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Dealers Too Busy For OnLine Shoppers

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Comments

  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    unfortunately, fact of the matter is, is that all three are generally too high. a dealer is only going to give you what he would have paid at auction, which is the true market value of your trade in. kbb, nada, and edmunds are just guides to give you an idea, but they don't cut a check for your car at that price. just some thoughts...

    -thene :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A lot of people just don't understand why we can't pay them what they "know" their trade in is worth.

    If a dealer can go to the local auction and buy those cars all day long for 8000.00, they sure aren't going to pay the 10,000 some internet site said the car is worth.
  • smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    Conversely, you can genuinely know what your trade is worth (via auction numbers/Real World Trade-in Values) and have dealers give you a number that seem suspiciously related to your pay-off, not the actual wholesale price of the car.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Assuming everything is equal. If you use auction numbers from the east coast, they may be higher or lower on the west coast. Payoff has absoultly nothing to do with a car's value.

    And, some cars are just dogs. Bad color, dog odor, 2WD in a 4WD market. Yeah, maybe the car is "worth" what they are bringing at auction but we just don't want another anchor sitting on our lot. We call the stores that sell these new and they don't want them either.

    We just cringe when some cars pull on the lot because we know what is going to happen.
  • phinneas519phinneas519 Member Posts: 113
    Hey, wait a second. Are you trying to tell me that, to a dealer, my trade-in is only worth auction price but they want me to buy their car for MSRP? :P
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    That's the way the game is played phinneas. The dealership can have a million reasons why they can't give you book trade-in, and a million more why you should be paying MSRP.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    ha!

    well you WANT excellent condition KBB value for your trade right? its not about what you WANT most time ;)

    i once had a person come in and tell me KBB said that their car was worth something like $21k (it was a 3-4 year old subaru outback wagon or something of the like). we had a trade price of $14k or so. i ran KBB and got maybe $16k, and they said i was wrong. turned out they ran their "trade-in" at retail in excellent condition to get the $21k. some people!

    -thene :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actually that is close to the truth... depending on the market value of the new vehicle. It it was a Prius 2 yrs ago or a Civic this year then yes you are right. Both the new and used vehicles are at the market.

    Now take the current Tundra which is in the last month's of this model and it's going for $3-5000 under invoice with the incentives, that's also the market price.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yup Market Price is market price.

    What I love is the people that want KBB excellent condition trade in or even private party value for their trade and then want to pay wholesale for our car.

    If you want KBB excellent for your trade in then pay KBB retail for the other car.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "Nope, never a price quote in writing. People have to call me or come in. I'll give quotes but not in writing.

    We are smarter than that! "

    So, it sounds like you guys don't truly have an internet department. It appears your internet department is just another way for a shopper to initially contact make contact with the dealer...but the customer will end up having to talk directly to a salesperson over the phone or in person in order to get a price. Just curious - when you get to the point of talking to a person on the phone (in order to offer a quote), how much personal information of theirs do you take before giving the quote?

    Don't get me wrong...I am not ripping your methods by any means - you are the sales professional, an I am sure you know better than I what works, and what doesn't. It's just, when I think of an internet department for a car dealer, I imagine being able to do everything from price negotiations, to applying for financing and getting the payment/interest rate, all before stepping foot into the dealership. I am referring to a purchase with no trade in, which obviously I wouldn't expect you to be able to put a hard # on a trde via the net.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Of course we have an internet department! The biggest volume one in nine states!

    If I put numbers in writing, they will get printed out and carried into another dealer. When people call me, I can find out what they really want. A lot of times, they have no idea. I'm happy to give prices over the phone.

    Oh, I get stubborn people who draw a line in the sand and tell me that if I don't give them a written quote they won't do business with me. I can't save these people any money if they don't give me a chance. These are people I probably don't need anyway.

    And to answer your question, I don't take any personal information over the phone.
  • abraindrainerabraindrainer Member Posts: 312
    Internet allows buyers to contact many more dealers. So many contact 20-30 (or more) dealers. Obivously they only will buy from one thus the success rates are so "poor".

    The reason that consumer do not like the nubmers over the phone is because the number often change once you come in to get the deal! No numbers no deal!

