No written price quote even as an E-mail? Boy, that would send up a red flag with me. I have been burned by dealers before who gave me a verbal price quote only to change it a few hours later when I showed up to buy. I'm sure there are bozos out there who grind for every penny, but where does that leave us straight shooters who just don't want the games?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
While minor negotiation is sometimes possible on appliances and electronics, the simple fact is that when I walk into Best Buy, there is a posted price on every item. That number represents the maximum I have to pay to purchase the item.
With vehicles, everything involved in the transaction is negotiable. What I hate is the idea that a dealer will make me wait (and wait and wait) to get an answer to simple questions such as: "What's your bottom line on this today?" or "Will you sell this car for $24,000?"
The buying experience that pushed me away from conventional sales happened with a '96 Chrysler Town and Country. It was a high demand model for most of that year. An ambitious local guy had just bought a Chrysler store and, apparently to quickly boost sales, ran a BIG ad saying all such models were being offered at $4000 off MSRP. If true, this was a truly great deal.
I got there 20 minutes before they opened and found 3 suitable units, all with the same equipment and MSRP. When the salesman approached me, I immediately pointed to the MSRP and asked if he'd sell for $4000 less than the posted number like the ad said. He wasn't sure, he'd have to check. Into the building we go. More runaround. I walk out. They chase me outside and finally agree to honor the ad. That took maybe 20 minutes. Financing took maybe 15 minutes. Yet I didn't get out there for almost 5 hours.
I've never had any such crap happen with the internet vehicle purchases I've made since.
I get generic emails all teh time asking for a price quote on A camry or A 4runner and I reply with an email asking what options and color they want so that I can find an exact car rather than some imaganary car that does not exist. 70% of the time I get no response at all. I will not give a quote unless I have comminucated with that person and know that i have a car that they want in stock or availabe from the pipeline.
I also suspect that the only reason that other buyers ask for prices is to keep the delaer they want to buy from honest, even though I have been told that my price was the lowest they bought fromthe other dealer because they where there.
ISell: no matter what your own way of dealing with customers is, you are stuck with the stereotypes that have been re-enforced by your own peers: Talk is cheap! You refusal to give up the numbers may still get first time online buyers but no experienced internet shopper is going to take you seriously.
Frankly, vehicles are pure commodities and aside from buyer proximity to the dealership there is nothing to keep an Internet shopper loyal to any dealership. Once one expands the search to 200, 400, 600 or more miles, those buyers should see no difference between any of them beside the ones that are 10-20 miles from my home. Dreasdad is right about one thing: more quotes ensures that the local dealer remain "honest".
I also think that suggesting that buyer knows nothing is as dumb as suggesting that all salespeople know much about their product or the marketplace is far from the truth. You could easily say: I have a top end unit with MSRP of $X and I sell it for $Y, entry level one.... etc.
I agree with what has already been said: I often give a VIN or describe the exact vehicle I want (like plain Pilot EXL in X color) but the dork on the other side keeps wanting to talk to me and make sure I "understand" all my choices of which there are very few. I know you said it is an attempt to create a "relationship" with me, frankly it just annoys me because it wastes my valuable time. The reason it is better for the seller to move things out of the internet space is "measure up" the customer.
Bottom line: this crap may have worked in pre-Internet times but IMHO it is not a logical way to conduct business today.
The easiest way to show the dealership you are a serious buyer is to make an offer and have your checkbook out.
That will be hard to do in front of a computer monitor. And most seasoned negotiators will advise against throwing out the first number. Remember our old buddy socala4, and his brother pch101?
Since it is apparent most salesmen don't like playing the "Ask 100 questions" with the uninformed buyer,the internet car buyer can maximize his slim chances of getting a price quote by including all necessary information, including the vin #, after visiting a couple dealerships. For copyright purposes... let's call this the "Jipst Method" of internet car buying. Now I can start collecting those big royalty checks like you bob.
"The easiest way to show the dealership you are a serious buyer is to make an offer and have your checkbook out."
That only applies when the dealer has exactly the vehicle you desire. When I bought my '02 Dakota, I wanted certain "core" options. No dealer in a reasonable distance had such a vehicle.
I requested quotes via the Dodge website. Out of about 5 local dealers, only 3 responded.
One was the total generic response of "C'mon in, let's see what we can do!"
Another dealer called me up and asked "How does $20,000 sound?" Great, but the truck they're trying to sell has NONE of the options I asked for...
