IMHO: there is not enough competition in NW for most brands. Aside from Portland and Seattle, there are not too many places that a consumer can go to buy a vehicle. Some might be crazy enought to go to CA but that is not within driving distance. The only places in the US that are probably worse are Hawaii and Alaska. On the flip side: how many Honda dealerships are there within 4 hours of let's say NY and between Boston and DC?
Yes, some people are crazy and stupid but there is also a lack of pricing consistencies between different regions. For example. Cut $2-3k off the price and spend $500 to $1000 to ship the vehicle... that makes a lot more sense/cents.
I agree a lot of folks are "penny wise, pound foolish"!
my hubby and i drove 4 hours one way to buy a used 2005 saab 9-2x with 13k miles for about $3k less than we could find it anywhere else. of course, the finance guy tried to hide all kinds of crap in the payment...i called him out on it, telling him he must have left something in the back end, because with the rate he gave us, and the taxes, and the fees, our payments were off nearly 14 bucks a month! boy, did he turn bright red when i caught him on that one!
he didn't seem to understand when i told him i sold cars before. when i told him i called the guy who used to be my manager to run the numbers for me, and i told him i had done that, he said - well his system is probably different than ours. he's in MA, were in NY. i said - i gave him the same numbers you gave me. what difference does it make WHERE he is calculating the numbers?!
we spent a little more time than we would have liked there, but we love the car, and saved a bit of money.
that, and the 9-2x is not exactly a car you see on every street corner...
Ehh I meant to say four hours to buy a NEW car. I can understand going pretty far away to buy a used car since sometimes I can be hard to find the right color or options you are looking for.
I have sold used cars all over the place. Just off the top of my head...
FL OH ME NV TX MD VA
and then of course all over New England and the rest of the North East.
picked up a woman and her friend at bradley who flew in from Missouri to buy a subaru baja turbo that we had in stock.
sold another guy a blue subaru outback wagon. when i asked why he called us (from Seattle!!!) when its not really THAT rare a car, he said that everyone out there was white, and he wanted blue. i said "we're the closest dealer with a BLUE one?!
also shipped a red camaro out to IN or IL, cant remember. and had some guy fly up from the carolinas i believe for a two door black chevy tahoe.
but you're right...4 hours for a new car is a little wacky! but hey, i guess if you can save the $$$ and its worth it (and you like to drive) more power to you! i guess...maybe...
How far someone is willing to drive is a function of the $$$ saved. It is basic math: 4 hour train ride or 4 drive in a one way rental or 1 hour flight plus 4 hours to drive it back will certainly waste at least 3/4 of one's day. So if that means $1k in savings it is probably worth it for most folks. How many folks make $1k a day after taxes? Rover, do you make a quarter million a year? After taxes? On the flip side, for $100 many folks would not drive across town.
Of course, you may also be able to have it shipped and that will run under $1k to ship it across the country. FYI it is typically much cheaper to ship West to East: that can run under $500 during the winter months. Some dealerships will gladly deliver for about $1 a mile.
If people didn't care so much about color, you would still be selling cars in that horrible dark plum.
Of course, that was back in 1999, when Honda Accords came in white, silver, and five shades of black (dark red, dark green, dark plum, dark blue, and, of course, dark black).
I can't believe it still amazes you after all these years. What is there not to get? If your spending tens of thosands of dollars on something you are going to look at every day for years, it better be a colour you at least don't find unpleasant.
That's pretty much our response, but5 many internet shoppers don't like that because their whole point is to get a price without setting a foot into the dealership.
I'm speaking from the point of view of somebody who prefers to buy things over the Internet (i.e., I'm not a typical car dealership customer). I'm ready to order a car directly from the manufacturer (at a reduced cost) if they dare to provide online services.
You're right that you'll not likely to see an online shopper setting foot into the dealership because (1) we only go there when we believe we've received a "really good" price. (2) when we go there we just want to quickly close the deal at the "really good" price. We don't want to play games.
If you (and everybody else in your dealership) can convey to potential online customers these two main guarantees, we'll be in your dealership in no time. So the challenge is to provide a hard to ignore offer and to stick with it. Even if somebody is not so serious about buying, he can get the word out to somebody who's ready to pay.