    ISellHondas: you are the one that is not giving them the chance to make a decision. Why would I spend 2-3 hours of my time just to see if your deal is for real?
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    Guess it is a vicious cycle...

    Dealer can't trust the customer to not shop his written #, and the customer can't trust the dealer to not bait and switch him with the verbal#.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    I can't save these people any money...

    LOL. One would think that a good salesperson would be interested in helping his dealership make as much money as possible... not saving the customer money.

    If your dealership advertisies free internet price quotes and you refuse to provide such a service upon request, well then, that is a lie and you are being unethical with the public.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "Of course we have an internet department! The biggest volume one in nine states!"

    See, that's where I disagree with you. You may have something called an internet department, but if pricing isn't even discussed via the internet, I don't think it qualifies (just my opinion). It is simply serving as a tool for you to either get the person onthe phone, or to come in, in person to discuss pricing.

    "When people call me, I can find out what they really want. A lot of times, they have no idea"

    The same could be said for computers. A lot of people want one, but have no idea what they need. However, there are computer manufacturers that have websites that walk you through building and pricing one, and even allow you to complete the transaction (which obviously, with a car, you eventually have to show up in person to finalize paperwork that isn't needed with something like a computer).
  • cacarfiendcacarfiend Member Posts: 10
    Yea, I know exactly what I want. I've used dealers on-line "quote" systems to get the negotiations started. Lately, all I get are emails asking me what I want. When the request is for a quote on a specific car.

    I bought an 01 Subaru basically over the net. I used the same system, but the initial reponse was an actual quote. Two emails back and forth and I bought the car that night.

    If you have a website that has a quote system, and most do. Then give the customer a quote. I know some idiot is going to shop the quote. Here's an idea. Politely tell the quote shoppers to pound sand.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    With me, the mumbers naver change. I'll give you numbers, just not in writing.

    I don't know why picking up a phone is such a big deal?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    For crying out loud....

    I DO DISCUSS PRICING!!!

    I just aren't dumb enough to put the prices in writing!

    And unless I get a really stubborn customer, our method works quite well!
  • smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    It's awesome that you don't change your numbers. I just bought a new car from a salesman who didn't change his number, either.

    The problem is that most of them do change the number. I set out from my house four times last month prepared to purchase a 2006 Toyota Sienna, and each time I returned home empty-handed because the dealer's number had changed, or the van I wanted (and in one case put a deposit on) had mysteriously disappeared, etc.

    As you are so fond of saying, life is short. It's too short to make futile trips to car dealerships. Providing a written price would go a long way toward cutting through some of the "confusion" that seems to happen at dealerships, so surely you can understand why us customers would clamor for e-mailed quotes.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "I don't know why picking up a phone is such a big deal? "

    Because you are contradicting the whole point of having an internet department. You are just using the internet (which is supposed to be a new way of doing business) to lure people into the regular "old traditional" way of negotiating (which are by discussing price over the phone, or in person).
  • abraindrainerabraindrainer Member Posts: 312
    If the dealership is located more than 20 miles away, I am temped to have them fax/send me a purchase order just to make sure that the trip is not an exercise in futulity.

    ISellHondas: I think no one here is saying you personally would change the bottom line but many of your peers would and often do (NB smittynyc story). I suggest you ask some of your peers how often they tell a customer that claims they have a "great" deal elsewhere that the "other" dealership is lying or will change the deal upon arrival... I have had a lot of interent sales folks resort to insulting their own peers instead of "earning my business".

    Lastly, I have bought a couple of vehicles without ever showing up at the dealership: I had them delivered/shipped. Thus, if you are interested in these kinds of sales you should reconsider your Internet strategy. You can be assured that you would have to put things in writing before I send you even a $500 deposit!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't understand...

    You are serious about buying a new car, right?

    You send in a request for a quote. You don't put your phone number on the request for whatever reason.

    You recieve a nice e-mail from me. I ask you to give me a call so I can clarify what exactly you are looking for. I tell you in that e-mail that I will be happy to go over our pricing when you call me.

    Is that so difficult?

    I'm not trying to "lure" anyone into our store. I don't need time wasting unhappy customers. I am totally straightforward and down to earth.