The 3rd dealer told me what I already knew: special order. I ended up buying from him.
The second dealer still calls me and leaves e-mails to this day.
The dealer I bought from told me that not all of the info I left on the Dodge website actually makes it to the dealer. Obviously, your contact information makes it, but not the part about the exact vehicle you really want to buy...
For Isellhondas, I for one, would buy a Honda from you in a minute, if only I lived in your area, and wanted a Honda. That said, I'll never leave personal contact info in a case like this, unless you can reply to my e-mail in such a way that I trust you not to abuse the info, like my second dealer example. Thanks. And really, you seem like just the kind of person I'd like to deal with.
I recently had horrible luck online shopping. 10 or 12 quote requests for 3 different vehicles and NOBODY could be bothered to respond whether submitted through Edmunds, corporate or dealer web sites. Completely unprofessional on the part of the dealers and guaranteed I would not do business with any of them. However, what I DID do is to visit them in person, waste their time test driving vehicles and leave the showroom with no intention of buying from them despite the fact I was a serious buyer of the vehicles I was test driving.
They lost their chance at my business when they wasted my time and demonstrated a lack of professionalism. Cars are a commodity, and there is no need to put up with such amateurism.
Disgusted, I ended up going to a farther away dealer in person I had not previously solicited for a quote over the internet, gave the salesperson the particulars in person and negotiated via email via email for the next week and had an excellent experience overall.
I hadn't read this forum in months, and catching up a bit here this morning it is evident that I didn't miss anything...
We've still got ISellHondas here saying he really is "too busy for OnLine Shoppers" who actually want to shop online,
While most people here still agree that if you can't get a quote online, then you are not really online shopping as price is an important part of the shopping process.
ISell, if I sent you an internet request saying "I'd like a quote on an 07 Accord EX-V6 coupe with a stick shift," what is there that would need a phone call to clarify? Many internet requests likely include that much info. Why couldn't (or wouldn't) you just send a response saying "as you may know leather is standard with the EX-V6 for just $xx,xxx however if you want Naviagtion add x,xxx"? It's simple.
My experience: showing up only switches a buyer from online to walkup. :mad: Walkup treatment is not that great: it often assumes that the buyer is actually an uninformed moron! :confuse:
Many buyers many not want to give up sex, race, and other similar information that could be a huge detriment for some.
Jip, for your method to be as famous as mine, you gotta make it super simple like I do. For the people who need a refresher, here's my method:
1) Decide what car you want. 2) Decide what you will pay. 3) Find a dealer who has that car you want. 4) Go to the dealer and make an offer. 5) If they accept, pay for the car and drive it home. 6) If your offer is refused, go back to step 2 and reconsider your offer.
If you can describe your method as eloquently as I have, maybe we could write a joint paper for some prestigous journal.
Recently had a few questions to ask about a few cars, so I fired off some emails from gmbuypower and dodge and toyota, asking specific questions.
Got ZERO response from all three.
Went into the Chevy dealer internet department to ask the same question (can you get an Uplander with 8-passenger seating instead of 7) and got the answer I needed (no), but they had no record of receiving my internet query.
Went into the Dodge dealer to ask the same question (can you get an 8-passenger Caravan) and got straight answers and they told me they ignore internet questions without a telephone contact #.
Went to the Toyota dealer to inquire about 8-passenger Siennas, got the answer I needed (they are few and far between), and they told me they don't HAVE an internet department, which is funny, because they sure do on their website!
I guess I'll just have to stick to calling and visiting dealers to get my questions answered.
That and with the Astro/Safari gone and the Venture redesigned, minivans just don't come in 8-passengers anymore except for the Sienna, so it's either that or a big honkin' Suburban/Expedition.
for your method to be as famous as mine, you gotta make it super simple like I do.
Well, I do want to be famous like you. But, the only difference I see between your method in car buying summary and mine... is that you have your steps numbered. If that is what it takes to get our paper into that prestigious journal the scholarly tidester was talking about, well then, here it is.
The Jipst Method of Internet Car Buying
1) Decide what car you want. But, be somewhat flexible when it comes to options. 2) Go to a couple dealerships that sell this car. Write down all necessary information about each car you like(model, options, color, MSRP, Vin #, dealership model # if listed) 3) When a salesman comes out to greet you, give him your name and ask for his business card. 4) Go home. Get something to eat. Figure out how much you want to pay for each vehicle you obtained information from. 5) E-mail the salesman who's business card you obtained. Ask for a price quote supplying all necessary information, making it crystal clear you are ready to buy, but only through e-mail negotiation. 6) Negotiate until your price is met. If given the run around,tell salesmen you are now going to get a quote from another dealership. When your price is met... buy.
