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And you know eating your hat is beyond hyperbole !!! Even you know that according to the EPA the so called "bio" diesels etc meet the defintion of alternative fuels.
Biodiesel
Veggie Oil diesel
THOSE are alternative fuels.
Straight out of the Citgo pump, standard refined diesel is NOT.
In fact B (whatevers)diesel fuels are a mix of diesel fuels and can be burnt rather seamlessly in diesel engines.
YOU can not do that with unleaded regular. "Oxygenated" fuels to me are almost a total rip off.
John
The company expects delivery of the cars to start by the end of October.
DaimlerChrysler stopped selling diesel passenger cars in Japan in 1997, but it believes the advanced fuel efficiency and environmentally friendly features of the CDI engine will make the Avantgarde a success, the paper said.
Hans Tempel, president and chief executive at DaimlerChrysler Japan Holding Ltd, was quoted as saying that demand for diesel engines will rise in the long term because they give better fuel mileage and emit less carbon dioxide than do gasoline engines.
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2006/08/28/afx2978574.html
August 23, 2006Missoula, Montana -- Environment, government and business representatives gathered in Missoula today to support a clean diesel retrofit donation that will use cutting-edge technology to vastly reduce emissions from existing diesel vehicles and help clean Montana’s air.
Senator Conrad Burns provided keynote remarks at the luncheon, where Caterpillar Inc.’s donation of retrofit technology for 14 Mountain Line transit buses was announced.
“Clean diesel retrofit technology can help improve Montana's environmental and air quality,” Burns said.
And no "passenger car TDIs" will be retrofitted with clean diesel technology.
Glad to know the buses are getting the treatment however.
If you plant to improve the world there are a few higher priorities out there than diesel exhause fumes..
There is no denying the benefit of clean diesel combined with particulate filters.
I want the first 70+ MPG diesel/electric hybrid 5-passenger car.
If you plan to improve the world there are a few higher priorities out there than diesel exhaust fumes..
that's funny - tell that to the kids and the elderly in California's central valley
I didn't realize we can only work on one priority at a time.
Frankly, I don't care what fuel you burn in your car. That is your business. I only care what is in the air that comes into my lungs. That is my business. Burn whatever you want, just don't put any of it into my air, eh? That seems fair.
Oh, you want a free lunch? I get it, now.
Alright, I was semi-reading your stuff, but since I am in Fresno, and I know that diesel is not a major part of the problem here, you have just lost your credibility.
Please, this is a forum for intelligent dialogue, let's not go spreading rumors.
John
Have you considered moving to Canada?
the diesel sure ain't helping
I'd be happy to review any pollution data that you have for Fresno that shows that diesel poses no risk to the residents of the area
This is probably a reasonable place to start - CARB study finalized in May 2006. I haven't read the report. If it says that diesel isn't a problem in Fresno, I will withdraw my comments.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/ch/communities/studies/fresno/fresnosb25reportfinal.pdf#se- arch=%22fresno%20air%20pollution%20diesel%22
Have you considered moving to Canada?
what the heck does that mean?
do you need to be reported to a moderator?
if you can't stick to the issues, then please move on to another forum
are you trying to infer that in America each of us gets to pollute as much as we please, but that in Canada we can't? I don't get your comment, unles it was intended to be an insult
I didn't see any NEWS stories posted about hazardous diesel pollution in the CA central valley. I must have missed that one.
is this YOUR fight?
the NEWS is the availability of ULSD, which you know about
There are news stories every day about diesel pollution in the Central Valley
interesting that you want to suppress this line of discussion
Environment: 'Clean' Mercedes Diesel too Dirty for Five US States
31 Aug 06 13:17
Bluetec: not green enough
Mercedes-Benz's much trumpeted E320 Bluetec diesel has failed to meet the emissions standards required for sale in green-minded California and four other states in the USA. Mercedes had hoped that Bluetec technology would establish the brand as a maker of clean, low-emissions diesels as the US market slowly turns towards higher-economy vehicles, but potential buyers in wealthy Maine, Massachusetts, New York and Vermont, as well as highly pollution-conscious California, won't be able to buy that version of the E-Class.
The Bluetec system includes injection of the AdBlue fluid, an aqueous urea solution, into the exhaust tract; this reduces nitrogen oxide emissions to hydrogen and water. In combination with an exhaust gas catalyst, a particulate filter, the latest common-rail piezo-injection technology and low-sulphur diesel fuel, the system is claimed to make the E320 CDI 'the cleanest diesel vehicle in the world', according to Mercedes. However, the testing authorities have clearly decided that it is not quite clean enough.
And the REALLY BAD part:
It could also delay development of the hybrid diesel-electric powertrains which Mercedes is currently working on.
