I'm happy to see that everybody through out any pre conceived notions about Hyundai and gave objective opinions. I'm not surprised by the results, but admittedly I am biased.
Now the big question is when will the general public accept these results? I'm already hearing people say that it was unfair because you put a V6 against their 4 cyl cars, even though it fit your pricing criteria, the Honda and Toyota loyalists are crying foul.
I recapped all previous questions to make it easier for me to guess, and I decided to share (aren't I nice).
It's a CAR (not a motorcycle) built after 1999. no, it isn't a sedan Is it a convertible? No Roadster? No Is the vehicle still in production? Yes Is it a German make? No
Two questions...first, is it a Japanese make?
2nd, what is the significance of saying built after 1999 (why did you pick that year)? Or would that give it away (say, if it was a MY2000)? You can just share after we guess in that case.
2nd, what is the significance of saying built after 1999 (why did you pick that year)? Or would that give it away (say, if it was a MY2000)? You can just share after we guess in that case.
I just wanted people to know it was a relatively modern car, not some weird old muscle car or something else I might have a penchant for buying, but would be hard to figure out. I could have easily said it was built after 2000, or 2001.
Let's compare apples with apples. You have a v6 Sonata against a Honda and Toyota with 4's. You put the Sonata MPG at 19.9 city/highway, this is horrid. My 05 Accord V6 is averaging 25.8 in mixed use driving and my best was 35.7 mpg driving New Mexico to California in 90-100 degree heat.
The Hyundai is a good, improved car, but doesn't hold a candle to the Toyota or Honda makes.
It was built after 1999. It's not a sedan. It's not a convertible. It's a "toy" It's not a roadster It's still in production. It's not from German. It's not Japanese. It IS American. It does increase grin factor on Mulholland Drive. It's not a Corvette. It's not automatic. It IS RWD. It's not from Chrysler. It's not a Mustang GT.
I have one more question before I guess - Is the horsepower rating under 300?
Michael is correct. In the next two weeks I take delivery of a Ford GT.
Quick background:
I called my Ford contacts less than 24 hours after this car was annouced for production...in February 2002. At the time I didn't know how I would afford it (at the time they hadn't even announced production). But I figured I would have a few years to figure it out. Certainly I didn't want to be able to afford it years later and never have called to be put "on the list."
I could write a book about the journey, from being told I was on the list, to being told I might not be on the list, to finally being assured I was indeed on the list (signed off by Nick Scheele and everything).
Obviously I'm super excited. Oh, and in terms of affording it? Let's just say the stupid-crazy real estate market in California has been kind to me. And no, I'm not blowing everything I have on this car. I still have a few dollars left for those other minor details in life (college fund for kids, retirement, blah-blah).
Thanks for playing everyone. Happy to take questions, comments, or reproachements for my purchase decision.
Apples to apples. They compared 4-door sedans from all 3 makes with a price ceiling of $22k. It may surprise you to know that a fair number of buyers operate on particular budgets and simply try to get the best 'value' (term defined by the individual buyer) for that particular budget.
Sonata mpg of approx. 20 is cetainly not something to write home about (as point of comparison, Accord V6 was tested at 26mpg in Edmunds test of 2003 model). But the price difference in MSRP between the Sonata GLS ($20,895) and Accord EX-V6 ($26,850) is nearly $6k.
Even at $3.00/gal for regular unleaded, that's 2000 gallons. Driving 12,000 miles per year, the Sonata would consume 600 gallons and the Accord V6 would consume approx. 450 gallons (150 gallons difference). For the $6k price difference, that's the equivalent of over 13 years worth of additional gas for the Hyundai.
"The Hyundai is a good, improved car, but doesn't hold a candle to the Toyota or Honda makes.
Unless you've actually DRIVEN each of the 3 makes (and I certainly haven't), I don't know how one can make this statement unless you're are simply biased against Hyundai (and this comes from the owner of an '05 Ody EX-L)
Other minor details would also include insurance (probably approaches college funds...).
I actually avoided checking with my insurance company because I was afraid of the answer, but I finally broke down a few weeks ago and called them.