Now, the above is summarized so eloquently and fancy... I'm sure the Tidester must be in tears.
But, a reminder to all. The above is a patented method in how to maximize your chance in getting and obtaining an internet price quote worthy of purchase. If you're gonna be lazy about it, and just send out e-mails from your home computer without taking the necessary steps outlined above,then your odds of being a successful internet car shopper drops dramatically. :shades:
I am going to say this one final time. I apologize if I haven't been clear.
I WILL BE HAPPY to give you a quote but you will have to CALL ME! If you don't trust me and think I will change the numbers when you get here,you are probably a customer I wouldn't want in the first place. I have never misquoted a customer.
No hassles, no intense questioning from me. Just a verification of what you are looking for and a PRICE QUOTE...Quick and easy!
Jipster, please don't respond. I have been using my scroll wheel on your posts for quite some time now.
Jipster, please don't respond. I have been using my scroll wheel on your posts for quite some time now.
LOL. You mean you haven't used the scroll wheel in the 3 days since you last responded to one of my posts(i.e #446, Dec. 14)
I know you enjoy informing the rest of the Edmunds community about how you shun my posts. But, I have been civil in my replies to you and have put the past between us in the past. Why can't you be a man about it and do the same thing?
Use the scroll wheel all you want. But, I will reply to whomever I want to.
Not surprising. You get 100 requests for a price quote and weed out the 95 who won't play the game the way you want it to be played, then of course you'll have a high close rate.
Sure it works for you and the 5% of customers you decide to work with. Unfortunately, for the other 95%, their time is wasted.
If I get 100 leads and I "weed out" 95% and only work with 5%, assuming I sell every one of that 5%, I would have a 5% close rate! That is NOT a high close rate!
Actually, I get very few people who won't pick up the phone and talk to me. Out of 100 leads, I may get two or three who dig their heels in and refuse to do business with anyone who won't give them a quote in writing.
On close rates, from what I understand you "weed out" those requests that you feel would be a waste of time. Doesn't seem these should count as a lead when discussing close rates... only those you respond to. So, by using selective methods in responding to leads.. your close rate will be higher. Now, if you tell me your close rate is still the highest without the "weeding out", well... I would say that's pretty good.
That only two or three, out of 100, dig in their heels and refuse to do business when not given a quote is surprising. I thought it would be higher.
Personally, I would have no problem picking up the phone and talking to the salesperson about a price quote. It would be an easier than going in person, but not as easy as doing it solely via the internet... which is what a lot of people want.
Why can't you move on with this jipster? Isell has already stated that he doesn't use the internet in negotiations as we think a true internet department would. There's nothing wrong with that. Is he behind the times? Dunno, maybe, but it works for him.
Note to Isell, no need to defend yourself on this issue.
One thing I am curious about though is, would I get a different price using the true internet method versus walking in off the street? I'd expect to be able to get the same deal, but in the past I've got different responses from dealers.
You raise an interesting question, mikefm58. In theory (because there's less dealer time involved), an internet price should just about always be less. In actual practice, I'm not so sure - like most everything else about car sales, it seems to depend on circumstances.
I think this is one of the rare times I actually agree with the car salesman. (a little) I don't think I would give my absolute best price to someone who wrote: "Hi my name is Shasta and I want your best price on a new Accord". I am sure they get hundreds of these requests. I have had very good luck by giving the dealer my name, number and tell them exactly what I think I want. My only problem is usually I get the "why don't you come down to talk to us and I am sure we have something you want". I always politely tell them that I need a OTD quote and I do not plan of stepping foot in a dealership until I come to sign the papers. I make it very clear I am trying to get the best price I can get and I am sure they are smart enough to know that they are not the only one I am talking to. I find most will usually give me a good quote once they talk to me. I respect Isell on here but he would have to talk pretty fast to get me buy a car from him if he would not give me a written quote. I understand why he does not want to but I have been burned a couple of times. Once, many years ago, I even got a police escort out of a dealership after they told me a price, then completely lied about after I took the day off work and drove almost three hours.
Mike, I think you need to read my posts a little more carefully, or use the scroll wheel if what you are reading is upsetting you.
