I think it is safe to assume all "final" decisions about upcoming product offerings are suspect. All the domestics and even Toyota are scrambling to change their mix. When Bob Lutz is talking about putting a turbo 4 in Buicks and the Camaro, (where a diesel would work so much better) hell has probably already frozen over.
80 series Toyota Land Cruiser US I get 12mpg - same truck in Tanzania runing an old school turbo diesel gets 24mpg US.
The full size trucks will never get 30mpg US but they can see a big bump in Milege with diesel use.
Though till now fuel consumption hasn't been a big deal so consumers bought the cheaper gas version over the diesel version in the lighter duty trucks.
What it really comes down to is US consumers buying diesel cars other wise they won't build them. VW is a poor diesel example as VW has a reputation and no matter what sort of car they offer only a certain percentage of shoppers will consider them. I've owned VW's and own a recent one now "it went to the shop today" again.. I won't own another VW the rest of my life.
Indeed I think the whole weight issue of the SUV segments (of which TLC's belong 80's app @ 4800#) given forward esculating fuel cost situations, might be revisited. When you combine that with good diesel engines and killer transmissions, I think the mpg will improve. The alternative is "DIE."
I think the Liberty/Cherokee CRD (@30-31 mpg) might be the standard bearer going forward!!
"When Bob Lutz is talking about putting a turbo 4 in Buicks and the Camaro, (where a diesel would work so much better) hell has probably already frozen over."
This might be totally off topic but Buicks and Camaros have gotten bad raps. (gasser) Buick has been ( literally for decades) one of the BEST GM brands: in terms of reliability, durability, etc. They might not be the pc correct demographic, but in the forementioned terms, it would be a severe mistake to AXE this brand. Both would benefit from V4-V8 turbo diesels (other configurations also).
But people like their V-8 engines for torque, and a 6 cyl diesel would replicate what Buick and Camaro drivers are looking for a lot more closely than a turbo 4, with the same or better resulting fuel economy.
... Wife's '06, Liberty, V~6, gasser is lucky to get 20 MPG now that it's broke-in. Kind of a shock as her previous GrandAm, 4 cyl Ecotec would get 28 on the same trips. Of course the Liberty is pushing a lot of air out of place; however pretty good room considering the outside dimensions.
I propose we change the name of the forum to "Dimethyl Ether in the News". China plans to use it in place of diesel, I'm sure everyone else will follow.
DME has a higher cetane number and looks to be a clean burning fuel. Mix it with some LPG and it works in petrol engines too. DME can be created from coal, natural gas or biomass.
'Global oil demand is expected to increase to 94.14 million bpd in 2013 from an estimated 86.87 million bpd this year and will be heavily biased to middle distillates, such as diesel, heating oil and jet fuel, the IEA said.....Europe is already importing such fuels in large volumes and North American distillate supplies are likely to fall short of demand growth in a short term, IEA said." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080701.wrefineries0701/BNSt- ory/Business
If the IEA is correct diesel prices would stay at current levels or increase but not drop. I'm not sure the IEA has all the facts they need to make the call. I suspect there are a lot of internal plans by refineries to increase diesel production that the IEA is not aware of. Still, it makes a person wonder if it isn't best to hold off switching to a diesel until things become more clear.
As time goes on the percentage of diesels in the European fleet continue to increase. For every 100 cars sold in Europe, about 55 are diesel. It is likely they are replacing 15+ year old cars, 90% of which are gassers. This will continue to increase demand for diesel and keep prices high.
Still, it makes a person wonder if it isn't best to hold off switching to a diesel until things become more clear.
Where is your gambling spirit man? I bought the 05 Passat TDI in April of 2005 when diesel in Oregon was about 30 cents more than regular. A year later in May of 06 gas was over $3 and diesel was $2.49. I made $3,000 over what I bought the car new for. If diesel holds at these prices a person should get a good buy on a diesel vehicle. Then when the price rolls over you laugh all the way to the bank. If not it will still be a superior vehicle to anything with a gas engine. Win Win!!
That and the simple fact is ethanol will NEVER replace gas. There are at least 4 good shots at distillate replacements in the not too distant future. Life is a gamble.
Its a real shame that GM managers didn't "SELL" the Buick Park Ave as a quality car that ALSO gets good fuel mileage. We had a 1993 and now have a 2002 and both have gotten over 30 mpg on the road and 31 or 32 many times. Even in the mtns of WNC I get 26 mpg around town. He number of innovative features on the 02 are amazing and no one knows about them. Heck it even has a heads up display for the mileage.
We put on 145K miles on our 93 and never had a lick of serious mechanical trouble.