Annual premium from USAA (a great insurance company that I've been a member of for 20 years now) -- $1,140. Yes, that's less than $100 a month -- for full coverage and with annual mileage of 5,000. I do have a great driving record and all, but I was shocked. I was prepared for anything between $2K and $5K a year.
"In the next two weeks I take delivery of a Ford GT. "
To be followed immediately thereafter by a 2-week road trip. We'll expect to hear back from you by the middle of August at the earliest.
You know, central Texas is TERRIFIC in early August. I'm thinking specifically of a DE event on the 3.9 mile road course at Texas World Speedway on August 6-7. I'd be more than happy to show you the 'proper' line.....
It doesn't surprise me that the V6 Sonata beat the 4 cylinder Accord and Camry. Frankly, it's a no brainer. Against the V6's it likely would have lost, but I bet it would be close. But when it comes to reliability, I'd still stay away from Hyundai. They are improving, but they're not there yet.
So bottom line - I might enjoy a Sonata as a rental car over a Camry for a week, but I wouldn't buy it.
Unless you've actually DRIVEN each of the 3 makes (and I certainly haven't), I don't know how one can make this statement unless you're are simply biased against Hyundai (and this comes from the owner of an '05 Ody EX-L)
Your analysis for fuel costs and overall value are right on. And trust me, I have driven all three, and the Sonata is simply an amazing value! I know it will take years to convince the Honda/Toyota loyalist to even consider a Hyundai, but then again, it took years for Honda and Toyota to make the average American consider them over Chevry, Chrysler or Ford.
All I can say is -- watch out Japanese automakers. Don't let your current market strength blind you. That's what the domestics were doing in the early 1970s...
I can't really think of anything to say, except that I am amazed.
I've seen one GT so far, in CT. I believe it was blue with white stripes. What is yours? Oh, and I think you guys will have to run the battery of performance tests on it.
Wow! I'm amazed that you're getting a Ford GT! I've never seen one.
I was going to guess that sooner or later, all the stipulations you gave didn't leave many possible cars. Didn't think you'd go for an exotic! My intial guess was believe it or not Cobalt SS, but I remembered it's FWD.
If I were you, I would have waited for the upcoming 2007 Ford Shelby GT500. It's one of the coolest looking cars out there, better looking than the GT IMO. It's got an affordable price tag, about $40K or so. The interior is gorgeous, one of the best I've seen in any Ford. It's also got 450hp to boot, and a sub 5 second 0-60 time. It also shares a few parts with the GT, I hear. But each to his own.
Now a few questions.
How much did it cost, if you don't mind me asking? And how often do you plan to drive it, and to where? What color is it?
Will you be doing a first drive/full test of the Ford GT anytime soon?
Did you see Car and Driver's "Lords of Envy" comparison test? The Ford took a respectable 3rd, beat only by the Gallardo and F430. It beat a 911 Turbo S, SL65 AMG and DB9. That's pretty impressive, all for $157K.
So, if the Ford GT were to be included as an Edmund's long-term test vehicle, would Edmund's pay YOU to drive your own car?
This sort of situation was obviously considered by me, but the problem with our long-term cars is everyone gets to drive them. For long-term reporting, that's good (multiple perspectives always result in more accurate reporting), but for an exotic car that I've been dreaming about my whole life, that's bad. I didn't really relish the idea of 12-plus people rotating through the driver's seat on any given day...
As is, even though I bought the car myself, I'll still end up using it for Edmunds/Inside Line benefit where possible. I'm thinking of doing a monthly long-term report/logbook type thing, just because that would be unique material on the Ford GT. And it will likely end up in Edmunds.com booths at various events (SEMA, etc.), plus any promotional video shoots we do for the site, etc.
Obviously the company has been good to me, so returning the favor is the least I can do. BTW, on Friday I hit my official 7-year anniversary with Edmunds.com (July 15, 1998 was my first day).
I cannot believe that I was right ... my guess was truly meant for humor and nothing more.
I hear ya about the SoCal real estate market. Sister and BIL have a house near San Diego they bought < 2 years ago for $500K -- now worth north of $900K.
So I can totally understand how you can buy a $150K sports car and still have enough left over for college fund, mac and cheese, ramen noodles, insurance and gas.
