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Diesels in the News

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Comments

  • Very interesting, but with a MAX speed of 35mph, I'd probably opt for a GEM car, and use no dino fuel and still go 30-35mph (optional 7.5HP motor).

    -PR-

    03 Ford F350 SuperCrew KingRanch 6.0L Powerstroke
    04 VW Jetta GLS TDI
    05 VW Passat GLS TDI
  • chrisducatichrisducati Posts: 394
    I like the idea. Although 20G is cheap for the Army it is high in the civilian world. If I needed a small compound vehicle I can't help think that two or three grand would be top dollar... Here in my neighborhood the golf cart and the Scooter rule. Cheap cheap cheap.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,251
    Today I drove a car with a 'greasel' diesel conversion. It ran like a normal version of the car (1983 MB 300SD). And true to the tales, the exhaust smelled like cooking oil.
  • bhill2bhill2 Posts: 2,044
    'greasel' - I LOVE it! I suggest that you register it as a trademark. Someone will probably pay you a fortune for the right to use it. It reminds me of a question that I have never asked. If you convert a diesel to run on cooking oil, can it still also burn diesel or biodiesel or are you stuck from then on buying your fuel at fast food outlets?

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    You need to get on Pacific Biodiesel website. They convert most of the cooking oil in Hawaii into biodiesel. It can be mixed in any amount with # 1 or # 2 diesel. The only precautions are you will need to upgrade any rubber hoses on older diesel engines. And make sure that you buy from a reputable processor. I'm not ready to brew my own. At least as long as it stays under 5 bucks a gallon.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,251
    'Greasel' isn't my creation, unfortunately...but it is catchy.

    Yes, I think you can switch between fuel sources of your choice...of course, you'll want seperate tanks I think.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    "I would assume, based on early indications, we'll have to increase some more. We can't keep them on the lots."
    That is a good sign for expanding diesel vehicles of all sizes. I would really consider a Wrangler diesel for beating around the back country. I love the torque of my VW TDI, I imagine the CRD is even better.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    is it the same blend as what the rest of the world are using? If they are, can manufacturers bring over their existing diesel cars? For example, can MB shipped their c class diesels over immediately as soon as the low sulphur fuel are available? Same thing with a diesel civic or corolla?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    No, the fuel in Europe is lower in sulfur than the low sulfur diesel in US/Canada. The emissions requirements are more stringent in US than Europe for diesel emissions.
    The gap is getting smaller, 50 ppm vs. 15 ppm.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Consumers would receive a credit of up to $4,000, based on the level of the vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle.

    http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/11505235.htm
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    See Here

    Very promising for the new V6 diesel engine being certified for sell in all 50 states once low sulfur diesel is available.

    M
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    The number of light and medium-duty diesel passenger vehicles registered in the US grew 56% from 2000 through 2004, from 301,741 to 468,990. That represents an increase in marketshare of 1.14 percentage points, from 2.25% in 2000 to 3.37% in 2004

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/03/diesel_passenge.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    That sounds like my kind of car. Good article. I liked the part about tax incentives for diesel as well as hybrids. I think diesel has gotten a bum rap over the last 5 years. Dirty diesel like leaded gas is a regulatory problem not a consumer problem. Consumers just want the most efficiency for their fuel dollar.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    “We’ve got the President talking about and calling for tax incentives for diesels—putting them on a par with other advanced technologies like hybrids—we’ve got the House just passed an energy bill that includes tax credits for diesel and today we’re showing the most advanced clean diesel technology that’s available here in the US and what Europeans are experiencing,“

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/05/clean_diesels_o.html
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I agree, and you will see a big push for diesels once our fuel supply is cleaned up. The European brand especially are just waiting for this.

    We Americans are just plain slow to reconsider something that left such a bad impression on us in the past. That will be the biggest hurdle for selling diesels in this country, past images and perception.

    M
  • gfedchakgfedchak Posts: 37
    Nasty review of diesel autos, at least for the U.S., by Car & Driver editor Patrick Bedard in his June 2005 column.