They quit making them in 04 so we went out last summer and bought another used one to bridge the gap until someone builds a quality car with good mileage in the USA..
If you look around a low mileage Park Ave is in your neighborhood.
I was all set to make the switch to diesel until the past 12 months or so but a price differential of $0.91 a gallon has killed it for me. My 06 Chevy diesel PU sits in the drive and I make monthly payments on it... OUCH. sure is a nice truck though.
no commute costs @ CLUB FED PEN..... oh the benes!!!
Drivers of vegetable-oil vehicles in a legal pickle EFFORT TO GO GREEN VIOLATES FEDERAL ENVIRONMENT LAWS By Tom Pelton The Baltimore Sun Article Launched: 07/02/2008 01:35:39 AM PDT
Actually, no, it's not ENTIRELY ALL ABOUT THE MONEY at all. It's also about air quality and meeting established laws and regulations.
See the bolded parts below to see my point being made.
But these motorists are running afoul of federal and state government agencies whose jobs are to collect taxes from drivers to pay for road maintenance and make sure that fuels don't pollute the air.
Maryland drivers face a $1,000 fine for driving on vegetable fuel if they don't register first with the state and file monthly reports and payments, according to Chuck Ulm, assistant director of motor vehicle taxes in the state comptroller's office.
A spokesman for Comptroller Peter Franchot said Franchot generally supports the use of alternative fuels as a way to help end the nation's dependence on foreign oil and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
But, said spokesman Warren Hansen, "At this point, the legislature has not changed the way this fuel is taxed or regulated, so we are just enforcing the laws that are currently on the books."
But a tax credit in Maryland would have little effect if driving while green is illegal at the federal level. Catherine C. Milbourn, spokeswoman for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, said federal laws prohibit running vehicles on used vegetable oil.
"All fuels have to be tested before they can be used in a vehicle, because when something goes into the engine and is burned up, something comes out of the tailpipe. And we want to make sure it doesn't harm the environment in any way," Milbourn said. "Vegetable fuel has not been registered as a motor vehicle fuel."
Now, here's what I think SHOULD happen:
1. The EPA should fully test veggie oil fuel and get it "registered as a motor vehicle fuel" so people can use it. 2. The law needs to change to allow it's use. 3. The tax collection process should change to allow veggie oil burners to easily pay thie fair share of fuel taxes and make it EASY on the vehicle owner to pay those taxes.
You crack me up. It will only happen when hell freezes over. It took the EPA 30+ years to get the sulfur out of diesel fuel. Now you want them to figure out how to tax a gallon of cooking oil from McDonald's. I say break the law and don't tell everyone you are beating the STINKING system in this country. If you have any evidence that used cooking oil is more polluting than D2 I would love to see it. It is just another case of BIG BROTHERISM. If you think the screaming from those that are trying to save on fossil fuel is loud now. Wait until an EV gets offered in this country. I don't think the EPA and the NHTSA will let them be sold. Canada has already blocked the sale of the EV being built in Toronto. How do you tax an EV? Until they figure out how to tax by the mile it will be tough getting any kind of alternatives legalized.
This is really a series of IF's, but a no brainer would be a (GM product) Buick TDI, If GM could use/develop/vend a good turbo diesel engine, IF 20-40 % better mpg (could be MATED/ engineered) if, if, if, THEN a to 38 to 45 mpg Buick TDI would literally be a stormer. The additional killer application is the Buick has been a so called "big car". What is wrong with a big car meeting /exceeding the 2012 35 mpgI and early? I know for example an MB 320 (V-6 TDI) ( that a guru I trust with my diesel maintenance) runs 38 mpg @ 80 mph.
The Jetta TDI is on its way. Every dealer has already received a demo car - sedan with DSG. I took it home for a day, and I got 40 MPG for mixed city/freeway ride home, 12 miles commute. Right now I am pre-selling my allocation for the next 6 months - I am at the only dealership in SF Bay Area that doesn't markup to cars, so the business is going to be very good!
I think you are correct!! I called the sales manager at the local VW dealer and have yet to receive a return call. I did leave a message saying I was interested in a test drive of the new 2009 TDI. Perhaps that was code for pick a numba and stop bothering me. :lemon:
Our Government is losing its status as a “Government” it is now more of a business; it has to make money to survive. Even our military is more of a business than military force. I believe Eisenhower referred to it as the “military industrial complex”.
It’s all about the money and you can see that when they feel like they might take a $ loss. People are taking something that would go into a land fill and pollute and using it reduce fuel dependency and the government is screwing them for it because they are not getting their share of the $$.