Please don't tell us you'll be driving this on the 405 ... that it will be trailered to Willow Springs or some other track that is relatively close to LA and driven in proper conditions.
EDIT: I'm going to be in SoCal in August to visit family. Since I guessed right, do I get a ride?
I've seen one GT so far, in CT. I believe it was blue with white stripes. What is yours?
Mine will be dark blue with full stripes. I agonized on the color for a looong time. First it was yellow (the color of the original concept car), then white, then red. But all my Ford contacts kept telling me "blue-blue-blue" and I figured they'd know better than anyone. Dark blue is actually one of my favorite colors anyway, but I felt the GT's was a bit too dark, thus hiding all the beautiful lines. But I finally saw a blue one in person and it was like, "Oh, this is the only color to get."
Close to half the ones built so far are red, so I'm glad I didn't go with that color. It looks beautiful in red, but red ones are going to be everywhere.
If I were you, I would have waited for the upcoming 2007 Ford Shelby GT500.
Who says I'm not already on the list for the GT500...
I certainly agree with everything you've said about that one, especially the interior. I sat in it for the first time last week. It's like Audi got ahold of a Mustang...
How much did it cost, if you don't mind me asking? And how often do you plan to drive it, and to where? What color is it?
I'm paying MSRP (a personal rule I don't break...unless I can get something for less than MSRP). I would like to drive it approximately once a week. With my commute that's about 100 miles total, most of which are on PCH (not a bad route for this car). It's blue with stripes.
Will you be doing a first drive/full test of the Ford GT anytime soon?
We've got several stories on the Ford GT, but no actual Full Test with our own performance numbers, so probably -- after it is broken in of course.
BTW, I was at the GT plant(s) three weeks ago to do a story on "Building a Ford GT" which should run in the next two weeks. I've already written it and organized the photos, and it is going to be cool! And of course we scheduled the story so I would be at the plant when "my" car was being built. I have pictures of me standing next to it, about 80% done. It was painted and most of the body panels were on, but no drivetrain or interior. It was very fun!
Several years ago, there was a reunion of GT40's at Watkins Glen (I wasn't there but my cousin attended). Amoungst the various typical colors represented (I've always been partial to the Gulf colors of baby blue/orange) was a really mean looking one in dark green with a yellow nose (looking something like this):
If I could have a new GT in ANY color, this is what I'd want for a street car.....but blue/white stripes is certainly one of the more 'classic' combos.
Comments
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=106434/pageId=64751
You swapped the sonata and accord performance numbers. not a big deal and an easy fix...
We already fixed everything except the weight (it's too high on the Accord), and that should be fixed in the next 30 minutes. Sorry about that.
Any general reactions to the test? Hyundai beating Toyota and Honda...
No
Now the big question is when will the general public accept these results? I'm already hearing people say that it was unfair because you put a V6 against their 4 cyl cars, even though it fit your pricing criteria, the Honda and Toyota loyalists are crying foul.
It's a CAR (not a motorcycle) built after 1999.
no, it isn't a sedan
Is it a convertible? No
Roadster? No
Is the vehicle still in production? Yes
Is it a German make? No
Two questions...first, is it a Japanese make?
2nd, what is the significance of saying built after 1999 (why did you pick that year)? Or would that give it away (say, if it was a MY2000)? You can just share after we guess in that case.
But I'd like to add, that if it is, I hope it has Z51. A Z06 is also acceptable. And no automatics.
Yes!!
Yes
No
2nd, what is the significance of saying built after 1999 (why did you pick that year)? Or would that give it away (say, if it was a MY2000)? You can just share after we guess in that case.
I just wanted people to know it was a relatively modern car, not some weird old muscle car or something else I might have a penchant for buying, but would be hard to figure out. I could have easily said it was built after 2000, or 2001.
No
But I'd like to add, that if it is, I hope it has Z51. A Z06 is also acceptable. And no automatics.
LOL
It is NOT an automatic.
The Hyundai is a good, improved car, but doesn't hold a candle to the Toyota or Honda makes.
Yes
No (not a Chrysler product)
No
It was built after 1999.