    The gist is, re: diesel cars in general:

    "Should we care? The car guy in me says don't bother."

    The problem is that diesel fuel prices are likely to go up in 2006 when new sulfur regs kick in. New pollution equipment will also give diesels a minimum of a $4500 sticker premium over that of gas engines, worse than even hybrid premiums.

    The essay ends with, "It's hard to see a payback on a 2007 diesel car in the U.S. in less than 200,000 miles. That's efficiency you couldn't sell at gunpoint. And every cent that diesel fuel rises above gasoline pushes the payback out farther."
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 130,977
    For an engineer, Bedard has some goofy views, and some seem amazingly poorly thought out...

    Most hybrids won't pay for themselves in 500K miles, yet they are touted as the saviour of the auto industry and our oil independence.... At least a diesel has a chance of actually going 200K miles...

    He had a whole column once, where all he did was [non-permissible content removed] about a car re-locking the doors if you opened it with the remote and then didn't open a door within 30 seconds.. As anyone with OCD could tell you, without this feature, you'd never be able to leave the car without worrying that you had bumped the remote in your pocket and accidently unlocked the doors..

    But, he was just ticked off that he couldn't unlock the car from his balcony.. then carry something downstairs and open the door of the car a couple of minutes later... Must be a California thing... where I come from, we use things called pockets...

    Sometimes I wonder if he got his engineering degree off the back of a box of Lucky Charms...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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    Edmunds Moderator

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    I am using BP ECD-1 sold at ARCO stations in CA. I paid for the last fill-up $2.49 per gallon. Same price as trucker #2 at the other stations. Unleaded was $2.43 per gallon. I think the Ace in the Hole with diesel cars is biodiesel. If the gas prices go up much higher biodiesel becomes a very good alternative clean fuel. The Greenies will have no legitimate complaint with using biodiesel. Anyone that believes hybrids with their complex systems are good for a long time (10 plus years) are not very knowledgeable about electronics and time. The Prius II is already plagued with computer problems and it is not 2 years old. I just bought a Passat TDI to have all bases covered. The premium for diesel was $205. That is cheap. I know you pay several thousand more for a diesel in a PU truck, mainly because of the rebates and incentives for gas engines.
  • tomjavatomjava Posts: 136
    Very good point. Plus In CA, diesel fuel is higher than premium gas. Higher sticker price and fuel price are more likely turn off most consumers to buy diesel cars.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    I just drove a new Passat TDI from Oregon to San Diego. I crisscrossed the state using mostly winding low traffic highways. I never saw diesel as expensive as premium unleaded. Most of the time it was within 2-3 cents of regular. The highest price paid was in San Diego at 10 cents more than regular. That was for ULSD less than 15 PPM, the good stuff. In Ukiah, CA I paid the same for ULSD as regular unleaded at the ARCO station just as you drive into town. Plus with the added range of most diesel vehicles you can pick and choose your stations. Not to mention the 37 MPG. After 1600 miles I would never buy another gas engine car. The low RPM torque makes highway driving a pleasure that high revving gas engines cannot match. PS this is my first diesel in 47 years of car ownership.
  • gfedchakgfedchak Posts: 37
    I don't endorse Bedard's views. I know virtually nothing about diesels, but have become interested in them as I've gotten more and more into cars. I drive a Honda Civic Hybrid at the moment (And, so far, love it.)

    I really hate the fact that the issue in the media seems to be diesel vs. hybrid when, in fact, I see hybrid drivers and diesel drivers as being on the same side - on the side of innovation, economy, the environment, and even on the same side on geopolitical issues.