Why is the Government or the oil companies not taking this cooking oil and putting it to use? Everyone would win. The waste would stay out of the landfills, the oil would be used, quality controle ensured and the gov. would get it’s taxes.
jkinzel says, "Why is the Government or the oil companies not taking this cooking oil and putting it to use? Everyone would win. The waste would stay out of the landfills, the oil would be used, quality controle ensured and the gov. would get it’s taxes."
The same reason EVs are not the standard. Just because something is a "better idea" does not mean it will automagically succeed in the broad marketplace.
Who is going to collect fryer oil from every fast food place in the country, filter it, and transport it to a pump near you? And who is expected to handle all the veggie oil conversions? You know that could NEVER happen on a large scale. Has it happened in any country in the world yet?
First of all, diesel engines and cars have to become a big hit in the USA and take at least 30% of the marketplace. At that point, Joe Public might have enough diesel knowledge to say "veggie oil delivered by the guvmint is a good idea."
It's never "all about the money" when it comes to the environmental protection the EPA is chartered to provide us.
I don't see anyway that the government can control the flow of used cooking oil. Where people make a mistake is telling others about their windfall. Then it gets on TV and the government realizes we have not taxed that oil enough. They taxed it several times before some enterprising person used it in their old Mercedes. They want to get one last dig into our pockets. Don't think of government as providing services, they are in the business of extracting taxes.
While I personally have never experienced this, others have posted they have been stopped for a regular " [non-permissible content removed] est" shake down for "red dyed" diesel fuel.
Pacific Biodiesel in Hawaii has a THRIVING business keeping grease and cooking oil from messing up their landfill. I have provided dozens of businesses in Oregon that operate their fleets of DIESELs on used cooking oil. They are all above board and legal. So the argument on emissions is without merit. It is PURELY someone getting by without paying their fair share of road tax. Kind of like all those driving hybrids. Before EVs or PHEVs will ever be allowed on the highways in large numbers they will figure out how to tax by the mile. The only fair highway tax.
Gary say, "So the argument on emissions is without merit."
Falsely stated. The EPA cannot just randomly say "put any kind of fuel you want in any kind of engine you want." They would be violating the law. There are laws behind what the EPA is required to do. They aren't just doing it for fun.
Only one station in my area sells red dye diesel. It is only 10 cents per gallon cheaper. It also stinks to high heaven in my tractor. I only bought one time and have used ULSD since. Not sure the sulfur content. I am sure it is high.
I am not sure of what you are arguing. Are you saying that cooking oil is more polluting than diesel? Is biodiesel now illegal? It should be clear to the casual observer the only thing that was in question was the TAX on using cooking oil. There are hundreds of people mixing their own. Making biodiesel out of cooking oil. I say good for them. They are doing more to cut our dependence on foreign oil than anyone using gas or diesel in their vehicles. They are for SURE emitting less GHG. You can argue till you are blue in the face. IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY.
SO IF it reverts to the broader standard (LSD=500 ppm) , red dyed diesel is now actually higher in sulfur!!! So really EPA/CARB has in effect made the standard many times more pollutive, 3.57 x MORE even as they say the standards are stricter!!! PAR for the COURSE I WOULD SAY!?
I'm merely agreeing with the EPA lady who said "we have not certified it as a fuel" and once they DO, then the laws can be changed to make it legal to use.
How the guvmint wants to go about collecting taxes on it is another issue.
It is NEVER all about the money when it comes to the EPA. The EPA is tasked with keeping us safe from environmental dangers - not making money.
A-Ha !! Here is my point, made by someone other than myself, that the EPA in Hawaii is doing things that matter about the ENVIRONMENT an not just about money !!! Thank you !!! Case Closed.
EPA, partners announce diesel vehicle retrofit program: City and County of Honolulu, Grace Pacific "cleaner" vehicles to be demonstrated HONOLULU th Today at the City and County of Honolulu's Alapai Bus Facility, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's Pacific Southwest Region Air Division Director Deborah Jordan announced accomplishments of a diesel engine retrofit program.
(Media-Newswire.com) - HONOLULU – Today at the City and County of Honolulu’s Alapai Bus Facility, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Pacific Southwest Region Air Division Director Deborah Jordan announced accomplishments of a diesel engine retrofit program.
The diesel engine retrofit program’s goal is to reduce diesel air emissions from vehicles and engines for both highway and non-road vehicles operated by public and private organizations, including the City and County of Honolulu, the Board of Water Supply, the state Department of Transportation, Grace Pacific Corp., and Aiwohi Brothers.