    About a third of my business is to repeat and referral customers so you are going to tell me my methods are wrong?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh sure, I know there are stores that will tell a customer anything to get them to come in only to change the story.

    These people aren't my "peers" and I don't operate that way.

    On the other hand, I detest sneaky customers that pull every trick in the book with me.
  • cacarfiendcacarfiend Member Posts: 10
    I had a REALLY bad experience negotiating the price on a VW. They tried all the crap. But after five hours, my wife and I couldn't take it and we walked. I won't go into detail, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

    Now, I'm not going to take one step into a dealer without a price. The information is out there. I know what I should pay for a car. I don't want to do the song and dance.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    You seem to be repeatedly missing the point. That is, the internet customer does not want to talk to you. If they wanted to talk to you, they would have called or came into the dealership in the first place.

    If they don't fill out the free internet quote form...fine... move on. But, if they fill it out properly and let you know "exactly" what they are looking for,then you have no excuse in not giving them a quote via e-mail.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Well said.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Thanks.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Personally, four years ago, I would have been the first in line to criticize Isell's positions. I would have found it unreasonable that he doesn't give prices over e-mail and that he want to see the customer face-to-face.

    Then I "volunteered" to be fleet manager. Actually, we had several layoffs post 9-11 and had to make some reassignments. Handling the fleet seemed to be more interesting than some of the other things.

    Typical request. I get a call from the sales manager. Order me a pick-up truck. What brand? What size? What bed size? A tow package? What type of cab? The first time we went through the process, we had exchanged no less than 35 e-mails and still did not get the order correct.

    Half the time people have no idea what they want. If they know what model, do they know which options will be necessary? Not usually.

    Isell sounds like a pretty decent salesman to deal with and seems to sell a lot of cars. Why should he spend hours cultivating a relationship with some e-mailer who is not committed enough to come in to the showroom when he probably has a few hundred leads as well as a number of walk-ins that will yield more sales? I would guess that the hour spent with a live person is about ten times more productive than the anonymous person behind the screen.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I can see the need to talk by phone for price quotes. And i like the idea of documenting the numbers with written specs.

    I bought my last computer that way from the computer companies special (fleet) branch servicing only certain groupos. I talked by phone and then by emails to clear up what he offered as options and what I wanted and finalized a price then on the adjusted computer parts.

    But the initial talk told him the kind of motor, transmission, and extras I wanted in that computer. But having heard that I wanted the next to bestest generation and wanted stuff that wouldn't be outmoded in 1 year from me orally allowed him to judge which parts I'd like-motherboard, drives types, memory, video accelerator for games. I can see the same phone contact allowing the salesman to work better for the customer's benefit.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No, I'm not missing a thing. At least half the time the internet inquiry does not tell me "exactly" what the customer wants and even when they do, that information is sometimes inaccurate.

    A serious shopper will call me unless they are simply too stubborn to do so. If this is the case, they will probably end up paying more elsewhere.

    I don't chase people like this.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Thank you!

    I am not going to give a person a number to go wave in the face of another dealer. they can do the same thing with my verbal quote but at least I've had a chance to establish a bit of rapport with them on the phone.

    I love it when people tell me I'm doing things wrong. I wish they could see my numbers and percent of increase this year.

    Do I lose a few this way? Yes I do but not enough to change my methods. A lot of the hard core..'GIVE ME A QUOTE IN WRITING OR I'LL BUY ELSEWHERE" are people I probably wouldn't want in the first place.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    At least half the time the internet inquiry does not tell me "exactly" what the customer wants...

    Fine. Then send that person the, "You need to give me a call", e-mail. But, for the other half of customers that tell you "exactly" what they want, then they should get a written quote.

    If the typical Honda Ody sells for $400 over invoice, offer it at $900 over. The buyer gets no benefit shopping that price, and if he e-mails back and wants to negotiate a lower price, then you can give him the, "Give me a call, or come on in" e-mail.

    But, this whole issue is not whether it is a waste of your time to give a quote, or that people will shop your price. It's that,"GET A FREE INTERNET PRICE QUOTE" is heavily advertised in this and other internet sites.(I assume with your dealership being a participant.) So, provided the customer includes all the necessary information, then they should get a written price via e-mail. To not do so just builds mistrust among the public.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    But, for the other half of customers that tell you "exactly" what they want, then they should get a written quote.