You know that's the vehicle I want - a 5-passenger "clean diesel/electric hybrid" capable of 70+ MPG and an EPA Air Pollution score of 9 or 9.5
even I am waiting for clean diesels
please don't make me buy a Camry Hybrid.......
Seems kinda odd.
Anyway, MB will redesign that part of the system, or get around that with technology we can hope.
Seat-mounted catheter?
This is very interesting! Do you have references for this?
There are many new gas cars & SUVs that are polluting as much or more than a new VW TDI. If you look back 2-3 years cars from every maker had cars rated "one" or even zero. It is purely political in CA. One person at CARB wielded a big stick and the whole country is affected. Most manufacturers are not going through the EPA hoops if they know they cannot sell cars in CA.
Not all at CARB are blind to the facts. It is politics that have blocked the diesel cars not science.
Detroit -- New cars with diesel particle filters (DPF) can meet or beat new gasoline cars on particulate matter (PM) emissions, California Air Resources Board (CARB) deputy executive director Tom Cackette told the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAB) World Congress here.
Speaking at a panel discussion on whether future diesel cars can survive and thrive in the U.S. despite extremely tough U.S. EPA/GARB emissions regulations, Cackette pointed out that the new PSA/Peugeot cars in Europe equipped with DPFs produce about one-fourth the PM emissions of advanced gasoline cars in the U.S.
These PSA cars emit about 0.5 milligrams/mile of PM, versus about 2 mg/mile PM from advanced gasoline cars, he said.
That means this PSA diesel car is four times cleaner than gasoline cars on PM emissions. If such diesel cars could meet all CARB emissions standards for LEV-2 - and stay very close to gasoline on ultra-low PM -- then diesels likely could become environmentally acceptable even in super-strict California.
They never have gotten over the fact that they lost the Rose bowl.
According to Gulfstream fact sheet. The Gulfstream dumps 311.1 lbs of NoX in one flight. Let's say they flew the maximum range of 5504 miles. That is 25.4 grams per mile of NoX. The VW TDI puts out a maximum of .052 GM/mile. That means the Hollywood star flying his Gulfstream puts out 488 times more NoX per mile than Ruking in his Jetta TDI. Multiply that times the rows of Gulfstream aircraft at all the airports in the LA Basin. Oh, and Gulfstream is one of the cleanest jets in the world. So # 1 diesel which is the fuel used in all those private jets is not banned in CA. Only cars for the little people that want to use less fossil fuel and save a few bucks at the pump.
Emissions: taxi,t/o climb cruise descent app,taxi total
(lb.NOx) 4.9 34.3 269.5 0.9 1.5 311.0
(lb.HC) 0.23 0.07 3.36 0.38 0.13 4.18
(lb.CO) 6.7 4.0 260.0 9.5 3.8 284.1
Let's not get goofy here, OK?
Most commerical airliners and NASCAR still use leaded fuel.
There are tons of areas which need addressing, but the point is that anyone who choses a low-polluting car is DOING THEIR PART, no matter how small it is.
Indeed if one stops all unmitigated emissions such as air flights and sea travel, the environment will benefit immensely. Indeed there are scientific community segments that have gone on record indicating that (even if we could wave the magic wand and totally shut off "harmful" emissions) doing so would have literally no long term effect on the so called downward spiral. Also this issue is NOT a good case for the globalization policy. So if we apply Larsh's thought of stopping all air travel and sea travel (due to emissions issues) until they can scientifically test and solve the issues. We would have succeeded in moving the world into global bankruptcy with the associated consequences.
I proposed that Gary must want private jets to be grounded, since he was complaining about Hollywood stars taking private flights.
States can only control certain things. What they can easily control is which cars get registered in the state. If they can stop dirty diesel registrations as a part of a clean air plan, that's an easy thing to do. Thus is why the five clean air states have banned dirty diesel cars as new for sale.
There is work to do in every area. Until a flaming liberal tree hugger attains the White House, nothing major will
happen, because life as we know it must go on.
PS Kudos to California for passing the Green Air act this week. Way to GO GOVERNATOR !!!!
And that is the key behind all liberal touchy feely regulations: not what is truly effective, but what is easy to do, whether it accomplishes much or not. Let's all sing kumbaya.
So let me use an off topic analogy to focus awareness. It is a bit like watching the water flow of Niagra Falls and getting all wigged out when someone doesn't fix a water drip due to say a worn washer in a household.
More on topic the regulatory agencies took the position that the "new ULTRA low sulfur" fuel would save xxxx lifes.(CA has been using LOW SULFUR fuel for a long time. Now of course this sounds PC and is a real no brainer. But if it is true why didn't they TAKE that position in the 1970's when they made the decision to switch to unleaded regular from leaded regular???? so xxxx saved per year times 30-40 years is a whole lot of lives that were NOT saved if their projections are true. Simply mind boggling!!