“Even in clean areas, exposure to diesel emissions can lead to chronic respiratory problems and premature death,” said Jordan. “I congratulate the City and County of Honolulu, Grace Pacific, the state of Hawaii, and the many other partners for showing true leadership in this field and encouraging retrofits across the state.”
The program specifically identified fleets that could meet retrofit requirements, profiled the equipment needed, developed a purchasing process for the parts and equipment, and provided training for installation and maintenance to continue the program. Over 75 vehicle retrofits have been installed with more planned in the coming years.
“Honolulu is a city blessed with excellent air quality,” said City and County of Honolulu Mayor Mufi Hannemann. “As the Brookings Institute recently reported, Honolulu has the smallest carbon footprint of any major American city. We can, however, and we must do more to reduce the harmful emissions from our vehicles. We pride ourselves on leading by example, and the diesel retrofit program demonstrates our commitment to being part of a solution along with our partner at the federal level, the Environmental Protection Agency. Public health and safety is a mayor’s highest priority, and the diesel retrofit program will help reduce the health risks to our island’s residents.”
The $800,000 diesel retrofit program is funded from a supplemental environmental project agreed to by Chevron U.S.A., Inc., as part of a settlement for enforcement actions. This included $300,000 from an action brought by the EPA and $500,000 from an action brought by the Hawaii Department of Health.
The EPA also announced that the Hawaii Department of Health’s Clean Air Branch will participate in the State Clean Diesel Grant Program to achieve significant reductions in diesel emissions. The effort, which helps states build programs to reduce diesel emissions, is part of the National Clean Diesel Campaign and the West Coast Collaborative, which grant funds to eligible partners for building diesel emission reduction programs across the country to improve air quality and protect public health.
So don't try to tell me AGAIN that it is all about the money. That is total hogwashimuss maximus.
DETROIT (AP) - A report out today says U.S. consumers are showing more interest in hybrid technology despite the higher price tag.
The report from J.D. Power and Associates says 72% of recent car buyers are interested in getting a hybrid for their next vehicle.
That's up from 58% of consumers in 2005.
But once the average $5,000 price differential for a hybrid was revealed, just 46% say they're still interested.
By comparison, consumers remain skeptical of clean diesel technology, which can improve fuel economy by 30% over traditional engines but has a lower premium of $1,800.
Just 37% say they're interested in the technology.
I think the regulatory systems just hope diesel will go away. So the truth is diesel education is really moot. I mean how many received SUV education and the suv population grew to 12% of the passenger vehicle fleet?
We all wish "diesel education" were moot, but it's not.
If people knew that the new clean diesels can perform mostly equal to the hybrids, and not stink, and not have reliability problems, and be available to every buyer in every state, do you still think there would be twice the interest in hybrid as there is in diesel?
The answer, of course, is no frickin' way !!
It requires no "re-education" to buy a gas SUV. To convince people that "these are not your Father's diesels" is a tough task.
We all on this board hope the education goes well.
Maryland drivers face a $1,000 fine for driving on vegetable fuel if they don't register first with the state and file monthly reports and payments, according to Chuck Ulm, assistant director of motor vehicle taxes in the state comptroller's office.
Here is the part the EPA is playing in this game. They are watching you closely.
The EPA has not fined anyone for this, but the federal agency is inspecting and investigating people for not following these rules, said Roxanne Smith, another EPA spokeswoman.
As a protest if everyone would throw all their recycle stuff in the regular trash until the government gets their nose out of places it does not belong. We may see some action. The government is blocking alternative fuels like biodiesel, Solar electric, Nuclear electric, GeoThermal, Wind generation and more. My question is WHY?
So let me get this straight. If the EPA does not have the manpower to send someone to certify the used cooking oil at every Chinese restaurant and fast food place it will not be legal to use as fuel? It will go back to being dumped in the landfill. That seems real smart to me.
Just to let you know how smart our government agencies are. They have been looking for a problem with tomatoes making our citizens sick now for months. They have devastated the tomato growing industry. Doubled the price of tomatoes at the store and have found NOTHING. Now they think it might be something besides Tomatoes. That just happens to be another agency that is supposed to be looking out for US taxpayers. You can trust the government to do the right thing. I DO NOT!
Tomato scare may be mistake
Health officials say other foods could be the source of U.S. salmonella outbreak A growing number of health officials fear that investigators made a terrible mistake in blaming tomatoes for the sickening of more than 800 Americans, and they increasingly suspect jalapeno peppers, cilantro or some other food commonly found in Mexican restaurants, health officials involved in the investigation say.