Just try to order something from Amazon.com or Dell.com or similar sites and compare that experience with buying a car from the dealership. The day, that you can make buying a car for some people like me as easy (and hassle free) as buying a book, TV, etc. from Amazon.com, is the day you'll see more online customers.
"when people would tell me why they picked me over someone else, it was because i spelled everything out up front. i would break down the options on the car they were interested in, msrp, invoice, our discount, any rebates, and the final price. i would do my best to respond to EVERY email that came in within a half hour if possible. I never used canned responses, and typed everything out for each email. If you're sincere, open, honest, and timely in your reponse, i think you'll do fine."
You sound like all the ISM's I have ever talked to. Glad to see there are others. Keep up the good work
True- some people can be fanatical when it comes to color- surely that is one side of the spectrum.
However, for the most part, I would proffer that most people are picky about color for varying reasons- some colors stay "cleaner", in warmer climates- dark colors retain more heat, exclusivity of color in a particular region, mid-life crisis.....
I am beginning to shop for a gray Odyssey EXL with NAV and DVD. Yesterday I called a few dealers to test the waters and see what the availability is. I came across a salesman who has one in stock. He asked me when I can stop by to take a look at it. I told him that my lease return will be inspected on Monday and I will be able to buy one after that, and I also asked him for a quote. He calls me ten minutes later and tells me that the van starts at 35990 (500 over MSRP). Shocked at his so called quote, I told him that I’ll think about it. Then the arrogantly tells me: “So, I’ll see you on Monday at 6:30!”
This guy just went down to the bottom of the list of dealers I am willing to deal with. This guy is arrogant and pushy. If he has you know what to quote over MSRP to someone that he knows is shopping for quotes over the phone and he still quotes over MSRP, I know he will be a pain to deal with and I am not going to waste my and my wife’s time going to his store.
Just like salespeople pre-qualify potential customers, customers pre-qualify salespeople. If I find the salesman to be pushy, evasive or just plain lying I don’t want to deal with that person.
This may be true however at the end of the day you will have to go to the dealership to purchase the car and by then salespeople attitudes and the price of the car can change from what was presented before (internet, telephone or in person)
Exbo, I recently saw a story about some people who had an Odyssey with 'run flat' tires.
The tires only lasted 30K miles and they were very expensive to replace. The tires cost about twice as much as regular tires and they were difficult to mount.
If the dealer had a special machine, the labor charge was $100 to mount each tire. Otherwise, the customer had to buy new wheels as well.
We are all different. For me, color is pretty far down the list. If there are 8 colors available, probably four of them would be acceptable to me.
For others it is by far, the MOST important factor! I have seen people buy a model of car they didn't even want, simply because of the stupid color and that is what I don't understand. It's just a car for crying out loud.
For me the car is the most important factor. Having decided that I am usually only left with a choice of one (two if I'm lucky) colours that I find acceptable. I find that over the years I have bought a lot of silver coloured cars, not because I like silver particularly, but because I couldn't live with the others. So, yes, I'm pretty fussy about the colour, but the car I want is much more important.
One thing that does annoy me is that I tend to buy vehicles at the lower end of the price spectrum and I usually find more attractive colours on the pricier cars. I'm resigned to it, it's never going to be any different and those "expensive" colours do tend to trickle down to cheaper models eventually.
This may be true however at the end of the day you will have to go to the dealership to purchase the car and by then salespeople attitudes and the price of the car can change from what was presented before (internet, telephone or in person)
I have had people buy more expensive cars that they really didn't need or want, simply because the color they wanted wasn't available in the lower model.
Isell, especially with Hondas (as I am sure you know), the problem is few choices and fewer interior/exterior colo(u)r combinations - and some choices are just not practical for certain lifestyles, climates, etc, as was mentioned above. For example, I was really interested in a (no-sale) dark green Accord when the last generation came out, but that only came paired up with a completely impractical (for me) beige interior. The truly good looking and practical charcoal/black interior is/was available only with the anonymous, and harder to touch up, silver paint. So it is just that the matter of likes and wants, it is also a matter of practicality and constraints.
tidester, I am missing your point, unless it was tongue-in-cheek. How is it that he is ready to deal when he gives me a quote over MSRP and then tells me what time I should be there without even asking me if it’s convenient for me? As far as I can see, he is aggressive, take control type of salesperson that I don’t want to deal with.