In response to you question of getting a better price using the internet quote or walking in off the street. It depends. If you are easily fooled or manipulated, then you probably don't want to be walking in off the street. You seem to want to avoid conflict, so I would suggest using the "true internet method" to get the best price. But, I wouldn't hold my breath on getting that price quote.
I don't "weed" anyone out. I respond to every lead that comes in. If they give me a phone number as most do, I'll call them. If they only give me an email address, I will email them asking them to please give me a call.
Most of the non serious ones are the ones that don't give me a phone number. My close rate includes everything that comes in good or bad.
"If they give me a phone number as most do, I'll call them. If they only give me an email address, I will email them asking them to please give me a call."
So my question to you is - What is it that qualifies your "internet department" as an internet department? It sounds like the customers that express interest in buying a car, or getting a quote via the internet, either receive a call from you, or are asked to call you. This method would be no different than a shopper that calls in to the dealership, and asks for a quote.
I guess you are referring to customers you talk to from the leads you get via the internet as "internet customers" (even though they can't buy a car over the internet) - whereas I view an internet customer as a customer that can pretty much do the whole deal (except final paperwork) via the internet, and view a true internet department as working "behind the scenes".
If a customer comes through one of the lead providers, that counts as an "internet lead". If they call and ask for the Internet Department, that counts too.
If thye just walk in or make a general call.." I saw one of your used cars on your website, I would like to see it".
That does not count.
Some people come to me because they just want a stress free, straightforward deal with a minimum of hassle. Others come because they think they can get a better deal.
It is hard for me to seperate which sales are made strictly because of our internet presence.
P.S. I'm less cranky today since our power has finally been restored after four COLD DARK days!
I know I may have come across as bashing you (your methods), I just now realize we have 2 opposite definitions of what an internet department is. I have seen dealerships in my area where you can negotiate the price via email, apply for financing through their website, and pretty much do everything before stepping foot into the dealership to take the test drive, inspect the vehicle, and do the paperwork.
Oh, I have read your posts carefully and you keep repeating yourself. But I'll admit, it is amusing. Avoid conflict and being easily upset? Not me. Do you label all followers of the Bobst method like that?
What would you say if someone emailed you along the lines of... "Just saw (specific vehicle) on the website, I've done my research and would like to offer $xx,xxx OTD" (say, Edmunds TMV minus 10%).
Would you have to tell them "yes" or "no" over the phone? Or would you be able to conduct business that way over the internet?
Trouble is, that is almost like giving them a quote. They tell me they want a no hassle, straightforward deal then, knowing they have a number that will work for me, they go to work pitting that number against other stores. There is no limit to what people will do in a frantic attempt to save a buck.
Three times last month, I had people email me asking for a quote who told me they were deaf! " I can't talk on the phone, you will have to email me your price"
Pretty creative I have to say! I emailed them back suggesting they have a non hearing impaired friend call me instead.
Most sales people prefer the customer to do the test drive first. Yet, you insist on working out the price first... interesting. I think for most people they would feel pressured to buy the vehicle, if they discovered they didn't like the way the vehicle drove etc. It usually takes longer to work out numbers than to do a test drive.
There is no limit to what people will do in a frantic attempt to save a buck.
ISell, how do you like the statement: There is no limit to what stealerships will do in a frantic attempt to squeeze a buck! Buying a vehicle does NOT "save a buck"! Consumers have the right to shop any information they want, this is a free country. Do you hate the market forces? Do you perform price discovery when you shop and are you perfectly price-informed for everything you buy? Do you like having competition when you are shopping for something yourself?
Here is counter argument to your point: If your price/deal was good enough, they would all be coming back! Theoretically, you should set your price such that [price-cost]*quantity is maximized but you try to have a "moving" price so that you can vary profit for every deal. When you misjudge the degree to which consumer is informed, they walk on you!
We would not be having this discussion if customers would just go to the car dealer to do buisness instead of trying to over the internet. It confounds me why a person would make major purchase like an auto and not want to go to the dealer.
There is no limit to what stealerships will do in a frantic attempt to squeeze a buck!
I think that is inordinately provocative. "Dealership" or "salesperson" would have made your point Of course, the original There is no limit to what people will do in a frantic attempt to save a buck. to which you replied is only marginally better and the point would have been better made using "some people" instead.
In any case, can we all just dispense with the provocations, incendiary rhetoric and grotesque generalizations? The hosts don't really like playing Whack-a-Mole especially during the holidays.
"It confounds me why a person would make major purchase like an auto and not want to go to the dealer"
I have never bought a car over the internet, but I have friends who have. One friend, is a "techie" that works LONG hours.