The salmonella outbreak should be petering out if contaminated tomatoes were the cause, because tomatoes have a limited shelf life and many consumers have been avoiding them. Yet, the number of reported cases has continued to grow, and investigators have failed to identify the source.
Admission of a mistake, after consumers across the country shunned tomatoes and the food industry lost up to $250 million, could deepen criticism of a government food safety system that has been attacked for failing to prevent illnesses and deaths resulting from the contamination of a string of products, including peanut butter and bagged spinach, in recent years.
So don't try to tell me AGAIN that it is all about the money. That is total hogwashimuss maximus
If you read your own article you would realize it was the result of a fine being imposed on the bus company for dirty diesel buses. What that has to do with using SVO in a personal vehicle is beyond me. The retrofit to clean the buses was paid by Chevron as a result of some kind of action by the EPA and the state of Hawaii. Buses all over the USA are getting devices installed to clean the PM and Soot from the dirty diesel they are using. It would not be an issue if they were using ULSD, biodiesel or used cooking oil. The sad part is they convince a few folks that they are worth the billions we waste on them each year.
Gary says, "What that has to do with using SVO in a personal vehicle is beyond me."
Really...? You really don't see the connection? Let me know if you REALLY need me to explain it to you - but I think you are smart enough to see the connection. Try real hard.
If you think it's an easy job to track down the source of the contamination, start a private company and find it. You know it's not EASY. Not everything is as simple as picking up the phone.
They had good reasons for blaming the tomatoes at the time they blamed them.
The tomato industry is not "devastated" either, Gary. I have been in Texas and in AZ in the last two weeks and every grocery store I went to had tomatoes of every kind at the same prices they were at on May 20th.
What the article does not point is the fact that diesel powered cars have only been minimally available for a good number of years. I cannot recall VW ever advertising their diesels and when Chrysler put a diesel in the Liberty, they advertised it near the end of it's run in 2006. Even though the Jeep Grand Cherokee has a diesel option, I have yet to see or hear a single advertisement for the diesel option. Only those people aware enough know what is available.
Hybrids have had a lot of press in the past few years and have been hyped to kingdom come, thus the interest in them. People are generally unwilling to try something radically different like a diesel whereas the present flock of hybrids still use gasoline, something people are comfortable with. What has not been put out there is the complexity and long term costs associated with most hybrids and the fact that they do not deliver the FE they claim.
Diesels on the other hand are still viewed as crude, slow, noisy and in some way lacking sophistication. Anyone who has had the opportunity to own and/or drive the new generation of diesels know them to be powerful, clean and smooth, and nothing like the diesels from the eighties. If and when the automakers decide to advertise there diesel offerings with as much gusto as the hybrid people have, then nothing will happen. Another issue is that the price of diesel fuel is going to be a turn off to most buyers unless someone is willing to do the math and show people that diesel is still significantly cheaper to run per mile.
Comments
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-ranger-escapes-axe-thanks-to-high-gas-prices.ht- ml
I think it is safe to assume all "final" decisions about upcoming product offerings are suspect. All the domestics and even Toyota are scrambling to change their mix. When Bob Lutz is talking about putting a turbo 4 in Buicks and the Camaro, (where a diesel would work so much better) hell has probably already frozen over.
The full size trucks will never get 30mpg US but they can see a big bump in Milege with diesel use.
Though till now fuel consumption hasn't been a big deal so consumers bought the cheaper gas version over the diesel version in the lighter duty trucks.
What it really comes down to is US consumers buying diesel cars other wise they won't build them. VW is a poor diesel example as VW has a reputation and no matter what sort of car they offer only a certain percentage of shoppers will consider them. I've owned VW's and own a recent one now "it went to the shop today" again.. I won't own another VW the rest of my life.
Indeed that is fully 50% better!!! If we were able to CUT 50% of the demand, we'd be down to less than 10% IMPORTED oil.
I think the Liberty/Cherokee CRD (@30-31 mpg) might be the standard bearer going forward!!
============================================================
I think he would rather sell them as turbo charged gas vehicles than have to use them as diesel engined boat anchors.
But people like their V-8 engines for torque, and a 6 cyl diesel would replicate what Buick and Camaro drivers are looking for a lot more closely than a turbo 4, with the same or better resulting fuel economy.
DME has a higher cetane number and looks to be a clean burning fuel. Mix it with some LPG and it works in petrol engines too. DME can be created from coal, natural gas or biomass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080701.wrefineries0701/BNSt- ory/Business
If the IEA is correct diesel prices would stay at current levels or increase but not drop. I'm not sure the IEA has all the facts they need to make the call. I suspect there are a lot of internal plans by refineries to increase diesel production that the IEA is not aware of. Still, it makes a person wonder if it isn't best to hold off switching to a diesel until things become more clear.