I may be offbase but that was my read on the matter.
He gave you a price. You expressed "shock" at the offer and he "invited" you to come back. That tells me that either you weren't convincing in your expression of shock or that the salesperson believed an accommodation could be reached, i.e., he was ready to negotiate.
Whether he was agressive, take-control, overbearing, boorish, obnoxious or whatever is a separate issue.
"he is aggressive, take control type of salesperson that I don’t want to deal with."
But Exbo, those kind of sales people are the most enjoyable to deal with because it is fun to see them get so upset when they can't control buyers like us.
Actually, to be perfectly honest with you, I would have probably enjoyed putting that guy in his place, but unfortunately I have to go there with my wife, and she keeps me on a short leash. She doesn’t like it when negotiations get aggressive, and she gently kicks me under the table when I do, to let me know that I am crossing the line. I wish she would kick the salesman instead. :P This is primary reason why I prefer to pre-negotiate the price before I go to the dealer.
There was some development today. The SM called me today to get some more information. I told him that I was turned off by the salesman, and he told me not to worry about the salesman and that I’ll be dealing with him instead. I told him that I am an internet shopper and that I will be collecting quotes to determine what the fair price is. He told me that he will not let my deal go and that I should give him a call when I complete my research, but he refused to give me a quote himself. :confuse: Unfortunately, I seem to remember a news story on that dealer that they use an arbitration agreement and that somebody got screwed somehow because of it. Bobst, this is Sheehy Honda in Alexandria, have you ever dealt with them?
Hmmmm... I hate dealing with people that won't give me a price but I'm usually there when the subject comes up rather than on the phone. I've done a fair piece of research ahead of time so I know the market. If the dealer wants to price himself in the market I am easy to deal with. If he clearly doesn't I'm even easier to deal with because I'm gone.
Funny thing about Honda and colors and actually their method of packaging things. Generally I like dealing with Hondas because you don't have the insanity of "in order to get option A you must have get option B and delete C." On the other hand you get some funny choices. I have a 2000 Accord that I bought new in December of 1999. I wanted a stick shift and a sunroof. This meant I had to get an EX because that was the only model that offered both. OK, I can live with that. However, now I was out if I wanted red because the EX did not offer red. I gave the dealer a list of colors in order of preference. I came up at the bottom of the list with the dark green with an ivory interior. It's nice but the opposite of what I like in that both the exterior and interior are high maintenance colors. Give me a silver one with grey interior. You could haul a dog through mud and no one would notice the difference.....
My Ody is that combo. Not stunning but never really bad looking. Of course I fell into Hondaese on that, too. I bought an LX thinking I'd put roof rails on afterward. Well, it's got 114K on it now and they would have come in handy at times but I don't imagine I'm putting them on now! The EX had them but threw in power sliders and a bunch of things I didn't care about.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I stopped at Mount Vernon Honda, south of the beltway on Route 1, when we were buying a car in 1995. They didn't accept my offer, so I left. Did it turn into Sheehy since then?
We bought our 1999 Accord at Landmark Honda, the site of the famous Key Story. We also bought two cars at Tysons Honda (95 and 97) and one at Fairfax in 2005. All of the Rosenthal stores seem very professional. The F&I is very smooth and they are very polite when they try to sell us options.
I had forgotten that you lived in Northern Virginia. The story about the 'run flat' tires was in the 'Click and Clack' column last Sunday in the Wash Post.
Personally, I prefer dealing over in MD where the law is a bit more "liberal" and fees are limited to $100. Given my Honda search a few years ago, the differences were significant before the fees. Of course, that may not matter if you are using the "bobst" method...
I live in Virginia but have purchased my last two cars in Maryland. They are much easier to deal with and they make in the end a better deal up-front. As for the car color, well I always get the one I want. If I have to wait for it to show up I do but with all the nice inventory search tools you can find it yourself and then deal with who has it or your local guy if you want because he will find it also for you.
Just got a 07 Lincoln MKZ at Invoice and a Infinity FX35 at 500 over invoice. I could have gotten it at invoice if I drove 80 miles to another dealership. All of the dealing was done via email.