When it comes time for him to purchase a car, he researches the models he is interested at on-line, and can pretty much tell you anything about the car by the time he narrows it down to 1 particular model. Then, he will make contact with a local dealer (via the net), and will work out a price via email, and typically lines up his own financing through his bank's website, and will also apply for dealer financing on the dealer's website (and will tell the dealer they are welcome to try to beat his bank's rate).
Once all of this is in place, and he is satisfied, he will make an appointment to go by the dealership to drive/inspect the car and finalize the paperwork.
The beauty of this is that for most of his research and negotiation stages he can do while he is at work, in between other things he is doing. He doesn't have to take time off work, or spend any more of his limited free time at the dealer than is absolutely neccessary.
Now personally, I like to buy cars in person - I have a lot of flexibility to my job, and a lot of free time (plus, you can get some really good "war stories" this way - LOL). I use to think the same as you, and wondered how anyone could buy a $20,000 - $30,000 purchase over the internet, but after seeing how well his method works for him, I now realize.
It confounds me why a person would make major purchase like an auto and not want to go to the dealer
I also have a co-worker who works loooong hours who has wasted much time in the past calling dealers asking if they have a particular model with certain options and being told, sure come on down, only to get there and they say, now what were you looking for? Then they find out they have nothing close. Some dealerships will tell the customer anything to get them in the show room.
There last car purchase was worked entirely over the net. All they had to do was make an appointment for the final test drive, sign the papers, and hand over the check.
Comments
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
With vehicles, everything involved in the transaction is negotiable. What I hate is the idea that a dealer will make me wait (and wait and wait) to get an answer to simple questions such as: "What's your bottom line on this today?"
or "Will you sell this car for $24,000?"
The buying experience that pushed me away from conventional sales happened with a '96 Chrysler Town and Country. It was a high demand model for most of that year. An ambitious local guy had just bought a Chrysler store and, apparently to quickly boost sales, ran a BIG ad saying all such models were being offered at $4000 off MSRP. If true, this was a truly great deal.
I got there 20 minutes before they opened and found 3 suitable units, all with the same equipment and MSRP. When the salesman approached me, I immediately pointed to the MSRP and asked if he'd sell for $4000 less than the posted number like the ad said. He wasn't sure, he'd have to check. Into the building we go. More runaround. I walk out. They chase me outside and finally agree to honor the ad. That took maybe 20 minutes. Financing took maybe 15 minutes. Yet I didn't get out there for almost 5 hours.
I've never had any such crap happen with the internet vehicle purchases I've made since.
I will not give a quote unless I have comminucated with that person and know that i have a car that they want in stock or availabe from the pipeline.
I also suspect that the only reason that other buyers ask for prices is to keep the delaer they want to buy from honest, even though I have been told that my price was the lowest they bought fromthe other dealer because they where there.
Frankly, vehicles are pure commodities and aside from buyer proximity to the dealership there is nothing to keep an Internet shopper loyal to any dealership. Once one expands the search to 200, 400, 600 or more miles, those buyers should see no difference between any of them beside the ones that are 10-20 miles from my home. Dreasdad is right about one thing: more quotes ensures that the local dealer remain "honest".
I also think that suggesting that buyer knows nothing is as dumb as suggesting that all salespeople know much about their product or the marketplace is far from the truth. You could easily say: I have a top end unit with MSRP of $X and I sell it for $Y, entry level one.... etc.
I agree with what has already been said: I often give a VIN or describe the exact vehicle I want (like plain Pilot EXL in X color) but the dork on the other side keeps wanting to talk to me and make sure I "understand" all my choices of which there are very few. I know you said it is an attempt to create a "relationship" with me, frankly it just annoys me because it wastes my valuable time. The reason it is better for the seller to move things out of the internet space is "measure up" the customer.
Bottom line: this crap may have worked in pre-Internet times but IMHO it is not a logical way to conduct business today.
The easiest way to show the dealership you are a serious buyer is to make an offer and have your checkbook out.
That will be hard to do in front of a computer monitor. And most seasoned negotiators will advise against throwing out the first number. Remember our old buddy socala4, and his brother pch101?
Since it is apparent most salesmen don't like playing the "Ask 100 questions" with the uninformed buyer,the internet car buyer can maximize his slim chances of getting a price quote by including all necessary information, including the vin #, after visiting a couple dealerships. For copyright purposes... let's call this the "Jipst Method" of internet car buying. Now I can start collecting those big royalty checks like you bob.
