel of oil into X amount of gasoline which is retailing for about $3.25 or diesel which is $4 a gallon?
That would be the logical thing to do. If memory serves me correctly. After Katrina a couple refineries were switched from diesel to gasoline production. I wonder if the refineries that were damaged by Katrina were ever brought back on line. I think it has mainly been a case of longer colder winter with a higher demand on heating oil. Plus the refineries are cutting production to just what is needed. Everything I read says refining is not the best way to make money. The money is made on crude oil. Of course they need to refine it to get paid for the crude oil. Kind of like paying the grocer for food rather than buying direct from the farmer. I expect regular and diesel to be comparable by May. Just in time for summer travel in a new diesel car. Oh I forgot, they are not selling many diesels in the USA. I can always dream about driving cross country in my Sequoia with a diesel engine getting 30 MPG instead of 16 MPG.
What I found interesting and disturbing about the article was really the comments people added – almost 100. The comments seem to run the gamut from thoughtful to just plain bizarre. I did find it strange how people tried to blame the author for an incomplete analysis while providing an incomplete analysis or comment of their own. One person said “And the American Lung Association does not like car engines either.” The ALA is a dedicated group of people trying to help others with serious issues like asthma. They are rightfully concerned with what comes out the tail pipe. The person should spend a few days in a hospital caring for a child with asthma or a serious lung problem. :mad:
..."One person said “And the American Lung Association does not like car engines either.” The ALA is a dedicated group of people trying to help others with serious issues like asthma. They are rightfully concerned with what comes out the tail pipe. The person should spend a few days in a hospital caring for a child with asthma or a serious lung problem. "...
It might bear mentioning that folks can suffer asthma, allergies, etc. etc just by being exposed to the natural world. So for example, spring while absolutely wonderful to my perception, can literally be hell on earth for some. What would be the proposal, cancelling plant sex? The analogous environmental proposal is NO ICE's.
..."I was not sure what you mean by the system. Diesel is just a fuel. I look at it as a potential option down the road. Over the last few years I have been evaluating that fuel/technology along with some of the other options. Right now there is really no diesel car option in my area. The closest VW dealer is about 200 miles away. I won't buy a new car unless the dealer is in town. I am also not crazy about the limited number of diesel fueling stations. "...
Again your quote is another example of how the system narcotizes folks to in effect dial out alternative fuels. In effect they really do not want folks (you in your area) to have diesel options.
So for example on the face of it I would agree diesel IS JUST a fuel. The more they muck with and make more sophisticated the NEW diesel options, the more you are put on the "straight and narrow" to only burn petro D2. However if you look at alternatives, it would be difficult to come to the conclusion there is a real problem that is really only the systematical cut off of alternatives!! What does this mean? Got a fast food place that uses fryer oil? Do you think they will invent fryer oil that will last forever?. Used fryer oil has to be handled IAW strict EPA standards. However, used fryer oil can be turned to #2 diesel!!? aka BIO DIESEL? Bio diesel has very low to NO sulfur content!!? Sulfur is course is public enemy #1 !!?? So low to no sulfur is GREAT right!? Yet % wise not much is used in place of sulfured products like RUG to PUG @ 30 ppm.???? I have spoken of D2 making from algae from hmmmm "waste" processing facilities? Do you think we will ever stop hmmmmmmm daily elimination? It goes on and on and on. I live in a so called "urban" area. Right in the heart of Silicon Valley there are shops that will do a WVO conversion, among many other things alternative fuels.
Comments
Not exactly a factory Wrangler Diesel, but close.
The Jeep (off road) parts logistical system is one of the BEST!! A real good way to sell crate engines and gauge product demand.
OK, I wasn't going to post this, but since you mentioned the idea of thinning out the herd, here goes.
Diesel Fumes Can Affect Your Brain, Scientists Say
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/47430/newsDate/11-Mar-2008/st- ory.htm
"It is conceivable that the long-term effects of exposure to traffic nanoparticles may interfere with normal brain function and information processing."
This may help explain some of the posts in this forum.
Traffic nanoparticles -- that must be the politically correct term for diesel soot.
and......
WAS because...........????
Yep. That's what happens when you ride buses for too long.