So do you not test drive the car before you buy it? CAuse you do have to go somehwere to test drive it.
Yes, test driving has to take place somewhere in a dealership, in a friend's car, or a test driving center.
I was thinking if car manufacturers dare to sale online, they have to setup some kind of test driving center that is just for test driving. People may look, seat in a car for free, but they may have to pay a minimal fee to test drive.
Manufacturers won't set up driving centres because they have dealers for that. To set up a centre with cars and staff would cost them money. They leave that up to the dealers.
"Generally I like dealing with Hondas because you don't have the insanity of "in order to get option A you must have get option B and delete C." On the other hand you get some funny choices."
We ran into this when we bought my wife's Element last year. We live in an area that gets snow once every 2 to 3 years, so I could care less about 4wd. This was also to serve as her commuter vehicle, and the 2wd model did claim to get slightly better gas mileage. However, she really wanted the sunroof (even though it's in the back of the vehicle), and in order to get the sunroof in the Element, you had to get the 4wd option...so we bought a 4wd.
Maybe in the longrun, the 4wd will help resale...I'm not sure.
I would be happy to pay a few bucks per a test drive as long I as I could shop the car and options like a Dell computer or other electronics and have it delivered to my door: I am already paying for "destination"...
"Otherwise you have just basically spend $2-3k for that sunroof... "
Nah - there actually wasn't a $2-$3k swing in price between 2wd and 4wd on the Element at the time (based off of MSRP anyways). If I recall correctly, it was closer to a $1,400 difference on MSRP between the 2wd and 4wd. Not exactly chump change, but not enough for me to worry about since we will have to live with the car for a few years, and at least we won't regret not having the sunroof.
A lot of the time (at least for me) price of the car itself does not represent the whole picture that I need to see. When I get the quote, dealers are often provide you only with the price of the car (destination included), but I think if dealers would be able to give you OTD price in their quote - that would be much more helpful. Various fees that dealers charge may increase the price substantially. Taxes are need to be disclosed (I live in NJ and I'm buying a car in NJ so dealer should able to give me a total amount of taxes I need to pay). Registration price should be disclosed also. I know I can get taxes information and registration amount myself, but it would be much easier for me to see the whole picture on the spot. In fact that how I bought my last car. Dealer disclosed everything.(and I mean everything). I got other dealers that provided me with their quotes also, but the did not listed any fees their charge or their price quotes were something like - "$2000 below MSRP". In the end there could be a possibility that their total prices might be lower, but I did not want to deal with this an wasting my time to take a chance. So I bought a car from the dealership that gave me a total price breakdown. In fact all that information was given over the phone, since I called every dealership that I was asking for a quote instead of emailing them. For some reason some dealerships were reluctant to provide me a total price breakdown over the phone even after asking them numerous times during our phone conversations. I do not understand that, since I did not asked them for something in writing. The answers were something like " We have very low Doc Fees and not much else".."Taxes and registration is charged by the state and we have no control over it"... I'm giving you a great price with is $2000 below MSRP" and so on. The problem is with the whole thing is that there is a lot of confusion for consumers, so being straightforward and honest, those the qualities that earned my business for that dealership and not because they had the lowest possible price.
That is why I only ask about price compared to Invoice. That is where I start. I have been surprised that both times when I asked for Invoice pricing I got it. Made me wonder if I could have asked and received below invoice pricing! For some reason I actually think you shock them to have the nerve to ask for invoice pricing right off the bat. Or as I always suspect they still made money off me.
Actually, invoice pricing is increasingly less relavant because so many other incentives are in play for mainstream manufacturers. This trend is less so for higher priced brands, but we are seeing more of that there too. Look at some lofty incentive levels on some Volvo and Mercendes models!
I agree and have no issue with dealers making profit. I just think it should be listed on how much they are making at least one level. I know they make other monies.