It's not a sedan.
It's not a convertible.
It's a "toy"
It's not a roadster
It's still in production.
It's not from German.
It's not Japanese.
It IS American.
It does increase grin factor on Mulholland Drive.
It's not a Corvette.
It's not automatic.
It IS RWD.
It's not from Chrysler.
It's not a Mustang GT.
I have one more question before I guess - Is the horsepower rating under 300?
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Is the horsepower rating under 300?
No
No
Michael is correct. In the next two weeks I take delivery of a Ford GT.
Quick background:
I called my Ford contacts less than 24 hours after this car was annouced for production...in February 2002. At the time I didn't know how I would afford it (at the time they hadn't even announced production). But I figured I would have a few years to figure it out. Certainly I didn't want to be able to afford it years later and never have called to be put "on the list."
I could write a book about the journey, from being told I was on the list, to being told I might not be on the list, to finally being assured I was indeed on the list (signed off by Nick Scheele and everything).
Obviously I'm super excited. Oh, and in terms of affording it? Let's just say the stupid-crazy real estate market in California has been kind to me. And no, I'm not blowing everything I have on this car. I still have a few dollars left for those other minor details in life (college fund for kids, retirement, blah-blah).
Thanks for playing everyone. Happy to take questions, comments, or reproachements for my purchase decision.
Wow! Definitely a toy and definitely achieves a very high grin factor.
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Sonata mpg of approx. 20 is cetainly not something to write home about (as point of comparison, Accord V6 was tested at 26mpg in Edmunds test of 2003 model). But the price difference in MSRP between the Sonata GLS ($20,895) and Accord EX-V6 ($26,850) is nearly $6k.
Even at $3.00/gal for regular unleaded, that's 2000 gallons. Driving 12,000 miles per year, the Sonata would consume 600 gallons and the Accord V6 would consume approx. 450 gallons (150 gallons difference). For the $6k price difference, that's the equivalent of over 13 years worth of additional gas for the Hyundai.
"The Hyundai is a good, improved car, but doesn't hold a candle to the Toyota or Honda makes.
Unless you've actually DRIVEN each of the 3 makes (and I certainly haven't), I don't know how one can make this statement unless you're are simply biased against Hyundai (and this comes from the owner of an '05 Ody EX-L)
I actually avoided checking with my insurance company because I was afraid of the answer, but I finally broke down a few weeks ago and called them.
Annual premium from USAA (a great insurance company that I've been a member of for 20 years now) -- $1,140. Yes, that's less than $100 a month -- for full coverage and with annual mileage of 5,000. I do have a great driving record and all, but I was shocked. I was prepared for anything between $2K and $5K a year.
To be followed immediately thereafter by a 2-week road trip. We'll expect to hear back from you by the middle of August at the earliest.
You know, central Texas is TERRIFIC in early August. I'm thinking specifically of a DE event on the 3.9 mile road course at Texas World Speedway on August 6-7. I'd be more than happy to show you the 'proper' line.....
So bottom line - I might enjoy a Sonata as a rental car over a Camry for a week, but I wouldn't buy it.
Those would qualify, no?
Your analysis for fuel costs and overall value are right on. And trust me, I have driven all three, and the Sonata is simply an amazing value! I know it will take years to convince the Honda/Toyota loyalist to even consider a Hyundai, but then again, it took years for Honda and Toyota to make the average American consider them over Chevry, Chrysler or Ford.
All I can say is -- watch out Japanese automakers. Don't let your current market strength blind you. That's what the domestics were doing in the early 1970s...
I agree - some of the posts I see here at edmunds in the "Has Honda's run - run out" thread, could have come straight from a GM exec back in 1978....
I've seen one GT so far, in CT. I believe it was blue with white stripes. What is yours? Oh, and I think you guys will have to run the battery of performance tests on it.
Those would qualify, no?
No longer in production, discontinued as of 2002.
I was going to guess that sooner or later, all the stipulations you gave didn't leave many possible cars. Didn't think you'd go for an exotic! My intial guess was believe it or not Cobalt SS, but I remembered it's FWD.