The bad news is that the high diesel prices will take a bit to work their way through the economy (transportation charges, people deferring the cost by buying fuel on credit cards). There is a whole lot of ugly going on out there... :sick:
The price difference between RUG and diesel is about 85 cents or 25% in NY. Until the price differential decreases diesel cars are not going to make much headway. You would think that at some point the difference between RUG and diesel would go down as refineries switch their process. At least I assume refineries will be producing more diesel in the future. Anyone know of a local refinery that plans to make the switch or increase diesel production?
I am glad that our family does not need to buy a vehicle right now or in the near future. What will be the best option - RUG, diesel, hybrid, plug-in, E85 or ?? -- sort of like the Fog of War.
“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” General George S. Patton Jr.
Are you sure? What are the true costs for each system? There are a lot of hidden taxes and the like. Would we need car insurance or the DMV if there were no cars? Think about the massive infrastructure we have to support cars. The true cost for your Sequoia is 70 cents a mile or more. After adding in all the other hidden costs the mass transit system is probably cheaper.
From Edmund's True Cost to Own
True Cost to Own* $52,509 view details
Total Cash Price $35,435 view details
Average Cost per Mile* $0.70 compare similar vehicles
In Europe, the vast majority of diesels do not have particulate filters and will not be required to have them for a few more years.
On a related note, I have been hearing about people that are removing all emission equipment from their diesel trucks. All the pipe past the turbo is replaced with a performance exhaust. They usually add a computer chip to bypass the emission related programming and to up the horsepower. The big complaint seems to be lower gas mileage with all the emission gear. If the problem becomes widespread we might see states doing highway spot checks.
Some of the mines might have issues with the way they clean the particulate filters (highway driving). The trucks spend their whole life driving around the mine never seeing enough highway use to clean out the filters. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable folks on diesel can clarify the issue.
What I do know is it costs us $3.25 each to ride the trolley one way. I have to drive to the trolley station almost 15 miles from home for a 15 mile ride to San Diego. I am not sure we can get a true cost per passenger mile for our trolley system. I have asked as a concerned tax payer. No response. It is a nice service and if I needed to ride daily I could get a $50 per month senior pass.
said that "Called AdBlue, it is a solution of 2/3 water and 1/3 urea.." At what point does the mixture freeze? I am guessing they must have a heater to prevent freezing.
Does anyone know what the cost will be to replenish the urea tank or can you just tinkle into the tank?
The chips that increase performance increase power by adding more fuel (most) or altering the timing of how and when the fuel is delivered. Opening up the exhaust and intake systems (less restrictive), allows for more gas (air & exhaust) flow, thus more power. Reducing exhaust back pressure lowers the temperature of the exhaust gases too, thus slightly reducing the amount of NOx produced.
I have already put a less restrictive air filter in my Jeep Liberty CRD and have reduced turbo lag significantly. My next alteration will be a cat-back exhaust system. The computer chip will come later after the drive train warranty is gone. I will need to upgrade the torque converter to handle the extra torque.
As to your question about particulate filters, they are self cleaning either by electrically burning up the particulate or by burning a little bit of raw diesel fuel inside of the filter. This regenerative process is based on several factors including the amount of back pressure increase and hours driven.
Corning Announces Additional $100 Million Investment in Diesel Manufacturing Plant
Company cites strong demand for its clean-diesel products for passenger cars and heavy-duty vehicles
link title
The pull down menu on products and applications might yield other diesel filtration related articles.
First Drive: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI. Click image to enlarge
Review and photos by Greg Wilson
Discuss this story in the forum at CarTalkCanada
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2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
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I think I would be inclined to the DSG 1 st, as the significant other does like to shift (in traffic) anymore, and a 6 speed manual 2 nd.
Right now the goal is the same on the 2003 TDI with 103,000 miles, 400,000 more miles on the oem stock clutch.
Mining trucks are under a completely different set of rules. Dodge and Cummins offered a mine-specific Dodge Ram for that very purpose.. it was available in 2007, but no word on its 2008 fate.
Cummins.com - 2007 Dodge Ram 2500/3500 Underground Mine Pickup
kcram - Pickups Host
Georgia Grice, your point about buying opportunity is nice for those with interest in owning another diesel. I wish i wanted to buy another diesel vehicle, but i sure don't. And it's unlikely to happen within a year or three if diesel is 30% more than gas. local mobil: 87 octane 3.19, diesel 4.19. :mad:
Did that happen last spring? A look at AAA shows that RUG was $2.55 one year ago while diesel was $2.75 (national averages). Are we dealing with a new paradigm?