As time goes on the percentage of diesels in the European fleet continue to increase. For every 100 cars sold in Europe, about 55 are diesel. It is likely they are replacing 15+ year old cars, 90% of which are gassers. This will continue to increase demand for diesel and keep prices high.
Where is your gambling spirit man? I bought the 05 Passat TDI in April of 2005 when diesel in Oregon was about 30 cents more than regular. A year later in May of 06 gas was over $3 and diesel was $2.49. I made $3,000 over what I bought the car new for. If diesel holds at these prices a person should get a good buy on a diesel vehicle. Then when the price rolls over you laugh all the way to the bank. If not it will still be a superior vehicle to anything with a gas engine. Win Win!!
That and the simple fact is ethanol will NEVER replace gas. There are at least 4 good shots at distillate replacements in the not too distant future. Life is a gamble.
We put on 145K miles on our 93 and never had a lick of serious mechanical trouble.
They quit making them in 04 so we went out last summer and bought another used one to bridge the gap until someone builds a quality car with good mileage in the USA..
If you look around a low mileage Park Ave is in your neighborhood.
Drivers of vegetable-oil vehicles in a legal pickle
EFFORT TO GO GREEN VIOLATES FEDERAL ENVIRONMENT LAWS
By Tom Pelton
The Baltimore Sun
Article Launched: 07/02/2008 01:35:39 AM PDT
link title
See the bolded parts below to see my point being made.
But these motorists are running afoul of federal and state government agencies whose jobs are to collect taxes from drivers to pay for road maintenance and make sure that fuels don't pollute the air.
Maryland drivers face a $1,000 fine for driving on vegetable fuel if they don't register first with the state and file monthly reports and payments, according to Chuck Ulm, assistant director of motor vehicle taxes in the state comptroller's office.
A spokesman for Comptroller Peter Franchot said Franchot generally supports the use of alternative fuels as a way to help end the nation's dependence on foreign oil and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
But, said spokesman Warren Hansen, "At this point, the legislature has not changed the way this fuel is taxed or regulated, so we are just enforcing the laws that are currently on the books."
But a tax credit in Maryland would have little effect if driving while green is illegal at the federal level. Catherine C. Milbourn, spokeswoman for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, said federal laws prohibit running vehicles on used vegetable oil.
"All fuels have to be tested before they can be used in a vehicle, because when something goes into the engine and is burned up, something comes out of the tailpipe. And we want to make sure it doesn't harm the environment in any way," Milbourn said. "Vegetable fuel has not been registered as a motor vehicle fuel."
Now, here's what I think SHOULD happen:
1. The EPA should fully test veggie oil fuel and get it "registered as a motor vehicle fuel" so people can use it.
2. The law needs to change to allow it's use.
3. The tax collection process should change to allow veggie oil burners to easily pay thie fair share of fuel taxes and make it EASY on the vehicle owner to pay those taxes.
Now - WILL all that happen? It should.
You crack me up. It will only happen when hell freezes over. It took the EPA 30+ years to get the sulfur out of diesel fuel. Now you want them to figure out how to tax a gallon of cooking oil from McDonald's. I say break the law and don't tell everyone you are beating the STINKING system in this country. If you have any evidence that used cooking oil is more polluting than D2 I would love to see it. It is just another case of BIG BROTHERISM. If you think the screaming from those that are trying to save on fossil fuel is loud now. Wait until an EV gets offered in this country. I don't think the EPA and the NHTSA will let them be sold. Canada has already blocked the sale of the EV being built in Toronto. How do you tax an EV? Until they figure out how to tax by the mile it will be tough getting any kind of alternatives legalized.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f09ff51/31222
The Jetta TDI is on its way. Every dealer has already received a demo car - sedan with DSG. I took it home for a day, and I got 40 MPG for mixed city/freeway ride home, 12 miles commute.
Right now I am pre-selling my allocation for the next 6 months - I am at the only dealership in SF Bay Area that doesn't markup to cars, so the business is going to be very good!
Our Government is losing its status as a “Government” it is now more of a business; it has to make money to survive. Even our military is more of a business than military force. I believe Eisenhower referred to it as the “military industrial complex”.
It’s all about the money and you can see that when they feel like they might take a $ loss. People are taking something that would go into a land fill and pollute and using it reduce fuel dependency and the government is screwing them for it because they are not getting their share of the $$.
Why is the Government or the oil companies not taking this cooking oil and putting it to use? Everyone would win. The waste would stay out of the landfills, the oil would be used, quality controle ensured and the gov. would get it’s taxes.