Well yes I guess. I think most people think that anything above invoice is profit for them and that 500-1000 is enough. I know there is an array of incentives and other deals that we the consumer do not know anything about.
i can see your point, and having been on both sides of the desk, i understand that you don't want to overspend on your purchase. however, here is the point that i'd like to make on this...invoice is what the dealer pays out when the car comes in from the mfgr. when the car is sold, the dealer gets the holdback from the mfgr, usually an amount that ranges from $200-$900 on average. If the mfgr chooses to also give the dealer additional bonus money for selling the car, that is their business. That money is not coming out of your pocket. I don't understand why people insist on backing into that money thinking that is their right to take that too.
i will agree with many people here though that the "we're not making any money on this deal" line is obnoxious and annoying. the salesperson may not make any money on that deal however, and that is a fair statement for them to make. to give you an example of how the commissions pay out (at least at the store i worked at) I would get paid 20% of the gross sale of the car over invoice, or a mini of $100. meaning, if i sold a car with an MSRP of 20000 and an invoice of $19000 for MSRP, then I'd make $200 on that deal. If i wanted to make anything more than $100, i would have to sell for at least $500 over invoice...which is very hard these days on most new cars.
I don't mean to make this drawn out, but I'd at least like consumers to get the bigger picture of what goes on. I am not saying all dealers are good, or anything of the sort. I just think some of these things should be kept in mind...
Comments
Yes, some people are crazy and stupid but there is also a lack of pricing consistencies between different regions. For example. Cut $2-3k off the price and spend $500 to $1000 to ship the vehicle... that makes a lot more sense/cents.
I agree a lot of folks are "penny wise, pound foolish"!
he didn't seem to understand when i told him i sold cars before. when i told him i called the guy who used to be my manager to run the numbers for me, and i told him i had done that, he said - well his system is probably different than ours. he's in MA, were in NY. i said - i gave him the same numbers you gave me. what difference does it make WHERE he is calculating the numbers?!
we spent a little more time than we would have liked there, but we love the car, and saved a bit of money.
that, and the 9-2x is not exactly a car you see on every street corner...
anyways, sorry so long winded...
thene
I have sold used cars all over the place. Just off the top of my head...
FL
OH
ME
NV
TX
MD
VA
and then of course all over New England and the rest of the North East.
picked up a woman and her friend at bradley who flew in from Missouri to buy a subaru baja turbo that we had in stock.
sold another guy a blue subaru outback wagon. when i asked why he called us (from Seattle!!!) when its not really THAT rare a car, he said that everyone out there was white, and he wanted blue. i said "we're the closest dealer with a BLUE one?!
also shipped a red camaro out to IN or IL, cant remember. and had some guy fly up from the carolinas i believe for a two door black chevy tahoe.
but you're right...4 hours for a new car is a little wacky! but hey, i guess if you can save the $$$ and its worth it (and you like to drive) more power to you! i guess...maybe...
-thene
Of course, you may also be able to have it shipped and that will run under $1k to ship it across the country. FYI it is typically much cheaper to ship West to East: that can run under $500 during the winter months. Some dealerships will gladly deliver for about $1 a mile.
Of course, that was back in 1999, when Honda Accords came in white, silver, and five shades of black (dark red, dark green, dark plum, dark blue, and, of course, dark black).
I'm speaking from the point of view of somebody who prefers to buy things over the Internet (i.e., I'm not a typical car dealership customer). I'm ready to order a car directly from the manufacturer (at a reduced cost) if they dare to provide online services.
You're right that you'll not likely to see an online shopper setting foot into the dealership because
(1) we only go there when we believe we've received a "really good" price.
(2) when we go there we just want to quickly close the deal at the "really good" price. We don't want to play games.
If you (and everybody else in your dealership) can convey to potential online customers these two main guarantees, we'll be in your dealership in no time. So the challenge is to provide a hard to ignore offer and to stick with it. Even if somebody is not so serious about buying, he can get the word out to somebody who's ready to pay.
Just try to order something from Amazon.com or Dell.com or similar sites and compare that experience with buying a car from the dealership. The day, that you can make buying a car for some people like me as easy (and hassle free) as buying a book, TV, etc. from Amazon.com, is the day you'll see more online customers.