    It's important to note that two pages after Bedard's column, Brock Yates wrote one lambasting hybrids. It seems that the mainstream automotive journalists have little interest in anything beyond normal gasoline-fed internal combustion engines. I wouldn't have expected that.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    I really hate the fact that the issue in the media seems to be diesel vs. hybrid

    I totally agree with you. I started researching Edmund's several years ago looking for a small diesel PU. When hybrids hit the scene I thought that might be the answer. Hybrids seem to be headed in a different direction. I follow the hybrid threads closely and feel like an outsider because I consider diesel an alternative to gas guzzling vehicles. I think the HCH & Insight best exploit the hybrid technology. I think the Toyota HSD is too complex and expensive to attract mainstream attention. I'm glad that the congress is considering all high mileage vehicles when they consider tax incentives. To me any vehicle that gets 45 MPG is a good choice. For my TDI I will use low sulfur diesel whenever possible as it is better for the TDI that was developed on ULSD. I believe there is room for all alternative ways of saving our fossil fuel.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Toyota is launching it's third generation diesels in Europe.
    If you live in the US or Canada "NO DIESEL FOR YOU". Wish we had access to the light truck and car Toyota diesels.

    http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/newsarchiveitem.html?id=4624&pos=1
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm tellin' you when that low sulfur diesel is available here the Germans are going to stage a diesel product blitz.

    M
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 130,977
    The only thing that can stop it is CARB.. If the emissions numbers keep moving on them, diesels may never be able to attain them, even with low sulfur..

    The California car market is the tail that wags the dog...

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,251
    Maybe they could just have them all classified as trucks or commercial vehicles and dodge responsibility like trucks and commercial vehicles do...
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 130,977
    I wouldn't call it "dodging responsibility". Commercial vehicles that have a legitimate commercial purpose contribute to the economy.. And.. it is in their best interest to burn as little fuel as possible.. So, it isn't as though they want to pollute more.. They work with the technology that is given them.. If you have a better way to move goods around the country, round up some investors and you can get rich (ala Fred Smith).

    A lot of transportation companies work very hard at developing more efficient commercial vehicles.. Hybrid diesels are being tested by UPS and Fedex right now..

    I agree... there are loopholes that should be closed... The idiotic 6000 lb. GVWR tax credit is one of them..

    You sure this isn't about not being able to import that gray-market Mercedes? ;)

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,251
    Any grey market cars I would want are almost as old as me...so it's not that. Well, a modern S class diesel would be cool...but it theoretically could make it here, if an E can.

    I do find there is some hypocrisy in the rules, though. An overcompensating dork with his big diesel dually truck is not a commercial user. A lot of these vehicles that are held to different standards of accountability are not sold to truly commercial users. Consumers contribute to the economy as well...but seeing in this society that business has less and less responsibility as time goes on, it shouldn't be a surprise.

    That tax credit is a crime, and it shows the mettle of some of the people who have been allowed to make the rules.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 130,977
    I agree completely about the faux commercial vehicles....

    Anyway, I think luxury diesels could be a big hit again.. If they can ever manage to actually get them here...

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,251
    I think they could do well. If diesel gets any fad value, they would sell handily. MB enthuiasts would also be interested. They've had no problem in smashing their CDi sales targets.

    At the Vancouver auto show I asked a MB rep about any plans for a S class diesel. He looked at me like I was speaking Greek.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Read an article in "BMW" when i was at border's last night. 530d chipped. Stock, 272hp, 414lb-ft. Chipped, 330hp, 476lb-ft, or thereabouts--I didn't try to remember the numbers. They referred to it as the poor man's m5.

    If they bring the 330d here, i'm putting a deposit on one!

    dave
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Very true. If that happens the Europeans will have to just conceed that market or play endless catchup with the Japanese on gas-electric hybrids.

    A diesel hybrid really sounds like the best combo to me, but such a thing is very complicated from what I understand. Though Mercedes has shown one it is years off from production.

    M
  • Diesel Hybrid....

    Ford has shown one in their Lincoln Meta One concept in this years auto show. It is a motor developed for Jaguar but here's hoping it makes it. Not a cast iron block from what I remember reading but a light weight composite.

    Yes this is the ultimate power train combo.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    Good articles and don't forget to send your check into the State treasury.... Let me see did I make 3 or was it 4 gallons last year? :)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "DaimlerChrysler says it will become the first manufacturer to unveil a diesel concept car that will meet more stringent pollution rules and get higher mileage than diesels now on the road."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/06/AR2005060601842.html
  • arkitectarkitect Posts: 75
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