That only applies when the dealer has exactly the vehicle you desire. When I bought my '02 Dakota, I wanted certain "core" options. No dealer in a reasonable distance had such a vehicle.
I requested quotes via the Dodge website. Out of about 5 local dealers, only 3 responded.
One was the total generic response of "C'mon in, let's see what we can do!"
Another dealer called me up and asked "How does $20,000 sound?" Great, but the truck they're trying to sell has NONE of the options I asked for...
The 3rd dealer told me what I already knew: special order.
I ended up buying from him.
The second dealer still calls me and leaves e-mails to this day.
The dealer I bought from told me that not all of the info I left on the Dodge website actually makes it to the dealer. Obviously, your contact information makes it, but not the part about the exact vehicle you really want to buy...
For Isellhondas, I for one, would buy a Honda from you in a minute, if only I lived in your area, and wanted a Honda. That said, I'll never leave personal contact info in a case like this, unless you can reply to my e-mail in such a way that I trust you not to abuse the info, like my second dealer example.
Thanks.
And really, you seem like just the kind of person I'd like to deal with.
They lost their chance at my business when they wasted my time and demonstrated a lack of professionalism. Cars are a commodity, and there is no need to put up with such amateurism.
Disgusted, I ended up going to a farther away dealer in person I had not previously solicited for a quote over the internet, gave the salesperson the particulars in person and negotiated via email via email for the next week and had an excellent experience overall.
We've still got ISellHondas here saying he really is "too busy for OnLine Shoppers" who actually want to shop online,
While most people here still agree that if you can't get a quote online, then you are not really online shopping as price is an important part of the shopping process.
ISell, if I sent you an internet request saying "I'd like a quote on an 07 Accord EX-V6 coupe with a stick shift," what is there that would need a phone call to clarify? Many internet requests likely include that much info. Why couldn't (or wouldn't) you just send a response saying "as you may know leather is standard with the EX-V6 for just $xx,xxx however if you want Naviagtion add x,xxx"? It's simple.
Many buyers many not want to give up sex, race, and other similar information that could be a huge detriment for some.
Why does it matter what the sales person assumes about me?
I think all the sales people care about is my money. If I give them enough of it, they give me a car.
1) Decide what car you want.
2) Decide what you will pay.
3) Find a dealer who has that car you want.
4) Go to the dealer and make an offer.
5) If they accept, pay for the car and drive it home.
6) If your offer is refused, go back to step 2 and reconsider your offer.
If you can describe your method as eloquently as I have, maybe we could write a joint paper for some prestigous journal.
Bob
Or go to step 3 and 4 for a different dealer.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The main thing is to have a plan and stick to it. Some of us can't think too well on the spur of the moment.
With a definite plan, a buyer has much more chance of enjoying the car buying experience and getting the car they want for a reasonable price.
I think this one may be suitable: Journal of Irreproducible Results
tidester, host
Besides, our results are very reproducable. Anyone with money can use our methods and enjoy getting a good deal.
Maybe you will soon be seeing my method as a prize in a Cracker Jack box.
Got ZERO response from all three.
Went into the Chevy dealer internet department to ask the same question (can you get an Uplander with 8-passenger seating instead of 7) and got the answer I needed (no), but they had no record of receiving my internet query.
Went into the Dodge dealer to ask the same question (can you get an 8-passenger Caravan) and got straight answers and they told me they ignore internet questions without a telephone contact #.
Went to the Toyota dealer to inquire about 8-passenger Siennas, got the answer I needed (they are few and far between), and they told me they don't HAVE an internet department, which is funny, because they sure do on their website!
I guess I'll just have to stick to calling and visiting dealers to get my questions answered.
That and with the Astro/Safari gone and the Venture redesigned, minivans just don't come in 8-passengers anymore except for the Sienna, so it's either that or a big honkin' Suburban/Expedition.
Hey, I've seen it right here. That's prize enough for me!
Seriously, though, I do pretty much the same thing.
tidester, host
Well, I do want to be famous like you. But, the only difference I see between your method in car buying summary and mine... is that you have your steps numbered. If that is what it takes to get our paper into that prestigious journal the scholarly tidester was talking about, well then, here it is.
The Jipst Method of Internet Car Buying
1) Decide what car you want. But, be somewhat flexible when it comes to options.