    How many people know "exactly" what they want? Very few. <y experience is that the people who have done the research and "know what they want" require at least three questions in order to get the vehicle that they need.

    Some classics:

    1) You mean the "third row" in the Explorer is not standard?

    2) You mean that car comes with MANUAL transmission?

    3) What's the difference between A-W-D and F-W-D ... oh and what do they mean?

    4) You mean on a 30k car, floor mats are extra?

    Having ordered six new cars this month, I am SO glad that I buy used vehicles from the same dealer for the past 15 years.
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    I just love it when internet salespeople come here and complain about flaky internet customers, how their time is wasted and about their low closing ratio. In my experience it&#146;s the salespeople who are flaky, and if they are not flaky, they are liars.

    I am shopping for 06 Sienna now. Looking for a van with an option package that is usually in low supply, especially now at the end of the model year.

    Go to dealer&#146;s A web site, and found what I am looking for. Their internet special price is posted on the site; so I called them to confirm availability. The van is sold. The salesman tries to talk me into something else, and I told him I&#146;ll think about.

    Dealer B has something else in their online inventory. Call them up to check availability, and I was told they do have it in stock. I arrive there 20 minutes later. What do you know, it was sold yesterday. :mad: Then he tries to talk me into a Limited. Guess what, it&#146;s payback time for lying to me. :P I take his brand new Limited (with 12mi on the clock) for an extended test drive to my house so that my wife could drive it. Two hours later with 50 more mi on the clock, I return the van with a no thank you.

    Dealer C. I find what I am looking for on their site, click on it, and on the detail page there is &#147;make an offer&#148; button. So, I make an offer and give them my info. Five hours later the salesman calls me with &#147;What are you looking for?&#148; &#147;I am looking for the van that I clicked on and made an offer; don&#146;t you see the stock number?&#148; His reply: &#147;I get so many requests, I can&#146;t keep the straight. Let me do the tri-state search and see if I can find something like that.&#148; Of course he doesn&#146;t find anything, and now he wants me to call him back, so that he could waste some more of my time.

    I called Dealer A back to ask about a Limited, this one doesn&#146;t have the &#147;internet special&#148; price posted, instead it says &#147;call us&#148;. The salesman refuses to give me a quote over the phone, and then asks for a deposit to hold the van until Saturday. Let me see, I don&#146;t think so. Next.
  • ventureventure Member Posts: 3,166
    "To not do so just builds mistrust among the public."

    ...and we wouldn't want that, would we? ;)

    2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport

  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    I take his brand new Limited (with 12mi on the clock) for an extended test drive to my house so that my wife could drive it. Two hours later with 50 more mi on the clock

    What? You only put 50 miles on in 2 hours? You could have easily put about 160 or so in that time frame before returning it. And why only a 2 hour test drive? Heck, you could have easily run up a few hundred more miles. I literally despise sales persons who will lie just to get a customer in the showroom.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    there is probably something to be said about buying multiple cars from the same dealer over time.
    i bought 6 vehicles from the same salesman since 1990.
    last purchase, i went the internet route and got a good deal. it was kind of awkward that the guy i had dealt with for years was still there. i thought he had retired.
    i know people in service, parts, body shop.
    over the years, i have had easy deals and contentious ones too.
    to me, service is the most important in the long run.
    it is a family run dealership.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    flaky internet customers ... it’s the salespeople who are flaky

    I seriously think that generalizations like that (either way!) are quite unproductive and ask that we all avoid them.

    Thanks.

    tidester, host
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "About a third of my business is to repeat and referral customers so you are going to tell me my methods are wrong?"

    From what you say, your methods work very well for you. I am just saying they aren't methods that "true internet shoppers" look for when they try to buy a car on line.

    Some internet shoppers go this route because they aren't the geatest negotiators, so they want to do all of their shopping via email - instead of talking directly to a salesperson. A lot of people (shoppers) are more confident at negotiating when they can do it over email, instead of getting nervous and tripped up over their words while negotiating verbally.

    Other internet shoppers may go this route because they don't have a lot of time, so they just want to make an offer, and maybe do a round or 2 of emails, and then finally swing by the dealership just to do a test drive, inspection, and paperwork (again, all without having to make phone calls, or visit the dealership in person).
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    How many people know "exactly what they want?