The same reason EVs are not the standard. Just because something is a "better idea" does not mean it will automagically succeed in the broad marketplace.
Who is going to collect fryer oil from every fast food place in the country, filter it, and transport it to a pump near you? And who is expected to handle all the veggie oil conversions? You know that could NEVER happen on a large scale. Has it happened in any country in the world yet?
First of all, diesel engines and cars have to become a big hit in the USA and take at least 30% of the marketplace. At that point, Joe Public might have enough diesel knowledge to say "veggie oil delivered by the guvmint is a good idea."
It's never "all about the money" when it comes to the environmental protection the EPA is chartered to provide us.
It's not to make the guvmint rich mi amigo.
It's to provide EXACTLY those services of which you speak. No tax collected, no services can be provided.
Falsely stated. The EPA cannot just randomly say "put any kind of fuel you want in any kind of engine you want." They would be violating the law. There are laws behind what the EPA is required to do. They aren't just doing it for fun.
In "theory" it sells sans Fed/State taxes.
Now in CA it is again in theory, LSD. (500 ppm)
BUT hysterically LSD has been 140 ppm in CA.
SO IF it reverts to the broader standard (LSD=500 ppm) , red dyed diesel is now actually higher in sulfur!!! So really EPA/CARB has in effect made the standard many times more pollutive, 3.57 x MORE even as they say the standards are stricter!!! PAR for the COURSE I WOULD SAY!?
How the guvmint wants to go about collecting taxes on it is another issue.
It is NEVER all about the money when it comes to the EPA. The EPA is tasked with keeping us safe from environmental dangers - not making money.
EPA working to keep Hawaii air CLEAN
EPA, partners announce diesel vehicle retrofit program: City and County of Honolulu, Grace Pacific "cleaner" vehicles to be demonstrated
HONOLULU th Today at the City and County of Honolulu's Alapai Bus Facility, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's Pacific Southwest Region Air Division Director Deborah Jordan announced accomplishments of a diesel engine retrofit program.
(Media-Newswire.com) - HONOLULU – Today at the City and County of Honolulu’s Alapai Bus Facility, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Pacific Southwest Region Air Division Director Deborah Jordan announced accomplishments of a diesel engine retrofit program.
The diesel engine retrofit program’s goal is to reduce diesel air emissions from vehicles and engines for both highway and non-road vehicles operated by public and private organizations, including the City and County of Honolulu, the Board of Water Supply, the state Department of Transportation, Grace Pacific Corp., and Aiwohi Brothers.
“Even in clean areas, exposure to diesel emissions can lead to chronic respiratory problems and premature death,” said Jordan. “I congratulate the City and County of Honolulu, Grace Pacific, the state of Hawaii, and the many other partners for showing true leadership in this field and encouraging retrofits across the state.”
The program specifically identified fleets that could meet retrofit requirements, profiled the equipment needed, developed a purchasing process for the parts and equipment, and provided training for installation and maintenance to continue the program. Over 75 vehicle retrofits have been installed with more planned in the coming years.
“Honolulu is a city blessed with excellent air quality,” said City and County of Honolulu Mayor Mufi Hannemann. “As the Brookings Institute recently reported, Honolulu has the smallest carbon footprint of any major American city. We can, however, and we must do more to reduce the harmful emissions from our vehicles. We pride ourselves on leading by example, and the diesel retrofit program demonstrates our commitment to being part of a solution along with our partner at the federal level, the Environmental Protection Agency. Public health and safety is a mayor’s highest priority, and the diesel retrofit program will help reduce the health risks to our island’s residents.”
The $800,000 diesel retrofit program is funded from a supplemental environmental project agreed to by Chevron U.S.A., Inc., as part of a settlement for enforcement actions. This included $300,000 from an action brought by the EPA and $500,000 from an action brought by the Hawaii Department of Health.
The EPA also announced that the Hawaii Department of Health’s Clean Air Branch will participate in the State Clean Diesel Grant Program to achieve significant reductions in diesel emissions. The effort, which helps states build programs to reduce diesel emissions, is part of the National Clean Diesel Campaign and the West Coast Collaborative, which grant funds to eligible partners for building diesel emission reduction programs across the country to improve air quality and protect public health.
So don't try to tell me AGAIN that it is all about the money. That is total hogwashimuss maximus.
Diesel desire lacking
DETROIT (AP) - A report out today says U.S. consumers are showing more interest in hybrid technology despite the higher price tag.
The report from J.D. Power and Associates says 72% of recent car buyers are interested in getting a hybrid for their next vehicle.