2) Go to a couple dealerships that sell this car. Write down all necessary information about each car you like(model, options, color, MSRP, Vin #, dealership model # if listed)
3) When a salesman comes out to greet you, give him your name and ask for his business card.
4) Go home. Get something to eat. Figure out how much you want to pay for each vehicle you obtained information from.
5) E-mail the salesman who's business card you obtained. Ask for a price quote supplying all necessary information, making it crystal clear you are ready to buy, but only through e-mail negotiation.
6) Negotiate until your price is met. If given the run around,tell salesmen you are now going to get a quote from another dealership. When your price is met... buy.
Now, the above is summarized so eloquently and fancy... I'm sure the Tidester must be in tears.
But, a reminder to all. The above is a patented method in how to maximize your chance in getting and obtaining an internet price quote worthy of purchase. If you're gonna be lazy about it, and just send out e-mails from your home computer without taking the necessary steps outlined above,then your odds of being a successful internet car shopper drops dramatically. :shades:
I WILL BE HAPPY to give you a quote but you will have to CALL ME! If you don't trust me and think I will change the numbers when you get here,you are probably a customer I wouldn't want in the first place. I have never misquoted a customer.
No hassles, no intense questioning from me. Just a verification of what you are looking for and a PRICE QUOTE...Quick and easy!
Jipster, please don't respond. I have been using my scroll wheel on your posts for quite some time now.
LOL. You mean you haven't used the scroll wheel in the 3 days since you last responded to one of my posts(i.e #446, Dec. 14)
I know you enjoy informing the rest of the Edmunds community about how you shun my posts. But, I have been civil in my replies to you and have put the past between us in the past. Why can't you be a man about it and do the same thing?
Use the scroll wheel all you want. But, I will reply to whomever I want to.
When I ask for an internet quote on a car (especially a Honda since it doesn't have an array of confusing options), I
DON'T WANT TO TALK TO A SALESMAN. Period. I want a price.
As other posts here have illustrated, those that disregard this are turning aside sales.
You guys can engage in your scroll wheel duels all you want but please spare us the blow by blow account of it in the Forums.
Thanks.
tidester, host
If you don't want to call me to see if I can beat your best bid, that's fine. I realize I lose a few sales this way.
The gains FAR exceed the losses however and my long term successes bear this out.
Not surprising. You get 100 requests for a price quote and weed out the 95 who won't play the game the way you want it to be played, then of course you'll have a high close rate.
Sure it works for you and the 5% of customers you decide to work with. Unfortunately, for the other 95%, their time is wasted.
Stop and think about what you just posted.
If I get 100 leads and I "weed out" 95% and only work with 5%, assuming I sell every one of that 5%, I would have a 5% close rate! That is NOT a high close rate!
Actually, I get very few people who won't pick up the phone and talk to me. Out of 100 leads, I may get two or three who dig their heels in and refuse to do business with anyone who won't give them a quote in writing.
Doubtful.
On close rates, from what I understand you "weed out" those requests that you feel would be a waste of time. Doesn't seem these should count as a lead when discussing close rates... only those you respond to. So, by using selective methods in responding to leads.. your close rate will be higher. Now, if you tell me your close rate is still the highest without the "weeding out", well... I would say that's pretty good.
That only two or three, out of 100, dig in their heels and
refuse to do business when not given a quote is surprising. I thought it would be higher.
Personally, I would have no problem picking up the phone and talking to the salesperson about a price quote. It would be an easier than going in person, but not as easy as doing it solely via the internet... which is what a lot of people want.
Note to Isell, no need to defend yourself on this issue.
One thing I am curious about though is, would I get a different price using the true internet method versus walking in off the street? I'd expect to be able to get the same deal, but in the past I've got different responses from dealers.
In response to you question of getting a better price using the internet quote or walking in off the street. It depends. If you are easily fooled or manipulated, then you probably don't want to be walking in off the street. You seem to want to avoid conflict, so I would suggest using the "true internet method" to get the best price. But, I wouldn't hold my breath on getting that price quote.
Most of the non serious ones are the ones that don't give me a phone number. My close rate includes everything that comes in good or bad.
So my question to you is - What is it that qualifies your "internet department" as an internet department? It sounds like the customers that express interest in buying a car, or getting a quote via the internet, either receive a call from you, or are asked to call you. This method would be no different than a shopper that calls in to the dealership, and asks for a quote.