AAA is still reporting that NY holds the lead in diesel prices at $4.28 with RUG at $3.39. I noticed there are a lot of states with prices above $4. When will it stop? My prediction of $3.99 diesel appears to be crashing and burning as we speak. Oh well....
Maybe the Easter Bunny will fix things.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
Personally, I purchase Diesel at Flying J any time my travel takes me within 50 miles of one.
EIA is probably Ok when it comes to keeping track of historical trends. Just don't ask them to make a prediction. They are the ones that said Mexican oil production would rise to 4 mbd -- didn't even come close. In 2006 they said production would rise even though Mexican oil production had peaked in 2004. In the 2007 report they finally made an adjustment saying that production would hold at about 3 mbd for a few years but rise to 3.5 mbd down the road. They must believe in miracles because Mexico is not likely to increase production unless they make a massive investment in exploration and forgo billions in tax revenue. Mexico will become a net importer of oil in 5 to 10 years. We can expect our diesel and RUG prices to keep climbing.
(see msg 5104 for link)
I was suprised to see a reference in passing that the diesel passenger fleet was (actually) @2% The connection hit me when .in an unrelated goggle, I went back to the NHSTA.gov site and for 2006 the registered passenger vehicle fleet had grown to 251.4 M vehicles (from a pass steady figure of 235.4 M= plus 16M ). In percentage terms, this is really quite a HUGE decrease in the D2 passenger vehicle fleet %. (loss if it can be so characterized ) Interesting (operatively) in terms of the system NOT being anti diesel?
So in context of so called rising D2 SUPPLY (in relationship to RUG to PUG) LESS demand translates into higher prices!!??
I have noticed over the past 6 months that the black smoke from turbo lag was almost non existent and we have not been getting the soot and clinkers on deck when starting cold/cool engines.
Lots of good things from clean diesel especially when you’re burning 16,000 to 20,000 gallons a month and this is a small boat.
The maritime industry is doing it’s part.
While I do not track marine D2 conversion issues, less than 15 ppm is better than marine RUG to PUG @ 30 ppm to Leaded RG to PG.
I had read in passing D2 dyed was going to be 500 ppm MAX. Evidently it makes sense to standardize @ less than 15 ppm.
For most folks that do not know this is reall good as marine and aviation do NOT use emissions controls. (catalytic converters, egr, etc)
NY is at an all time average high of $4.34 for diesel. The stuff is almost a dollar more than RUG.
People with RVs and who tow boats must be getting a bit nervous with these kind of prices as summer approaches. Then there are the farmers getting ready for spring planting.
Jetta 2.0 29 mpg/3.61= .124 cents
1.8T 29 mpg/3.81=.1314 cents
TDI 49 mpg/4.05=.0827 cents per mile driven.
I'd be the first to wish D2 were actually cheaper than RUG/PUG.
The only station around me that sells red dye diesel discounts it 10 cents under his high priced $4.18 ULSD. It has much higher sulfur content that is allowed for off-road use. I still can get ULSD from ARCO for $3.99 for my tractor. It does not blow out any soot with the BP ULSD. I only use about 5 gallons every six months in my Kubota tractor.
Growing number of automakers will bring the technology to market
I was not sure what you mean by the system. Diesel is just a fuel. I look at it as a potential option down the road. Over the last few years I have been evaluating that fuel/technology along with some of the other options. Right now there is really no diesel car option in my area. The closest VW dealer is about 200 miles away. I won't buy a new car unless the dealer is in town. I am also not crazy about the limited number of diesel fueling stations.
An article I read a few days ago suggested that the new Jetta diesel will be about $2,000 above the gas version. Using some numbers for the EPA fuel site I calculated that a person would save about $336 dollars per year (2003 RUG vs. Diesel). Since I drive about half as many miles as EPA has for an annual average (15,000) my savings per year would be about $170 a year. It would take me 12 years to recover the additional cost of the diesel not counting extra financing costs.
I'm probably better off snagging a Ford Fusion in the $18-$19K range. The cost per mile for the 2008 Fusion is also about $336 more than the 2003 Jetta TDI for fuel each year if you drive 15,000 miles. If we had a VW dealer in town the price of a Jetta TDI would probably be in the $22-$24K range. Of course this is just an estimate. We won't now the exact details until the 2009 cars are released.