If I were you, I would have waited for the upcoming 2007 Ford Shelby GT500. It's one of the coolest looking cars out there, better looking than the GT IMO. It's got an affordable price tag, about $40K or so. The interior is gorgeous, one of the best I've seen in any Ford. It's also got 450hp to boot, and a sub 5 second 0-60 time. It also shares a few parts with the GT, I hear. But each to his own.
Now a few questions.
How much did it cost, if you don't mind me asking? And how often do you plan to drive it, and to where? What color is it?
Will you be doing a first drive/full test of the Ford GT anytime soon?
Did you see Car and Driver's "Lords of Envy" comparison test? The Ford took a respectable 3rd, beat only by the Gallardo and F430. It beat a 911 Turbo S, SL65 AMG and DB9. That's pretty impressive, all for $157K.
This sort of situation was obviously considered by me, but the problem with our long-term cars is everyone gets to drive them. For long-term reporting, that's good (multiple perspectives always result in more accurate reporting), but for an exotic car that I've been dreaming about my whole life, that's bad. I didn't really relish the idea of 12-plus people rotating through the driver's seat on any given day...
As is, even though I bought the car myself, I'll still end up using it for Edmunds/Inside Line benefit where possible. I'm thinking of doing a monthly long-term report/logbook type thing, just because that would be unique material on the Ford GT. And it will likely end up in Edmunds.com booths at various events (SEMA, etc.), plus any promotional video shoots we do for the site, etc.
Obviously the company has been good to me, so returning the favor is the least I can do. BTW, on Friday I hit my official 7-year anniversary with Edmunds.com (July 15, 1998 was my first day).
I cannot believe that I was right ... my guess was truly meant for humor and nothing more.
I hear ya about the SoCal real estate market. Sister and BIL have a house near San Diego they bought < 2 years ago for $500K -- now worth north of $900K.
So I can totally understand how you can buy a $150K sports car and still have enough left over for college fund, mac and cheese, ramen noodles, insurance and gas.
Please don't tell us you'll be driving this on the 405 ... that it will be trailered to Willow Springs or some other track that is relatively close to LA and driven in proper conditions.
EDIT: I'm going to be in SoCal in August to visit family. Since I guessed right, do I get a ride?
Mine will be dark blue with full stripes. I agonized on the color for a looong time. First it was yellow (the color of the original concept car), then white, then red. But all my Ford contacts kept telling me "blue-blue-blue" and I figured they'd know better than anyone. Dark blue is actually one of my favorite colors anyway, but I felt the GT's was a bit too dark, thus hiding all the beautiful lines. But I finally saw a blue one in person and it was like, "Oh, this is the only color to get."
Close to half the ones built so far are red, so I'm glad I didn't go with that color. It looks beautiful in red, but red ones are going to be everywhere.
I also own SoCal real estate that has appreciated wildly in value. So, how do I explain to my wife how wonderful it would be for me to have a Ford GT?
Who says I'm not already on the list for the GT500...
I certainly agree with everything you've said about that one, especially the interior. I sat in it for the first time last week. It's like Audi got ahold of a Mustang...
How much did it cost, if you don't mind me asking? And how often do you plan to drive it, and to where? What color is it?
I'm paying MSRP (a personal rule I don't break...unless I can get something for less than MSRP). I would like to drive it approximately once a week. With my commute that's about 100 miles total, most of which are on PCH (not a bad route for this car). It's blue with stripes.
Will you be doing a first drive/full test of the Ford GT anytime soon?
We've got several stories on the Ford GT, but no actual Full Test with our own performance numbers, so probably -- after it is broken in of course.
BTW, I was at the GT plant(s) three weeks ago to do a story on "Building a Ford GT" which should run in the next two weeks. I've already written it and organized the photos, and it is going to be cool! And of course we scheduled the story so I would be at the plant when "my" car was being built. I have pictures of me standing next to it, about 80% done. It was painted and most of the body panels were on, but no drivetrain or interior. It was very fun!
http://www.erareplicas.com/cars/holden/index.htm
If I could have a new GT in ANY color, this is what I'd want for a street car.....but blue/white stripes is certainly one of the more 'classic' combos.
Enjoy.