What would YOU DO if you were the Governator for a week?
Unfortunate the cleanest diesel cars and light trucks ever are not sold in CA.
Practical procedures indicates it takes several full (dealer) tank "purges" to see their stores get down to 15 ppm. So indeed there was/is probably a "GRACE" period in the process of cycling through and out from the 140 ppm LOW SULFUR diesel to what will be known as USLD.
You are saying ground the airplanes and diesel cars. I did not suggest any kind of ban. Just a reality check on what is and isn't serious pollution. And by the way. Jet airliners burn # 1 diesel/kerosene/JetA. Same exact fuel that we ran in our diesel trucks year round in the Arctic.
I am pointing out to the suckers that fell for the Hollywood hybrid rhetoric, just how phony they are. Your reasoning that they are rich people is hilarious. Does that give them the right to pollute? The truth is it is easier as you have said to crap on the little guy that just wants a vehicle that will get decent mileage. Don't step on any BIG Toes or you may find yourself out of office.
I would not buy a Toyota hybrid for the very reason it is the "IN" thing in Hollywood. Toyota pulled off a beautiful scam on the car buying public with the Prius giveaways in tinsel town. The ONLY way I would EVER buy a Toyota is if they bring a small diesel to our shores.
Let's move this to the Prius forum. MEET YA THERE....
so, if GM made a hybrid, that performed exactly as the Prius, and no Hollywood types were champpioning it, would you buy it??
speaking of hybrids too, i've recently been cross-shopping a saturn vue hybrid vs one of the just-arriving-at-dealers special edition 06 jetta VW TDI. TDI wins. a dealbreaker for VUE is that it has no yaw/rollover control.
also you seem to be misinformed about VW not selling TDIs "right now". there are dealers with both beetle TDIs and jetta 'special edition' TDIs during september & october and maybe beyond, until they sell out.
gagrice, gulfstream shmulfstream! look up the stats on the 707 - i think that is what Travolta flies that wild commercial-pilot man!
I would rather have a 1/2 ton PU with a small diesel.
that is so lame
I agree that there are times that the messenger is more important than the message, but I prefer to make up my own mind on the message, first, rather than just ignore a good idea because of who is telling me about it
but back to our topic, what do you think the earliest prospect is for new diesels in California? Is last week's CARB failure by DC a major setback, or just a bump in the road? Do you think California's prospective Global Warming legislation will help promote diesels? I think there is a provision in it along the lines of "if California's air laws re emissions are overturned, that the state is to eneact regulations aimed at global warming." I see that as a huge window for diesels, but I don't know if California has a chance of winning the pending emissions lawsuit.
Diesels in CA is a crap shoot. Anyone that lives here know that we have a legislature and state government that cannot make a decent decision. What that means for the citizens is higher taxes and more regulation. About the only freedom left in CA is being able to say I don't like the direction CARB has taken on diesel cars. If you look at the Hollywood influence in some of the latest legislation (the Meathead bill) you will understand my detesting anything that comes out of tinsel town. San Diego county rarely votes with the rest of the state.
that is so lame "
I think you would be WAY off point, IF after reading some of Gagrice's past posts, you came to the above quoted conclusion. So I can only reasonably conclude that either you are not familar with some of the things he said in past posts, or are using the above quote as a sort of hypergolic (chemical) flash point of departture for discussion.
As byzantine as the policies toward diesel/s are in CA, (BUT follow the money (fees generated ) registration of so called used diesels (>than 7,500 miles) is actually just as easy to easier than like gasser vehicles.
I might add, you are not subject to the ignorance of the emissions tests, that have proven to be of little value. They are just another way to squeeze money from the citizens. What good are emissions tests when you are exempt if you cannot afford to fix your smog belching car? It is just an extra expense for those of us who maintain their cars properly.
This is particularly unjust in that the FED and of course the state have specific regulations forcing oems to guarantee emissions for later model vehicles for up to 10 years. Of course this is for the 50 state types to the Ca and the other 49 state categories. So in theory and practice, you are paying for redundant, unneeded smog checks by virtual of the requirement for emissions guarantee.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/07/cummins_to_prod.html#more
"so the only reason you won't buy a Prius is because Hollywood folks are championing it?
that is so lame "
I think you would be WAY off point, IF after reading some of Gagrice's past posts, you came to the above quoted conclusion.
well, maybe you should have read his most recent post where he said what I repeated, but used different words
I wasn't trying to be hyperbolic. I was trying to clarify his absurd position.
Not liking the Prius is fine. It's a free country. But not liking the Prius because Hollywood likes it and ONLY because Hollywood likes it is juvenile.
If Mel Gibson says he believes in gravity, do we all have to start questioning gravity? Of course not.