You sound like all the ISM's I have ever talked to. Glad to see there are others. Keep up the good work
However, for the most part, I would proffer that most people are picky about color for varying reasons- some colors stay "cleaner", in warmer climates- dark colors retain more heat, exclusivity of color in a particular region, mid-life crisis.....
but thank you anyways
-thene
I am beginning to shop for a gray Odyssey EXL with NAV and DVD. Yesterday I called a few dealers to test the waters and see what the availability is. I came across a salesman who has one in stock. He asked me when I can stop by to take a look at it. I told him that my lease return will be inspected on Monday and I will be able to buy one after that, and I also asked him for a quote. He calls me ten minutes later and tells me that the van starts at 35990 (500 over MSRP). Shocked at his so called quote, I told him that I’ll think about it. Then the arrogantly tells me: “So, I’ll see you on Monday at 6:30!”
This guy just went down to the bottom of the list of dealers I am willing to deal with. This guy is arrogant and pushy. If he has you know what to quote over MSRP to someone that he knows is shopping for quotes over the phone and he still quotes over MSRP, I know he will be a pain to deal with and I am not going to waste my and my wife’s time going to his store.
Just like salespeople pre-qualify potential customers, customers pre-qualify salespeople. If I find the salesman to be pushy, evasive or just plain lying I don’t want to deal with that person.
The tires only lasted 30K miles and they were very expensive to replace. The tires cost about twice as much as regular tires and they were difficult to mount.
If the dealer had a special machine, the labor charge was $100 to mount each tire. Otherwise, the customer had to buy new wheels as well.
For others it is by far, the MOST important factor! I have seen people buy a model of car they didn't even want, simply because of the stupid color and that is what I don't understand. It's just a car for crying out loud.
One thing that does annoy me is that I tend to buy vehicles at the lower end of the price spectrum and I usually find more attractive colours on the pricier cars. I'm resigned to it, it's never going to be any different and those "expensive" colours do tend to trickle down to cheaper models eventually.
I have had people buy more expensive cars that they really didn't need or want, simply because the color they wanted wasn't available in the lower model.
That's the part that amazes me!
But, that's me...
That sounds to me like a clear indication the salesperson is ready, willing and able to negotiate.
tidester, host
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
He gave you a price. You expressed "shock" at the offer and he "invited" you to come back. That tells me that either you weren't convincing in your expression of shock or that the salesperson believed an accommodation could be reached, i.e., he was ready to negotiate.
Whether he was agressive, take-control, overbearing, boorish, obnoxious or whatever is a separate issue.
tidester, host
But Exbo, those kind of sales people are the most enjoyable to deal with because it is fun to see them get so upset when they can't control buyers like us.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually, to be perfectly honest with you, I would have probably enjoyed putting that guy in his place, but unfortunately I have to go there with my wife, and she keeps me on a short leash. She doesn’t like it when negotiations get aggressive, and she gently kicks me under the table when I do, to let me know that I am crossing the line. I wish she would kick the salesman instead. :P This is primary reason why I prefer to pre-negotiate the price before I go to the dealer.
There was some development today. The SM called me today to get some more information. I told him that I was turned off by the salesman, and he told me not to worry about the salesman and that I’ll be dealing with him instead. I told him that I am an internet shopper and that I will be collecting quotes to determine what the fair price is. He told me that he will not let my deal go and that I should give him a call when I complete my research, but he refused to give me a quote himself. :confuse: Unfortunately, I seem to remember a news story on that dealer that they use an arbitration agreement and that somebody got screwed somehow because of it. Bobst, this is Sheehy Honda in Alexandria, have you ever dealt with them?
Funny thing about Honda and colors and actually their method of packaging things. Generally I like dealing with Hondas because you don't have the insanity of "in order to get option A you must have get option B and delete C." On the other hand you get some funny choices. I have a 2000 Accord that I bought new in December of 1999. I wanted a stick shift and a sunroof. This meant I had to get an EX because that was the only model that offered both. OK, I can live with that. However, now I was out if I wanted red because the EX did not offer red. I gave the dealer a list of colors in order of preference. I came up at the bottom of the list with the dark green with an ivory interior. It's nice but the opposite of what I like in that both the exterior and interior are high maintenance colors. Give me a silver one with grey interior. You could haul a dog through mud and no one would notice the difference.....