I guess you are referring to customers you talk to from the leads you get via the internet as "internet customers" (even though they can't buy a car over the internet) - whereas I view an internet customer as a customer that can pretty much do the whole deal (except final paperwork) via the internet, and view a true internet department as working "behind the scenes".
If thye just walk in or make a general call.." I saw one of your used cars on your website, I would like to see it".
That does not count.
Some people come to me because they just want a stress free, straightforward deal with a minimum of hassle. Others come because they think they can get a better deal.
It is hard for me to seperate which sales are made strictly because of our internet presence.
P.S. I'm less cranky today since our power has finally been restored after four COLD DARK days!
I know I may have come across as bashing you (your methods), I just now realize we have 2 opposite definitions of what an internet department is. I have seen dealerships in my area where you can negotiate the price via email, apply for financing through their website, and pretty much do everything before stepping foot into the dealership to take the test drive, inspect the vehicle, and do the paperwork.
I do think that negotating a price on a car that a person hasn't seen or driven is doing things backwards.
I would hate to spend a lot of time going through the motions only to find out I don't like the car once I've driven it!
Fair enough.
On the other hand, I feel bad putting a bunch of miles on a brand new car if the dealer will not accept my offer.
I think it is more considerare to get the sales price settled before taking the car for a thorough test drive.
What would you say if someone emailed you along the lines of... "Just saw (specific vehicle) on the website, I've done my research and would like to offer $xx,xxx OTD" (say, Edmunds TMV minus 10%).
Would you have to tell them "yes" or "no" over the phone? Or would you be able to conduct business that way over the internet?
If the offer is acceptable I'll tell them that.
Trouble is, that is almost like giving them a quote. They tell me they want a no hassle, straightforward deal then, knowing they have a number that will work for me, they go to work pitting that number against other stores. There is no limit to what people will do in a frantic attempt to save a buck.
Three times last month, I had people email me asking for a quote who told me they were deaf! " I can't talk on the phone, you will have to email me your price"
Pretty creative I have to say! I emailed them back suggesting they have a non hearing impaired friend call me instead.
ISell, how do you like the statement: There is no limit to what stealerships will do in a frantic attempt to squeeze a buck! Buying a vehicle does NOT "save a buck"! Consumers have the right to shop any information they want, this is a free country. Do you hate the market forces? Do you perform price discovery when you shop and are you perfectly price-informed for everything you buy? Do you like having competition when you are shopping for something yourself?
Here is counter argument to your point: If your price/deal was good enough, they would all be coming back! Theoretically, you should set your price such that [price-cost]*quantity is maximized but you try to have a "moving" price so that you can vary profit for every deal. When you misjudge the degree to which consumer is informed, they walk on you!
I think that is inordinately provocative. "Dealership" or "salesperson" would have made your point Of course, the original There is no limit to what people will do in a frantic attempt to save a buck. to which you replied is only marginally better and the point would have been better made using "some people" instead.
In any case, can we all just dispense with the provocations, incendiary rhetoric and grotesque generalizations? The hosts don't really like playing Whack-a-Mole especially during the holidays.
tidester, host
I have never bought a car over the internet, but I have friends who have. One friend, is a "techie" that works LONG hours.
When it comes time for him to purchase a car, he researches the models he is interested at on-line, and can pretty much tell you anything about the car by the time he narrows it down to 1 particular model. Then, he will make contact with a local dealer (via the net), and will work out a price via email, and typically lines up his own financing through his bank's website, and will also apply for dealer financing on the dealer's website (and will tell the dealer they are welcome to try to beat his bank's rate).
Once all of this is in place, and he is satisfied, he will make an appointment to go by the dealership to drive/inspect the car and finalize the paperwork.
The beauty of this is that for most of his research and negotiation stages he can do while he is at work, in between other things he is doing. He doesn't have to take time off work, or spend any more of his limited free time at the dealer than is absolutely neccessary.
Now personally, I like to buy cars in person - I have a lot of flexibility to my job, and a lot of free time (plus, you can get some really good "war stories" this way - LOL). I use to think the same as you, and wondered how anyone could buy a $20,000 - $30,000 purchase over the internet, but after seeing how well his method works for him, I now realize.
I also have a co-worker who works loooong hours who has wasted much time in the past calling dealers asking if they have a particular model with certain options and being told, sure come on down, only to get there and they say, now what were you looking for? Then they find out they have nothing close. Some dealerships will tell the customer anything to get them in the show room.
There last car purchase was worked entirely over the net. All they had to do was make an appointment for the final test drive, sign the papers, and hand over the check.