1. when you buy diesel (or any other fuel for that matter) YOU do not buy the "spread". I listed the three so folks can put it into context. While this corner store price can indeed be "GOOD" (for around here), I have literally bought RUG/PUG/D2 @ three separate stations!!??
2. I am confused about your "confusion". You state do not know what I mean by the "system" and then you go on to systematically describe the very "system" that makes diesel options (now) less than 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet operation!? Pardon me for saying this, but you have demonstrated knowledge of EXACTLY what I am saying. :shades:
BX22 with backhoe and bucket. Great for getting in and removing dead trees and planting young ones. Those little 3 cylinder diesels do not use much fuel.
To be honest, I do not think I described the system in any detail. I just made a few comments regarding the availability of VWs in my area and one way to calculate the payback on a diesel. The system or market is really production and distribution and consumption. It would include everything and everyone (consumer, car makers, sellers, oil companies, and government).
Diesel is not really a new fuel, it has been around for 100 plus years. In the past diesel has been associated with trucks not cars. And yes we have had the occasional weird friend or uncle that owned a MB 220 diesel.
I also wanted to mention that the current high diesel prices are proof that refineries cannot easily switch from gasoline to diesel. If they could they would have done so already. Refineries will chase the money like all businesses. If you owned a refinery, would you turn your barrel of oil into X amount of gasoline which is retailing for about $3.25 or diesel which is $4 a gallon?
That would be the logical thing to do. If memory serves me correctly. After Katrina a couple refineries were switched from diesel to gasoline production. I wonder if the refineries that were damaged by Katrina were ever brought back on line. I think it has mainly been a case of longer colder winter with a higher demand on heating oil. Plus the refineries are cutting production to just what is needed. Everything I read says refining is not the best way to make money. The money is made on crude oil. Of course they need to refine it to get paid for the crude oil. Kind of like paying the grocer for food rather than buying direct from the farmer. I expect regular and diesel to be comparable by May. Just in time for summer travel in a new diesel car. Oh I forgot, they are not selling many diesels in the USA. I can always dream about driving cross country in my Sequoia with a diesel engine getting 30 MPG instead of 16 MPG.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/another-side-of-the-clean-diesel-stor- y/index.html?hp&scp=1-b&sq=diesel&st=nyt
What I found interesting and disturbing about the article was really the comments people added – almost 100. The comments seem to run the gamut from thoughtful to just plain bizarre. I did find it strange how people tried to blame the author for an incomplete analysis while providing an incomplete analysis or comment of their own. One person said “And the American Lung Association does not like car engines either.” The ALA is a dedicated group of people trying to help others with serious issues like asthma. They are rightfully concerned with what comes out the tail pipe. The person should spend a few days in a hospital caring for a child with asthma or a serious lung problem. :mad:
It might bear mentioning that folks can suffer asthma, allergies, etc. etc just by being exposed to the natural world. So for example, spring while absolutely wonderful to my perception, can literally be hell on earth for some. What would be the proposal, cancelling plant sex? The analogous environmental proposal is NO ICE's.
By JAMES MacPHERSON, Associated Press Writer
Sat Mar 22, 12:50 PM ET
BISMARCK, N.D.
link title
Again your quote is another example of how the system narcotizes folks to in effect dial out alternative fuels. In effect they really do not want folks (you in your area) to have diesel options.
So for example on the face of it I would agree diesel IS JUST a fuel. The more they muck with and make more sophisticated the NEW diesel options, the more you are put on the "straight and narrow" to only burn petro D2. However if you look at alternatives, it would be difficult to come to the conclusion there is a real problem that is really only the systematical cut off of alternatives!! What does this mean? Got a fast food place that uses fryer oil? Do you think they will invent fryer oil that will last forever?. Used fryer oil has to be handled IAW strict EPA standards. However, used fryer oil can be turned to #2 diesel!!? aka BIO DIESEL? Bio diesel has very low to NO sulfur content!!? Sulfur is course is public enemy #1 !!?? So low to no sulfur is GREAT right!? Yet % wise not much is used in place of sulfured products like RUG to PUG @ 30 ppm.???? I have spoken of D2 making from algae from hmmmm "waste" processing facilities? Do you think we will ever stop hmmmmmmm daily elimination? It goes on and on and on. I live in a so called "urban" area. Right in the heart of Silicon Valley there are shops that will do a WVO conversion, among many other things alternative fuels.