My Ody is that combo. Not stunning but never really bad looking. Of course I fell into Hondaese on that, too. I bought an LX thinking I'd put roof rails on afterward. Well, it's got 114K on it now and they would have come in handy at times but I don't imagine I'm putting them on now! The EX had them but threw in power sliders and a bunch of things I didn't care about.
I stopped at Mount Vernon Honda, south of the beltway on Route 1, when we were buying a car in 1995. They didn't accept my offer, so I left. Did it turn into Sheehy since then?
We bought our 1999 Accord at Landmark Honda, the site of the famous Key Story. We also bought two cars at Tysons Honda (95 and 97) and one at Fairfax in 2005. All of the Rosenthal stores seem very professional. The F&I is very smooth and they are very polite when they try to sell us options.
I had forgotten that you lived in Northern Virginia. The story about the 'run flat' tires was in the 'Click and Clack' column last Sunday in the Wash Post.
Bob
Just got a 07 Lincoln MKZ at Invoice and a Infinity FX35 at 500 over invoice. I could have gotten it at invoice if I drove 80 miles to another dealership. All of the dealing was done via email.
Yes, test driving has to take place somewhere in a dealership, in a friend's car, or a test driving center.
I was thinking if car manufacturers dare to sale online, they have to setup some kind of test driving center that is just for test driving. People may look, seat in a car for free, but they may have to pay a minimal fee to test drive.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
We ran into this when we bought my wife's Element last year. We live in an area that gets snow once every 2 to 3 years, so I could care less about 4wd. This was also to serve as her commuter vehicle, and the 2wd model did claim to get slightly better gas mileage. However, she really wanted the sunroof (even though it's in the back of the vehicle), and in order to get the sunroof in the Element, you had to get the 4wd option...so we bought a 4wd.
Maybe in the longrun, the 4wd will help resale...I'm not sure.
I am sure: It will help your resale if you move (the vehicle) to Denver? :shades: Otherwise you have just basically spend $2-3k for that sunroof...
Nah - there actually wasn't a $2-$3k swing in price between 2wd and 4wd on the Element at the time (based off of MSRP anyways). If I recall correctly, it was closer to a $1,400 difference on MSRP between the 2wd and 4wd. Not exactly chump change, but not enough for me to worry about since we will have to live with the car for a few years, and at least we won't regret not having the sunroof.
Taxes are need to be disclosed (I live in NJ and I'm buying a car in NJ so dealer should able to give me a total amount of taxes I need to pay). Registration price should be disclosed also. I know I can get taxes information and registration amount myself, but it would be much easier for me to see the whole picture on the spot. In fact that how I bought my last car.
Dealer disclosed everything.(and I mean everything). I got other dealers that provided me with their quotes also, but the did not listed any fees their charge or their price quotes were something like - "$2000 below MSRP". In the end there could be a possibility that their total prices might be lower, but I did not want to deal with this an wasting my time to take a chance. So I bought a car from the dealership that gave me a total price breakdown. In fact all that information was given over the phone, since I called every dealership that I was asking for a quote instead of emailing them.
For some reason some dealerships were reluctant to provide me a total price breakdown over the phone even after asking them numerous times during our phone conversations. I do not understand that, since I did not asked them for something in writing. The answers were something like " We have very low Doc Fees and not much else".."Taxes and registration is charged by the state and we have no control over it"... I'm giving you a great price with is $2000 below MSRP" and so on.
The problem is with the whole thing is that there is a lot of confusion for consumers, so being straightforward and honest, those the qualities that earned my business for that dealership and not because they had the lowest possible price.
i will agree with many people here though that the "we're not making any money on this deal" line is obnoxious and annoying. the salesperson may not make any money on that deal however, and that is a fair statement for them to make. to give you an example of how the commissions pay out (at least at the store i worked at) I would get paid 20% of the gross sale of the car over invoice, or a mini of $100. meaning, if i sold a car with an MSRP of 20000 and an invoice of $19000 for MSRP, then I'd make $200 on that deal. If i wanted to make anything more than $100, i would have to sell for at least $500 over invoice...which is very hard these days on most new cars.
I don't mean to make this drawn out, but I'd at least like consumers to get the bigger picture of what goes on. I am not saying all dealers are good, or anything of the sort. I just think some of these things should be kept in mind...
anyways, my 2 cents...
-thene