    I knew "exactly" what I wanted, but what I got was an e-mail asking that I call the salesman, come into the dealership, or some other nonsense.

    But,according to isell, around 30-40% know "exactly" what they want. For those who know "exactly" what they want, why can't they get a price quote?

    I think the most efficient way to get an internet price quote, with the highest probability of actually getting a number, would be to go to a couple dealerships, write down models and vin #'s of cars your interested in, then e-mail these into the dealership asking for a quote. You can't get anymore "exact" than that... can you?
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Even though I tend to buy older vehicles, I have been buying most of my vehicles at a used car lot run by a Cadillac dealership in Cincinnati (even though I haven't lived in Cincinnati for 25 years). The guy has really good cars, doesn't handle problem cars, and delivers on what he says he is going to do.

    I will be the first to admit that I have NEVER gotten the "best deal" from him. In other words, I have probably left $500-800 on the table. Dounds like a lot but ... in that I buy a car every seven years, it is not much.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Say Isell gives you a price. The FIRST thing that you are going to do is call all the Honda dealerships within two hours and see if anyone will offer you a better deal. So you find someone 25 miles away that saves you $100.

    You go out there and of course, the car is exactly like the one Isell has in his lot. But the price is cheaper and you have invested a couple of hours to run out there ... And because Isell has given you the price, you are actually LESS likely to buy from him.

    And all that is assuming that you are a real buyer. One of my co-workers was really impressed how much his 12 year old knew about performance luxury cars. Then he found out that his son was e-mailing every dealer f that make in the country for quotes!
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "But,according to isell, around 30-40% know "exactly" what they want. For those who know "exactly" what they want, why can't they get a price quote?"

    Well, I haven't run across many salesmen (and I am sure Isell is not in this group) that could honestly "help me figure out" what I truly need when it comes to purchasing a car.

    When I visited my local Honda dealer in March, the salesman couldn't tell me if you could get an EX CR-V in 2wd (the Honda website only showed 4wd as an option for the EX model). Then, he showed me an Element, and had no clue that the rear seats could be stowed up against the inside rear windows, or that they could be removed. Luckily, I had been at the International Auto Show a few months prior, and had seen a demonstration performed by a Honda rep. With that said, I ended up buying from him anyways, and did give him perfect scores on the CSI, because he and the dealership were very straight forward when it came time to actually do the deal. I even tried to send a referral to him last month, but found out he was no longer employed there.

    I think there are a fair amount of internet customers that have researched the heck out of the car they want to buy (over the internet also), and are fully capable of buying one over the internet, with no guidance from a sales person.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Jip, if you know exactly what you want and the dealer has that exact car, why not go into the sales office and make an offer?

    That's more eddicient than running home and sending a bunch of emails.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "why not go into the sales office and make an offer?

    That's more eddicient than running home and sending a bunch of emails"

    No it's not. If your offer is refused, you have wasted the time and gas it has taken to drive there, make the offer, and to drive home. If my email offer is refused, the time wasted is much less.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    You're missing my point, which is, that if a dealership advertises free internet price quotes, then the salesman should provide one when all necessary information is provided. To not do so builds mistrust amoungst the public, which the auto sales industry does not need.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Agree, most internet shoppers have researched and know exactly what they want. It's the guy off the street that "may" need some guidance.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Jip, if you know exactly what you want.... why not...

    Oh, I would go into the sales office and negotiate a price on a vehicle which was exactly what I wanted. That's because to me the negotiation and car buying experience is fun and enjoyable.

    But, for those who despise negotiation and the car buying experience, the method I indicated may be an easier way to get an actual quote. It would also show the dealership you are a serious buyer as you have already been on their lot.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    I find it odd that some people would rather shop via e-mail on a major purchase becasue they do not have the "time" to go to the dealer. Do those same people shop or purchase homes via e-mail also?
  • smittynycsmittynyc Member Posts: 289
    I'll be charitable and say you're comparing apples to oranges here. Cars are an appliance. Homes don't lose 30% of their value the minute you move in. You know, little differences like that.
This discussion has been closed.