That's up from 58% of consumers in 2005.
But once the average $5,000 price differential for a hybrid was revealed, just 46% say they're still interested.
By comparison, consumers remain skeptical of clean diesel technology, which can improve fuel economy by 30% over traditional engines but has a lower premium of $1,800.
Just 37% say they're interested in the technology.
If people knew that the new clean diesels can perform mostly equal to the hybrids, and not stink, and not have reliability problems, and be available to every buyer in every state, do you still think there would be twice the interest in hybrid as there is in diesel?
The answer, of course, is no frickin' way !!
It requires no "re-education" to buy a gas SUV. To convince people that "these are not your Father's diesels" is a tough task.
We all on this board hope the education goes well.
Maryland drivers face a $1,000 fine for driving on vegetable fuel if they don't register first with the state and file monthly reports and payments, according to Chuck Ulm, assistant director of motor vehicle taxes in the state comptroller's office.
Here is the part the EPA is playing in this game. They are watching you closely.
The EPA has not fined anyone for this, but the federal agency is inspecting and investigating people for not following these rules, said Roxanne Smith, another EPA spokeswoman.
As a protest if everyone would throw all their recycle stuff in the regular trash until the government gets their nose out of places it does not belong. We may see some action. The government is blocking alternative fuels like biodiesel, Solar electric, Nuclear electric, GeoThermal, Wind generation and more. My question is WHY?
So let me get this straight. If the EPA does not have the manpower to send someone to certify the used cooking oil at every Chinese restaurant and fast food place it will not be legal to use as fuel? It will go back to being dumped in the landfill. That seems real smart to me.
Just to let you know how smart our government agencies are. They have been looking for a problem with tomatoes making our citizens sick now for months. They have devastated the tomato growing industry. Doubled the price of tomatoes at the store and have found NOTHING. Now they think it might be something besides Tomatoes. That just happens to be another agency that is supposed to be looking out for US taxpayers. You can trust the government to do the right thing. I DO NOT!
Tomato scare may be mistake
Health officials say other foods could be the source of U.S. salmonella outbreak
A growing number of health officials fear that investigators made a terrible mistake in blaming tomatoes for the sickening of more than 800 Americans, and they increasingly suspect jalapeno peppers, cilantro or some other food commonly found in Mexican restaurants, health officials involved in the investigation say.
The salmonella outbreak should be petering out if contaminated tomatoes were the cause, because tomatoes have a limited shelf life and many consumers have been avoiding them. Yet, the number of reported cases has continued to grow, and investigators have failed to identify the source.
Admission of a mistake, after consumers across the country shunned tomatoes and the food industry lost up to $250 million, could deepen criticism of a government food safety system that has been attacked for failing to prevent illnesses and deaths resulting from the contamination of a string of products, including peanut butter and bagged spinach, in recent years.
If you read your own article you would realize it was the result of a fine being imposed on the bus company for dirty diesel buses. What that has to do with using SVO in a personal vehicle is beyond me. The retrofit to clean the buses was paid by Chevron as a result of some kind of action by the EPA and the state of Hawaii. Buses all over the USA are getting devices installed to clean the PM and Soot from the dirty diesel they are using. It would not be an issue if they were using ULSD, biodiesel or used cooking oil. The sad part is they convince a few folks that they are worth the billions we waste on them each year.
Really...? You really don't see the connection? Let me know if you REALLY need me to explain it to you - but I think you are smart enough to see the connection. Try real hard.
They had good reasons for blaming the tomatoes at the time they blamed them.
The tomato industry is not "devastated" either, Gary. I have been in Texas and in AZ in the last two weeks and every grocery store I went to had tomatoes of every kind at the same prices they were at on May 20th.
Don't get all melodramatic on us dude !!
Hybrids have had a lot of press in the past few years and have been hyped to kingdom come, thus the interest in them. People are generally unwilling to try something radically different like a diesel whereas the present flock of hybrids still use gasoline, something people are comfortable with. What has not been put out there is the complexity and long term costs associated with most hybrids and the fact that they do not deliver the FE they claim.
Diesels on the other hand are still viewed as crude, slow, noisy and in some way lacking sophistication. Anyone who has had the opportunity to own and/or drive the new generation of diesels know them to be powerful, clean and smooth, and nothing like the diesels from the eighties. If and when the automakers decide to advertise there diesel offerings with as much gusto as the hybrid people have, then nothing will happen. Another issue is that the price of diesel fuel is going to be a turn off to most buyers unless someone is willing to do the math and show people that diesel is still significantly cheaper to run per mile.